Block 2 Jury by Kelsey Agar

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:20:19 UTC

hey- let me know that you're all in

12074988 — 2019-11-13 14:20:31 UTC

I am in.

11792711 — 2019-11-13 14:20:36 UTC

I am in

12041294 — 2019-11-13 14:20:40 UTC

wassup

12064639 — 2019-11-13 14:20:43 UTC

I'm in

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 14:20:45 UTC

Hey. Great day

9924495519 — 2019-11-13 14:20:51 UTC

IM IN

8636212 — 2019-11-13 14:20:54 UTC

Im in cap

8668512757 — 2019-11-13 14:21:13 UTC

IM IN ! 😁

12083459 — 2019-11-13 14:21:15 UTC

I'm in.

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 14:21:25 UTC

9716861 — 2019-11-13 14:21:25 UTC

Im in

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:27:39 UTC

On your chart- write down what she said and what you think she was trying to get you to think.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:27:52 UTC

That was the prosecution- calling Sameh guilty of first degree

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:28:14 UTC

Remember- ethos (credibility), pathos (emotion), logos (logic)

12120488 — 2019-11-13 14:28:26 UTC

here

8409683 — 2019-11-13 14:28:28 UTC

im in

12120488 — 2019-11-13 14:28:31 UTC

here

1765447186 — 2019-11-13 14:28:32 UTC

im in

1473538 — 2019-11-13 14:28:52 UTC

here

12422065 — 2019-11-13 14:29:00 UTC

I'm in

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:31:52 UTC

He's killing it- great information from the defense

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:32:10 UTC

I would be jotting down good points as he talks in your notes.

8409683 — 2019-11-13 14:33:49 UTC

🤔

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:36:59 UTC

What was the point of that line of questioning for Ilse?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:37:37 UTC

...

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:38:35 UTC

Heyooo anyone home?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:38:51 UTC

Mrs. Bustle is asking you some questions.

12074988 — 2019-11-13 14:39:25 UTC

They're getting Ilse to feel empathetic towards Sameh's mother, and home life.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:39:46 UTC

Defense is saying- Was she there? Is she biased? Does she have any authority on what actually happened?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:41:52 UTC

Ilse wants justice--does that mean Sameh is guilty? Listen to prosecution to see what they say about her bias

8409683 — 2019-11-13 14:42:38 UTC

Ilse wants Sameh to be put to justice for "blowing up" her beloved son.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:43:47 UTC

Right, Covin- does that justify him being guilty just because she's sad about her son?

8409683 — 2019-11-13 14:44:13 UTC

not entirely?

12064639 — 2019-11-13 14:44:39 UTC

not really

12083459 — 2019-11-13 14:45:07 UTC

The defense forced Ilse to prove that she was biased and how she wanted justice to be served, regardless who or what did it. Making it hard for her to answer truthfully, and allowing her judgement to be changed by the accident.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:46:07 UTC

I like it Tyler

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:46:36 UTC

Was that unfair of them or a good strategy?

12083459 — 2019-11-13 14:48:38 UTC

It was a good strategy because it forces the Prosecution to change their state of mind, and force them to respond by saying that she is allowed to be upset. But in saying that, it also says that she is being unfair and untruthful.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:48:53 UTC

"as we will prove further..." now we have to listen to see if prosecution does effectively prove

8409683 — 2019-11-13 14:49:41 UTC

Dan the army man

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:51:05 UTC

So far do the characters seem to sound reliable?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:51:31 UTC

Mom hasn't seen Sameh for a week

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:52:23 UTC

That's not true- he's never heard of Sameh? He just admitted he searched his house

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:52:25 UTC

Has dan really never heard of Sameh?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:52:31 UTC

Does that make him reliable?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:52:41 UTC

ayyyyy --- great minds think alike <3

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:55:16 UTC

Defense did a good job- He wasn't there, he didn't see Sameh, he might be biased because Sameh's Palestinian and because Vera was injured.

12083459 — 2019-11-13 14:55:29 UTC

If dan has never "heard" of him, there is no way to prove he knew he was they one who caused the explosion. He is biased because of his girlfriend, and he will give unreliable answers. Dan will try everything in his power to get justice for his girlfriend, even if it takes him lying to do it.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:56:54 UTC

Y'all. Don't let Tyler talk to himself. Respond. He's saying great things! What are y'all's thoughts?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 14:57:11 UTC

Prosecution- Dan should be helping them, but Dan's kind of hurting himself right now. Does he look reliable?

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 14:57:39 UTC

No, not really.

8409683 — 2019-11-13 14:58:03 UTC

*cricket* *cricket*

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:58:15 UTC

Make sure you are putting notes in your witness box about Dan's reliability.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 14:58:40 UTC

What about his behavior/answers were or were not reliable?

12074988 — 2019-11-13 14:58:47 UTC

Obviously if you have an "obligation" to protect people, you are going to have a bias. I feel like when he said that he had never even heard of Sameh, he lost me. He had rushed into his house hours prior to the bombing.

12083459 — 2019-11-13 14:59:31 UTC

Dan is being untruthful because he is very biased, and his only want is to get justice for his girlfriend. He will do anything to get revenge for what was done, no matter who the blame is put on.

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:00:38 UTC

Prosecution did do a good job of pulling statements from Defense's opening statement and turning it into something they can use for further convincing.

1765447186 — 2019-11-13 15:01:00 UTC

i agree to what tyler is saying, Dan will proably be biased because he was in love with vera and dosen't want her hurt. he wants justice

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:02:38 UTC

Vera seems like she's being honest

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:03:16 UTC

They aren't able to prove that Sameh did it, they are only proving that the bombing did happen.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:03:16 UTC

Agreed, Josh: they didn't say much with her yet- we'll have to listen to more once prosecution comes back to cross-examine

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:03:50 UTC

Not really proving anything about Sameh being guilty or not when talking about Vera's injuries.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 15:03:51 UTC

interesting -- what does "negative mental state" imply for the defense?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 15:04:04 UTC

What are they trying to prove here?

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:04:26 UTC

She has a negative mental state, which could influence what she would think of Sameh.

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:04:44 UTC

Proving that she has a negative state of mind proves she is also biased due to her injuries.

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:05:01 UTC

true

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:06:27 UTC

wouldn't she already have a negative perspective of Sameh just because people are pointing fingers at him even though they don't completely know if he even triggered the bomb?

12064639 — 2019-11-13 15:06:48 UTC

Yes, but since she's stated so, they can use it against her later

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:07:53 UTC

They see him as the bad guy because they are they only one they see that could've done it. They watched Sameh on the bus, but never seen Omar outside of the bus, so she can only say that Sameh could've done it.

12064639 — 2019-11-13 15:08:13 UTC

Agreed

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:08:28 UTC

Defense just asked great quesitons

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:08:32 UTC

questions**

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:09:06 UTC

right, Sameh saw Omar in the van.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:10:24 UTC

we technically haven't heard that in trial yet- be careful that we stick to only the things they have said out loud

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:12:41 UTC

It never states that Sameh didn't get on the bus as a connecting bus ride to get to his house. They assume that he had never went, even though they have no proof he has never been there.

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:13:54 UTC

Thomas had head trauma, so would that influece what he would think?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-13 15:14:58 UTC

Did Thomas actually find out answers about his grandfather?

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:15:22 UTC

His head trauma would cause him to think against Sameh, and try to prove it was him. He would be more truthful it he wasn't it the accident.

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:16:38 UTC

Good point

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:16:47 UTC

How would he find information about his Grandfather in Israel? What could he find there?

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:17:26 UTC

He was planning to go to the museum to find info

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:17:41 UTC

What was the point in emphasizing the backpack check?

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:17:51 UTC

Not necessarily, no. If anything, Ilse and Thomas had only found out about Baruch's involvement, not necessarily Opa Hans', pertaining to the Holocaust.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:17:55 UTC

The defense is trying to prove what to you...? and did they do it?

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:19:20 UTC

The prosecution was trying to prove that backpack check is NOT routine, so there could have been a bomb. Thomas voluntarily opened his bag for the bus driver.

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:20:48 UTC

yep

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:20:48 UTC

Wouldn't Thomas have seen Sameh get pushed up into the window?

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:20:55 UTC

Proving that he didn't have to open his backpack, could mean different things. It could mean the bus driver was in on it, considering it is his 2nd bus bombing, or it could mean the bus driver trusted Sameh because he has been on the bus before.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:21:28 UTC

Which would make us believe that Sameh is a regular and that the bus driver saw nothing suspicious

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:21:40 UTC

I don't think the bus driver knew Sameh

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:22:07 UTC

How did Thomas "not see anything" after Sameh got on the bus? If he was in the front, and Sameh was pushed up against the door, at least I would assume he would've seen something.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:22:07 UTC

So everybody else on that bus was going to the kibbutz?

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:22:49 UTC

Tyler's theory was something I also thought of towards the end. How did the bus driver survive TWO bus bombings? How did he happen to survive both of them?

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:22:50 UTC

i dont think anyone knew each other besides thomas and vera and Sameh recognizing Omar

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:23:06 UTC

There was too many people on the bus to prove everyone was going to the Kibbutz. It did state that there was a mother and a baby on the bus. Why would a baby go to the Kibbutz?

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:23:09 UTC

DId the book mentioned any other location after the Kibbutz

12041294 — 2019-11-13 15:23:23 UTC

sameh

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:23:47 UTC

That the bus was going to

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:24:07 UTC

💥

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:24:11 UTC

boom

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:24:20 UTC

The question is not "did the book say" but "did they say"---we are focusing on the info that they are actually providing

9716861 — 2019-11-13 15:24:21 UTC

why would he get on a bus thats going no where he needs to go???

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:24:28 UTC

Also by that logic, does that mean everyone else on the bus was planning to go to the Kibbutz?

8409683 — 2019-11-13 15:24:34 UTC

f in the chat yall

9716861 — 2019-11-13 15:24:40 UTC

11792711 — 2019-11-13 15:24:52 UTC

Wasn't the bus going to Jerusalem?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:25:04 UTC

Please don't waste our time

12074988 — 2019-11-13 15:26:40 UTC

Of course not all of the people on the bus are necessarily going to the Kibbutz, which is also another thing that can help prove how Sameh got on the bus without having to be checked or asked where he was going.

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:27:32 UTC

That could mean that the last point that the prosecution introduced is obsolete

11792711 — 2019-11-13 15:28:13 UTC

Why would a mother and her baby be going to the Kibbutz?

9924495519 — 2019-11-13 15:28:39 UTC

Maybe the mom is jewish

rachelbustle — 2019-11-13 15:28:56 UTC

It tells us it's an Arabic woman

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:28:58 UTC

We can't just assume that

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:29:28 UTC

So that means teh bus had to be going somewhere else as well

11792711 — 2019-11-13 15:29:34 UTC

So if she's Arabic, why would she be going to the Kibbutz with her kid?

12083459 — 2019-11-13 15:30:11 UTC

In the book, it says the bus was heading to Jerusalem.

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:30:15 UTC

The kibbutz can not be the last stop for the bus

12064639 — 2019-11-13 15:36:31 UTC

Yeah, it never said it was going only to the kibbutz. It was coming from the airport. I'm sure they don't have a bus just for the kibbutz. And how would Sameh know it's a kibbutz bus, if it was only for the kibbutz?

4417274568 — 2019-11-13 15:37:41 UTC

That would meant that the bus had to go to other places, which would mean that the argument of Sameh having no reason to be on the bus is obsolete.

12064639 — 2019-11-13 15:38:28 UTC

Exactly.

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 14:44:32 UTC

hey

12120488 — 2019-11-14 14:47:53 UTC

8409683 — 2019-11-14 14:50:10 UTC

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 14:50:24 UTC

Hey y'all

12064639 — 2019-11-14 14:51:01 UTC

hey

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 14:51:22 UTC

yall ready for day two?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 14:51:28 UTC

LETS GOOOOOO

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 14:52:47 UTC

Lidia Adler

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 14:54:05 UTC

The Defense is doing a good job "warming up" the witness and being friendly with them

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 14:55:21 UTC

So far they're just asking for info

8409683 — 2019-11-14 14:56:53 UTC

They are mostly talking about Vera's injuries...

9716861 — 2019-11-14 14:58:03 UTC

How does this help trying to prove sameh is not guilty???

12064639 — 2019-11-14 14:58:34 UTC

It doesn't. They aren't digging for what they need

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 14:58:52 UTC

They didn't really proved their point

11792711 — 2019-11-14 14:59:15 UTC

They're only trying to prove that Lidia is not a reliable witness

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 14:59:58 UTC

Yeah but half of what they asked was insignificant to what they wanted to prove

12064639 — 2019-11-14 14:59:59 UTC

Bad argument, if you can even call it that. No useful information

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:00:25 UTC

agreed

12044846 — 2019-11-14 15:00:25 UTC

They were only really talking about how Lidia was taking pictures.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:00:27 UTC

wait-- think about it for a second-- if they can prove that all witnesses are unreliable, then they create reasonable doubt. That's exactly what the defense wants.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:02:37 UTC

Did y'all get what they were saying?

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:02:41 UTC

there was barely any good information given.

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:02:52 UTC

or proof

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:02:53 UTC

not really

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:03:11 UTC

Dang the bus explosion was a good point, but the bus explosion from the back was from the gas from the bus

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:03:42 UTC

They said- Lidia, if you were able to take pictures of Vera and she was alive, hurt but alive, that should be evidence to the bomb not being on the front of the bus with Sameh . The people in the back are dead, but Lidia was still able to see her best friend because she was alive at the front of the bus

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:04:01 UTC

oh got it

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:04:06 UTC

ohh.

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:04:08 UTC

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:04:37 UTC

Somebody tell Q that he needs to put the gloves away and make sure he's taking notes

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:06:18 UTC

Prosecution did save that for themselves

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:06:23 UTC

Hopefully, you heard it

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:06:49 UTC

Nice point about Sameh's room being guarded. Saved them

12041294 — 2019-11-14 15:07:21 UTC

ight

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:08:10 UTC

Please make sure you are logged in to padlet. It should not say anonymous when you post

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:10:12 UTC

Ouch

120445811 — 2019-11-14 15:10:43 UTC

im logged in

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:10:50 UTC

says "I killed my son" with no sympathy.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:11:19 UTC

just recreate an account with your student account-- it will not say anonymous when you are logged in

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:12:21 UTC

I just did...

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:12:44 UTC

perfect. You're good Logan.

12120488 — 2019-11-14 15:12:50 UTC

how do u spell his last name

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:12:57 UTC

Ben Tov

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:13:23 UTC

Is it Ben-Tov or Ben Tov?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:13:33 UTC

Ben Tov

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:13:46 UTC

No further questions...

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:14:10 UTC

We're still waiting on them to make a point here...

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:14:45 UTC

Hmmm.... do you think that baruch is reliable based on this testimony?

8636212 — 2019-11-14 15:14:54 UTC

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:15:03 UTC

nope

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:15:04 UTC

No, mission accomplished

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:15:06 UTC

He said that his mental state is preventing him from thinking srtaight

12041294 — 2019-11-14 15:15:18 UTC

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:17:16 UTC

The prosecutor isn't proving much

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:17:40 UTC

So you have to consider here whether the prosecution makes Baruch seems more reliable

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:18:54 UTC

The prosecution doesn't seem to realize they are proving the defense's point, you can't use someone else's point to make your message seem reliable, especially when said point seems to be working against you.

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:19:00 UTC

Ok, but this still doesn't prove Sameh guilty, since he doesn't even know him

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:19:03 UTC

In your notes you need to make sure you state who has better points in why

laurelrowland — 2019-11-14 15:19:12 UTC

Police

12101113 — 2019-11-14 15:19:29 UTC

police

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:19:35 UTC

Right, Josh- think about what they are saying and decide if it means anything to the greater purpose

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:20:59 UTC

Love that he's starting with some casual conversation

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:22:05 UTC

do you have evidence to prove otherwise?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:22:09 UTC

from the text?

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:22:16 UTC

Its hard to hear what they are asking

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:22:59 UTC

They were just saying about waht was at the crime scene

120445811 — 2019-11-14 15:23:08 UTC

it is hard to hear them

12101113 — 2019-11-14 15:24:35 UTC

i can barely hear the questions

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:25:01 UTC

They are asking about the April 10th interview tape

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:25:05 UTC

good responses by the police so far

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:27:20 UTC

Ooof bad response by police they couldn't know that

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:28:40 UTC

But he was the one who brought the bomb in

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:28:59 UTC

He didn't detonate it, but still..

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:29:10 UTC

defense says: police haven't necessarily had any reason to believe that Sameh was a part of that

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:29:21 UTC

Oh.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:29:30 UTC

Be careful Josh, they haven't really proven anything about a bomb on a bus yet. Don't use your background knowledge, use what they are actually saying

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:29:36 UTC

That's the biggest challenge for the jury

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:30:10 UTC

got it

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:30:22 UTC

thats alot of boom

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:30:32 UTC

fyi that's about the size of my 3 year old

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:30:33 UTC

for real

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:30:34 UTC

thats a lot

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:30:46 UTC

35 pounds=alot in my opinion

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:30:59 UTC

thats alot of damage

9924495519 — 2019-11-14 15:31:44 UTC

I dont think a 16 year old can carry 35 pounds on his back

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:31:54 UTC

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:32:07 UTC

I think you probably could, but we would definitely notice it

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:32:09 UTC

I mean.. it can be done.

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:32:23 UTC

some do at our school

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:32:43 UTC

they would be noticeably struggling or else thats a strong 16 year old.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:32:53 UTC

interesting- do you think the prosecution just proved something to help them?

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:33:01 UTC

Wow, good point

12064639 — 2019-11-14 15:33:06 UTC

did anyone catch the last few responses from the police? I can't r

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:33:14 UTC

I want to hear what you think on this platform right now

9924495519 — 2019-11-14 15:33:27 UTC

I think it was a van bombing

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:34:20 UTC

if it was 35 pounds it could've been in the bag cause if it was a van bombing there would've been a lot more

9924495519 — 2019-11-14 15:35:15 UTC

but the thing is we dont know how strong sameh his

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:35:56 UTC

is*

laurelrowland — 2019-11-14 15:36:23 UTC

Doctors

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:36:23 UTC

This is Dr. Stitti

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:37:11 UTC

They're giving pretty solid responses

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:37:24 UTC

Covin. Unnecessary.

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:37:54 UTC

Interesting about an explosion in a closed space

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:37:54 UTC

whos covin?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:39:19 UTC

He asked if Thomas would have any permanent damage- Dr said no

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:39:21 UTC

Covin. Say relevant things or you're going to get kicked off the back channel. No one wants that.

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:40:24 UTC

Dr. are saying really relevant things

laurelrowland — 2019-11-14 15:40:50 UTC

Good answer to the last question.

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:41:04 UTC

Wait how did Omar died?

laurelrowland — 2019-11-14 15:41:28 UTC

From what we know, Omar died due to the explosion.

9924495519 — 2019-11-14 15:41:28 UTC

The doctors are being very truthful and are answering questions truthfully

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:41:41 UTC

he was in a van and the van ran into the bus and supposedly blew up

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:41:42 UTC

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:41:46 UTC

so they look reliable

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:43:41 UTC

I thought the bus driver had minor back injuries

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:43:44 UTC

So the doctor is unsure about the bus driver even coming to his hospital?

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:44:19 UTC

he wasn't even hospitalized, so Dr. Stitti probably wouldn't know that without looking information up in their system

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:45:01 UTC

they're not doing to good rn

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:45:12 UTC

Good point about Sameh having less bad injuries than Vera and Thomas

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:46:53 UTC

This level of

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:47:02 UTC

completely explaining how explosions would pass through and how the people would have gotten injured, big brain.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:47:11 UTC

preparedness makes the prosecution look really good*

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:47:27 UTC

agreed

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:47:57 UTC

This might be their strongest round of questioning so far.

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:48:37 UTC

wow, i never thought about it like that.

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:48:43 UTC

that was very good

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:49:09 UTC

Wow, that was really good

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:49:47 UTC

Who's this?

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:49:54 UTC

bus driver

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:49:57 UTC

Dov Agmon

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:50:03 UTC

got it

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:51:00 UTC

bus driver was in a hurry- that's what I got from that

3416514572 — 2019-11-14 15:51:42 UTC

I will be presenting something

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:52:54 UTC

they didnt put a rifle to his head. they just pressed his face against the glass!

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:53:32 UTC

they hit him with the stock of the gun

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:53:38 UTC

right

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:53:48 UTC

but they didnt put him at gunpoint

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:53:49 UTC

Covin- I have had students suspect that he was hit on the head with a rifle 🤬. I don't knwo if that's right or accurate, but it's a common question within the text

rachelbustle — 2019-11-14 15:53:56 UTC

right- not at gunpoint

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-14 15:54:55 UTC

Right. And technically he didn't fall to the ground-- which is what they said happened. Do you trust his testimony?

9716861 — 2019-11-14 15:54:58 UTC

didnt his bag hit the floor and make a thump

8409683 — 2019-11-14 15:55:17 UTC

His bag hit the floor of the bus with a loud noise as if there was something heavy in it.

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:56:35 UTC

They introduce some good points

1765447186 — 2019-11-14 15:57:52 UTC

I like how they are showing diagrams and explaining

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 15:57:59 UTC

Dang

12074988 — 2019-11-14 15:59:03 UTC

Definitely showing preparedness by coming in with diagrams and factual evidence (credibility/ethos)

12041246 — 2019-11-14 15:59:14 UTC

The bus driver explain that Sameh was hit on the head with a rifle 🤬 on the beginning of page 86.

12101113 — 2019-11-14 15:59:54 UTC

when his bag hit the floor it made a soft thud

4417274568 — 2019-11-14 16:01:43 UTC

There's a lot of credibility in this

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:11:00 UTC

Give it up for day 3

120445811 — 2019-11-15 14:13:39 UTC

hwy

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:16:40 UTC

Im sorry who's talking?

120445811 — 2019-11-15 14:16:46 UTC

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:17:03 UTC

I meant the witness

12064639 — 2019-11-15 14:17:45 UTC

Clive

12074988 — 2019-11-15 14:17:49 UTC

Clive Burleigh

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 14:18:32 UTC

Is Clive looking reliable?

12074988 — 2019-11-15 14:19:42 UTC

Haven't really heard him talk as much yet

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:20:19 UTC

He seems direct

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 14:23:39 UTC

I feel like he hasn't said much so far? He was initially confused about who Sameh was and how they were connected?

8409683 — 2019-11-15 14:26:21 UTC

Mark explains things very well and gives really good information.

laurelrowland — 2019-11-15 14:26:26 UTC

Prosecution had a strong wrap u

laurelrowland — 2019-11-15 14:26:29 UTC

up*

12064639 — 2019-11-15 14:27:10 UTC

They had very good points

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:27:24 UTC

preliminary investigation by the *police

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:27:27 UTC

Now it's the defendants' turn

12074988 — 2019-11-15 14:30:06 UTC

Is the defense incriminating Sameh????

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:30:14 UTC

This is kinda awkward

12074988 — 2019-11-15 14:30:22 UTC

Or maybe I am misinterpreting his questions...

laurelrowland — 2019-11-15 14:30:41 UTC

Prosecution incriminates

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 14:30:44 UTC

I'm a little confused by it also

8409683 — 2019-11-15 14:31:23 UTC

logan needs to stop smacking his lips into the mi

8409683 — 2019-11-15 14:31:31 UTC

mic*

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:31:43 UTC

Im confused on why he's asking these question

12074988 — 2019-11-15 14:32:19 UTC

Ms. Rowland- I understand that, I was saying, Logan asked a question that could've hurt Sameh's case (in being innocent), rather than keeping him from looking guilty.

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:34:45 UTC

Was this with The Boss? Tell me what parts you found confusing

9716861 — 2019-11-15 14:36:03 UTC

the prosecution is doing great right now.

1765447186 — 2019-11-15 14:39:15 UTC

the prosecution is making really good points.

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-15 14:39:33 UTC

Not going to lie, I'm really impressed with the prosecution's wrap ups

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:39:51 UTC

That went in many places

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:39:58 UTC

Yeah, but the prosecution isn't actually making good points

9716861 — 2019-11-15 14:40:09 UTC

yes they are

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:40:13 UTC

Usually their points are easily rebuttled

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-15 14:40:17 UTC

oh they're definitely making good points.

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:40:38 UTC

And they usually completely ignore prior evidence

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:40:47 UTC

Especially the police report

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:41:02 UTC

That wasn't Clive's report, that was the police's

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:41:16 UTC

But they instead tried to say that Clive made it

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-15 14:42:07 UTC

they pointed out that the police report was "preliminary" -- which is true-- it isn't the official report. That's smart. As a reporter, Clive would be familiar with everything that has been made public about the case. Also the defense is the team that originally brought the preliminary report up with Clive.

12074988 — 2019-11-15 14:45:25 UTC

Logan, there is a difference between giving constructive criticism, and just being rude... you would not feel great if the prosecution bashed your points. I believe they are doing a great job of summarizing it up for everyone after they make good claims.

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:45:30 UTC

Because yesterday they were really adamant that the explosion happened inside the bus, but when we do have something that says otherwise they completely ignore that, especially since Clive only reported what he heard

12064639 — 2019-11-15 14:46:18 UTC

They didn't ignore it, they just proved you wrong

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 14:46:34 UTC

Explain how they proved me wrong

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-15 14:46:45 UTC

stop arguing on the backchannel

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-15 14:46:50 UTC

this is not productive

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:49:46 UTC

I think the defentent was weak on that

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 14:50:08 UTC

I think the prosecution was unable to prove anything to make Sameh look guilty by questioning Amal.

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:52:50 UTC

What was even this video???

8697716 — 2019-11-15 14:53:16 UTC

A confession

12146290 — 2019-11-15 14:53:18 UTC

right

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:53:31 UTC

That was Omar, right?

12041294 — 2019-11-15 14:54:12 UTC

who else did u even watch it?

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:54:49 UTC

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:55:29 UTC

Anyway I think that the video just revealed a lot

12146290 — 2019-11-15 14:55:36 UTC

yes it did

8697716 — 2019-11-15 14:55:37 UTC

yesirrr

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 14:58:14 UTC

Wow that was pretty strong for the Defense

12041294 — 2019-11-15 14:58:31 UTC

yup

kelseyagar1_1 — 2019-11-15 14:58:44 UTC

LETS GOOOOOO

8409683 — 2019-11-15 14:58:54 UTC

ok..

12593443 — 2019-11-15 15:01:31 UTC

For those of the jury who were confused on my statement back with Amal this is what i was trying to prove: I'm trying to state that they knew the bombing had happened but they didn't know any facts about if Sameh had survived or not. They didn't even know if Sameh was there on the bus. If Amal didn't know that he worked in Israel how could the mother start mourning if she didn't even know that he was there? Unless she knew that Sameh was planning to bomb the bus based on the video he created.

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:03:46 UTC

Wow really good for the defense

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:05:05 UTC

prosecution is doing one heck of a job right now with sameh

12064639 — 2019-11-15 15:08:42 UTC

Cracking down and is getting some answers

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:09:16 UTC

Prosecution is killing it right now

12041294 — 2019-11-15 15:10:20 UTC

sameh don't choke

8409683 — 2019-11-15 15:10:43 UTC

Maybe saying if he did die then basically he would die happily but not directly saying he would die.

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:12:58 UTC

What in the world...

1765447186 — 2019-11-15 15:12:58 UTC

i agree with covin, he didn't say he would die that day also

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:13:06 UTC

if there was a bomb wouldnt the bag exploded.

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:13:14 UTC

TRUE

8409683 — 2019-11-15 15:13:43 UTC

AND THE FOOD WOULD BE COOKED

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:14:00 UTC

haha yea

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:15:23 UTC

Man the prosecution trapped Sameh against the wall

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:15:55 UTC

yea they did

12064639 — 2019-11-15 15:15:58 UTC

They have found their answer

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:16:55 UTC

its a diffrent bag trying to persuade us saying he didn't have a bomb

8409683 — 2019-11-15 15:17:00 UTC

he used his trap card

2019-11-15 15:18:55 UTC

Samah just admitted to being a suicide bombing

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 15:19:03 UTC

These Sameh's are doing an awesome job

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:19:13 UTC

TAKING IT BACK DANG

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:19:18 UTC

BUT THEY SWORE TO TELL THE TRUTH SO HE STILL SAID IT

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 15:19:26 UTC

He admitted that the prosecution "claimed" he was a bomber

8409683 — 2019-11-15 15:19:47 UTC

truth serum

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 15:19:48 UTC

this is mandated by US Law

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:19:57 UTC

this isnt the usa

rachelbustle — 2019-11-15 15:20:29 UTC

We understand this would technically be under Israeli law, but in order to provide a realistic opportunity for you all, we have to work with what we know

12068794 — 2019-11-15 15:22:24 UTC

The judges permitted us to ask questions. We did not break any laws. If it was a problem, the judge would have said something.

8409683 — 2019-11-15 15:23:06 UTC

Why was he talking about U.S. amendments when they are in Israel?

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 15:23:57 UTC

This is governed by US Law

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 15:24:02 UTC

Ask Ms. Agar

3416514572 — 2019-11-15 15:24:18 UTC

so the 5th amendment applies here

9716861 — 2019-11-15 15:24:38 UTC

GUILTY

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:28:22 UTC

wait until they finish their closing statement

4417274568 — 2019-11-15 15:31:11 UTC

Okay so what are we saying?

12041294 — 2019-12-12 15:20:18 UTC

i am in

12041294 — 2019-12-12 15:20:34 UTC

cmcmccmmcmcmcmcmcm