MAS 364M: Shklar's American Citizenship by Lali Sánchez

Why does the vote or the chance to earn a living become so valuable only when people are denied it? Do rights get their meaning through contrast with those excluded?

haileysancheztx — 2025-09-03 19:06:27 UTC

How do changing economic and social conditions (like work, unemployment, or welfare) keep reshaping what it means to be recognized as a “full American citizen,” beyond just having the right to vote?

bjs4643 — 2025-09-03 19:17:11 UTC

The reading points out that forces like racism, sexism, and nativism have always worked against the promise of equal citizenship in America, and still do today. Beyond the stigma attached to welfare, where do we still see people being treated as less than full members of American society, even if they technically have equal rights on paper?

bjs4643 — 2025-09-03 19:20:58 UTC

2025-09-05 14:34:30 UTC

It's not so much contrast as it is having agency.

Question 2

2025-09-05 14:34:45 UTC

I think something central to Americanism is this narrative of the American Dream, that you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps and achieve success without welfare or any outside help needed. Being able to work /achieve is central to the American capitalist identity.

Sienna D.

2025-09-05 14:34:45 UTC

Great question! I think perhaps the exclusion of rights can commodify them a bit, making them more valuable. The only metaphor I can think of is the matcha shortage. Matcha was always good, but now that there's a shortage its far more of a commodity. So in short, exclusion can make something more valuable, even if it was already valuable before.

2025-09-05 14:34:53 UTC

i think that when it comes to being able to deny someone the right to vote, it makes that ability more exclusive. but this in turn causes an exclusionary system. it makes voting seem even more desirable to those who can.

2025-09-05 14:34:59 UTC

I believe that, unfortunately, rights hold as much power as they do because there are those who do not benefit from them. Our society likely benefits on a system of superiority complexes.

2025-09-05 14:35:05 UTC

When something is denied to someone, it is seen that not every person can get it, and adds competition and pressure to achieve this status (kind of like if you were dropped in the middle of the Hunger Games, and there are limited resources in the middle; now you have to compete to get these resources). Unfortunately, things do get their meaning when it is denied to others, and as I stated earlier, creates competition to get on top and get this “commodity”

2025-09-05 14:35:13 UTC

When the right to vote begins to be challenged or denied for a certain group of people, it reflects the intentional suppression of those voices. It then becomes more important because we have to explore the root cause of why these votes are being suppressed

2025-09-05 14:35:16 UTC

I think that when people get denied those rights it gives the people that can vote or earn a living a sense exclusivity to said rights.

2025-09-05 14:35:29 UTC

I don’t that the exclusion of certain people or the denial of rights are what give them power, but I do think that this process can sometimes be a powerful component in showing people what they should be getting or feel entitled to.

2025-09-05 14:35:38 UTC

Vote & the chance to earn a living becomes so valuable when people are denied it because it becomes an unjust system of discrimination and something that corrupts our country even more in ways that sometimes can't be undone.

The right to vote and the chance to earn a living are on different platforms. People need to earn a living to survive being denied that is detrimental. However being denied to vote is valuable regardless of it being denied or not. Voting give the people a chance to decided who can represent their beliefs and their lives the most. If you are not granted that then others will be deciding the course of your life without your input. Those rights are gaining agency because of exclusions.

2025-09-05 14:35:39 UTC

The right to vote becomes valuable when people are denied it because there are large amounts of people in a population excluded from the franchise. Therefore, the fight for rights becomes a very powerful move where people with common goals can unite under the banner of inclusion for the right to vote or any other specific rights that are exclusionary for many.

2025-09-05 14:35:50 UTC

I think in some ways this notion can be true- when those who are denied the right to vote fight so hard for it, it makes another person's right to vote seem much more valuable and appreciated. However I think there's a bit more nuance to this. When we think about who is denied the right to vote it often is the most marginalized population in America. Their rights and means to living are the ones most often hanging in balance and they face the brunt of the negative legislation that is passed. So their fight for the right to vote becomes much more powerful and filled with meaning as they fight for their ability to foster a livelihood

2025-09-05 14:35:56 UTC

I think we still see this discrimination from harassment on social media, news outlets, and even in person. Another aspect that i think is important to address is how institutions also in their own way perpetuate discrimination. Right now there is a lot of discussion on how academic settings are being targeted for their inclusion or exclusion of undocumented people. However, if we go even deeper, we can think about institutions like government offices and how they have a history of discrimination by turning away services from certain groups. (ex: women, people of color, lgbtq)

2025-09-05 14:35:59 UTC

The denial of a right to vote represents a denial of engagement with the policy making that someone has to live with. Having this right be so dependent on status essentially signifies that their opinion doesn’t matter because they do not have the proper paperwork or status, so someone else will have to make decisions for them.

2025-09-05 14:36:06 UTC

sets standards for belonging

2025-09-05 14:36:20 UTC

The chance to vote or earn a living becomes so valuable because they are restricted in every sense of the way, to even earn a wage in America specifically you need to have a work visa or something of that nature. Rights gather their meaning from things that impact citizenship: race, socioeconomic status, gender, nation of origin some of which are social notions.

2025-09-05 14:36:41 UTC

These things become more valuable when they are threatened because people are instilled with fear. I do think rights, along with most other things, get their conceptualization through contrast and othering, otherwise they would not have value. We gain awareness or who we are and how we are perceived through othering, and exclusion is at the heart of inclusion.

2025-09-05 14:36:56 UTC

The right to vote and the chance to earn a living become valuable when denied as they are matters of agency, empowerment, and social standing. Those who have the right to vote are higher among the metaphorical hierarchical ladder as they don’t have to face as many social issues. With all being said I believe rights do get their meaning when people have been excluded. Exclusion makes certain rights more valuable and thus give them more meaning.

2025-09-05 14:37:27 UTC

the US was founded on the idea that anyone can have money, regardless of what status/class you were born in, as long as you work hard enough. connecting this, we can see that those who get to be included MUST be deemed hard working.

Sienna D.

2025-09-05 14:37:31 UTC

I think as these certain systems fluctuate, the definition and construction of being American can change as well.

2025-09-05 14:37:40 UTC

I believe that a majority of people think being a full American citizen just means “contributing to society” which in most cases is just working and paying taxes.

2025-09-05 14:37:51 UTC

Having the ability to vote or to make a living in this society uplifts people’s class. Therefore, when people have opportunities that others cannot have it brings people power and makes the ability to vote or to earn a living not be taken for granted. Therefore, this brings a sense of insiders vs. outsiders

2025-09-05 14:38:08 UTC

Besides non censored platforms like tiktok where the government can’t have heavy regulations on it. Many other social medias like X and Facebook, Latin immigrants might face discrimination through hateful comments targeting their ethnicity or language just because of their choice for a presence in the US. They may also encounter misinformation that negatively stereotypes their community, making them feel unwelcome and less valued in online discussions. (can go for any race/ethnicity)

2025-09-05 14:38:15 UTC

People who are able to live without welfare, can sustain themselves, and have a decent paying job seems to be the norm for “being American”, because America is about pushing oneself forward, not focusing on family values and whatnot, compared to countries that push said family values, such as South Korea.

2025-09-05 14:38:17 UTC

Disparates between groups become more evident when there is a large gap between people. This highlights disproportionate access and resources certain groups have due to social class, status, etc.

Nationalism

2025-09-05 14:38:19 UTC

Unfortunately, in human nature, in order for a group to feel proud with a sense of belonging, there has to be a counterpart that’s excluded. This trait empowers nationalism and a superiority complex towards the non belonging individuals.

2025-09-05 14:38:23 UTC

Considering that Schklar argues that a central point of our starting conceptions citizenship was the right to earn and be self sufficient, I think these forces continue to directly influence our ability to earn. The idea of the American dream that continues today is an ideal for many, despite the fact that the majority of our capitalist systems have conflicted in their drive for and acceptance of immigration throughout different time periods. Inevitably, many US immigrants are impacted first and the worst by any economic shifts and are often forced to remain unstable and within the working class, yet we blame them for these very forces we created

2025-09-05 14:38:31 UTC

A very good example of this are people who are unhoused. They frequently have trouble obtaining the documents to apply for work or vote no matter their race and even if they are natural born citizens.

question 2

2025-09-05 14:38:34 UTC

Being recognized as a full American citizen now means having the state provide for you through systems of social welfare, expanding the inclusivity by removing the economic restrictions associated with early forms of citizenship

2025-09-05 14:38:34 UTC

The way financial transactions are handled becomes more regulated when it is between “full American citizens”. Receiving payment off the record is both a necessity and dangerous as it can take away certain labor protections. In this case, citizenship represents and form of safety.

Sienna D.

2025-09-05 14:38:44 UTC

Anyone who is perceived to be foreign. In today's climate, anyone with brown skin is rendered othered in society, and it consequently subject to social stratification and various forms of racial discrimination.

q3

2025-09-05 14:38:47 UTC

naturalized citizens now have the added fear of being stripped of their citizenship and potentially deported, weakening the rights based citizenship perspective we've had for the past century

2025-09-05 14:39:06 UTC

They reshape what it means to be a "full American citizen" because status and class are always changing and citizenship and "civil society" is a response to that.

2025-09-05 14:39:11 UTC

Consistently changing economic and social conditions in part changes what many of our families deemed the American Dream, and ultimately our view of what a "true" citizen looks like. I've asked members of my family if this reality we live in now is what they dreamt of before crossing over some 30 years ago, and the answer is always no.

2025-09-05 14:39:13 UTC

When people are denied the opportunity for something it creates a bigger problem because it creates the discussion of why they were denied the chance. It also leads the people that don’t have this right to take more importance into obtaining this right.

2025-09-05 14:39:16 UTC

Changing economic and social conditions reshape what it means to be recognized as a “full American citizen” beyond just the right to vote as it pushes people either further down or higher on a metaphorical hierarchical ladder. The higher up you are the more condition you have and the closer you are to being a “model citizen.”

2025-09-05 14:39:21 UTC

A small example is just the term “illegal alien” or “alien”. I fully believe that this serves to dehumanize immigrants and paint their quest for a better life as one of invasion and conquest, despite the entire history of America being just that

2025-09-05 14:39:26 UTC

I think that it’s in American culture to compete and earn the most and be the best. We act as though systems exist as a zero-sum game, where only a portion of the population can have something.

2025-09-05 14:39:32 UTC

I think that we still see this in multiple areas of society. People who gained citizenship but are presumably not American will always face some sort of backlash over these matters. Through social media and being able to cover up your tracks, this is a common occurrence of backlash against people who are legal citizens but don't necessarily fit the normalized “standard” that others have put out there.

q1

2025-09-05 14:39:39 UTC

yes, according to the text, people who did not have citizenship status were pariahs

2025-09-05 14:39:41 UTC

To be a full American citizen is to achieve the American dream. If these things become easier or harder to achieve them impact how someone may achieve their citizenship. The American dream say you should always be employed, and never receive welfare but how does receiving welfare impact a birthright citizen vs a neutralized one.

2025-09-05 14:39:44 UTC

In regards to economic decisions, we saw in class today (in the news discussion portion) how jobs are being challenged based on language barriers, which poses an issue for the future requirements for different types of jobs. This makes it harder for people to be recognized as a “full American citizen” when they might be recognized as one in a legal sense, but might face challenges like not knowing English, making it harder to get a job

2025-09-05 14:39:48 UTC

The reading mentions that during the times of slavery what separated those working from citizenship was the ability to get paid. I think this still rings true today. If you work hard and live "the American dream" then you earn the right to citizenship. This idea can villainize those who depend on unemployment benefits or a variety of welfare programs as some people create this notion that these individuals don't deserve to be in America because they aren't working hard. They relate these qualities of unemployment and welfare to characteristics that are bad within our society (such as crime), rather than focusing on what is actually causing these issues within society (high socioeconomic divides).

2025-09-05 14:39:51 UTC

A lot of minorities from any demographic get a lot of hate in the comment sections, DMs, etc. on social media posts regardless of if they’re a legal citizen or not.

2025-09-05 14:39:52 UTC

As social conditions change, such the development of new economic industries and social programs, unemployment is not views as not being a full citizen. Social conditions shape the definition of what it means to be a citizen as it’s a very malleable subject. As people experience differing life experiences or eras of citizenship, their attachment to citizenship changes as well.

In the public eye. People of color are majority of the time the ones people believe to not be citizens. Police officers, maga republicans, and other form of law enforcement will question a person of color’s citizenship status without need to. People of color are not see as citizens first, it goes back to that whole questions “where are you really from.”

2025-09-05 14:39:56 UTC

2025-09-05 14:40:18 UTC

I think we often see people’s citizenship being questioned - bordering on harassment in some cases. Despite them have full rights on paper, the right to simply exist peacefully is not protected in this case.