Town Hall Meeting on Mt.SAC’s GE Philosophy 11/15/2024 by

3. How do you think the changes could affect students in terms of their: A. educational goals, B. transfer rates, C. preparation for career, or, D.other?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

5. What are the consequences of a local GE pattern not aligning with CalGETC?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

1. Considering the recent title 5 changes, how might Mt. SAC review and update our current General Education Philosophy statement?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

4. What does it mean to align our local GE pattern with CalGETC? How will aligning with CalGETC affect students who may or may not choose to transfer?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

2. What questions do you have about the changes to the general education requirements for local associate degrees?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

What’s one takeaway that you know now that you didn’t know before this town hall?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

What outstanding question do you have?

ashleylanuza — 2024-11-12 21:25:16 UTC

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:00:19 UTC

Reducing the GE requirements would positively impact high unit majors. I.e. Sign Language Interpreting - 70 units in the major, plus 30+ of GE. This is a very high unit requirement for Associate Degree

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:01:41 UTC

Reducing GE too much, may be focusing on major/ skill. Student will not be well rounded.

5. Re: Arts

2024-11-15 18:02:27 UTC

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:03:49 UTC

Mt. SAC can remain an outlier, staying at 30 units, however, campuses with only 21 units of GE may draw more students to their campus. Mt. SAC can potentially lose students.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:07:02 UTC

Can students take the GE path without taking the local?

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:11:25 UTC

Reducing GE, fear students will be undereducated. See importance in the US history/Poli and Art and Humanities.

Disagree on these changes. Students need time to process information and learning. It feels rush. Cutting options and options? what is the rush ??

2024-11-15 18:11:26 UTC

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:12:21 UTC

Can impact students in terms of what they choose to take. For example, Area E is where students can become more self aware, self reflective, and how they fit in the world -- educationally, career-wise, in their relationships, etc. The conversations have change to having students choose what they want to major in before they really get started, and this doesn't meet the needs of all students.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:12:30 UTC

Many students need time, and they need time to figure out what they need to know so they can make good decisions for themselves. Impact their overall ability to make decisions and how they see themselves in the community and in the world at large.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:12:34 UTC

First gen students don't know, and it seems like there are more forced choices rather than time for students to have time and options for expereinces to explore courses to see what they like, what they are interested in, what they will thrive in. For those who have different needs, we are not meeting their needs by taking away these courses.

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:13:10 UTC

Appreciation of Area E - for our Community College student who are not transferring. Community college are becoming like Junior College only preparing student to University. However, we have a great number of students who are not transferring.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:14:02 UTC

Agree with the comment of - fewer options, fewer discovery opportunities.

We need to think about what it is at Mt. SAC that students need.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:15:34 UTC

Cal-GETC is for the transfer students, but the students who start at that transfer school do not have to follow Cal-GETC. They may have more opportunities for exploration and seminars that provide opportunities for growth. We take away valuable experiences if we just follow the Cal-GETC model.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:16:31 UTC

If we keep our local GE pattern separate from Cal-GETC, they will get a more well-rounded experience. Some people don't want to transfer. Students do need classes that will help them be successful in the world.

Ethnic Studies

2024-11-15 18:16:38 UTC

If we are keeping ethnic studies/Area F, it should have info in the catalog description!

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:17:53 UTC

Perhaps confusion about which path take, but we have the resources to resolve that with Counselors.

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:18:01 UTC

Areas of such as Arts, Humanities and Area E are exploration opportunities.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:18:09 UTC

It's not equitable, having one size fits all model.

Overarching Dilemma

2024-11-15 18:18:43 UTC

By aligning the local AA and CalGETC this By aligning the local AA with CalGETC, students benefit from simplified choices; however, this approach compromises the diversity of educational options and the breadth of learning opportunities. Additionally, we lack a clear understanding of the scale of the issue: how many students aim to transfer as soon as possible, how many need more time, and how many return because they want access to additional classes? By tailoring the structure to prioritize the transfer model, we risk limiting what we can offer and eliminating courses like beginning drawing or beginning ceramics that students could benefit from.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:18:47 UTC

We do have students who transfer without completing all of IGETC now. The student just needs to be eligible for transfer, and that differs depending on the institution and their major.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:20:04 UTC

Students may need to take additional courses if they change their mind.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:22:17 UTC

Having separate paths could help people finish sooner.

2024-11-15 18:22:29 UTC

If we only went with CalGETC we should edit out Lifelong Learning components- BUT our group does not recommend doing this!

2024-11-15 18:24:28 UTC

How many AS degrees have more than 39 units if we were to reduce our local GE to just 21 units of GE?

Not "productive"

2024-11-15 18:25:12 UTC

change to positively contributing

outdated language

2024-11-15 18:25:59 UTC

replace "men and women" with "individual people"

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:26:57 UTC

There are different ways that we can approach this.

Add American Institutions Requirement - Would not add units

2024-11-15 18:27:23 UTC

Add this as a local requirement. There is a local Senate resolution and statewide resolution to support this position. The United States History, Constitution and American Ideals Requirement, commonly known as the American Institutions Requirement, in Title 5 §40404, “ensure(s) that students acquire knowledge and skills that will help them to comprehend the workings of American democracy and of the society in which they live to enable them to contribute to that society as responsible and constructive citizens” is a vital part of the California Community College mission, not just California State University system, and is as vital today as it was 60 years ago when it was written into law to ensure an educated, informed, and empowered citizenry. It is aligns with our College mission and vision to serve the “community through improving economic achievement, advancing civic engagement, enhancing personal well-being, developing critical thinking, and enriching aesthetic and cultural experiences” and is animated by the Chancellor’s Offices call for California Community Colleges to remain “accessible and personal institutions that can help students on an individual level regain their hopes and rebuild their futures” where the core vision is to put students first.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:32:34 UTC

If 60 units are needed for the degree, why do we need to reduce the number of GE units? 21 min of GE plus the major for the 60 units. Some majors have higher units, so for them, maybe the GE could be lower but include area E and other areas that might be missing.

2024-11-15 18:33:10 UTC

We should not eliminate offering languages other than English. Learning another language, even at a beginner's level, is a great tool for expanding one's knowledge of the world and of oneself. It is a travesty that this is no longer considered as a valuable option for General Education. It offers cross-cultural competency, a sense of empathy and humility, and prepares students to become competent citizens. There should be an area for Global Citizenship (American Institution, Climate Education, Cultural/Linguistic Diversity)

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:33:16 UTC

Some programs will be highly impacted.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:35:02 UTC

Group member said they were a student at Mt. SAC and their GE class in the Arts made a big impact on their development as a student -- it was an important part of their experience. These kinds of courses can be so valuable to our students. And it's tapping into a different part of their brains, and making connections in other areas.

paulinelibrarian — 2024-11-15 18:35:55 UTC

Mt. SAC needs to make a commitment to a well-rounded gen ed experience. It's keeping our commitment to our students who do not want to transfer.

We need these soft skills in the world.

Limiting

2024-11-15 18:36:35 UTC

Students go to a community college to help them gain abilities and opportunities they’re not getting elsewhere. If a student is told that a particular course or area is not needed for their GE, they will think it is unimportant and will not take it, losing a critical piece of their education. Later in life, we all realize why some courses we may not have initially wanted to take ended up being so crucial to our overall education.

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:37:06 UTC

Financial Consideration/ practical consideration vs. philosophical. More requirements can impact tuition cost.

Other local degree patterns

2024-11-15 18:38:16 UTC

Other community colleges are keeping the more traditional local Gen Ed patterns, and will draw those students preferring studio ARTS Gen Ed over lecture classes in art away from Mt SAC if we do not offer studio art Gen Ed classes in addition to lecture Art History classes. Registration at Mt SAC could suffer from the loss of Gen Ed courses in multiple areas.

Commitment to Community

2024-11-15 18:41:06 UTC

Students that are not interested in transferring should have access to courses that can help them gain skills to help them be well rounded

2024-11-15 18:44:01 UTC

We need to find an intelligent compromise between being efficient, convenient, streamlined and being intentional, diverse, and dedicated to teaching

cton17 — 2024-11-15 18:45:52 UTC

Option to use Cal GETC GE for Local Associates degree while still maintaining local GE pattern for students who aiming for an AS degree.

In our group we felt that our students should have the option to choose courses like languages, art, and courses from area E. In fact, we felt that student's growth and development should be protected. Thus, we feel that having our own GE pattern, having our own local control, by keeping our GE pattern separate from CalGETC.

2024-11-15 18:47:27 UTC

Many students are not transferring. I was a student at Mt. SAC and feel that the freedom presented to me to choose classes is being taken away to the point that the notion of open access is fading away.

2024-11-15 18:47:38 UTC

2024-11-15 18:49:09 UTC

It makes no sense that only level three and four of foreign language count as GE. The first impact with another language is the most important. Additionally, there are many languages that are needed in the workforce. There are many speakers of Languages Other than English in our communities. Languages serve 1) self-knowledge 2) global awareness 3) professional effectiveness

2024-11-15 19:08:12 UTC

Perhaps we can have a GE pattern that aligns with CalGETC but also includes an Area (E)lective that allows students to choose one course from those that don't fit into CalGETC: applied/studio arts, languages, self-development and exploration. This requirement can promote exploration of self, lifelong learning, and a wide variety of fields. Another benefit is that by being on the GE, students would know that these courses exist and may take them out of interest even if they've already fulfilled the requirement. Students tend to look at GE lists vs. reading through the catalog, so the GE list would "promote" the courses that students may not otherwise know about.

cton17 — 2024-11-15 19:09:20 UTC

Benefits of General Knowledge/ Education - one participant shared book called "Range" by David Epstein. Importance of range of skills/knowledge/experience over specialization

2024-11-15 19:41:42 UTC

We seem to require many more GE than other schools nearby