UA Seminar 1 - Group 5 by Parshia https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5 Notes en-us 2019-03-06 03:26:55 UTC 2019-05-02 04:01:37 UTC hello@padlet.com Week 1: Key Geographical/Topographical Features of the Underworld (Plato, Phaedo 112a-113c) https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/338689218 WATER
Encircles 
Contains or excludes the inhabitants surrounding it 
Often form a natural boundary 
Rivers and Lakes
  1. Styx (what the gods swear upon) "leaden grey" "lake"
  2. Lethe (forgetfulness)
  3. Acheron where the majority of souls go in the afterlife directly opposite to OCeanus, flowing into desolate regions 
  4. Phlegethon (ON FIRE) flows into Tartatos "jets of lava.." 113b - origin of lava from volcanoes 
  5. Kokytos flows into Tartaros and flows into the Stygian Region and becomes 
  • Oceanus "the greatest of [rivers]...the outermost circle..." 113a 
  • May be in levels 
  • Spirals and circles "winding like snakes.." 112d
LOTS OF MIST
Tartaros 
  • Pit in the ground (cavity in the earth) 
  • Biggest cavity in the earth 
  • Ominous 
  • The abyss
  • Upside down traffic cone 
  • Physical power of water movement creates air
  • NOTE: climate of Underworld -- mist
Regions -- very distinct between areas 
Physics 
  • Gravity 
  • Similarities between world of living and dead but not exact
  • Reflection of world of living; distorted 
  • Not on one plane 
  • Not on same level 
  • Inspiration for Vergil/Dante? 
  • Work according to different rules

]]> 2019-03-07 02:25:27 UTC https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/338689218 Week 1: Key Geographical/Topographical Features of the Underworld (Hesiod, Theogony 726-825) https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/338695216 Spacing/Distance
  • In equal separation from the earth as the Olympus/the Heavens above 
  • Shown by the hypothetical dropping of the bronze anvil 
  • It hits the ground - Underworld is a physical place with a ground - has a physicality 
  • Location between other physical places
Wall and Bronze Gates 
  • Natural outgrow of bronze 
  • Can put things in relation to it
  • Positive in relation to it - i.e. Night's house inside in the walls
  • Not a common material of walls in the world of the living (wealth?) 
  • Contains dwellings and houses 
River System
  • Named rivers
  • Styx flows between human world and underworld 
  • Iris collects at precipitous stone - waterfall? 
  • Carries water -- provide the source of life 
  • Moves through space -- transportation of people and objects through a physical connection 
Dwellings
  • Night and Death have own house 
  • Night and Day share house --suggests that they cannot be in same place at same time 
  • Suggests that the environment is dark and gloomy  -- swamp-iness? scary? neither water or land -- growth but also death. Reflection of environment that is natural but not. 
  • Emphasis on substances of composition of Underworld (gloomy dark)
  • Has Nyx (night) there when Hesiod begins his tale but Erebos is there as well (also darkness, but thicker, gloomier darkness) 
  • Static environment -- no cycle of day and night 
  • Day may be inside the house but may not be lighting

]]> 2019-03-07 02:55:52 UTC https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/338695216 Week 2: What does the entrance space suggest about the nature of the Underworld? (Virgil, Aeneid 6.331-402) https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/341151014
  • Motif of jaws/mouth/maw of entrance; going to be consumed by death, one way trip (being eaten), consumption -- suggestion of nature of the Afterlife (experiencing death as consuming) 
  • Size: if the entrance was profound...and huge, it's big = the Underworld is big. Suggestion that death is also huge/how many does it encompass? All of the dead- is it bigger than the world of the living? 
  • Wild: rough under foot; untamed/uncivilised/not ordered (implications for Roman readership?)/natural in the unnatural/chaos being natural?/natural????
  • Cave: natural formation but description does not appear natural - godly addition? Unnatural to the World of the living
  • Avernus - used to mean the Underworld : using it to specifically means the entrance to the Underworld, relates to avis (ah-wizz) [noun: birds/flying things], therefore avernus means the lack of flying thing
    • ]]>     2019-03-14 02:23:53 UTC https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/341151014     Week 2: What does the entrance space suggest about the relationship between the Underworld and the World of the living? (Virgil, Aeneid 6.331-402) https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/341151127 Physical Space 
    • Sense of warped reality:  "gloomy forest..deathly exhalations rose from the black gorge.." 333-5
    • Liminal-ity/transition  
    • Not two distinct places: elements overlapped, death present in the world of the living and living present in the world of the dead; "cavern was profound, wide-mouthed, and huge...deathly exhalations..."
    • Polluting world of the living
    • Architecture reflecting the Roman homes: going into the home of Pluto, having to follow the rules laid down by the master of the home: imagery of atrium of a home. Courtyard. Understand the function of atrium in the living world to the readership. Suggests that there are defined regions/architectural plan to the readers. 
    • Grief, Cares, pale Diseases, sad Age, Dread, Hunger, sordid Want, Death, Toil and Sleep, Death-bringing War, raving Discord: most common (known) causes of death to the Romans therefore, closest to the entrance: able to escape and ravage the mortal world. Having to go through them/having them bring you to the Underworld. Physically the closest. 
    • Presence of Elm tree : potential call back to Orpheus Myth; also very easily to contort and bend (flexibility between worlds?) 
    • Presence of Monsters: known monsters to Romans, often associated with foundation myths, the first to be overcome to achieve greatness (i.e Geryon and Hercules)   
    • Offerings: distinct separation, needed to travel within World of the dead - respect, paying dues
    • Reflection of patron-client relationship which is prevalent in Roman society 
    • Doorway: passage is possible, what can go in, can come out
    • Fear: associated with the Underworld, personifications of real-life problems, believed to preside in the Underworld. Manifestation of the fears/anxieties of the world of the living. Specific to ways that that you can die (overlying fear of death?) -- literally wear you down or a consequent upon that (376-384)
    • Layered space: other entrances, knowing when you're fully in and fully out is difficult. Conveyed here. Some entities expressed here are akin to the experience of death and as so are presented as neither in nor out.
    • Suggests the Underworld has an externalisation of things that would not be allowed in the world of the living; experience as external beings
    ]]>     2019-03-14 02:24:46 UTC https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/341151127     Week 3: How does exchange between Odysseus and Antikleia present the relationship between the living and the dead? https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/343607029
  • Selective knowledge: doesn't know about Odysseus but knows about Penelope, his wife
  • Three embraces (failed)
  • Intangibility
  • Expression of grief
  • Did not know that she had passed 
  • Physical presence of the spirits/shades (tears) 
  • Continuous mourning of spirits 
  • Tears (lots!)
  • Disconnection from the living world  
  • Odysseus thinks she might be a trick - "an image that proud Persephone.."
  • Guides him in life (advice on to tell Penelope everything) 
  • Cause of death: "a longing for [Odysseus], [his] cleverness, and [his] gentle ways.." 202-3.
  • Sharing of information: familiarity - relationship is maintained (it still exists beyond death); immediately recognises him, "full of lamentation". Dead are still concerned with the living. Interest, wants to know what is going on 
  • Doesn't have full access to world of the living: doesn't actually know about Odysseus
  •  Memory: the exchange of memories, maintaining memory is important
  • intangibility: wants to embrace her (hugs for mum). The living want to connect with the dead - he hasn't gone to connect with family but he stays to connect 
  • Dream-like: hazy/from the POV of the living- reflection upon memory
  • Belief that there is a soul in a body: what makes up a person? She lacks a physical body; escaping you --- dreams escape you. 
    • ]]>     2019-03-21 02:20:21 UTC https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/343607029     What do these examples of commemoration suggest about the people commemorated? https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/356056246
  • more human - having more people in - connection to the society they belong to
  • deceased alone - more heroic depiction? 
  • what they deem important is represented - family values 
  • good wives - fulfilling of domestic roles and traditional values is suggested 
  • what society thought as being their important traits 
  • women were commemorated with change in citizenship (Athenian) 
  • social status 
  • potential to be Hermes taking the deceased down to Hades; providing safe travel 
  • Athenian family - central figure holding spear - potential death involving military campaign? Or partaking in military campaigns during life? Decorated veteran? 
  • Teach her something ? Holding offering out towards her 
  • Commemorated Hegeso- richly dressed, hair covered, 
  • Snap shot of life? 
  • Daughter/Slave/Servant? 
  • Emphasis on role of mother if daughter 
  • Emphasis on social standing and role as housekeeper if slave
  • Seated significance - to identify the deceased within the relief
    • ]]>     2019-05-02 03:45:15 UTC https://padlet.com/ppls/UAsem1group5/wish/356056246