To be fair, this was a super serious question, and a lesson learned for the future, maybe too serious. Normal people, even those as senior as Ken, given he is the CEO of Bay Area Urban League, don’t think about this question on a daily basis. That said: Ken acknowledged that justice has evolved in complex ways, citing California as an example of a state making progress in uplifting marginalized communities. However, he noted that efforts at the federal level are much more challenging due to political divisions. He pointed to California’s initiatives to increase diversity on corporate boards as an example of progress, but also highlighted how lawsuits and opposition have rolled back these efforts, basically the pattern of progress followed by setbacks.

Can you recall a moment when you witnessed or participated in an act of resistance or advocacy that impacted your perspective on justice and change?

I asked if there were any specific recent actions, speeches, or legislation in the last 2-3 years that have furthered justice in the Bay Area. Ken mentioned state-led initiatives promoting diversity in leadership positions (by those who are diverse and in leadership positions) but noted that resistance, often in the form of lawsuits, has hindered their implementation. This seems to be a recurring theme… He mentioned “1 step forward, 100 steps back.” Heavy opposition.

How do you think systemic inequality has manifested in your community, and what specific policies or actions do you believe have perpetuated or challenged it?

Ken’s response highlights the push-and-pull nature of justice in the U.S.: while progress is made at local levels, larger systemic resistance often undermines these efforts. He reinforces the idea that justice is not just about enacting policies but also about the continued fight to maintain and enforce them. The legal and political landscape can often reverse years of work, making it a constant struggle rather than a linear path forward. “Cough, Trump, cough,”