Opening Exercise: QuEST for Higher Graduate Student Retention by Emily Winn

Opening Exercise: QuEST for Higher Graduate Student Retention by Emily Winn https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385 Here we are going to brainstorm the good and bad aspects of the qualifying exam system. We'll consider the benefits and harms to students and learning, and can even share past experiences. en-us 2022-03-15 17:42:54 UTC 2022-04-28 17:37:27 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet.net/icons/png/1f914.png Ensure that students have mastery of foundational material https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144207962 2022-04-14 18:11:06 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144207962 Workload on faculty https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208340 2022-04-14 18:11:29 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208340 Ensure students are capable of reading a breadth of existing literature, knowledge of definitions, etc. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208495 2022-04-14 18:11:38 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208495 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208503 I was able to pass my qualifying exams by getting a sufficiently high grade in the corresponding course! This meant I didn't have to take any high stake stand-alone exams in grad school. ]]> 2022-04-14 18:11:39 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208503 Very competent students choke & do poorly https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208508 2022-04-14 18:11:39 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208508 they're extremely stressful https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208539 2022-04-14 18:11:41 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208539 these exams are traumatic to a degree that outweighs their benefit. like most timed exams https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208833 2022-04-14 18:11:58 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208833 Can create a barrier for students who are not good test takers. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208970 2022-04-14 18:12:06 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144208970 Not clear that they are valid or reliable https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144209818 2022-04-14 18:12:51 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144209818 Motivate students to study material that's relevant for their subject but for which there's not enough time to cover in the course, encourage independence https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144209834 2022-04-14 18:12:52 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144209834 trauma, trauma, trauma https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144209979 2022-04-14 18:13:00 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144209979 none https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210327 2022-04-14 18:13:19 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210327 Tremendous inconsistencies in difficulty. My first time I took my analysis qual they failed all 12 or so people who took it, two years later it was very easy https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210359 2022-04-14 18:13:21 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210359 Duplicate assessments of coursework https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210624 2022-04-14 18:13:36 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210624 Results might reflect nerves/anxiety more than proficiency https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210670 2022-04-14 18:13:38 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144210670 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211037 A more objective measure of the students performance in the beginning of their career

]]> 2022-04-14 18:13:58 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211037 Can prolong time-to-degree for students, and that can reflect poorly on the department and have consequences at some universities. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211050 2022-04-14 18:13:59 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211050 Often require bootstrapping, which is much harder for undersupported populations of students https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211236 2022-04-14 18:14:08 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211236 Help student learn how to work hard https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211247 2022-04-14 18:14:08 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211247 Not clear that the written exam format reflects a skill that students will need to have to succeed in academia https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211276 2022-04-14 18:14:10 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211276 I feel like I learned a lot of material (some of which I later used in my research) https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211432 2022-04-14 18:14:18 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211432 people say that these exams are good for motivating students to learn the foundational material more deeply than they had to to pass the course, but I don't see this benefit outweighing the downsides https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211535 2022-04-14 18:14:24 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211535 edraygoins https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211655 A way to make sure everyone is familiar with a baseline set of terms, and everyone can solve a baseline set of problems.]]> 2022-04-14 18:14:32 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211655 Serves as an indicator to students that they are struggling https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211672 2022-04-14 18:14:33 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211672 Sense of accomplishment when completed https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211824 2022-04-14 18:14:40 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211824 prioritizes being clever and quick over thinking deeply and presenting things well https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211921 2022-04-14 18:14:46 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211921 Time limitations (must pass quals within X semesters) make it harder for underprepared students https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211955 2022-04-14 18:14:48 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144211955 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212109 If there is a core course requirement, allows students to demonstrate knowledge of the material in lieu of taking the core]]> 2022-04-14 18:14:56 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212109 they are frequently very detached from the math needed to conduct research in a field https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212167 2022-04-14 18:14:58 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212167 Spent summer working on it and came a long way at the end by really learning how to learn math on my own. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212303 2022-04-14 18:15:04 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212303 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212505 ensure that students have learned the details of a subject before they move on to try to do a graduate project on the topic]]> 2022-04-14 18:15:15 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212505 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212569 Leads to a competitive environment among grad students who feel that they have to prove themselves

]]> 2022-04-14 18:15:19 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212569 Recast of above: student succeeding at research, still trying to pass a qualifying subject https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212644 2022-04-14 18:15:24 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212644 Sometimes there is no way to remediate if exams are not passed. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212747 2022-04-14 18:15:29 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212747 Oral exams can be used to gauge whether students have integrated/synthesized knowledge from their coursework https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212804 2022-04-14 18:15:33 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212804 Helps students develop better skills for learning fundamental material independent of a classroom setting and instructor. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212853 2022-04-14 18:15:36 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212853 Synthesized a lot of material, gained a deeper understanding of the material and how different courses related https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212872 2022-04-14 18:15:37 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212872 Gets students to learn the "core" material in a deeper way than just from a course. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212893 2022-04-14 18:15:39 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212893 Unclear that it was an efficient learning tool... I learned the stuff to pass and then forgot a lot of it. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212903 2022-04-14 18:15:39 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212903 I've seen very promising students leave either due to poor performance on qualifying exams, or due to stress over it https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212921 2022-04-14 18:15:40 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212921 edraygoins https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212956 These exams buy into the "timed problem solving" culture of math, instead of the "collaborative, relaxed" culture]]> 2022-04-14 18:15:43 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212956 High stakes exams disadvantage students with test anxiety https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212995 2022-04-14 18:15:45 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144212995 It was really tough watching many of my close friends struggle with the very arbitrary pass/fail decisions for different qualifying exams. It also created a clear hierarchy in the program of "strong" vs "weak" students based on who passed their exams the quickest. Of course the "weak" students were disproportionately white women and students of color who had not taken graduate math classes in undergrad. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213016 2022-04-14 18:15:47 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213016 Student who came into program with very little math was able to succeed at exam after studying all summer. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213222 2022-04-14 18:15:58 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213222 Accommodations not well-managed https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213226 2022-04-14 18:15:59 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213226 Exams can be inconsistent regarding the level of difficulty, and the material covered. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213250 2022-04-14 18:16:00 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213250 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213283 Some students will be eliminated from a program because they are unable to preform on an exam when they would be capable of doing a project.]]> 2022-04-14 18:16:02 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213283 They provide grad programs with an opportunity/excuse to remove students from the program https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213462 2022-04-14 18:16:11 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213462 Very difficult and stressful. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213744 2022-04-14 18:16:28 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213744 unpublished pass/fail standards https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213796 2022-04-14 18:16:31 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213796 I was forced to learn analysis, which was ultimately extremely useful in my research career. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213954 2022-04-14 18:16:41 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213954 After failing exam several times, finally found some major background/skills deficits that were worked on and led to a pass on the exam https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213968 2022-04-14 18:16:42 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144213968 Stressful for students, for a variety of reasons. Can be especially stressful for those who may have test anxieties or undiagnosed learning disabilities such as dyslexia. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214163 2022-04-14 18:16:54 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214163 Forced to study for exams while taking courses instead of doing reading groups/ beginning research. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214182 2022-04-14 18:16:55 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214182 high stakes exams do not represent research potential https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214304 2022-04-14 18:17:01 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214304 edraygoins https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214343 I've seen some faculty who wrote the exam based on topics they found interesting, instead of writing the exam based on topics outlined in the graduate handbook! (E.g.: in Algebra, problems on composition of quadratic forms instead of groups, rings, fields, etc.)]]> 2022-04-14 18:17:03 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214343 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214381 I passed them even though I didn't think I would, giving me some confidence in my abilities (which should come internally or from some other source of validation, but what can I say, the exams did do this for me).]]> 2022-04-14 18:17:05 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214381 Extends the time it takes to start research and transition to what doing a PhD is really about https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214442 2022-04-14 18:17:09 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214442 I witnessed several health complications due to stress emily_winn https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214503 Weight gain/loss, stress related ulcers, sleep deprivation, mental health deterioration, for exams that don't matter once they are finished.]]> 2022-04-14 18:17:13 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214503 Often there are too many of them. My students don't need to know measure theory! https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214535 2022-04-14 18:17:15 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214535 Helps guide students study in order to build a baseline set of knowledge before beginning research. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214743 In reality, the pressure of the exam structure meant that I rarely felt at liberty to really dig deeply into what I was learning. I was always working towards the exam rather than understanding.]]> 2022-04-14 18:17:26 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214743 Creates hierarchy among students, between those who passed fast and those who didn't https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214953 2022-04-14 18:17:38 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144214953 https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215021 I still dream that I have to take prelims! Or that I have to write one and then take it and I fail it ... so... definitely stressful.]]> 2022-04-14 18:17:42 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215021 Not sure that it is a good measure (at my institution at least) of whether or not a student is capable of doing research and writing a dissertation. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215155 2022-04-14 18:17:50 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215155 A relatively easy/fast way to assess grit in math https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215187 2022-04-14 18:17:53 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215187 edraygoins https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215311 I've seen students who gained confidence in passing an exam right away for a topic they thought they didn't actually know that well. This was a big boost in deciding to work in that area afterwards.]]> 2022-04-14 18:18:01 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215311 unrelated to research https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215497 2022-04-14 18:18:11 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215497 Timed exams are not objective in general, known to be highly biased https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215807 2022-04-14 18:18:29 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144215807 success does not necessarily correlate with research ability https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216020 2022-04-14 18:18:41 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216020 Students who could otherwise be successful are kicked out of the program for not passing them https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216455 2022-04-14 18:19:03 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216455 edraygoins https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216562 I've seen some students stress out over passing an exam in one area that was completely different from the area they we going to work in. To be more specific, I saw one student struggle several times to pass the Abstract Algebra exam -- nearly getting kicked out of the program! -- although he was going to work in mathematical biology.]]> 2022-04-14 18:19:10 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216562 heightens the toxic hyper-competitive environment of grad school "ohh I passed and this person didn't" etc https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216604 2022-04-14 18:19:13 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216604 I know students who were pushed out of programs (or an attempt was made to push them out) because they were denied disability accommodations for qualifying courses and then blamed by the DGS when they fell behind the standard schedule for passing exams. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216975 2022-04-14 18:19:36 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144216975 Allow students more time than just the time of the class. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144217936 2022-04-14 18:20:37 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144217936 unclear why they have to be timed and in-person when we're already comfortable giving take-home exams for grad courses https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144221660 2022-04-14 18:24:22 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144221660 Often the subjects are limited https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144224789 2022-04-14 18:27:25 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144224789 encouraged me to learn some advanced material earlier, e.g. I initially didn't want to take the analysis qual and then decided to go for it and it forced me to learn functional analysis earlier (my current area of research) https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144229071 2022-04-14 18:31:40 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144229071 I learned the material at a greater depth after spending the time studying for the exams. There was also some soul searching of "Do I really want this?" https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144276438 2022-04-14 19:19:47 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144276438 Students realised that our abstract algebra exam would always have a Sylow theorem question, so the committee chose to stop writing that topic into the exam to try to keep students from getting an upper hand. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144354836 2022-04-14 21:06:16 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144354836 I had passed 3/4 exams but in one subject I attempted the exam four times over two years and was unable to pass despite devoting months of effort to studying and making great progress to my understanding of the subject. Finally, I took a different class for a subject (even further) outside my research area and passed that exam on the first try. They are clearly not written or graded to the same level across subject areas. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144357165 2022-04-14 21:10:08 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144357165 I do not know a single person with a disability who has not suffered at the hands of the qualifying exam structure. I have watched as dyslexic classmates leave the program, as ADHD classmates suffer for years before being forced out with a Master's. I struggle with ADHD and I suffered for years in the qual system before narrowly completing my last exam within the extended time frame granted after appealing to the department for more time. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144360102 2022-04-14 21:15:57 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144360102 I possibly only know much about a Mycielskian construction because of studying for the graph theory qual, and very recently I was able to identify a confusing graph structure in my research thanks to recognising that it was somehow similar to a Mycielskian. https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144362643 2022-04-14 21:20:18 UTC https://padlet.com/emily_winn/vchzwakuafkfn385/wish/2144362643