Athena and Telemachus's Oratory Skills Bl 6 by Kelly Carlin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw How does the dialogue and narration show their development in the art of persuasion? en-us 2021-03-15 15:51:02 UTC 2025-09-28 20:12:13 UTC hello@padlet.com NYT Op-ed reading kelly_carlin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311408064 2021-03-15 15:53:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311408064 aaliyakhanna https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311747619 Telemachus was mostly concerned about his mom finding out about his journey as well as suitors making his mother marry them. Throughout books 1 and 2, Telemachus describes how horrible the suitors are. Additionally, Eurycleia says that if he leaves, the suitors will scheme against him and carve his birthright into pieces. I chose the song "Never Gonna Give You Up" because Telemachus doesn't want to give up his mother to unruly suitors.

]]> 2021-03-15 16:53:43 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311747619 lauren_koester https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311751411 On his journey, Telemachus is most concerned with the fate of his father. He intends to sail to both Sparta and Pylos in order to learn what he can of Odysseus' journey. He hopes to find that his father is alive and making his way home to his family. If this is not the case, then he will know to assume the role of his father at home. 
A song choice that embodies the sacrifice made by Telemachus in his journey to find his father would be The Cave by Mumford & Sons. The song lyric, "And I'll find strength in pain/ And I will change my ways/I'll know my name as it's called again," embodies the story of the Odyssey as a journey of pain. Telemachus knows that he is risking death by embarking on this journey, but he feels a sense of duty to his father. ]]> 2021-03-15 16:54:23 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311751411 angelica_marin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311752290 Telemachus is most concerned about the suitor situation at his palace. Many of the suitors were angry when Telemachus finally defended himself and his mother, and their reactions led to him worry about his mother's safety as well. Leaving his mother alone while going on a search for his father would leave Penelope in an unsafe situation, where any of the suitors could easily get to her. A song that relates to this situation is "Farewell" by Rhianna. This song is about a situation in which the narrator is having trouble letting go of an important person in their life, and the narrator (Penelope) wants to follow them (Telemachus on his journey), but can't, because they are on a path to better their life. ]]> 2021-03-15 16:54:33 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311752290 qianxue_ge https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311752573 Telemachus is most concerned with the suitors and that if he left to look for his father the suitors would  be violent and force Penelope to marry with one of them. This apprehension was being furthered by Antinuous' caveat that they will continue devouring his wealth until his mother decides to keep her promise. In this case, Telemachus was especially longing for his fathers' return to kill these suitors. A song that could represent Telemachus' feelings is "Come Home" by OneRepublic. The repetition of the lyric "come home" corresponds to Telemachus' will for Odysseus to come home and protect him and his mother.]]> 2021-03-15 16:54:36 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311752573 keira_young https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311753317 Telemachus is most concerned with leaving his mother behind with the hundred suitors as guests in their home. There is the constant underlying notion that Odysseus might be dead, but both Telemachus and Penelope find this impossible to believe. The song Calypso by John Denver, based on The Odyssey, does an excellent job of incorporating all of these feelings and ideas. Telemachus does not know where he needs to go, and that idea scares him. The line, “To live on the land we must learn from the sea,” which Denver sings, furthers the idea that Telemachus must leave Ithaca in search of his father. Leaving his desolate mother behind is scary for the young man, but he knows that he must embark on his journey.

]]> 2021-03-15 16:54:44 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311753317 keira_young https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311754426 Telemachus first began to develop clear oratory skills and confidence around line 200 while speaking with Athena: “Enough. Tell me about yourself now, clearly, point by point.” (Fagle, 83). Moving forward, a few pages later, while at the house surrounded by his mother’s suitors “Telemachus took command” (Fagle, 89). He screamed, “You suitors who plague my mother” (Fagle, 89). There was an anger being incited within him, bubbling over to the point of tears. Fagle describes, “Filled with anger, down on the ground he dashed the speaker’s scepter- bursting into tears.” (Fagle, 95). However angered he may have been at the surplus of suitors for his mother, Telemachus was able to realize the importance and took a stand: “If I hear he’s [Odysseus] is not longer among the living, then back I’ll come to the native land I love… and give my mother to another husband.” (Fagle, 100). Although this was certainly something he didn’t want to have to do, upon realizing the reality of the situation, Telemachus gained enough confidence to give this speech. Finally, at the end of Book 2 when Athena and Telemachus departed on his journey, Telemachus “sat close beside her [Athena]” (Fagle, 106). This physical and mental closeness with a goddess shows the growth in Telemachus’ confidence and overall oratory skills.

]]> 2021-03-15 16:54:58 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311754426 keira_young https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311756140 Pallas Athena, the daughter of Zeus, is very clearly persuasive and powerful. Opening Book 1, Athena convinces Zeus to help Odysseus: “Sparkling-eyed Athena drove the matter home” (Fagle, 79). By employing craftful pathos, Athena is able to convince many that she is correct. Within her first conversation with Telemachus, she assures him that his father is “still alive somewhere in this wide world” (Fagle, 83). It was Athena’s idea to “drive these suitors from your [Telemachus’] walls” (Fagle, 86). This persuasion conclusively led to the embarkment of Telemachus on his journey. Pulling at Telemachus’ heartstrings she preaches, “Few sons are the equals of their fathers” (Fagle, 102). Athena knows all too well how much Telemachus looks up to and respects his father, so this sentiment persuades Telemachus to leave. Then, Athena plans the voyage. From the secret plan to the basic necessities, Athena creates the means for Telemachus to leave. “Gather beside our ship at nightfall,” Athena tells the crew (Fagle, 105). With this last planned step, Athena was able to artfully persuade Zeus to allow for Odysseus to be saved and then convince Telemachus to go save him. This uneasy feat evidently demonstrates Athena’s talent in the art of persuasion.

]]> 2021-03-15 16:55:16 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311756140 keira_young https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311757709 Translator Robert Fagle does an excellent job of painting a vivid picture of Telemachus and his journey. There is much to be inferred about all of the characters through the countless literary techniques and rhetorical choices Fagle makes. For example, why is this portrayal of Telemachus’ masculinity vital to the narrative? How would a female be described in this situation? The inner thoughts of the characters are also up to interpretation. To what extent was Telemachus’ hope of his father’s return valid or invalid? What effects did this have on Telemachus and his plans for the future? And finally, the complex relationships each character has with one another, both immortal to immortal, mortal to mortal, and immortal to mortal. How is Telemachus and Penelope’s relationship developed as more details and context are revealed to the reader? How is Athena able to convince Zeus to help Odysseus? Why is Athena so willing to aid Telemachus in his journey? This questions are all vital for the reader to consider during one’s reading experience in Books 1 and 2.

]]> 2021-03-15 16:55:34 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311757709 yurika_sakai https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311761467 Telemachus is most concerned with leaving his mother behind in the presence of hundreds of greedy suitors. They had been taking advantage of his father's disappearance even while Telemachus was still ruling the home, and Telemachus fears that if he leaves, the suitors will run his palace to ruins. A song that describes Telemachus' concern is "Gone, gone, gone" by Phillip Phillips. The line, "when enemies are at your door, I'll carry you way from war" embodies how Telemachus struggles to leave his mother and wants to protect her from the ruthless world. ]]> 2021-03-15 16:56:11 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311761467 caleighradzin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311764676 Telemachus is most concerned with the situation of the suitors whilst on his journey. Because the suitors were so aggressively adamant about not letting Penelope find Odysseus once again, by leaving Penelope at home with the suitors without protection from Telemachus, Penelope becomes vulnerable. One song I feel accurately describes this fear is "Class of 2013" by the artist Mitski. In Mitski's song, she sings about her vulnerability and her fear of leaving her mother's side. For example, Mitski sings "Mom, is it alright If I stay for a year or two?" which parallels Telemachus' reservations about leaving his mother in fear that she could be in danger. Ultimately, Telemachus is most concerned with the situation of the suitors, and more specifically how him leaving his mother alone with the suitors could render her vulnerable.]]> 2021-03-15 16:56:45 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311764676 Nina Clark https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311766166 Telemachus is most concerned about his mother's suitors and their indecent manner in which they have been behaving on his father's estate. He wants to rid them from the palace and let his mother live peacefully, hanging onto the small hope that her husband might one day return alive. However, he finds difficulty in doing so, as these suitors are adamant about Penelope marrying one of them as was agreed to. ]]> 2021-03-15 16:57:02 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311766166 Cece Tauber cecelia_tauber https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311768219 Whilst on his journey, Telemachus is concerned with the condition and fate of his father, as well as leaving his mother back home. This means that while he is anxious to get on with his adventure to find his stranded father, he worries deeply about his vulnerable mother (surrounded by eager suitors). A song to describe his journey is "A Thousand Miles" by Vanessa Carlton. This is because Telemachus is aware of the long and intense journey needed to be taken in order to find his father, a trip of a "thousand miles"]]> 2021-03-15 16:57:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311768219 Telemachus arjunkishore https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311771184 Telemachus is most concerned with his father on his journey. It's the purpose behind his adventure and the source of all the anxiety in his life can be sourced back to the lack of his father. The song that this could be similar to is  "Remember My Name" by Mitski Mitski, which is about how we all simply want to be remembered, whether it be by a person or monument. ]]> 2021-03-15 16:57:57 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311771184 anneroth1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311772446 What was Homer's purpose in having Athena be the goddess to directly help Telemachus? Why does Athena disguise herself as Odysseus's old friends? Would Telemachus be as opt to listen to Athena's advice if she didn't disguise herself? If Telemachus had his father physically with him for more of his childhood do you think he would have been more or less or equally driven to go out on his own to find him? Should Penelope still practice xenia towards the suitors even though they are taken advantage of the custom? Does Penelope have such high hopes for Odysseus's return simply because he is her husband or because of his own character?]]> 2021-03-15 16:58:11 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311772446 Lance Bernstein lance_bernstein https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311773545 Telemachus is most concerned with news of his father on his journey, seeing as it is the true purpose of his quest given to him from Athena herself, and his anxiety of the suitors tearing apart his home roots from Odysseus' disappearance. Clearly, Telemachus is concerned about both leaving his mother behind with the suitors and about finding bad news of his father. This most reminds me of the U2 song "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For," a most apt song title for Telemachus' journey. A lyric that describes Telemachus' journey, or at least what we can suspect of it, is "I have climbed highest mountains
I have run through the fields
Only to be with you" (U2). This lyric describes the journey to find the person that the singer longs for, just as Telemachus longs for his father.]]> 2021-03-15 16:58:22 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311773545 fallonmartin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311777376 Telemachus was most concerned about leaving his mother behind especially because of the unruly suitors she must deal with. He also fears that she will learn too quickly of his voyage to Pylos because he didn't want her to worry or feel sadden by him leaving. This concern can be viewed in the song "Hard Sometimes" by Ruel as it encompasses the feeling of being on the road while you miss home and the people that made it special. One of the lines is "I'm waking up my mind I'm ripping off the blinds" which explains an immediate change similar to when Telemachus decides he must leave urgently without his mother knowing. The song emulates a great change of environment the artist must deal with and it is the same for Telemachus. Furthermore the song includes that the world is different and the same at once explaining that "the world back there Keeps spinning 'round without me." For Telemachus the world will continue spinning the same at the palace where his mother is left alone while he must venture on a journey. Overall "Hard Sometimes" radiates a sensation of being out of touch which Telemachus fears when concerning his mother.]]> 2021-03-15 16:59:05 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311777376 caijain https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311784288 Telemachus is most concerned with leaving his mother at the sides of the suitors while he embarks on the journey. It is solely the thought of leaving his mother with the suitors that causes him express caution or anxiousness regarding his journey. When the suitors hail him with insults and remind him of the difficulties he may face stating that he "just might drown," he simply walks away; however, when the suitors return to Odysseus' palace, he proceeds to plead with the gods. I chose Miley Cyrus' "Party in the U.S.A." since the song shows an accurate representation of Telemachus' future journey as well as the fear he has before it. Just  At first, he's afraid to leave what he knows behind since he doesn't want to leave his mom. When he takes the steps to travel, he, just like Miley, will be "noddin' his head like yeah," as he embarks on his new journey.]]> 2021-03-15 17:00:18 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311784288 saiuri_parimi https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311784857 Telemachus is most concerned with the suitors at his house. The suitors at his house refuse to leave his house until after Penelope (his mother) marries one of them. The suitors are very stubborn and adamant about one of them marrying Penelope. Even after telling the suitors to leave many times, they refuse. He might be worried about what the suitors could do when he is gone, like forcibly marry his mother or other things they wouldn't do in the presence of him. This can be described by the song "The Show Must Go On" by Queen. Link to audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKLMYZlbIb8


]]> 2021-03-15 17:00:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311784857 austin_oconnell1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311788563 Telemachus is most concerned about his mother finding about his journey and worrying about him. Telemachus journey makes me think about the song Float On because of the fact Telemachus is travling by boat. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTAud5O7Qqk  

]]> 2021-03-15 17:01:00 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311788563 angelica_marin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311812394 In both books 1 and 2, there are clear turning points in which Telemachus is seen becoming a courageous and proud man. For example, on lines 369-370, after Athena left Telemachus' palace, she "left his spirit filled with nerve and courage,
charged with his father’s memory more than ever now". By reminding Telemachus of his father and reminding him of his bravery, he was able to channel that same bravery in himself. Similarly, on line 438 "Telemachus declared" that the suitors must leave immediately, which was the first time he addressed them with pride and confidence. In Book 2, the day after Athena visited, on line 37, "the boy could sit no longer- [he was] fired up to speak", again displaying a newfound confidence. He spoke to the suitors, and on line 69, he tells them: "You should be ashamed of yourselves", directly calling them out for their terrible behavior towards his mother, Penelope. After some of the suitors reacted angrily, "with calm good sense Telemachus replied" on line 144. Only an immensely strong man could stay calm after a group of men insulted and threatened his mother. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:05:02 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311812394 5 Examples arjunkishore https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311817183 "... not even if someone, somewhere, says he's coming home." (B1 195)
"'Oh stranger,' heedful Telemachus replied, 'indeed I will.'"(B1 352)
"Courage mother. Harden your heart and listen."(B1 405)
"But cool-headed Telemachus countered firmly."(B1 445)
"I'll stop at nothing to hurl destruction at your heads"(B2 350)]]> 2021-03-15 17:05:46 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311817183 austin_oconnell1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311820195 Telemachus devolps his confidence by becoming more confdient in conversation. In book one Athena had to press Telemachus to tell her his story. This is shown when Athena says,"But come please tell me about yourself now, point by point."(238-239). Even after being pressed Telemachus is described as answering Athenas questions"cautiously".(247) In contrast in book 2 Telemauchus is seen taking charge of his won destiny instead of being apporached by Athena to seek out his father. Telemachus is described as taking an active role in the conversation with his men when the book describes him as follows,"the boy could sit no longer fired up to speak, he took his stand."(35-36) Telemachus confidence is further displayed when he confronts his mothers suitors asseratvily and says,"You should be ashmaed of yourselves, mortfied in the face of neghbors living round about."(line 69-70) Telemauchus tone of voice is described as more"firm"(line 233) in book 2. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:06:17 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311820195 lauren_koester https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311821126 1. Telemachus proclaims to his mother that he "hold[s] the reins of power in this house," demonstrating that he is of increased confidence and willing to step into the role of his father (Fagles, 89). 
2. Telemachus demonstrates increased confidence in commanding his mother's suitors to leave. When he finishes speaking, "they all bit their lips, amazed the prince oudl speak with so much daring" (Fagles, 90). 
3. In the beginning of book two, Telemachus is described as "the true son of Odysseus" (93). Odysseus being a homeric hero, this indicates that Telemachus emulates his bravery and heroism.
4. When addressing Eurymachus, Telemachus is described as "firm in his resolve," demonstrating his determination and confidence in proposing his journey (Fagles, 99). 
5. Telemachus expresses confidence in proclaiming that "there's a god who made this plan," indicating he has faith that the gods will guide his journey (Fagles, 105). ]]> 2021-03-15 17:06:27 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311821126 an_suzuki https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311822303 Telemachus is most concerned with leaving behind his mother around the suitors. Since Penelope had continuously delayed choosing who she will marry by fooling the suitors, they are now aggressive and adamant to ensure that a choice will be made. Therefore, Telemachus believes that once he leaves for Pylos, no one will be there to defend his mother and she will end up being forced to marry one of them against her will. A song that can be used to describe his concern for his mother is "I never wanna lose you" by Teqkoi and Snow. This song discusses loving someone very much and not wanting to let them go. This perfectly describes Telemachus' concern with the journey as he deeply cares for his mother and does not want lose her. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:06:40 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311822303 caroline_liu1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311824785 Telemachus is the most concerned about leaving his mother to find Odysseus since Penelope will be left alone to try and fend for herself against the harassing suitors. While Telemachus has his own curiosities, his main concern is his mother and his protectiveness over his mother is put on full display in these first few books. Telemachus also puts on a calm and brave face in from of the suitors, but breaks down in front of the gods, trying to hide his vulnerability from his adversaries. In the song "IDK you yet" by Alexander 23, he talks about needing someone despite not knowing who they are, which is very similar to Telemachus where he needs to find his father, but barely knows Odysseus. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:07:05 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311824785 five examples caleighradzin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311831991 1- Telemachus' speaking is described as being both "poised" and "sharp" whilst speaking to Penelope (13).
2- Telemachus takes charge while speaking to the suitors, saying "You suitors who plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening.." (14).
3- Telemachus' developing confidence is exemplified when the suitors were described as being  "amazed the prince could speak with so much daring" (15).
4- Telemachus is described as speaking "shrewdly," which further exemplifies his astuteness and position of power while speaking (16).
5- Telemachus' developing confidence is highlighted when Antinous exclaims, "so high and mighty, Telemachus—such unbridled rage!" (21).]]> 2021-03-15 17:08:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311831991 fallonmartin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311835184 Telemachus oratory skills and confidence really seems to blossom when and after he meets Athena. When his first meets Athena he says strictly "Who are you? where are you from? your city?..."(83). Telemachus shows command as he demands answers from Athena. Later on he tells his mother "go back to your quarters", which shows that he has gained confidence as usually it is a mother that orders their son around (89). Before Athena, Telemachus was silent towards his guest but after he shouts "You must leave my palace," displaying attributes of a king (89). Telemachus becomes even more confident as he gets ready to speak with the suitors, with "the elders making way as he took his father seat"(93). Telemachus sitting on Odysseus' throne shows that he is beginning to feel worthy of such a position where before he stayed silent. Finally Telemachus shows his power and assertive through a forceful gesture: "down on the ground he dashed the speaker's scepter" (95). This effectively made the audience sit silently, conveying his newfound confidence through power.]]> 2021-03-15 17:08:53 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311835184 aaliyakhanna https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311836248 1) "And young Telemachus cautiously replied..." (line 247, page 84) 
- shows how he wasn't confident and preferred to remain in the background of all the suitors. 
2) "Oh stranger,' heedful Telemachus replied, 'indeed I will." (page 87, lines 352-353)
 - This shows how, with the assistance of Athena, Telemachus is going to stand up for himself and his mother, and shows the development of his confidence. 
3) "So, mother, go back to your quarters..." (page 89, line 409-410)  - This shows how he has established confidence and has realized his power and his command. 
4) "the boy could sit no longer--fired up to speak, he took his stand among the gathered men." (page 94, lines 37-38) 
 - Telemachus now commands all the suitors, telling them to leave his mother alone. The use of imperative sentences in his speech suggests he is using a powerful and commanding tone, trying to stop the suitors from disagreeing with him or disrespecting him. 
5)  "disguised as the prince, the goddess roamed through town, pausing beside each likely crewman, giving orders." (page 105, lines 423-424) 
- This shows how Telemachus was uncertain how to carry out his plan and get crewman to join him on his journey, so, even though he was seen being confident earlier, he still needed help from Athena to remain powerful and commanding.]]> 2021-03-15 17:09:06 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311836248 jonahmacarios https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311840727 Telemachus is most concerned about leaving his mother on Ithaca among a persistent group of suitors that are exploiting the situation. The suitors have grown increasingly impatient and aggressive as Penelope has stalled her imminent marriage to one of the suitors. Telemachus is worried that with his trip to Pylos, no one will be there to defend his beloved mother. He is faced with an extremely tough situation due to the fact that on one hand he longs a journey that is encouraged by Athena, whereas on the other side he wants to protect his mother from the dangers of the men. I think that a good song to describe this situation would be the song "We are the Champions"  by Queen. This may seem like a strange choice, however I believe that Telemachus needs the confidence, courage and self reassurance from Athena to get him through this tough dilemma of leaving his mother behind.]]> 2021-03-15 17:09:47 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311840727 Nina Clark https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311845021 "And they all bit their lips,
amazed the prince could speak with so much daring"  (438-439). In this quote, it is evident that others see this change in confidence in Telemachus and that they are shocked by it. A few lines later, he continues to develop his skills, "Telemachus countered firmly" (445), which shows him growing more comfortable with his oratory skills and standing up for himself.  He also was described as talking "shrewdly" (494), further showing his astuteness. Aegiptyus also claims that whoever called the assembly was "a brave man," (60) which shows how Telemachus is getting bolder with his actions, which reflects his confidence in himself, much inspired by Athena. Finally, after Antinous fires back at Telemachus and expresses hatred for Penelope, Telemachus replied "with calm good sense," (144) which again expresses his confidence in himself and his ability to rebuke Antinous in a calm and reserved manner. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:10:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311845021 anneroth1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311845195 Telemachus is most afraid of leaving his mother behind with an army of suitors while he ventures for his father to bring their family back together. I can connect this song to "Afraid" by the Neighbourhood because the song as a whole is about anxiety and paranoia which Telemachus can relate to leading up to his journey. A reoccurring lyric in this song is "When I wake up, I'm afraid / Somebody else might take my place". Telemachus is afraid partly to that one of this suitors will end up marrying his mother and his father will be replaced by them.]]> 2021-03-15 17:10:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311845195 Lance Bernstein lance_bernstein https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311855355 1. "met her with winged words: 'Greetings stranger! Here in our house you'll find a royal welcome" (B1 144).
2. "'No comfort's left for us ... not even if someone, somewhere, says he's coming home. The day of his return will never dawn'" (B1 194).
3. "'Now, think of the most unlucky mortal ever born--- since you ask me, yes, they say I am his son'" (B1 254).
4. "'Bards are not to blame-- Zeus is to blame. He deals to each and every laborer on this earth whatever doom he pleases ... Odysseus was scarcely the only one, you know, whose journey home was blotted out at Troy'" (B1 401). 
5.  “‘a worse disaster will grind my house down … we have no man like Odysseus in command to drive this curse from the house. We ourselves? We’re hardly the ones to fight them off. All we’d do is parade our wretched wickedness’” (B2 63).]]> 2021-03-15 17:11:36 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311855355 lauren_koester https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311856186 1- Athena proclaims that "any man of sense who chanced among them would be outraged, seeing such behavior" (Fagles, 85) exploiting Telemachus' annoyance with his mother's suitors. 
2- Athena urges Telemachus to "take [her] words to heart," dispelling any doubt Telemachus may have (Fagles, 86). 
3- Athena tells Telemachus that "it all rests with you," imbuing him with a sense of duty (Fagles, 87). 
4- When Telemachus prays for a successful journey, Athena "urged him on with winning words," demonstrating her ability to persuade Telemachus to follow through with his journey (Fagles, 102). 
5-  Athena's success in persuading Telemachus to embark on his journey is demonstrated as "Pallas Athena sped away in the lead" (Fagles, 106).

]]> 2021-03-15 17:11:44 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311856186 Ambika Grover ambikagrover https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311863861 Telemachus is most concerned with the state of the palace while he voyages on his quest. Upon declaring his dismay upon a crowd of soldiers, Telemachus questions their integrity for throwing themselves at his mother’s feet. The suitors, however, express how they are unwilling to claim any responsibility and attempt to suggest that Penelope is, in fact, “leading them on.” Telemachus realizes that perhaps these suitors are relentless and that going on a journey to find his father does not entail he comes back to what he hopes to see. Such sentiments are echoed by an old woman who stops Telemachus, warning, “these brutes here, just wait, the moment you’re gone they’ll all be scheming against you” (104). Telemachus’ inner struggle of leaving his mother alone with these “brutes” while also feeling an obligation to find his father is pulling him in two different directions. Telemachus’ reaction to the fate of his hometown reminds me of “Shake it Off,” where the lyrics say, “And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate /  I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake / I shake it off, I shake it off.” Telemachus simply can’t let himself be too bothered by the suitors, or he will never be successful in fulfilling Athena’s quest. 


]]> 2021-03-15 17:13:09 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311863861 yurika_sakai https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311867778 1. After meeting with Athena, Telemachus orders the suitors, "you must leave my palace!" (Fagles 89). Until this point, Telemachus was afraid of the suitors' retaliation, but now he has become confident enough to give them an order that they do not want to hear.
2. When suitors tried to counter Telemachus' orders, the "cool-headed Telemachus countered firmly" (Fagles 90). Fagles describes Telemachus as having control of the situation, even when it seems he is facing opposition.
3. When Telemachus strode into the meeting hall, "the people all gazed in wonder" (Fagles 93). Telemachus has developed so much confidence that his presence is striking and unrecognizable by the council. 
4. When the suitors tried to discourage Telemachus from embarking on his journey, "self-possessed Telemachus drew the line" (Fagles 103). This conveys how Telemachus no longer fears opposition and controls his own fate.
5. Embarking on the journey, "Telemachus shouted out commands to all his shipmates" and they all "sprang to orders" (Fagles 106). The quick response of the shipmates conveys how Telemachus perfectly suits his newfound position of leadership.]]> 2021-03-15 17:13:48 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311867778 lindsay_geary https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311874665 1. "Odysseus' son rejoices; the boy could sit no longer- fired up to speak, he took his stand among the gathered man." (pg 94) He was becoming very passionate about this which lead to a load of confidence and oratory skills. 
2. After Antinous aggressively countered Telemachus, "But with calm good sense Telemachus replied..." (pg 97). Showing off his way with words and staying confident in what he thought.
3. When Athena directly states, "Telemachus, you'll lack neither courage nor sense from this day on, not if your father's spirit courses through your veins." (pg 102), giving him a reason to take on a new identity full of confidence.
4. In his response to Eurymachus, he holds a sensible and controlled opinion on what he must do, "Now if I hear my fathers alive and heading home, hard-pressed as I am, I'll brave out one more year. If I hear he's dead..." (pg 100)
5. Right once they got on the boat, Telemachus starting commanding, "ruffling over the wine-dark sea as Telemachus shouted out commands to all his shipmates: 'All lay hands to tackle!'" (pg 106)]]> 2021-03-15 17:15:01 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311874665 Cece Tauber cecelia_tauber https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311877781 1. "You must leave my palace! See your feasting elsewhere..." (Homer P 89, L 430)
2. "He led the way and Pallas Athena followed." (Homer, P 81, L 147)
3. "And they all bit their lips,
amazed the prince could speak with so much daring"  (P 90, L 438-439)
4. "They're piled in the palace now. My mother knows nothing of this. No servants either." (P 106, L452,435)
5. P88, L397) "Zeus is to blame. He deals to each and every laborer on this earth whatever doom he pleases."-
Over time, Telemachus becomes more vocal about his beliefs. Additionally, he takes on the role as a captain, a "man of the house" and a town leader like his father was. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:15:34 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311877781 qianxue_ge https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311882625 Telemachus has became more courageous and confident throughout Books 1 and 2. In the beginning of Book 1, Telemachus sits with the suitors, dreaming with grief towards his and his mother's situation: "if only he might drop from the clouds and drive these suitors all in a rout throughout the halls..." (1.135-136). At this point, he is hoping for his father to return and save his palace. Next, he complains to Athena, "Soon--you wait--they'll grind me down as well" (1.293). In this scene, Telemachus is hopeless and despair towards the situation. However, after Athena has advised him with the next steps that he should take, he grew to be more confident. For example, he stated, "But I'll cry out to the everlasting gods in hopes that Zeus will pay you back with a vengeance" (1.435-1.436). This shows that Telemachus still doesn't have power to defense himself and the palace, but he has confidence in the Gods and believe that they will help him. Afterwards, Telemachus also confronted with Eurymachus, who questions the omen and Telemachus' behavior. The narration used to describe Telemachus is "firm in his resolve," which shows his determination and confidence that he is doing the right thing. Finally, Telemachus placates his nurse with the phrase "courage, old woman" (2.410). This displays his confidence in the Gods and his belief that everything will go well.]]> 2021-03-15 17:16:25 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311882625 5 Examples arjunkishore https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311883608 "Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king!"(B1 95)
"As for the ties between your father and myself, we've been friends forever I'm proud to say."(B1 225)
"'Still,' the clear-eyed goddess reassured him, 'trust me...'"(B1 265)
"You must not cling to your boyhood any longer- it's time you were a man."(B1 341)
"... brave out one more year."(B1 331)]]> 2021-03-15 17:16:35 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311883608 angelica_marin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311887588 1. Athena convinced Telemachus to stand up against the suitors AND to find his father by saying on line 296 of book 1: "Oh how much you need odysseus, gone so ling- how he'd lay hands on all these brazen suitors!"
2. Athena is able to help Telemachus gain confidence by planning his trip out on line 320 of book 1: "For you, I have some good advice, if only you will accept it...." (Cont. until line 335). 
3. Athena uses familiar faces and voices to make Telemachus feel more comfortable. For example, on line 300 of book 2 "Athena came to his prayer from close at hand,
for all the world with Mentor’s build and voice". 
4. Athena compares Telemachus to his father again, in order to make him feel more powerful and brave. Ex/ line 302 Book 2: "Telemachus,
you’ll lack neither courage nor sense from this day on,
not if your father’s spirit courses through your veins— "
5. Athena uses a similar technique of offering help and planning again in Book 2 line 322 "But get your rations ready, pack them all in vessels, the wine in jars, and barley-meal—the marrow of men’s bones— in durable skins, while I make rounds in town and quickly enlist your crew of volunteers." (Cont. until 329)]]> 2021-03-15 17:17:18 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311887588 an_suzuki https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311888936 1. When he scolds his mother after she asks the bard to stop singing The Archaeans' Journey Home from Troy: "So, mother, go back to your quarters... As for giving order, men will see to that... I hold the reins of power in this house" (89).
2. When a suitor, Antinous, compared his newfound confidence to that of a God: "Well, Telemachus, only the gods could teach you to sound so high and mighty!" (90).
3. When he arises from bed, appearing like a God: "the true son of Odysseus sprang from bed and dressed... he slung his well-honed sword, fastened rawhide sandals.. handsome as a god" (93).
4. When he responds to Antinous' insult to his mother with "calm good sense" (97).
5. When Telemachus gave his commands on the ship: "Come, friends, get the rations aboard!" (106).]]> 2021-03-15 17:17:33 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311888936 mia_cernigliaro https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311893678 Telemachus is most concerned about leaving his mother alone with all of the gluttonous and greedy suitors. With him gone, they’ll be free to wreak havoc in Odysseus’ palace. He wishes to let his mother live peacefully and bring back her husband for her, an extremely risky task considering how large the pursuit for Penelope’s hand in marriage has become and the fact that Penelope has already promised that she will marry eventually. A song that fits Telemachus’ troubles is “How Far I’ll Go” by Auliʻi Cravalho from the Disney movie “Moana”. In the song Moana talks about the sea calling her, as if it has a mission for her, saying “See the line where the sky meets the sea? It calls me And no one knows How far it goes If the wind in my sail on the sea stays behind me One day I'll know.” However, despite Moana’s desire to go out to sea and fulfill her life’s purpose, familial matters keep her planted at home, as she is scared to leave her family and the island she knows best, stating that “If I go, there's just no telling how far I'll go,”. This lines up perfectly with Telemachus’ desire to go and find his father, but is hesitant to do so because of family issues back home.]]> 2021-03-15 17:18:25 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311893678 five examples caleighradzin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311896801 1- Athena states that Telemachus should "take [her] words to heart," appealing to the empathy of Telemachus and appealing to the ideal of Pathos (11).
2- While speaking to Zeus, Athena refers to him saying, "“Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king!" which emphasizes a sense of flattery, further persuading Zeus to take her opinion into account (5).
3- Athena's professional stature and tone also helps her persuade people, as illustrated when she is described as having a "Mentor’s build and voice," (26).
4- In a similar sense, Athena tells Telemachus "I have some good advice, if only you will accept it," which manipulates the listener into thinking that the only thing keeping them from success is themselves, further persuading them to take the advice (11).
5- Athena's looks could also be considered a means of persuasion, her eyes described as being "sparkling" which would most likely entrance mortal onlookers and push them to heed her advice.]]> 2021-03-15 17:18:59 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311896801 Ambika ambikagrover https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311903083
  • “[U]ntil discreet Telemachus took command: ‘You suitors who plague my mother, you, you insolent overweening… ‘“ (89). 
  • “But cool-headed Telemachus countered firmly: ‘Antinous, even though my words may offend you, I’d be happy to take the crown if Zeus presents it. You think that nothing worse could befall a man? It’s really not so bad to be a king’” (90). 
  • “‘Eurymachus,’ Telemachus answered shrewdly… ‘I no longer trust in rumors– rumors from the blue– nor bother with any prophecy’” (91). 
  • “But self-possessed Telemachus drew the line: ‘Antinous, now how could I dine with you in peace and take my pleasure? You ruffians carousing here!’” (103). 
  • “‘Courage, old woman,’ thoughtful Telemachus tried to reassure her, ‘there’s a god who made this plan’” (105). 

    • ]]>     2021-03-15 17:20:06 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311903083     Cai caijain https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311903529 1.)" ...Telemachus, head close to Athena's sparkling eyes, spoke low to his guest so no one else could hear:" (B1 182)
    2) " 'Why, mother,' poised Telemachus put in sharply..." (B1 397)
    3) "... until discreet Telemachus took command 'You suitors plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening..." (B1 422)
    4) "Winning words with a lucky ring. Odysseus' son rejoiced; the boy could sit no longer-- fired up to speak, he took his stand among the gathered men." (B2 36)
    5) "Filled with anger, down on the ground he dashed the speaker's scepter-- bursting into tears. Pity seized the assembly. " (B2 86)]]>     2021-03-15 17:20:11 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311903529     jonahmacarios https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311906403 1. When Penelope complains about a song that one of the Bards' is playing, Telemachus takes charge and condemns her. "As for giving orders, men will see to that, but I most of all: I hold the power of reins in this house."(89 Lines 412-414)
    2. Telemachus expresses his anger towards the suitors, and tells them that they plague his mother and his home. "You suitors who plague my mother...."( 89 Lines 422-427)
    3. Telemachus declares that at first light, there will be an assembly held in which he will tell all of the suitors to leave his home. "But at first light we all march forth to assembly, take our seats..."(89, 428-434)
    4. Telemachus delivers a fervor filled speech that commands the men to leave his home and leave his poor mother alone. "The boy could sit no longer - fired up to speak, he took his stand among the gathered men." (94, Lines 38-90)
    5. Telemachus confronts Antinous who is one of the suitors. "But self possessed Telemachus drew the line:......"( 103, Lines 343- 356)]]>     2021-03-15 17:20:43 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311906403     anneroth1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311917151 1. "You should be ashamed of yourselves, mortified in the face of neighbors living round about!" (pg 95)
    2. "Telemachus, my high and mighty, fierce young friend, no more nursing those violent words and actions now." (pg 102)
    3. "...until discreet Telemachus took command: 'You suitors who plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening..." (pg 89)
    4. "Telemachus countered firmly: ‘Antinous, even though my words may offend you, I’d be happy to take the crown if Zeus presents it." (pg 90)
    5. "Odysseus' son rejoiced; the boy could sit no longer--fired up to speak, he took his start among the gathered men." (pg94)]]>     2021-03-15 17:22:33 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311917151     Lance Bernstein lance_bernstein https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311920284 1. "'my heart breaks for Odysseus, that seasoned veteran cursed by fate so long ... Olympian Zeus, have you no care for him in your lofty heart'" (B1 56)?
    2. "'If now it really pleases the blissful gods that wise Odysseus should return--home at last--- let us dispatch the guide and giant-killer Hermes ... down to announce ... the exile must return'" (B1 98)!
    3. "'He won't be gone long from the native land he loves, not even if iron shackles bind your father down. He's plotting a way to journey home at last; he's never at a loss'" (B1 235).
    4. "'Oh how much you need Odysseus, gone so long-- how he'd lay hands on all these brazen suitors'" (B1 296).
    5. "'You must not cling to your boyhood any longer-- it's time you were a man ... It all rests with you. Take my words to heart'" (B1 341).]]>     2021-03-15 17:23:09 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311920284     Nina Clark https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311920794 Why is Athena, a goddess, so deeply concerned with the affairs of a single mortal? As the ruler of Olympus, why doesn't Zeus have more power over Poseidon? Why hasn't Penelope sent the suitors away herself if she is regarded as so bright? How did Odysseus' absence affect the upbringing of Telemachus? On what authority does 'Mentes' have the ability to declare Odysseus alive? What is Telemachus' relationship with his mother throughout the narrative thus far? Why is Telemachus, a prince, treated with such contempt and disrespect from those around him? Why does Penelope have hope for Odysseus' return despite him being gone for twenty years? Without Athena, would Telemachus have ever stepped up to address the suitors?]]> 2021-03-15 17:23:15 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311920794 caroline_liu1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311921457 Before meeting Athena, Telemachus was timid and almost scared at the thought of having to find his father, but he slowly gained confidence throughout books 1-2 until he seems to almost fall to the other extreme of self possession which can be seen through:
    - "So Telemachus declared. And they all bit their lips, amazed the prince could speak with so much daring." (pg 90)
    - "Odysseus' son rejoiced... he took his stand among the gathered men" (pg 94)
    - "You should be ashamed yourselves, mortified in the face of neighbors living round about!" (pg 95)
    - "Telemachus answered, firm in his resolve..." (pg 99)
    - "Telemachus, my high and mighty, fierce young friend, no more nursing those violent words and actions now." (pg102)

    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:23:23 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311921457     Yuna Nomoto https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311922001 Telemachus is predominantly concerned with the safety of his mother due to the absence of his father as well as the ruthless suitors. He and Penelope remain in a sense of insecurity with the fate of Odysseus unknown, although they doubt he has passed. Knowing the suitors would target Penelope in her state of vulnerability, by forcefully preventing her endeavors to find her husband, Telemachus is afraid of the safety of his unguarded mother. “Despair in Departure Lounge” by the Arctic Monkeys accurately reflect similar sentiments of fear and anxiety of leaving a loved on in fear of their security, parallel to Telemachus’ fears of leaving his mother behind and what that may entail for her safety. In the song, an ongoing cycle of fear is present. The individual first focuses on the pure fear they are first confronted by and how security is lost with lack of another’s presence, “He’s got the feeling again...It feels like she’s nowhere near...The thought comes closely followed by fear.” This is followed by a minor and brief segment of empowerment in which the individual becomes motivated, similarly to how Telemachus is continuously empowered to continue forth by his mentor figure Athena who serves as a dominant catalyst to major developments: “YesterdayI saw a girl who looked like someone you might knock about with...And then reality kicked in within us.” The individual then questions his choice to endeavor in the first place, considering the sacrifice of losing security within this figure, “It seems as we become winners, You lose a bit of summat.” This accurately portrays Telemachus’ initial self pride when recognized by Aegyptius, but the sentiment of melancholy frustration followed shortly thereafter in which no definitive decision was made with the assembly of the Archaens; questioning whether the endeavor was effective or meaningful in any range. As the song ends, this cycle of fear, minor optimism, and questioning, ends. The song ends on a note of sadness, half-hearted regret, and insecurity within this missing figure as the song had started, “And she's still nowhere near, And the thought comes closely followed by the fear, And the thought of it, Makes you feel a bit ill, Despair in the departure lounge.” ]]> 2021-03-15 17:23:29 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311922001 austin_oconnell1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311922437 Athena persuasion skills are demonstrated when Telemachus responds to Athena bold reuqest for Telechmachus to kill his mothers suitors. Telechmaus replies,"Oh stranger...indeed I will. You've counsled me with so much kindness now, like a father to a son."(lines 352-354). Athena perusion skills are also shown by how Athena convinces Telemachus that his father is alive, despite Telemachus thinking he was dead. When told his father is dead by Eurymachus he replies,"I am no longer to trust in rumors."(471) In contrast in the begining of the book he says he is not even sure if Odyesus is his father when he says,"Mother has always told me I'm his son its true, but I am not so certain.(240) Telemachus confidence in Athenas word is further demonstrated when he tells his nurse that he believes he has the gods on his side for his journey. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:23:34 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311922437 Essential Questions arjunkishore https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311927863 Is Telemachus making the right decision?
    How malicious are the suitors?
    How significant of a role does/will Athena play in Telemachus's adventure?
    Is this a permanent or temporary change in Telemachus?
    How much will Odysseus have changed since he first left?]]>     2021-03-15 17:24:32 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311927863     angelica_marin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311932099 Why is Athena so eager to help Telemachus? Is Athena caring for Telemachus, or is she more concerned about his beloved father coming home? Why didn't Athena offer any help in actually getting the suitors out of the palace? What would've changed if Athena had chosen a female disguise? How does the situation with the suitors at Telemachus' palace change his decision making process when planning his journey to find Odysseus? ]]> 2021-03-15 17:25:14 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311932099 Ambika ambikagrover https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311933237 What specific rhetoric and methods of persuasion does Athena utilize to persuade Odysseus to go after his father?
    Why does Athena take such a deep interest in helping Telemachus?
    Why is Telemachus prepared to leave his mother and palace? Does he truly believe that things will be the same when he returns?
    What is Telemachus’ motivation in going after his father?
    Based on Telemachus’ behavior, would his mother Penelope approve of his quest?
    How is Athena able to change the mind of her father, Zeus?
    Why does Zeus oblige to Athena’s wishes?
    Why does Zeus send the birds after the suitors?
    What do the suitors feel toward Telemachus?
    Does it seem probable that the older woman’s prophecy will come true? 
    Why doesn’t Telemachus want to tell his mother what his plans are? 


    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:25:27 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311933237     Yuna Nomoto https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311939140 1. Hearing how Aegyptius was speaking of Telemachus, he pridefully claims his identity as the figure who ordered the Assembly of the Archaens - "Winning words with a lucky ring. Odysseus’ son rejoiced; the boy could sit no longer—fired up to speak, he took his stand among the gathered men" (lines 35-37, Book II).
    2. Makes a strong argument in which he calls shame upon the suitors after he is empowered by Aegyptius' praise, "You should be ashamed of yourselves, mortified in the face of neighbors living round about!" (lines 70-71, Book II). 
    3. His decision to stay significantly calm after the suitors' rebuttal, despite the malicious characterization of his mother, instills a confidence in his response, making the suitor's claims seem immature or invalid, "But with calm good sense Telemachus replied: "Antinous, how can I drive my mother from our house against her will, the one who bore me, reared me too?"" (lines 143-144, Book II)
    4. Telemachus is characterized as "self-possessed" far into the assembly, which is reflected in his response, "But self-possessed Telemachus drew the line: "Antinous, now how could I dine with you in peace and take my pleasure? You ruffians carousing here!"" (line 343-345, Book II).
    5. Telemachus continues his course of action despite the belittlement he experiences from the suitors as there was no concrete decision made in the assembly, "So they scoffed but Telemachus headed down to his father's storeroom" (lines 336-337, book II).
     
    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:26:30 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311939140     yurika_sakai https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311944470 1. Despite Zeus' initial opposition to aiding the humans, "Athena drove the matter home" and flattered her father by calling him the "son of Cronus, [the] high and mighty king" to convince him that the Gods should help Odysseus (Fagles 79).
    2. Athena left Telemachus's "spirit filled with nerve and courage" after a brief discussion, and convinced him to seek out his father, Odysseus (Fagles 88). This conveys how Athena is able to inspire those she speaks with and fill them with a new resolve that they previously did not have.
    3. When Telemachus was left discouraged from embarking on the journey by his council, Athena "urged him on with winged words" to continue preparing for the journey (Fagles 102). The adjective of "winged" to describe Athena's words signifies that she is able to speak quickly and cleverly.
    4. When Athena asked Noemon to lend her a swift ship, "he gladly volunteered" (Fagles 105). Noemon's lack of hesitation demonstrates how easily Athena is able to persuade others to get what she needs.
    5. To help Telemachus depart on his journey, Athena "showered sweet oblivion over the suitors" until they were knocked out (Fagles 105). Athena's words are depicted as "sweet" yet capable of complete obliteration, showing how powerful Athena's persuasion is.]]>     2021-03-15 17:27:29 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311944470     aaliyakhanna https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311950713 1) "If now it really pleases the blissful gods that wise Odysseus shall return--home at last-- les us dispatch the guide and giant-killer Hermes dow to Ogygia island, down to announce at once to the nymph with lovely braids our fixed decree: Odysseus journeys home-- the exile must return!" (page 80, lines 98-103)
    2)"but you, I urge you, think how to drive these suitors from your halls." (page 86, lines 312-313)
    3) "Athena came for his prayer from close at hand, for all the world with Mentor's build and voice, and she urged him on with winging words." (page 101-102, lines 300-302)
    4) "Then bright-eyed Pallas thought of one more step. Disguised as the prince, the goddess roamed through town, pulsing beside each likely crewman, giving orders: 'Gather beside our ship at nightfall--be there." (page 105, lines 423-425)
    5) "Back she went to King Odysseus' halls and there she showered sweet oblivion over the suitors, dazing them as they drank, knocking cups from hands." (page 105, lines 435-437)]]>     2021-03-15 17:28:36 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311950713     mia_cernigliaro https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311951187 1- Telemachus responds to his mother in a rather intense manner. The epic poem states, “ Why, mother, poised Telemachus put in sharply,” (Lines 396-397)
    2- Telemachus is also very assertive with the boisterous crowd of suitos, shouting, "You suitors who plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening.." (Lines 422-423).
    3- As a result of Telemachus’ newfound dominance, the suitors were "amazed the prince could speak with so much daring" (Line 439).
    4- When faced with rebuttals from other suitors, Telemachus responds “cool headed” and “firmly”, (Line 445).
    5- After responding to these accusations laid before him at the town meeting, Telemachus angers Antonious, who states, "so high and mighty, Telemachus—such unbridled rage!" (Line 91).

    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:28:41 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311951187     questions caleighradzin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311951355 - Do some of the Gods truly care about the benefit of those they are supposedly meant to protect? Or, do they have secondary motives that benefit themselves? After all, Athena was quick to come to the aid of the mortals, while Zeus was incredibly skeptical towards the entire ideal.
    - Instead of using the shroud as a vessel of hope, could Penelope not just refuse to meet with the suitors? With the protection of such powerful divinity such as Athena, could the Gods not just come to Penelope's protection against the suitors rather than forcing her into such a vulnerable situation?
    - Following that suit, Athena was considered to be a patron of justice, morality, and intelligence; if she had so many defining positive qualities, couldn’t she have theoretically just persuaded the suitors to leave Penelope alone herself? Or, did she want the mortals to assume responsibility themselves?
    - How would the mortals know to trust Athena? After all, many Gods / Goddesses at the time supposedly rivaled each other, further highlighting the divine powers in Ancient Greece as flawed Gods. If Athena possessed the ability to disguise herself as a mortal, who is to say a rival God couldn’t have done the same and disguised themselves as Athena? Or, did they choose to trust her simply because it was the only small twinge of hope they possessed?]]>     2021-03-15 17:28:43 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311951355     saiuri_parimi https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311952886 Telemachus’ confidence and oratory skills are first seen when commanding the suitors to leave his palace, “..You must leave my palace! See your feasting elsewhere, devour your own possessions” (Fagles 89). However, he is met with snide remarks from the angry suitors. His confidence and growing oratory skills are seen in his response to Antinous’ rude comments, “But cool-headed Telemachus countered firmly: Antinous, even though my words may offend you..” (Fagles 90) The next day, he summons the suitors and men in the village in a meeting to talk about his father, Odysseus. The effects his growing speech and oratory skills has on the audience is seen in their response, “Pity seized the assembly. All sat there, silent…” (Fagles 95-96). Odysseus continues to answer and debate suitors’ and towns people's comments and remarks calmly, emphasizing his growing confidence when speaking, “Telemachus answered, firm in his resolve” (Fagles 99). Confidence in himself and the quest to find his father, his confidence in his speech is seen when he asks the gods for help, “Dear god, help me!” (Fagles 101).]]> 2021-03-15 17:29:00 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311952886 Cai caijain https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311954311 1)" 'My whole story, of course, I'll tell it point by point' ." (B1 207)
    2)" '... You're truly Odysseus' son? You've sprung up so! Uncanny resemblance . . . the head, and the fine eyes--I see him now.' " (B1 240)
    3) " 'Still,' the clear-eyed goddess reassured him, 'trust me, the gods have not marked out your house for such an unsung future, not if Penelope has borne a song like you.' (B1 256)
    4) " ' For you, I have some good advice, if only you will accept it. fit out a ship with twenty oars, the best in sight, sail in quest of news of your long-lost father." (B1 320)
    5) " 'How obscenely they (the suitors) lounge and swagger here, 
    look gorging in your house." (B1 262)

    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:29:16 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311954311     ambikagrover https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311960473
  • “Athena, her eyes flashing, bright, exulted, ‘Father, son of Cronus, our high and might king! If now it really pleases the blissful gods that wise Odysseus shall return–home at last– let us dispatch the guide and giant-killer Hermes down to Ogygia Island…’” (80). 
  • “‘What’s this banqueting, this crowd carousing here? And what part do you play yourself? Some wedding-feast, some festival? Hardly a potluck supper, I would say. How obscenely they lounge and swagger here, look, gorging into your house. Why, any man of sense who chanced among them would be outraged, seeing such behavior’” (85). 
  • “For you, I have some good advice, if only you will accept it. Fit out a ship with twenty oars, the best in sight, sail in quest of news of your long-lost father” (86). 
  • “There all night long, wrapped in a sheep’s warm fleece, he weighed in his mind the course Athena had charted” (92).
  • “And so Athena, daughter of Zeus, assured him. No lingering now– he heard the goddess’ voice– but back he went to his house with aching heart and there at the palace found the brazen suitors” (102). 

    • ]]>     2021-03-15 17:30:23 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311960473     Lance Bernstein lance_bernstein https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311969566 - Why is it important that Poseidon, who holds a grudge against Odysseus, is absent during Athena and Zeus' discussion?
    - What overall role does Athena play in Telemachus' upcoming journey? What ulterior motives might the goddess have?
    - Why does Homer have the bard singing the tale of the return of the soldiers from Troy? What rhetorical choices is the narrator making here?
    - How does Telemachus' character development portray his new confidence or initiative after his visit with Athena?
    - What does Penelope's weaving of the shroud illustrate in the epic?]]>     2021-03-15 17:32:01 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311969566     qianxue_ge https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311971605 1. "Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king,... have you no care for him in your lofty heart?" (1.54-73). In this scene, Athena is asking Zeus to consider helping Odysseus to return home. Her use of praising epithets epitomizes her brilliance in the art of persuasion.
    2. "Wait, I'll make you a prophecy, one the immortal gods have planted in my mind" (1.232-234). This is a promise Athena makes to Telemachus. She appeals to the immortal gods, a higher authority, to strengthen her claim.
    3. "trust me, the gods have not marked out your house for such as  unsung future" (1.257-258). Athena assures Telemachus about his birth and builds up his trust and positive impression for her.
    4. "Now, if you hear your father's alive and heading home,... If you hear he's dead,..." (1.330-332). This shows Athena's brilliance as she sort out every step for Telemachus and ensures him that he would not suffer from failure even if he found out that his father has died.
    5. "Her eyes glinting, Pallas declined in haste... off and away Athena the bright-eyed goddess flew like a bird in soaring flight" (1.361-367). Athena's actions corresponds with her story that she told to Telemachus to keep it from being too apparent to the suitors that she is a goddess but yet displays her power to convince Telemachus that she is a goddess.]]>     2021-03-15 17:32:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311971605     lauren_koester https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311974787 How does Telemachus embark on a metaphorical journey before embarking on his physical journey? 
    What trials has Telemachus undergone before embarking on his physical journey?
    What role does fate play in The Odyssey? What role do the gods play? Do they influence fate? 
    Are the suitors inherently immoral? Is Telemachus inherently moral? 
    What makes Telemachus stand out from other assembly members? 
    To what extent has Telemachus demonstrated himself as a homeric hero? 
    What does this suggest about the Greek's perception of human nature? 
    What does the role of Penelope reveal about gender norms in Ancient Greek society? What does the relationship between Penelope and Telemachus reveal about family norms in Ancient Greek society? 
    What does the influence of the gods over the lives of morals suggest about Ancient Greek society? 


    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:32:57 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311974787     an_suzuki https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311976825 1. When Athena appealed to Zeus by praising him: "Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king!" (80). 
    2. When she convinced Telemachus to stand his ground and deal with the suitors by claiming that it is something his father would have done: "how he'd lay hands on these brazen suitors!" (85).
    3. When she earns Telemachus' trust by showing kindness: "As for the gift - whatever you'd give in kindness - save it for me return so I can take it home" (87)
    4. When she disguises herself as Mentor, a person that Telemachus trusts: "Athena came to his prayer from close at hand, for all the world with Mentor's build and voice" (101).
    5. When she reassures Telemachus by claiming he is brave and strong like his father: "Few sons are the equals of their fathers... But you, brave and adept from this day on" (102).

    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:33:20 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311976825     fallonmartin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311978076 Athena from the beginning of Book 1 presents herself as a very thorough thinker who is able to get Zeus and Telemachus to listen to her. As she speaks with her father she asks "have you no care for him in your lofty heart" (79). Athena purposely guilts Zeus by judging his character. Shortly after this remark Zeus exclaims " No how on earth could I forget Odysseues?" (79). Athena pokes at his character so well that Zeus almost feels undermined which essentially made him give into to Athena's wishes. Additionally, two times the epic poem highlights "her eyes flashing bright" almost as if it is a means of her persuasion as well (80). Later she discuses Telemachus' circumstance with him and explains "Why, any man with sense who chanced among them would be outraged," (85). By reprimanding Telemachus for his lack of control it makes him feel that he must take a stand. She because even more persuasive by using Telemachus' goal of being more like his father when she says "know he'd [Odysseus] lay hands on all these brazen suitors," (85). Athena shows true brilliance by using the the revered Odysseus to force Telemachus to follow the footsteps of his father which he would gladly do.]]> 2021-03-15 17:33:35 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311978076 jonahmacarios https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311978138 1."And sparkling-eyed Athena drove the matter home: Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king, surely he goes down to a death he earned in full!...." (79, Lines 53-76)
    2. "Athena, her eyes flashing bright, exulted. Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king! If now it really pleases the blissful gods that wise Odysseus shall return..."( 80 Lines 96-112)
    3. "Her eyes glinting, goddess Athena answered, "My whole story, of course, I'll tell point by point."(83 Lines 207 - 236)
    4. "But you, I urge you, think how to drive these suitors from your halls, listen closely"( 86, Lines 311- 319)
    5. "And so, Athena, daughter of Zeus, assured him. No lingering now-he heard the Goddess' voice-"( 102 Lines 330 - 342)]]>     2021-03-15 17:33:35 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311978138     Cece Tauber cecelia_tauber https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311978857 1. “Athena, her eyes flashing, bright, exulted, ‘Father, son of Cronus, our high and might king! If now it really pleases the blissful gods that wise Odysseus shall return–home at last– let us dispatch the guide and giant-killer Hermes down to Ogygia Island…’” (P 80 L 96)
    2.  "'You must not cling to your boyhood any longer-- it's time you were a man ... It all rests with you. Take my words to heart'" (P87 L 341)
    3.  "Choose something rare and fine.It all rests with you,"  (P 87 L 365)
    4. “Sparkling-eyed Athena drove the matter home” (P79 L53)
    5. "'Still,' the clear-eyed goddess reassured him, 'trust me...'"(P85 L265)
    Throughout the first 2 books, Athena uses her power to shift into different people in order to persuade Telemachus to go on the journey. Additionally, she persuades all other gods, men, and suitors around her to try and help Telemachus along. ]]>     2021-03-15 17:33:43 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311978857     Nina Clark https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311979352 "And sparkling-eyed Athena drove the matter home" (53), this shows how she is persuasive even amongst Gods and she can get her way. Further, Athena "urges" Telemachus multiple times throughout the narrative saying, "Athena urged him on...So come,
    on with our voyage now" (442-445), and ""she urged him on with winging words" (302)". Further, she was also able to get the suitors to leave the estate towards the end, which is explained in the narrative: "she showered sweet oblivion over the suitors...no more loitering now... beds" (446-449). Finally, she was also able to persuade Telemachus to have hope which is described when Athena claims she will "...rouse his son to a braver pitch, inspire his heart with courage" (105-106).]]>     2021-03-15 17:33:48 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311979352     caroline_liu1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311981429 -"Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king!" (pg 80)
    -"With that promise, off and away... charged with his father's memory more than ever now" (pg 88)
    -"Athena came to his prayer from close at hand... and she urged him on with winging words..." (pg 101-102
    -“And so Athena, daughter of Zeus, assured him... aching heart and there at the palace found the brazen suitors” (pg 102). 
    -"But calling the prince outside his timbered halls... we're wasting time'"(pg 105-106).


    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:34:13 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311981429     mia_cernigliaro https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311989516 1- Athena persuades Zeus to go against Poseidon's wishes and help Odysseus. The speaker states that,  “Sparkling-eyed Athena drove the matter home” (Lines 79). 
    2- Athena manages to convince Telemachus, a pessimistic man who has been moping in the gloom of his supposedly dead father’s palace, that his father is “still alive somewhere in this wide world” (line 83).
    3- Athena further encourages Telemachus, telling him to “drive these suitors from [his] walls” (Line 86). 
    4- Even further striking a nerve with the son of Odysseus, who always aspired to be like his courageous father, Athena states “Few sons are the equals of their fathers” (Line 102), even further encouraging him that he is special and that he is brave enough to find his long lost father. 
    5- Athena even convinced Telemachus to follow through with her very specific plan, even though there is no established connection between Telemachus and disguised Athena. Athena urges, “Gather beside our ship at nightfall,” (Line 105). With this last part of the plan being fulfilled, Athena single handedly convinced two powerful figures, Zeus and Telemachus, to follow through with a plan that she orchestrated. 

    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:35:41 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311989516     lindsay_geary https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311993277 1. Being able to argue with her father with great reasoning and evidence, "And sparkling-eyed Athena dove the matter home:..." (pg 79)
    2. Through Telemachus response to her, ""Ready Telemachus took her up at once: 'well, my friend..." (pg 85)
    3. She praises and compliments them in a way that persuades them into the journey. "and she urged him on with winging words: 'Telemachus, you'll lack neither courage nor sense from this day. on..." (pg 102).
    4. She was able to get Telemachus thinking about her plans all night, "There all night long, wrapped in a sheep's warm fleece, he weighed in his mind the course Athena charted." (pg 92)
    5. Fagles continues to use the phrase "sparkling eyes" or "sparkling-eyed" to describe Athena, I think this may be a way that she is able to persuade through her expressions as well as her words. ]]>     2021-03-15 17:36:23 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1311993277     lindsay_geary https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312000617 - How did Telemachus longing for fame and adventure influence his choice to leave and ‘set sail’?
    - What directly lead to the decision to look for Odysseus?
    - How did Athena's influence push people to search for Odysseus?
    - What influences made Athena want to help find Odysseus?
    - How was Telemachus' mother look at during the story? What does this say about the time period this book was written in?]]>     2021-03-15 17:37:45 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312000617     anneroth1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312003590 1. “Telemachus, you’ll lack neither courage nor sense from this day on, not if your father’s spirit courses through your veins-” (pg 102)
    2. “Rouse his son to a braver pitch, inspire his heart with courage” (pg 80)
    3. "Mentor and Halitherses can speed our young prince on, his father's doddering friends since time began." (pg 101)
    4. "And so Athena, daughter of Zeus, assured him." (pg 102)
    5. "Telemachus climbed aboard. Athena led the way, assuming the pilot's seat reserved astern, and he sat close beside her." (pg 106)]]>     2021-03-15 17:38:18 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312003590     mia_cernigliaro https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312003938 Is there a reason why Penelope doesn’t want to marry, especially if she believes her husband is dead? Why would she make a promise to the men if she was certain her husband was dead? Have the suitors done anything to Penelope that would make her scared of marriage? When will Oddyseus be brought into the story? Will Poseidon ever find out about Athena’s plan?]]> 2021-03-15 17:38:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312003938 austin_oconnell1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312007690 What does the earthquake god have against Odyseus? How long has Odyseus been gone? Has the conflict that caused the trojan war been resolved? How does Athena learn about Odyesues story? Why do none of the other gods have sympathy for Odyesues?]]> 2021-03-15 17:39:03 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312007690 Emma emma_kunschner https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312013720 Telemachus is most concerned with leaving his mother behind on his journey to find his father, as the suitors pose a danger to her. Not only are these men extremely greedy, eating all of telemachus’s food, and living off of his belongings, they also are interested in marrying Penelope, whose husband is believed to be dead. However, Telemachus’s mission is to find his father, as he believes he is still alive, and thus, he would not want to return home to find his mother married to one of the suitors whom he is not very fond of. The song, Leaving My Love Behind represents how Telemachus does not want to leave his mother because he cares for her and her safety. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:40:04 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312013720 essential questions aaliyakhanna https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312017826 Is Zeus going to send out the guide and giant-killer Hermes? How are suitors looked at in society? How bad are these suitors? Will Posiedon hold the same grudge against Telemachus that he does against Odysseus? Is Athena going to assist Telemachus through the whole journey? What is going to happen to Penelope, will suitors try and marry her while Telemachus is gone? ]]> 2021-03-15 17:40:49 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312017826 Emma emma_kunschner https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312017859 Though we see Telemachus’s developing oratory skills and confidence throughout the poem, it is really after his conversations with pallas athena, where she reassures him that  when he gains full confidence and is able to lead the journey to find his father. Telemachus expresses his oratory skills first when giving an order to his mother. “So mother, go back to your quarters [...] I hold the reins of power in this house” (page 89). His confidence is again shown through the line, “And they all bit their lips, amazed the prince could speak with so much daring” (page 90). After this however, telemachus experiences a bump in his road to having full confidence when the suitors begin to attack him. “Filled with anger [...] bursting into tears” (page 95). Athena is able to reassure Telemachus that he should embark on this journey, and he portrays the way it boosts his confidence through the quote “‘Courage, old woman,’” (page 105). Finally, Telemachus giving orders on the ship demonstrates how much pallas athena has taught him in terms of confidence and oratory skills. “as Telemachus shouted commands to all his shipmates ‘All lay hands to tackle!” (page 106).]]> 2021-03-15 17:40:50 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312017859 Emma emma_kunschner https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312018519 Athena's ability to persuade telemachus to embark on a journey to find his father is demonstrated at many points throughout the book. First, the title of book one, “Athena inspires the prince” clearly denotes that she is able to persuade Telemachus. She is able to do so through her convincing disguise as Mentes, “My whole story, of course, I’ll tell it point by point.” (page 83). Her unwavering, assertive tone as portrayed in the quote “Yet I tell you great odysseus is not dead. He’s still alive,” (page 83) again serves to help persuade Telemachus. Through Telemachus’s response to her, it is clear that she is extraordinarily convincing, as he regards her conversation as “like a father to a son.” (page 87). The narrator again highlights her persuasive nature as through the quote, “And Pallas Athena sped away in the lead [...] The prince, inspired, gave his first commands:” (page 106). ]]> 2021-03-15 17:40:57 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312018519 Emma emma_kunschner https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312019514 Why was Telemachus so compelled to listen to the advice of Pallas Athena? How does Penelope’s response to Telemachus embarking on this journey reflect the type of relationship she had with Odysseus? How is the relationship between Odysseus and Telemachus highlighted? What aspects of Ancient Greek culture serve to inspire the choices made by Telemachus? ]]> 2021-03-15 17:41:08 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312019514 yurika_sakai https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312021858 How do the God's relationship with the humans reflect family and social roles in Greece?
    What are the recurring motifs in the first two books, and what message is being driven about those motifs?
    What differences are there between the archetypal hero (Telemachus) and the common civilian?
    What gender norms are depicted in the first two books? How does the ides of masculinity in Greece compare/contrast to ideas of masculinity today?
    What parts of the hero's journey has Telemachus encountered thus far?]]>     2021-03-15 17:41:33 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312021858     sofiaiuteri https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312023097 Why is Athena so invested in aiding Telemachus in his journey? What is in it for this powerful goddess? How will the suitors act when Telemachus isn't around, when they already highly disrespect Penelope and their estate when Telemacus is around? Will Penelope be overthrown by the suitors as Telemachus is on his journey? Will Poeiseden intervene in Telemachus' journey to save his father, as he seeks revenge?]]> 2021-03-15 17:41:46 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312023097 jonahmacarios https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312023832 As the ruler of Olympus, doesn't Zeus have the ultimate power to make decisions over Poseidon? Why does Athena have such an interest in helping Telemachus? Why is Athena solely the one that cares about Odysseus's situation? Can parallels be drawn between Telemachus's upcoming journey and Odysseus's? How does Penelope's role in the story reveal the gender inequity among Greek society? Will Penelope feel abandoned after finding out that Telemachus has left her? If the suitors weren't so sure that Odysseus was dead, would they act in the same manner with Penelope? How does Athena instill courage and confidence in Telemachus to begin his own journey, and character arc? Would Telemachus's characteristics be different had he been raised by both Odysseus and Penelope? Since Penelope refuses to directly tell the suitors to leave her home, what does this reveal about her character or her power? ]]> 2021-03-15 17:41:54 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312023832 sofiaiuteri https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312025134
  • "But my heart breaks for Odysseus …. cursed by fate so long … Olympian Zeus, have you no care for him in your lofty heart?'" (page 4)
  • “Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king!" (page 5)
  • “Put them out of your mind, these suitors’ schemes and plots… there mad men. (pg 27),”
  • “Athena… assured him. (page 27),” Athena disguises herself as Telemachus.
  • “But you, I urge you, think how to drive these suitors from your halls. Come now, listen closely. Take my words to heart.” (page 11)
    • ]]>     2021-03-15 17:42:08 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312025134     sofiaiuteri https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312026711
  • “You should be ashamed yourselves… (page 20).”
  • He asks the suitors how he could send his own mother home, the Gods would “hurt me (him) even more (page 22)” 
  • “Discreet Telemachus took command: “You suitors who plague my mother”(page 14)
  • “But I’ll cry out to the everlasting gods in hopes that Zeus will pay you back with a vengeance—all of you destroyed in my house while I go scot-free myself!” (page 15)
  • “I hold the reins of power in this house.” (page 14)
    • ]]>     2021-03-15 17:42:26 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312026711     sofiaiuteri https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312028084 Telemachus is most concerned with protecting his mother and preserving his estate against the suitors. He also hoped to hear good news of his father’s safety, and that he is returning home. A song that emulates this scenario is “One call Away” by Charlie Puth. Just as Puth is “one call away”/ always there for the audience (most likely a friend or girl) in his song, Telemachus would want his mother to know that he has his best interests for her at heart, and wishes he was there to protect her from the manipulative and greedy suitors.


    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:42:42 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312028084     caroline_liu1 https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312030268 Why was Zeus so against helping Odysseus home after becoming a war hero and instead decided to let Poseidon take out his anger on Odysseus? Why did Athena choose Telemachus to embark on the journey to find his father instead of finder Odysseus herself? If Telemachus is rightfully the Prince of Ithica, why did he not speak up for his mother before Athena had arrived and used his status to help defend his mother? Will Penelope be able to defend herself without Telemachus? Will Poseidon or other minor gods take action against both Odysseus and Telemachus to keep them apart? Although Athena told Telemachus about Odysseus, how will Telemachus know if it really is Odysseus? ]]> 2021-03-15 17:43:06 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312030268 lindsay_geary https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312031146 Telemachus is most concerned about reaching his father. Wanting to bring him home, and to help stop his mother from having to marry any of the suitors that people are pressuring her to marry, getting to his father is the best way to fix both of those problems. This can be described through the song, Who Say You Can’t go Home by Bon Jovi, though this can be argued to connect more to Odysseus, it provides a simplification that Telemachus views the task as. Thinking that it will be easy to bring him home or find out if he is dead, when if fact there are many obstacles saying that he can’t go home, which Telemachus fails to see. ]]> 2021-03-15 17:43:15 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312031146 Yuna Nomoto https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312042404 - “Father, son of Cronus, our high and mighty king, surely he goes down to a death he earned in full!" (lines 46-47, Book I).
    - "But my heart breaks for Odysseus, that seasoned veteran cursed by fate so long" (lines 49-50, Book I).
    - "Olympian Zeus, have you no care for him in your lofty heart?...Why, Zeus so dead set against Odysseus?" (lines 72-76, Book I).
    - " "Still," the clear-eyed goddess reassured him, "trust me, the gods have not marked out your house for such an unsung future"" (lines 256-257, Book I).
    - "And so Athena, daughter of Zeus, assured him. No lingering now - he heard the goddess' voice" (lines 330-331, Book II). ]]>     2021-03-15 17:45:17 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312042404     qianxue_ge https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312045366 Why was Odysseus' journey home so turbulent? How did the Gods plan to help Odysseus? Why did Athena disguise as Mentes to meet with Telemachus? What was the plight Telemachus faced? What was Penelope's attitude towards the suitors? How did Telemachus experience a growth in confidence? How does Telemachus plan to find his father?]]> 2021-03-15 17:45:49 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312045366 Cece Tauber cecelia_tauber https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312047103 Why is Athena so invested in Telemachus' venture? What gain does she have from aiding him onward? How was Athena so persuasive towards Telemachus and why was he so quick to listen?]]> 2021-03-15 17:46:09 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312047103 saiuri_parimi https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312051829 1- Athena poses annoying and poking questions to Telemachus , “What’s this banqueting, this crowd carousing here? And what part do you play yourself?” (Fagles 84). She hopes that these somewhat redundant and obvious questions make Telemachus think more about his role in the family and at the palace. 
    2- Athena shows Telemachus the need for Odysseus, “How he’d lay hands on all these brazen suitors! If only he would appear, now” (Fagles 85). Athena emphasizes the importance of Odysseus in the family AND persuading him to find his father to do so. 
    3- Athena leaves Telemachus with a new purpose and goal, “But left his spirit filled with nerve and courage, charged with his father’s memory more than ever now” (Fagles 88). Emphasizes the success of Athena’s persuading discussion with Telemachus. 
    4-  The power and effect of Athena’s speech in Telemachus’s response, “There all night long… he weighed in his mind the course Athena charted” (Fagles 92). 
    5- Athena uses a motivating and familiar voice to further the impact her message has to Odysseus, “Athena came to his prayer from close at hand, for all the world with Mentor’s build and voice” (Fagles 101)


    ]]>     2021-03-15 17:47:02 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312051829     an_suzuki https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312065081 Why was Athena the only God to have such interest in Odysseus?
    Why did Telemachus not take any action with the suitors before Athena came?
    Why did Athena come to Telemachus to help with bringing Odysseus home, instead of Odysseus himself? 
    What are the gender roles that are in place in Ancient Greek society, and how much does that affect the characters in the epic poem? 
    If it was known that Odysseus was alive, how much would that affect the suitor's behavior?
    How much control does Athena have over this situation? Does she know for sure that Telemachus is capable of succeeding in discovering what happened to Odysseus? ]]>     2021-03-15 17:49:29 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312065081     fallonmartin https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312079264 Telemachus and Penelope provide hospitality as it is common to practice xenia so why do all the suitors take advantage and not fear the gods?
    Why does Telemachus fail to take  action before Athena comes?
    Why is Athena so intrigued in helping Odysseus when there are many other in his situation?
    So far what archetype can Penelope be classified as?
    Why does Athena indirectly aid with the aggressive exploitation of hospitality rather than directly?]]>     2021-03-15 17:52:03 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312079264     saiuri_parimi https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312083095 What does the role of Zeus and Athena play in the book? Through what acts/symbols are the love and hope for Odysseus shown? How are ideas of xenia seen between Penelope’s palace and the suitors polluting it? What different paradigms are seen in the clash between Telemachus and the suitors? How do themes of nostos affect people’s viewing/opinion on Odysseus? How are ideas of hubris seen by the suitors? What do the eagles, sent by Zeus, represent about the gods? ]]> 2021-03-15 17:52:44 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312083095 Yuna Nomoto https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312086776 What was the initial catalyst in Athena's decision and endeavor to help Odysseus?; is it purely out of good intent and morality or a larger picture in which may serve to Athena's benefit? 
    How does Penelope as a vulnerable figure contribute to the identity of other figures in the text; does her vulnerability serve as a catalyst in portraying certain characters as heroic, malicious, etc?
    How does the societal norm and expectation of Xenia serve as a driving source to major plot points, themes, etc.?]]>     2021-03-15 17:53:26 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312086776     Krishna Reddy https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312580083 Telemachus is most concerned about if his father is dead, and what the future of his father will be. After meeting disguised Athena and her ship and crewmates, Telemachus sails to Pylos to discover more about Odysseus and his adventure. His father situation would dictate his own situation, as if he was confirmed to be dead, Telemachus would have to assume the thing his father left behind. One song that relates to this is Believer by Imagine Dragons which communicates the idea to find meaning in the pain in his life. Telemachus has just lost his father, and as a result he finds meaning by stepping up and being more confident and courageous. ]]> 2021-03-15 19:43:37 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312580083 Krishna Reddy https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312623293  “You suitors who plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening … " (Fagles 14).

    "but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house" (Fagles 14).

    "Don’t soften a thing, from pity, respect for me— tell me, clearly, all your eyes have witnessed" (Fagles 35).

    " fired up to speak, he took his stand among the gathered men." (Fagles 19).

    "Telemachus, my high and mighty, fierce young friend" (Faglew 27).



    ]]>     2021-03-15 19:55:32 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312623293     Krishna Reddy https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312681648 "But my heart breaks for Odysseus, that seasoned veteran cursed by fate so long— far from his loved ones still, he suffers torments off on a wave-washed island rising at the center of the seas" (Fagles 4).

    "While I myself go down to Ithaca, rouse his son to a braver pitch, inspire his heart with courage" (Fagles 5).

    " He’s plotting a way to journey home at last; he’s never at a loss" (Fagles 9)

    "Off and away Athena the bright-eyed goddess flew like a bird in soaring flight but left his spirit filled with nerve and courage, charged with his father’s memory more than ever now" (Fagles 13).

     “Telemachus, you’ll lack neither courage nor sense from this day on, not if your father’s spirit courses through your veins" (Fagles 27).]]>     2021-03-15 20:13:04 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312681648     Krishna Reddy https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312721481 How does the support of the gods benefit the character development of Telemachus? Why would the gods, especially Athena want to help Telemachus? Is it because of Odysseus? How does the status of gender norms when the text was written impact the roles of the characters? How does the fact that Penelope's future is being decided by the suitors and Telemachus instead of herself support this idea?]]> 2021-03-15 20:25:06 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1312721481 Cai caijain https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1313663995 Why does Athena, specifically, have such interest in Odysseus? Is she aiding him because she wants something or out of the kindness of her heart? Why was Telemachus so quick to believe Athena about his father being alive? How does he know he can trust her? How did Telemachus expect the suitors to act after he openly condemns them? How will the suitors act without Telemachus around? Did Telemachus' speech do anything to discourage the suitors?

    ]]>     2021-03-16 02:59:44 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1313663995     siyuanfeng https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315528697 The survival of Odysseus relies on Zeus’s decision, will Zeus respect Poseidon’s anger or overrule it? Is Athena predicting the success of Odysseus, manipulating it, or promising it? What is the interconnection between the fates of father and son?]]> 2021-03-16 13:26:02 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315528697 siyuanfeng https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315531234
  • “Gripping her bronze spear, she looked for all the world like a stranger now, like Mentes, lord of the Taphians” (1.121-123). Athena disguises herself as Mentes, an old friend of Odysseus, which represents loyalty and trust (divine intervention - less conspicuous)
  • “Blood wedding” (1.308) Athena convinces Telemachus to hold an assembly so that he can rebuke his mother’s suitors. It’s evident that the pathos evokes the fighting spirit of Telemachus, persuading him to become responsible for the duty of king of Ithaca.
  • “... farseeing Zeus sent down a sign...” (2.164-2.174). Zeus sends a sign down in the form of two eagles because Athena evokes pity and sadness of Odysseus to plead for his release. Therefore, the gods feel that it’s their obligation to protect Telechamus (ensure the return of both men)
  • “Telemachus, you’ll lack neither courage nor sense from this day on, not if your father’s spirit courses through your veins - now there was a man, I’d say, in words and action both!” Telemachus’s confidence grows under Athena as she compares and contrasts him with his father. It’s honorable for Telemachus to be honored with the characteristics of Odysseus, who is the king of Ithaca (power)
  • “Back she went to King Odysseus’ halls and there she showered sweet oblivion over the suitors, dazing them as they drank, knocking cups from hands” (2.435-2.437). Athena continues to support Telemachus by gathering a crew of twenty men, borrowing a sturdy ship and bringing sleep to the suitors (persuadeTelemachus to follow the journey successfully)

    • ]]>     2021-03-16 13:26:29 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315531234     siyuanfeng https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315532682
  • “You suitors, who plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening…” (1.422-1.423). Telemachus criticizes the suitors because of their dishonorable and disrespectful actions. The negative dictions of “insolent” and “overweening” symbolize that Telemachus can no longer tolerate the suitors, it’s evident that he gains a sense of maturity after the guidance of Athena by talking like a god.
  • “A bronze spear… two sleek hounds… marvelous splendor” (2.10-2.14). Athena dresses Telemachus to be god-like and striking, which indicates that his grief and tears are signs of determination rather than sings of weakness (determined to search for Odysseus regardless of the prevailing danger and hardship)
  • “But I’ll cry out to the everlasting gods in hopes that Zeus will pay you back with a vengeance - all of you destroyed in my house while I go scot-free myself” (2.160-2.163). Telemachus escalate through the authority of the gods in order to strengthen his own strength and foreshadow the people of Ithaca that they will be punished by their inhumane schemes.
  • “Antinous, how can I drive my mother from our house against her will, the one who bore me, reared me too?” (2.144-.2.145). Telemachus responds that sending Penelope back to her father would be a disgrace. Most importantly, this consistent source of power and symbol of honor permits individuals of a city, state and even country to comprehend the traditional values given by their leaders.
  • “All lay hands to tackle!” (2.464). The imperative mood portrays the confidence of Telemachus to command the crews, which increases the speed and organizes the preparation to set out for sail.

    • ]]>     2021-03-16 13:26:44 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315532682     siyuanfeng https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315533775 Telemachus is the most concerned with the absence of his father and the presence of the suitors from the island of Ithaca. Specifically, despite Athena convincing Telemachus to commission a boat and crew to search for Odysseus, he can’t promise that Odysseus will return home safety. In addition, the suitors dishonor the home by insulting Penelope and stealing the property of Odysseus, which makes Telemachus to feel the responsibility of stopping a dishonorable act. Comparably, “Fight Song” by Rachel Platten is my song choice, because this song is about how individuals conquered their fears regardless of identities and achievements in the past (believe in themselves). Similar to Telemachus setting out for a sail to search for his father, Odysseys, Platen opens her song with “like a small boat/on the ocean/sending big waves/into motion.”

    ]]>     2021-03-16 13:26:53 UTC https://padlet.com/kelly_carlin/szkgk95hii26orhw/wish/1315533775