CIME Mentoring Scenarios - What would you do? by Aris Winger https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1 What would you do in these situations. en-us 2023-03-14 17:49:42 UTC 2025-02-16 15:54:05 UTC hello@padlet.com 1. validate his experience -- and that it is *not* okay for this to be happening to him https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529263527 2023-03-23 17:51:47 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529263527 Telling the student that this situation is not OK. Offer them help with the material of the class(one on one). As being myself in a lower rank and still working on my own professional career I would be very hesitant to reach out to the professor, even though I know this would be the right thing to do. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529266620 2023-03-23 17:54:16 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529266620 Consider seeing if others in the class are experiencing this. Talking with a tutor. Talking with the professor after class to schedule a time for the both of them to meet (either for analysis help or to discuss how Jamyll's class experience has been) https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529266714 2023-03-23 17:54:21 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529266714 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529266981 It’s possible that the professor in question and I are peers. If so, I would like to have a chat with my peer and (with compassion, but still sternly and seriously) bring up this issue.]]> 2023-03-23 17:54:34 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529266981 I would talk to the professor and try to get them to stop. Also talk to other students to see if this is a widespread problem. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529267406 2023-03-23 17:54:54 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529267406 I'm not sure what I would do first, but I think both are things I would consider: offer to go with Jamyll to talk with the professor AND talk with the professor individually to let them know that this is the student's perception and are they aware that they are doing this. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268080 2023-03-23 17:55:27 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268080 Go to the well-respected professor and tell him to fuck off - politely of course. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268082 2023-03-23 17:55:27 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268082 Talk to the professor separate from the student to get a feel for if this is intentional. This is hard but necessary. You need to know if you can work with the professor for a solution or separately from them. If approachable, have a group meeting to talk about making sure Jamyll is seen and how to find a path for success in the course. If not, look for alternatives. Can they learn from someone else? Can they take the class another time with another instructor? Can they take it online? Can they get help from a tutoring center on campus? https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268267 2023-03-23 17:55:35 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268267 Following Lucy's recommendation, listen to understand. Then show genuine empathy, then brainstorm with the student what can be done, assuming the student is open to it. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268493 2023-03-23 17:55:46 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268493 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268629 Let the student know that this is not okay, and depending on how they seem to be during the discussion ask them if they would like for me to take some action. If so, I think I would talk to the department chair first (assuming this professor is not the chair), without identifying the student of course.

(maybe I have this reaction because I am junior faculty right now, and wouldn’t feel comfortable approaching that professor directly)
]]> 2023-03-23 17:55:52 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529268629 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529270111 Let him know that's not okay.  Refer him to other resources for assistance.  (Tutoring)  Tell him you'll investigate.

Talk to the professor.  Get his perspective of his interactions with Jamyll.  

Will probably have to have a conversation--either with them both together, or separately, depending on what comes out of the individual conversations.  I'm department chair, so I can guide from a position of authority--but if not comfortable,  I can call on my Dean for assistance.]]> 2023-03-23 17:56:55 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529270111 First try to see how to improve the student's circle of control, by seeing how to improve the grade and brainstorm on ways to enhance class participation maybe by asking a question (rather than waiting to be called on) While I try to see how to get the professor to make a positive change https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271025 2023-03-23 17:57:34 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271025 I feel two responsibilities here: to help the student through this particular class, and to effect change in this classroom/departmental climate. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271077 2023-03-23 17:57:36 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271077 This is hard... padifus https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271200 After validating Jamyll's feelings. I would try to look at Jamyll's assignments to see if the grade seems fair to me and try to help them with them? Give them tips on what it seems that the professor is asking for or subtracting points from. 
If I am not a faculty member (which Im not) I would probably feel hesitant to talk to the professor, also because this can have bad repercussions for the student. ]]> 2023-03-23 17:57:42 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271200 I thank Jamyll for sharing with me and I would ask Jamyll if he is comfortable if I intervene on their behalf. If so, I would reach out to the professor and have a discussion with the Professor, attempting to keep Jamyll anonymous. Otherwise, I would ask Jamyll if there are other ways that I may be of service. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271232 2023-03-23 17:57:44 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271232 keep up communication with student. What solutions would they be happy with? Do they want me or someone else to approach the professor? Do they want to switch sections? Do they want help finding more academic support? https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271963 2023-03-23 17:58:18 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529271963 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529272515 I have to preface this by saying I am not a professor. I’m a Ph.D. student (not even “candidate” yet). I have no idea what an advisor (who is a professor) is supposed to do in this situation… but as the advisor,  maybe I help Jamyll tell his professor how he is feeling to make sure the professor is aware that this is going on. Because maybe the professor is just unaware. But that makes me nervous because the professor might try to gaslight Jamyll in response... At that point, maybe I as a professor can step in to try to mediate?

As a grad student, I would want an advisor to validate the experience and then step in and be willing say something if it turns out that the professor is intentionally targeting or ignoring me... if I'm comfortable. I probably actually wouldn't want them to do it, but knowing they'd be willing to would make me feel better. That's just me, personally]]> 2023-03-23 17:58:37 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529272515 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529274265 First, assure Jamyll that you will help them in any way possible. I would then check out the well-respected professor on ratemyprofessor.com to see what other students have to say before approaching the professor about the issues Jamyll has with their class. I would then talk to another senior professor for advice on the matter.

]]> 2023-03-23 17:59:55 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529274265 validate student; unpack what's going on with the student. I might also ask the student for details so I can find out from the professor what is going on. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529274627 2023-03-23 18:00:10 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529274627 Report to the EDI officer on campus https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529274729 2023-03-23 18:00:15 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529274729 validate and gather more information to figure out what the student wants/needs https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529280442 2023-03-23 18:04:32 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529280442 One technical term for what I'm afraid of when intervening with the professor is confirmation bias. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529296178 In particular, I'd be afraid that being asked to reflect on the potential impact of racial bias might lead this professor to grading Jamyll even more harshly -- to "objectively" validate their unconscious bias. ]]> 2023-03-23 18:15:19 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529296178 "I'd like to hear what Martine has to say." https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529300602 2023-03-23 18:18:34 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529300602 Call it out https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301100 2023-03-23 18:18:59 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301100 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301138 I would cut that faculty member off and say “Excuse me, Martine was speaking”.]]> 2023-03-23 18:19:01 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301138 those with privilege (seniority, white, men...) *have* to step up here. They have to notice when this kind of thing happens, and they have to call it out and let Martine speak! https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301230 2023-03-23 18:19:05 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301230 Ask Martine directly to give input. Intervene if needed to be sure she is allowed to share her thoughts. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301698 2023-03-23 18:19:28 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301698 Personally, if you kept cutting me like this I would be struggling to make my point. Can we hear what Martine has to say? padifus https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301783 2023-03-23 18:19:30 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301783 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301801 Suggest a format other than whole-group discussion. For instance, everyone could write ideas on an equal number of post-it notes and then the group could do a gallery walk. ]]> 2023-03-23 18:19:31 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301801 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301929 “With all due respect, Martine has valuable insight and deserves a chance to speak.”]]> 2023-03-23 18:19:36 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529301929 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302123 Basically just interject and say “I think Martine has something to contribute”. I’m junior faculty too but sometimes am just pushy like that. :) (though I’m sure I’ve been Martine as well)]]> 2023-03-23 18:19:46 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302123 If possible, take the facilitator of the meeting aside (or slip a note) to suggest a reminder of not interrupting speakers. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302353 2023-03-23 18:19:58 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302353 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302644 What I would want to do is cut the person who just cut Martine off and tell them I want to hear what Martine has to say. I am a graduate student, and whenever I have been in a situation like this, if I don't feel brave enough to cut the other people off, I make sure that once they finish speaking I say something like "MArtine was trying to say something and I'd like to hear her finish"]]> 2023-03-23 18:20:12 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302644 Oh, this happens to me all the time. I have to be really obnoxious to stop it. It is irritating that I end up seeming like the obnoxious one. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302663 2023-03-23 18:20:14 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529302663 Chat with her to see how she feels, and if she's open to you advocating on her behalf. Once she grants the permission then perhaps it can be politely addressed with other colleagues. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529303597 2023-03-23 18:20:56 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529303597 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529304394 Maybe the department needs a green box to throw around!]]> 2023-03-23 18:21:34 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529304394 Leverage my privileges which put me in a position of power to create space for Martine https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529304480 2023-03-23 18:21:39 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529304480 I was once Martine https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529305945 And one of my male colleagues (also in a junior position) pointed it out very clearly to the faculty. He said to the group, “Everytime Martine speaks, you cut her off. You never do that to me.”

]]> 2023-03-23 18:22:42 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529305945 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529306279 Honestly, though, while I would want to demand Martine gets more respect in the moment, I also have been frustrated when someone has done that for me. I want to be the one to stand up for myself. So this largely depends on my relationship to Martine. Do I know what Martine would prefer?]]> 2023-03-23 18:22:57 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529306279 What not to do: email Martine after the meetings and apologize when you could have said something in public. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529306803 2023-03-23 18:23:23 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529306803 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529308312 Draw on my relationship with Martine... is she the kind of person who wants someone to step in on her behalf? Particularly white people should be intentional about not being white saviors. ]]> 2023-03-23 18:24:22 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529308312 (in addition to stopping this behavior) follow up with Martine afterward. She's dealing with two things here: criticism (perhaps not constructive) as well as being interrupted. She might be pretty upset and need validation. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529308473 how much should i also publicly call the gendered implications of this behavior (not just stop the behavior)? (especially if I'm also a woman)]]> 2023-03-23 18:24:29 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529308473 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529313126 Have the confidence/power to remind the group of the community standards for constructive conversation (as our organizers have done masterfully). Might need to begin the year with developing a community agreement and have it posted as a reminder for each session]]> 2023-03-23 18:28:02 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529313126 To support Martine in the moment I would be sure to use my seniority and privilege (power) to ask that my colleagues pause and focus on Martine's expertise and experience. In the longer term, I would work for department meeting norms that balance participation. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529319177 2023-03-23 18:32:58 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529319177 I'm all for making sure the oppressed person's needs are centered, and more substantial interventions happen with their consent .... *and* my learning about the question of when to intervene in a micro/macro-aggression has been to *not* wait for their consent for a first intervention - brief, to interrupt the behavior, not to judge. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529319274 2023-03-23 18:33:03 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529319274 I wonder what my position is in this situation? https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331097 2023-03-23 18:42:34 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331097 AS a third year phd student https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331243 this is exactly what I am afraid of... I'm afraid of thinking I'm doing well but my advisor thinking I'm doing terribly]]> 2023-03-23 18:42:41 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331243 This time you have both perspectives. Ask Ahmad to give you more detail on what he's working on. Then you can see where the mismatch is between what he's saying and what his advisor is saying. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331353 2023-03-23 18:42:46 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331353 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331690 Ahmad probably needs a break. It’s easier to tell passersby that things are going well to not have to grapple with reality every time you’re asked how you’re doing.]]> 2023-03-23 18:43:03 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331690 Totally depends on my relation to both of them https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331885 But let's say I'm on the dissertation committee. I would schedule a meeting to discuss the problem(s) Ahmad is working on. I would frame it as just general interest in the research.]]> 2023-03-23 18:43:13 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529331885 Bring up the dynamic of the relationship and what expectations/needs are present for both the advisor and the advisee. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529332486 2023-03-23 18:43:44 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529332486 Give Ahmad space to share more about his research. Hopefully find things to validate, help fuel the excitement, ... ... then ask what his advisor's feedback is. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529332599 2023-03-23 18:43:52 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529332599 it seems to me that... padifus https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529333337 The advisor needs to have a little talk about what they expect with their student. It doesn't seem that communication is working there!?]]> 2023-03-23 18:44:26 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529333337 I think it is effective if you talk with Ahmed telling him your story being a graduate student doing a research. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529334112 provide him some advice based on your own humble experiences.]]> 2023-03-23 18:45:02 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529334112 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529334486 Ask Ahmad more about his research. What is he exploring right now? What has he been working on? It’s entirely possible that Ahmad is making lots of progress and doesn’t like to communicate with his advisor much - some people like to work independently (or maybe he doesn’t feel comfortable with his advisor). It’s also possible that Ahmad has a different definition of “going well” than his supervisor does, and that there’s a miscommunication there.]]> 2023-03-23 18:45:16 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529334486 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529335621 I would ask Ahmad more questions about his research. If Ahmad is able to say a lot about his research, then I would maybe ask about his meetings with his advisor and how they are going. If Ahmad is not able to say much, then I would be concerned that he is not actually working on it and suggest a meeting with his advisor. I would also want to talk more with the advisor to see how much they are reaching out to Ahmad and how he is responding to these requests.]]> 2023-03-23 18:46:15 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529335621 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529336270 I think I would maybe reach out to Ahmed- say that I am here if they want to talk and that it'd be helpful to do check-ins on a certain basis. Maybe this is the role of the DGS but..]]> 2023-03-23 18:46:44 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529336270 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529336449 Do Ahmad and his advisor measure progress in different ways?]]> 2023-03-23 18:46:54 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529336449 Definitely talk with Ahmad and don't let the discussion stop with "it's all good". Pry deeper without being interrogating or doubting. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529337034 2023-03-23 18:47:24 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529337034 Courage and Shame https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529337177 It's important to use my privilege carefully. Deciding to call out or confront someone can be tough, and the decision often needs to be made quickly. *Learning what to say or do in the moment takes practice.*

I did not appreciate being shamed by Pamela for the lack of confidence or lack of awareness in calling someone out for what they said. We are here to learn, and we need grace for not always knowing what to say or for saying it correctly. (This is me practicing calling someone out, by the way)]]> 2023-03-23 18:47:29 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529337177 Approach Ahmad with compassion. abbeherzig https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529338716 Open the door to him for an open conversation. Maybe go somewhere outside of the department space (coffee off campus?) to reduce some of the power vibes.
Offer to mentor him, not in words, but by reaching out with compassion as a mentor.
There may be some important things going on and he might need some support. ]]> 2023-03-23 18:48:49 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529338716 https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529340038 Not great on the advisor to gossip without checking in with Ahmad personally. :p]]> 2023-03-23 18:49:55 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529340038 Ask Ahmad more questions about his relationship with his advisor. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529343769 An alternative interpretation of the situation could be that Ahmad does not respect his advisor. It reads like the advisor is trying to reach out to Ahmad and is frustrated. ]]> 2023-03-23 18:52:44 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529343769 I want to amplify what I just heard about the passivity of the advisor's approach. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529349837 2023-03-23 18:58:02 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529349837 If the situation implies that Luciana will soon be overwhelmed and overworked with task, this is a great mentoring opportunity for the person who is speaking: tell the chair about the concerns you have for Luciana and tell Luciana that there needs to be a balance in tasks taken on. https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529362565 2023-03-23 19:09:26 UTC https://padlet.com/ariswinger/CIME_Scenario1/wish/2529362565