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Argument of Grudges

skl113 — 2025-02-24 12:45:54 UTC

"Once you have a reason to be angry, you have a reason to be angry forever"

Grudges are moral because even if a person apologizes and try to make amends, it doesn't take away the fact that they have wronged you, thus giving you a reason to be angry.

Argument of Revenge

skl113 — 2025-02-24 12:46:12 UTC

Getting revenge is rational because it allows us to hold each other accountable for our actions. Revenge can also use the action of wrongdoing as a basis for future interactions.

Callard's questions

skl113 — 2025-02-24 12:50:54 UTC

"Could it be rational for you to be just as angry on Thursday as you were on Tuesday? Moreover, could it be rational for you to conceive of a plan to steal from me in turn? And what if you don't stop at one theft: could it be rational for you to go on to steal from me again, again, and again?"

Beginning scenario

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:00:36 UTC

Callard creates a hypothetical scenario where she steals from a person on Monday, however, apologies and returns what she stole on Wednesday

Callard's answers

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:02:26 UTC

Callard responds to the questions saying yes to all

Counterpoint: Irrational and unjustified

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:10:00 UTC

"Who wants to go through their whole life angry?"

Stoicism

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:11:06 UTC

A type of philosophy that focuses on letting go the things we don't have control of and focusing on the things we do have control of.

Buddhism

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:11:18 UTC

Religion/philosophy that teaches how people can achieve enlightenment and escape the cycle of rebirth through Buddha's teachings.

Seneca

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:11:45 UTC

States how anger is "a form of madness". Wrote De Ira, a treatise about how to managing the effects of anger.

Santideva

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:12:08 UTC

A monk that states how in order to achievement enlightenment, one must get rid of even the slightest amount of anger, because any parts of anger can cause only harm

Sentamentalism

skl113 — 2025-02-24 13:21:19 UTC

Philosophical view that moral judgements are based on emotions and feelings (anger)

Conclusion

skl113 — 2025-02-24 17:26:01 UTC

It's impossible to separate the moral aspect from the immoral aspect of anger (grudges and revenge). Anger is anger.

Sub-claim

skl113 — 2025-02-24 17:27:30 UTC

"Your bad is my good"

"the morally correct way to respond to immorality is to do things-cling to anger, exact vengeance- that are in some way immoral"

Although a person may view a wrongdoing as "morally unacceptable", the person who committed the wrongdoing sees it as morally acceptable. So, in order for a person to do good, they must do bad to another.

Rebuttal

skl113 — 2025-02-24 17:30:58 UTC

Anger isn't about wanting to fix what has happened to you (because you can't fix something that has already happened), but instead to express your feelings and recognizing that the thing that angered you has happened. Callard suggests that even though some may judge letting go of your anger to be rational, not recognizing and setting it to the side, will never resolve the underlying cause of the anger.

Friedrich Nietzsche

skl113 — 2025-02-24 19:48:25 UTC

Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals (1887)

States how anger is moral because it acts as fuel for those who are previously oppressed and wronged, promoting change

Pro-anger say yes

skl113 — 2025-02-24 20:00:19 UTC

"emotions are how we humans do morality"

Anti-anger say no

skl113 — 2025-02-24 20:00:31 UTC

Wants to totally get rid of anger. All of anger is immoral. Claims how anger's two main negatives are the tendency to cling to anger/hold grudges and wanting to take revenge

Michel Foucault

skl113 — 2025-02-24 20:07:24 UTC

Michel's Foucault's Discipline and Punish (1975)

Talks about the transition from public torture to imprisonment. How in order to rely a message to the bad people it is a need to imprison them/public execute. Doing something immoral in order to do something moral.

Rene Girard

skl113 — 2025-02-24 20:07:43 UTC

Girard's Violence and the Sacred (1972)

Talks about how violence can lead to a chain of limitless violence and in order to stop the chain, it is a need to have a sacrifice.

Link to Forum

skl113 — 2025-02-24 22:10:34 UTC