All American Boys by Kelly Herbst

All American Boys by Kelly Herbst https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2 Made with a wink and a smile en-us 2016-10-12 18:21:25 UTC 2016-10-19 23:19:40 UTC hello@padlet.com kellyherbst26 https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130237954 21:12 Vanessa: All American Boys is definitely not a book that I would pick off the shelf and read. I am not going to lie, it was hard for me to get through. I am not a huge fan of books that deal with violence so I did struggle with it. When I read, I visualize EVERYTHING so the fighting and brutality made it very difficult for me to read. In the end, I did think it was a good book that brought to life many questionable topics.

21:14 Vanessa: I think if this story was being told from third person point of view, it would not have as much affect as it being told from first person, specifically Rashad and Quinn. In order to get a good sense of how they were feeling and reacting to the situations, the story had to be told from their point of view. Having an onlooker tell it wouldn't have as much of an impact. In the story, Rashad and Quinn are the ones experiencing what had happened so they need to tell it from their own mouths, it can't come from another person.

21:16 Vanessa: If I could, I would want to Rashad's father's true perspective on what happened to his son. When he was first assaulted by the police officer, he almost blamed Rashad for what had happened. Even though he was saying he did everything that is father told him to do. In the end, I would have wanted to know more about how his father felt when the cop was found "in the wrong."

]]> 2016-10-12 18:23:52 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130237954 All American Boys - Steph sdiedrick06 https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130304060 Wow! I never heard of All American Boys until this book group. I didn't know what to expect when checking this book out at the library. I would agree that this was a difficult book to read. It is hard to read about the issues of violence in this book. It's hard to imagine students reading this book because I know how disturbing and sad it made me feel.

I thought it was good to have the two different points of view. It really put a perspective and gave me a good sense of each character. I don't think the story would not have been as powerful if it was told from another perspective.]]> 2016-10-13 00:48:09 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130304060 Agreed! - Michelle mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130306166 I also agree that the book was out of my usual comfort zone. I don't typically read or watch things that have violence of any kind. I steer clear of high action and horror movies as well as book topics that seem to be tied to poverty (drugs, gangs, violence, physical and sexual abuse, etc.). I think that even if I taught at the middle school or high school, I'd have a hard time recommending this book to students. Our community has seen a boom in drug activity and teen violence and "police presence" has also increased. I think this is the life that some of our kids know all too well. :(

I didn't mind the two different points of view, and think that both were necessary for the reader to emotionally connect to each side of the story. I did think it would have been interesting to have some other chapters devoted to other characters. I would have liked chapters from Spoony and Rashad's dad at different points in the book. I also wondered what was going through Paul's mind as he was beating on Rashad outside of Jerry's. As I read that scene, I wanted his words to give me insight into what would lead someone to respond that way. I think it would have been interesting (although maybe a bit more confusing) to plop a few more characters in to share their feelings.

]]> 2016-10-13 01:05:35 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130306166 I fourth that! https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130311966 All American Boys- Mattie

A little too violent for me too! I knew when signing up for this book club that this was going to be the hardest book for me to read. I have a brother who is a deputy and all the recent events in the world have be stuck between a rock and a hard place. I worry about my brother and say a prayer for him every single shift he goes on. No doubt there are situations where I am on either side of this whole issue taking place, but is it seriously wrong of me to say that black lives AND blue lives matter?! My husband yells at me because I don’t watch the news, but honestly, every time I do I feel defeated, and wonder why I am raising children in a world filled with hatred. Seemed like this was a theme in this book. While I agree that this book is fitting for so many recent events in our world lately, I’m not quite sure that even if I taught at the middle school or high school level I would feel comfortable recommending this book or even having it in my classroom library. Violence was very visual in this book and if it was too much for me, I wonder what a student would feel like when reading this. I also wished that the book spent less time on Rashad in the hospital, I feel like I would have liked to have known more about his life after recovery, and what was going to happen after all of this.

I don’t think the book would have been as interesting if it weren’t told from the perspective of the two main characters. I think it would have been interesting though to hear the perspective of other characters in the story. Both the boys experienced the happenings in such a different way that I think this split version of narrating was best.

]]> 2016-10-13 01:50:09 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130311966 Response to Mattie - from Michelle mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130313876 I can't imagine reading this with the close ties to your family... to your brother. I have said the same thing about the whole Black Lives and Blue Lives matter. At one point I went on a bit of a rant after seeing a news report covering the rioting. I wondered why there weren't people on the scene with shirts, flags and bumper stickers saying ALL LIVES MATTER! With older children, I have felt thankful many times that they have moved through the education systems (our last will graduate in a couple more years) with little social trauma. While our society continues to become more violent and seemingly less empathetic, I continue to hope that my kids will make small positive differences through their kind actions and acceptance of others. While you think of your own children, I can't help but think of my students. One small misstep could lead to prison or even death! ]]> 2016-10-13 02:04:32 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130313876 Keeley - All-American Boys                        Maybe because I have been in middle school for so long and had discussions with 12-14 years olds and heard their comments, I actually thought it would be a good book for my kids to read this year. I have four 8th grade boys who just started last week and I am very interested to hear their thoughts.                            I really liked that it is told from two characters points of view. In the first chapter Rashad's background is given and as a reader we understand his dad is a strict military man and he is expected to meet his standards of behavior. Knowing that part of his life, and what he is doing that night and how he interacts with his friends, makes the incident in the store that much more shocking. Then later we learn Quinn's dad was also in the military and it creates a thread of connection between the two boys even though they don't really interact https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130376103 I did wonder why the white lady in the store didn't do more. ""I glanced at the lady, who was now moving slowly away, towards the cookies and snack cake aisle." (p.21) She clearly knew it was an accident but then didn't step up and say anything to defend Rashad. That part bothered me through the whole book. How do we react as bystanders to things that make us uncomfortable? What would I have done?

As far as hearing from a different character, I would like to hear Paul's account of the story in the store. We hear about both boys and their families during the week, but Paul's POV was critical to the story line and as a police officer, someone putting himself out there every day, I think it would have rounded the story out more and gotten a wider lens on the topic. What experiences has he had as a policeman that made him react and "see" what he thought he was seeing? I just thought that if there is going to be a story like this then lets hear all the parts of the story. ]]> 2016-10-13 10:11:50 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130376103 All American Boys- Abbie https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130464924 Wow! This book had me hooked. I can say that i honestly love reading controversial books, they keep me hooked and I love hearing the different points of view. I enjoyed that the story was told back and forth between two narrators. I couldn't help but get emotional when Rashad was getting handcuffed and beaten by the cop for 'stealing' a bag of chips that he was planning on paying for. The author did a great job really explaining in detail, to the point where you could really feel the emotions of the character.
I could really see the sense of brotherhood between Rashad and his friends, when he finally turned on his phone when we was in the hospital and he had several missed calls and text messages from his friends who were all concerned about him, that made you see how close they all were. ]]> 2016-10-13 14:51:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130464924 Michelle-- https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130523268 It's tough! It's tough to find my place, because I see my brother's perspective a lot and then I see seemingly ignorant people who commit crimes and hate cops, but yet don't hate them that much when they are calling them to report a barking neighbor dog, or when they get into an accident. So it is tough. And I couldn't agree more, all I can hope is to raise my children with the same ideas you have in mind as well. I always think to myself, if I don't bring children into this world, then i'm not contributing as much good as I possibly can. Thanks for the response Michelle!

-Mattie]]> 2016-10-13 16:59:37 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130523268 Keeley - mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130632612 I think that personal experiences and environment play such a huge role in how we perceive things. You mentioned that you like to read controversial books, but also being with middle school kids and having a specific group of students in mind seems to add to the interest of the book. I think about how desensitized we become when things are just part of our daily lives (or in the very least extended surroundings). In my very high poverty school, it's not uncommon to hear kids get upset with other kids or more often with teachers and shout profanities. For someone else that may be a bit hard to handle on a regular basis. Maybe my perspective would be different if I worked with older kids.

As for the lady in the store not being an up-stander and defending Rashad, the text makes it pretty clear that she was completely confused by the whole situation. " 'No, no, I ---' The lady was now standing, clearly perplexed by the question. " (pg. 20) I feel like Paul spent the entire time while at the store putting words in Rashad's (and the lady's mouths). They never really had a chance to be heard.
-Michelle]]> 2016-10-14 01:53:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130632612 Why did the woman not do more? vmlecy https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130634104 Keeley, I too was so confused why the woman that tripped over Rashad did not do more to help him? She totally knew that everything was a misunderstanding and still stood their and did nothing. I wonder how many times no one steps up to do something. I know I personally have done this. I see something happen and don't say anything. We are trained from the day we are born to "treat others the way we would like to be treated," but when we see someone being treating badly we don't do anything. Even if we don't want to be treated badly, we shouldn't think it is ok for someone else to treat someone badly and not do anything about it.

Vanessa]]> 2016-10-14 02:10:45 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130634104 Ooops! mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130634285 Sorry Keeley! I blended your post with Abbie's comment about liking controversial books. My bad...
-Michelle

]]> 2016-10-14 02:13:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130634285 Rashad's changing position mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130634465 I thought it was interesting that the authors shared Rashad's inner struggle with the situation. On page 59 when Spoony tells him they're checking the internet for proof it says, " I gotta admit, there was a part of me that, even though I felt abused, wanted to tell him to let it go." It seems as if he didn't want to be another 'sad story statistic' But then later (pg. 86) he gets upset that his dance time at the party was taken away (along with his chance to just be a kid enjoying time with friends). More than being sarcastic, he sounds cynical. "Damn shame I didn't make it. Instead some big-ass cop decided to have a fist party on my face. Y'know, normal stuff. No biggie. I'm just a punk-ass kid. I have no rights. Just got body slammed for no reason..."

I wondered what made him change at that point when the news release hadn't come out yet.
- Michelle

]]> 2016-10-14 02:15:13 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130634465 Perspective https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130635698 I would agree with you,, Michelle, that perspective has a lot to do with our choices. I spent 13 years in a high poverty middle school with a variety of races within every classroom and am familiar with how that environment feels. And how short fuses are when they think there is an injustice being done. Because I currently work in a school made up of mostly white students of modest incomes, I choose this book for them as a way to develop some empathy and understanding of how there are two sides, or three sides, or four, etc to every story. How can we put ourselves in someone else's shoes and see it from a different perspective?Which after I heard some of the comments of a few of them made this summer, I felt like they could use some support in looking at the world with a wider perspective. While reading we discussed how certain behaviors and language choices in the book are there for a reason. What reason? Why did the author do it? How do we look at those choices and language for ourselves? I felt they were solid conversations young teenagers could have in a mature thoughtful format. This book is giving them a glimpse into a situation they only see on the news but know is an issue. ]]> 2016-10-14 02:30:02 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130635698 Just Curious mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130640104 Keeley,
It sounds like you made a great choice to have the kids read this book! Building that empathy through the emotions shared by both boys and their families in this story is something you can't just tell them about. They have to wrestle with their own perceptions and possible biases. I'm curious if you would have had your former students read it if you were still at your other school? I think about a couple of my 5th grade boys that have family members that more than likely have gang affiliations based on some hallway comments that have been made. I don't really think they're mature enough to think about this as deeply as I'd want them to, but I'm also not sure that they could read it with an open mind. I'm guessing their experiences with the police have not all been positive, regardless of whether the actions were following protocol and justified or not.
-Michelle]]> 2016-10-14 03:17:41 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130640104 Similarities between the parents mklug https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130641011 Did anyone else think it was interesting that both Rashad's dad and Quinn's mom were sending the same message to the boys. That people were watching them. Rashad's dad was "all about discipline" and even told Rashad "You couldn't have" when Rashad insisted he had done everything he was told to do to avoid trouble. His dad was worried that the boys had to look the part of good boys and Spoony didn't quite make the cut.

Quinn's mom gave him the riot act after she found out he had a flask and was stealing alcohol. This quote was powerful for me because I heard a bit of MY dad giving me a similar lecture. "It's about how the world looks at you and when they do, who do you want them to see? What kind of person do you want to be?" (pg. 69)

They parents weren't really so different in what they wanted for their boys.
-Michelle]]> 2016-10-14 03:28:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130641011 All American Boys- Sarah https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130644136 2016-10-14 04:06:28 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130644136 https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130644251 All American Boys- Sarah

]]> 2016-10-14 04:08:14 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130644251 All American Boys- Sarah https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130644359 This book was incredible: The violence was disturbing, yet the story was so thought-provoking & relevant with the recurrence of the recent events that led to the flood of police brutality and BLM marches. I was hooked right away; couldn't wait to see what would happen throughout the story.
The dual first-person narrative created very personal and powerful story lines. I felt like I was with Quinn and Rashad as they were speaking. The book would have been much less emotional had it not been told in the first-person.
I feel like the title is fitting, especially for Quinn: he portrays the typical All-American white athlete, and... unfortunately, Rashad also portrays the baggie pant "thug." Yet, realistically, I know that the way a person dresses doesn't define their personality. It's so sad that we tend to be judgmental and assume the worst, based on clothing and appearance. I would have appreciated hearing Paul's perspective. How could this good-guy cop go from being an overprotective, nice-guy to one that made such a quick accusation and pummel someone without asking questions? As I learned more about Rashad's dad, I felt for him. Initially, I was irritated with his behavior & how he treated his sons. I'd still like to get into his head, to see all the events that he had witnessed while on duty. The events that have been happening all too often today are down-right sad. Too many human lives are lost. I believe the story is a powerful message to step back for a moment before acting out. It brings public awareness to both sides of racial injustice. In the end, I think that Rashad's dad is the most courageous. As a retired policeman, I think he went against what he truly believes in for the sake of his family, out of love and respect for his son and family.

]]> 2016-10-14 04:10:11 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130644359 Would I? https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130889580 Well, I had to give your question some thought, Michelle, about sharing this book with kids from my last school-who were also 8th graders. Considering their backgrounds, and how the relationship between teacher and student grows throughout the year, I would probably still do the book but I would do it in the spring. There would be a stronger foundation in place to have that tough conversation. Many of my current students I also had last year in class, so that trust relationship was already there. I imagine my students are talking about these issues with each other already; I am hoping this gives them a supportive place to ask questions and legitimately wonder about their own values and choices. And maybe even research on their own some questions they have. One of our essential questions in 8th grade is how does reading novels help us understand the human experience. I keep referring to it as we move further into our books and remind them we are looking for ways to understand others. Not easy for sure.
Keeley]]> 2016-10-15 00:51:58 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130889580 Author's Talk https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130889993 Here is a link I found to the two author's speaking at a high school. I only watched maybe the first 20 minutes, but in that section they discuss their own personal experiences with the police and how those events shaped how they wrote their part of the story.
Keeley

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jason+reynolds+and+brendan+kiely&&view=detail&mid=9E72B666B066898507049E72B666B06689850704&FORM=VRDGAR

]]> 2016-10-15 01:11:26 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130889993 https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130890060 If the link doesn't work, I can always email it. Or just Google the author's names and some of the speaking engagements come up.
Keeley

]]> 2016-10-15 01:14:42 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130890060 All American Boys vmlecy https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130890617 Sarah,
You talk about title of the book, and I agree with you that it is fitting. It depicts Quinn as the stereotypical boy along with Rashad's friend, English Jones. On page 10 it describes him as "the stereotypical green-eyed pretty boy with parents who spoiled him." This does make me wonder how Rashad, being a different color and growing up in the neighborhood that he does was friends with him? Not that I am judging, but from the descriptions, it seemed like an African-American boy had it more difficult than a white boy. I do also wonder what would have been the outcome if Rashad would have been in his ROTC uniform when the lady tripped over him? Would the officer have questioned him then? Is it only because of how he was dressed? So, yes the title does "All American Boy" does accurately describe the events and relationships portrayed in the novel because they are two very different ideas of what an "all American boy" is in the book.

Vanessa]]> 2016-10-15 01:35:24 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130890617 All American Boys - Steph sdiedrick06 https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130927368 I think that this book can bring up a lot of emotions with events happening in society today. Throughout reading this book it's easy to make quick judgments and assumptions. I can see this book being used to reinforce different points of view and so much more. There is so much emotion and questioning in this book. It was nicely written where the details provided you a clear sense of the characters emotions and experiences.]]> 2016-10-15 17:16:32 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130927368 Vanessa https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130972879
I think your question about what if Rashad had been wearing his ROTC uniform is a good one. Would the officer have waited a little longer to make a judgement? Questioned him more? An "Again & Again" through the whole book was clothing. Spoony's clothes, Rashad's clothes, the clothes and look their dad wanted them to have. Why is that in there? How much emphasis do we as a society put on clothes and what type of person it is wearing those clothes? In the second half of the book Rashad's friends are putting up pictures of him and he wishes they had picked different ones because of how he looked in the pictures. I've had girls in class with pink hair, blue hair, purple hair, boys with earrings, so many baggy pants I couldn't even count, hooded sweatshirts, but I don't look at them and imagine they have weapons in their pockets. Why not? Because I know them. The person hiding behind all the outside stuff. How do we not judge first based on what we "see"?

Keeley

]]> 2016-10-16 14:51:15 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130972879 Vanessa, abbie_lambert https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130978230 I agree with your comment, would that officer have had a different reaction if Rashad had been in his ROTC uniform instead of it just being in his bag. What he have asked questions at first instead of just jumping to conclusions right away? Or on the other hand would the officer just had jumped to conclusions based on the color of Rashad's skin? These are just the two questions what were running through my mind as I was reading.
-Abbie]]> 2016-10-16 16:08:09 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130978230 Michelle, I agree abbie_lambert https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130978516 I agree with you that I think the officer did not give Rashad or the lady any time to respond to anything. I was hoping though that the woman would have stood up for Rashad because he really did not do anything wrong. I know that at times I have no filter and this would be a time where if I was in the woman's shoes I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut about what happened to Rashad but I think that is partially how I was raised to give everyone a chance, and to not place judgements on someone just based on the color of their skin.
-Abbie]]> 2016-10-16 16:13:19 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/130978516 Abbie- sdiedrick06 https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131003364 I think it would have made a difference if Rashad was wearing his ROTC uniform. I think there would have been more of a conversation and respect if he was wearing it.
-Steph]]> 2016-10-16 22:13:56 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131003364 Mattie https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131012588 Please tell your brother that there are MANY people who appreciate and value the difficult career your brother chose. I'm sure he knows that, but I am grateful that we have police who protect us every day. My college son is studying journalism in Milwaukee. He had the opportunity to ride with a police officer for a couple of hours during the day. My son was appalled at how many times he saw young adults stepping out in front on the police car and showing signs of disrespect. I was eager yet apprehensive to read this book, as I knew this book would be controversial. I too wish the author would have focused on Rashad's life a bit more after he was released from the hospital.
Sarah ]]> 2016-10-17 00:25:46 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131012588 Vanessa, https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131013611 Good point! I assume had Rashad been wearing his ROTC uniform, the outcome would have been completely different. I think we are all guilty at times of making assumptions based on appearances. It makes me stop & think about how I react to people, based on their appearance.
Sarah]]> 2016-10-17 00:40:21 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131013611 Abbie, https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131013946 Yes, Rashad was certainly a well-respected friend. It was nice to see all of the support he had at school. It would have been way too sad if he had to experience the tragedy without the support of his family & friends.
I really wondered about Paul's feelings and related experiences, too. -wish the author would have included more detail about Paul's past.
Sarah
Sarah]]> 2016-10-17 00:44:55 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131013946 So True! https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131138060 Keeley/Vanessa-

It is what we do in our society isn't it? Judge people based on what they look like. When in reality so many of us have found the stereotype to not hold true once we meet people. Truly shows that we have no idea what a person is all about until we actually meet them and get to know them.

-Mattie]]> 2016-10-17 13:50:37 UTC https://padlet.com/kellyherbst26/psgbjttuqiz2/wish/131138060