#2 - Questions on the readings - Curry and Milsom (2022) Ch 2&3 by https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj Please post one question, comment on one question and "heart" one question you want to discuss as a group. MAKE SURE TO USE YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME IN THE SUBJECT LINE. en-us 2022-04-03 13:45:40 UTC 2025-10-19 14:18:14 UTC hello@padlet.com Janet Kaucher https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2135077545 After reading chapter 2, I was very enlightened to learn the many ways we could help students with their post-secondary plans, especially by encouraging students that college is not their only option. 

My question this week is, how do we get students interested in noncollege options if the school we work at exclusively wants their students to only apply for college?]]> 2022-04-07 17:56:23 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2135077545 Anne Halliday https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2135346921 Phew, these chapters really highlighted a blindspot for me. On page 37, Curry and Milsom quote McNutt (2014) when they note that the value of a 4-year college degree is often found "beyond the classroom walls." I noticed myself really agreeing with that statement, which revealed a bias I have in favor of 4-year colleges. I'm really glad that came up for me now, so I can be mindful of the ways it might impact my work as a school counselor.

That said, here's my question for the week: If good CCR counseling calls us to consider a variety of factors like cost, debt, preparation versus program requirements, earning potential, etc...is it possible that what appears to be a practical, financially responsible, realistic college decision could be "undermatching" in disguise? Can they ever be the same thing? I hope that makes sense! It feels like the line between practicality/responsibility and selling oneself short might be hard to distinguish at times...]]> 2022-04-07 21:29:29 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2135346921 Itandehui Luis https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2136422539 The part of the chapters that really captured my attention was the Legal and Ethical issues part. Advocating for students and putting students first is what we have to do and should do. However, this can become taboo if parents do not agree and complain to administration about us. The book gave an example of the student that wanted to be a teacher but her parents wanted her in a cosmetology program. The principal was on the parents’ side because they needed to sign off on the post-secondary path.

Based on the statement above, my question is: If a parent wants their student to pursue something that they do not want to pursue and admin is supportive of the parent, what do we do? Should we continue to advocate for the student even if we “get in trouble” and have no tenure? I know we can do our best to present all information regarding career outlook, financial letters, etc. but some parents can be set in what they want for their kids. 

]]> 2022-04-08 14:21:37 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2136422539 Jake Jaskowiak https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2136927220 I really appreciated all of the nuance in chapter 2. To be frank, most of what I have seen in the college narrative is "it is always right to go to a 4 year college, it always makes sense, etc" . However the book pushes back against this a bit saying, " The answer is complicated. Yes, and it depends"

I generally find myself agreeing with this take. Not all degrees offer the same opportunities. Whether that is right or wrong is not exactly the point, because it is currently the fact. It is our job as counselors do deal with the facts available and present them as cleanly as we can to students. 

I think I have some jaded bias. I attended a small liberal arts school and had a tremendous experience. However I frequently found myself asking "why do I need to take this course?" I am a lifelong learner, and I love to learn period. However, when colleges charge young people absorbent amounts of money under the guise of "this will make you a better person" it can feel like a difficult argument. I certainly agree we are all better with more quality education. However my quality education has also taught me to approach every situation with a critical lens. I loved college, and think it is a vital part of a well functioning society. But I have my qualms...I will step off my soapbox. 

That being said my question for the week: is the current 4 year university system obsolete/broken? If so, what can we do to change it? If not, please explain. ]]> 2022-04-08 21:11:57 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2136927220 Suellen Beijos suellenbeijoscoutinho https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2137153108 After reading chapters 2 and 3, the Five Rules Of the College and Career Game from chapter 2 caught my attention. Especially rule number two when it comes to educating students about the difference in salary depending the profession they choose. 
With that being said, how do you discuss professions with students while not influencing their decisions when providing median salaries for different careers? I feel it is very easy for them to think that the higher the salary the better, when it's not about that. Even the book talks about how easy it is for the school counselor to impose their values without noticing, while in a career or college counseling session. ]]> 2022-04-09 04:22:12 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2137153108 Manuela Del Rio https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138141074 Chapter 3 made me realize something that had not yet crossed my mind… as counselors we might run into situations in which the student and the parent/s might not be on the same page in college/career choices. The student might have a career choice chosen that the parent does not agree with.  
As school counselors, how can we ensure the students voice is being heard, as well as keep confidentiality, and at the same time have a positive relationship with the parent when they are persistent and clear on what they plan as career choice for their child? 
]]> 2022-04-10 17:38:20 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138141074 Carlos Saucedo https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138282173 What are some proven strategies to get parents in the building to expose them to college and career readiness counseling? ]]> 2022-04-10 21:36:21 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138282173 Melissa Valdespino https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138354996 I appreciated that Chapter 3 highlighted the importance of having the ability to effectively serve diverse populations. I'm wondering how do we provide additional support to students who are part of these diverse populations without making them feel singled out? ]]> 2022-04-10 23:53:30 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138354996 Mia Andersen https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138464337 With my experience in working with families, the value of their support, feedback and collaboration is a detrimental piece to the success of the student. I'm glad that the chapter was able to highlight the challenges that come when students and guardians have opposing views. Additionally, I found it interesting to read about providing options for students "college and non-college options". Last but not least, my favorite was working with students to understand the financial implications of their career choice. Especially since I'm in the helping field, I'm biased towards finding a career that makes you happy. 

My question is: Is it doable to give career assessments to all students? Is that possible for budgeting, time and school capital. Also, how early to do you start career assessments (8th grade?)? And then, what is the best way to find the best fitting career assessment? ]]> 2022-04-11 01:41:36 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138464337 Hannah Eastman https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138465113 After reading the chapter's assigned as well as my peer's thoughts, it's been brought to my attention how much bias a student's connections can affect their college and career choices.  They have so many voices and opinions being thrown at them, whether it their parents/family, friends, teachers, school counselor's etc.  My question is how can we teach students to block out this noise, to be confident in their choices, and make them on their own when they have all the influence of others being thrown at them at a time in a human's life when confidence is already low?]]> 2022-04-11 01:42:22 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138465113 Alec Raffel https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138474397 After reading these chapters, I realized that I thought of going to a four year college as the best thing a student could do, and did not think of what was best for the individual student.  It made me think about how I should work with what the student wants and not what I think they should have when it comes to education after high school.

My question is, how do we balance being an advocate for the student and trying to work with the limited resources that our school might have?]]> 2022-04-11 01:51:19 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138474397 Maria Sanchez https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138523441 After reading both Chapter 2 and 3, there was a lot to quite take in and there was a lot great points that were brought up. Particularly to me one thing that stood out to me was reading about the college decision making. I think that when making the choice of going to college there is a lot in stake that a student has to think about before deciding what school best fits the student and if this school can meet the needs of the student. The book mentioned many factors that are contributing into the decision making such as the cost, peer influence, parental involvement and the list goes on. I do think each student has a different experience when deciding where to apply to college. 
In what ways can we have create a positive environment for students decision making when applying to college? How can we get family involved during this process or what do we do when there is not family involvement during this process? ]]> 2022-04-11 02:34:45 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2138523441 Ashley McCaw akmccaw https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139198975 I appreciated the nuance and holistic view these chapters brought to the craft of college and career counseling - it’s rarely a straight line forward and involves us as counselor’s to balance a lot of spinning plates. 

A question I had that started in chapter two, and persisted in chapter three (when issues of legality and ethics were brought up—specifically not imposing one’s own values on a student,) is about what to do when a student, even after experiencing access and exposure to college and career options, is unable to voice an interest or inclination toward career or college or even a certain kind of work? 

In my current work, those conversations always feel the hardest, when a student says that they don’t know what they want to do other than to work a low-wage job (even after taking interest and aptitude inventories and having exposure to college/career options.) My inclination is to want to motivate and encourage them to have “higher aspirations” and think about their long term quality of life, but where is the line between having high expectations for them and imposing my own values or bias (in this case, that a skilled job, whether it comes from a certificate, trade, 2-year, or 4-year degree will be better for them than working a shift job at a Target)?]]> 2022-04-11 13:53:16 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139198975 Clare Tiemann https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139323016 As I was writing my college reflection paper, I thought to myself, "I really should have gone to community college first". I transferred schools at the end of my junior year, and it ended up taking me 5 1/2 years to obtain my undergraduate degree.

Chapter 2 reminded me of why I didn't consider community college when I was a senior in high school, however-- the stigma that was attached to it pushed me away from even looking into the possibility of completing my first year or two of postsecondary education at a community college. Even more than that, the thought that I could have potentially gone there for two years and then been done altogether never even crossed my mind. To me, just as the textbook says, community college was a "less than" option as far as I was concerned.
Knowing what I know now, community college would have been a great fit for me! Within my school and familial cultures, though, community college was not an option. 
Moving forward, I'm wondering how we as school counselors can present 2 year college programs as a viable option for students? I am planning to work in the Chicago Public Schools system after graduating, and the general impression that I have gotten so far is that culturally, CPS high schools as a whole seem to be 4-year college minded.
I can imagine it may take considerable effort to help not only students see the benefits of a 2 year college, but to change the culture and mindset of the school community, and of the parents of students. ]]> 2022-04-11 15:06:16 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139323016 Andres Jimenez https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139401600 Chapters 2 and 3 did highlight the ins and outs of the pathways of a career by the traditional methods at the university route or work-based learning. This method is great in filling in the gap that needs to be filled for the generation of people that have been retiring in these past years. As a teacher in elementary grade,  I ask students if they have considered what career path they would like to pursue and a high percentage have no idea what field they want to go into.  What seems to be missing in the lower grades are programs or school projects that have students consider their options early in these grades at least in Chicago.  
My question is, why does the Chicago Public School system not have students at younger ages with investigate possible post secondary careers, chapter one mentions the importance of the three ecosystems. If programs have been implemented in CPS I have yet to see an professional development offered. ]]> 2022-04-11 15:52:07 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139401600 Annie Lyons https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139482589 The legal and ethical issues discussed in Chapter 3 really peaked my interest. Conflicting interests of a student and parent can put a counselor in a compromised position. What if a student doesn't want to go to the college that a parent really wants their child to attend? What if a student doesn't want to go college at all? What if a parent does not want their child to go to college, and a student wants to and is completely on their own in the process? There are a number of ways parents and students can have differing view points, so how can a counselor assist the whole family while still being an advocate for the student and following legal and ethical guidelines?]]> 2022-04-11 16:44:34 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139482589 Kelsey Janese https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139544610 What stood out for me most from chapters 2 & 3 was when Curry and Milsom talked about the impact that the '08 recession had on college enrollment and student debt. It has me wondering how the pandemic will impact school funding. I would assume that enrollment is higher since the world was capable of being virtual while tuition then, also continues to climb. How has the pandemic already impacted college and career readiness and long term what changes do we expect to see?

In chapter 3 I was really struck by the ethical standards that a counselor should uphold for students. Primarily, it has me thinking of the ways that I can expand my knowledge around different career paths that are more robust than just college. I want to be an advocate for my students in that way. I think that the more knowledge I have around different career paths, the more I can be an advocate for my students, especially if their parents are challenging their career desires.]]> 2022-04-11 17:22:02 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139544610 Kelly Conway https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139586500 One part of Chapter two that stood out to me was the statistics about the effectiveness of programs that aim to create pathways between secondary and postsecondary education for students in underrepresented groups. Statistics mentioned in this chapter explained that students involved in TRIO programs were more likely to remain in higher education, accrue more college credits, and earn higher GPAs. 
With that being said, I was wondering how more school counselors could get their schools involved in TRIO programs? The effectiveness these programs have for unrepresented students seems incredible, so how could we help more schools be involved with these community partners?]]> 2022-04-11 17:48:29 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139586500 Juan Manuel Hernandez https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139636487 What caught my interest was of how we will have to help out different students including students who had exceptional needs. I wonder how different it would look helping students through the college process and what are some considerations to keep in mind?]]> 2022-04-11 18:20:53 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139636487 Adedapo Akisanya https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139648478 After reading chapters two and three, a very interesting question came up in chapter 2 about whether college pays off or not. I found this topic very interesting as the book explains a story of  a school counselor who was advising students of the career path of Certified Nurses Assistant CNA as a possible career option if they did not want to go the 4 year route and receive a BSN in Nursing. This was the only two options she offered the and when asked if she was aware of a sonography position also in the medical field she responded with a no.  In the African American community there's a lot of discussion about the fear of student debt as it pertains to going to college and this is a reason why some choose not to attend college, but in making that choice they also choose not to pursue education at all. The book explains that because we are mostly taught or think of education in terms of a four year degree it's important as counselors to start to teach students that there are multiple pathways in education in order to pursue a specific career and students need to be reminded of this.  I guess my question is how we consolidate this information in one place so that a counselor can be able to use that resource in the form of a book or website as a resource to answer multiple questions students might have about whether college pays off or not.]]> 2022-04-11 18:28:44 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139648478 Liz Martin martinelizabethallison https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139663108 Hate to be that person who comments on the beginning of the chapter, but under the "does college pay off" section really got my gears turning. The author mentioned that the counselor never considered other careers in medicine that did not require a BA or wasn't nursing. 
This is a big issue that bothers me so much working at career technical educational high school. I'm in a constant state of rage lol. I happened to be following around the counselors as they were helping student request their classes for the next school year (because I'm the programmer and wanted to make sure there weren't any technical issues) and their was a girl complaining that she was stuck in the carpentry course because she, "doesn't want build houses" there were some comments along the lines of "the pay is great!" which the freshmen didn't seem concerned about in the moment. I had to jump in and told the art loving kid that she can become a professional art framer! She could become a high end furniture designer/maker, home/building inspector, land or building manager. work in the movies and theatres building sets!! I was so shocked because carpentry skills are so ridiculously transferrable. ]]> 2022-04-11 18:38:58 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139663108 Matt Kriser mattkriser37 https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139680490 Chapter 2 really opened my eyes to how challenging a conversation may be with some students on guiding them on the right path.  The right path is a complicated concept because the factors that go into that decision feel endless.  Understanding the student is vital in that guidance.  Economic background, family dynamics, individual interests, supports that exist and will exist after graduation and unfortunately, many more potential issues that come into play in their future.  

My question is how do counselors with huge workloads and in schools that don't differentiate CCR counselors manage to gather all that information and have the time to properly guide all of their students into an informative decision seeing that there is so much to understand about each individual student?]]> 2022-04-11 18:51:48 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139680490 Ethan Ridgell https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139738934 Reading Chapter 2 really got me thinking about student loans, and stufent loan debt. First, the fact that student loans total 1.2 million is digusting. And the fact that they have tripled from 2004 to 2014 is frankly heartbreaking. Then i think back on the documentary that we watched for our asych assignment, and the fact that there are so many unfilled positions that require high degrees. Many people dont choose college for fear of high student loan debt, this is true in many low-income families. It makes me wonder what our country could due to accomidate this better. ]]> 2022-04-11 19:37:13 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139738934 Lucas Pedersen https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139764868 Reading this week really made me think about my own college experience and how I can use it to relate to students I work with.  A lot of my own college choice process was based off of what other people said about schools and I eliminated a lot of potential ones even before doing any research, simply off the word of those I talked to.  It got me wondering about how students respond to outside sources of information and how much of an impact they have.

My question is: I want to know if there is a “sweet spot” for giving your own recommendations to students about colleges. Obviously they’ll come to you for advice/recommendations, but I specifically want to know where to cut off my own personal opinion and leave it up to them. ]]> 2022-04-11 19:58:37 UTC https://padlet.com/agilbe16/pjh7s2usmdjfw1zj/wish/2139764868