Workshop 2 - Defining Children with Complex Needs in Gloucestershire by

2024-10-15 09:40:25 UTC

We need to clarify the in/out criteria for these factors.

We need consensus around mental ill health to reconcile both sides of the slide.

Tier 4 placements

2024-10-15 09:40:33 UTC

There are children and young people who have been admitted to Tier 4 settings (generally from living at home) that are not known to CYPMARP or High Cost

2024-10-15 09:40:54 UTC

For ease of reference I'd also look to PBENG.

2024-10-15 09:41:05 UTC

Often not.

main conclusions

2024-10-15 09:41:37 UTC

that a definition, criteria and assessment should be collaboratively undertaken to determine the needs and who and how we will meet these.

2024-10-15 09:42:05 UTC

Not always. However in part this is due to not always having a multi-agency formulation of what placement the child actually needs and how other services will support them

2024-10-15 09:42:21 UTC

Need to consider thresholds for children and young people to be considered in or out

2024-10-15 09:42:27 UTC

Analysis of need and joined-up evidence-based support.

Joined up commissioning packages.

Tracking progress through intensive packages/interventions to prevent drift and delay.

Shortage of (for want of a better phrase) tier 3.5 provision.

critical friend/challenge

2024-10-15 09:42:43 UTC

method of independently reviewing decision making through GSCB

2024-10-15 09:43:30 UTC

Step down provision through Trevone Wellbeing units.

There are no agreed threshold or definition to guide professionals.

2024-10-15 09:44:48 UTC

There are only a very small number of children, namely 48, who currently are in scope for CYPMARP. This is a very small percentage of the children requiring additional support.

Secure/Remand residential homes

2024-10-15 09:44:51 UTC

Specialist residential schools

foster care

2024-10-15 09:45:16 UTC

there are children with complex needs that are undiagnosed so are not catergorised as 'complex needs' . we look at and respond to behaviour rather than trauma , mental health, etc

2024-10-15 09:45:21 UTC

Sadly no, due to availability of appropriate provision; whether that is residential provision or a foster home.

2024-10-15 09:47:27 UTC

There isn't necessarily need for a clear definition of what's in/out or what complex needs means. What we need is to be able to recognise between services/across agencies how we work together to meet the presenting needs of children. The scope of the services (and their roles) is the problem not the definition of 'complex'.

'Qualifying health needs' is a justification of funding agreements.

Not always as where young people require health intervention, health settings are not always homely, but on the other hand homely settings do not have the equipment and environment to provide health care

2024-10-15 09:48:38 UTC

Joint Funding agreement, lack of resources, lack of specialist skills from carers

2024-10-15 09:49:35 UTC

2024-10-15 10:03:25 UTC

If we are defining someone as having 'complex needs' I wouldn't expect them to live in Supported Accommodation (they are unregistered in this scenario).

Availability

2024-10-15 10:03:51 UTC

2024-10-15 10:04:23 UTC

Lack of specialist knowledge and skills

Within Reach

2024-10-15 10:05:23 UTC

Example with a young person progressing well in their health and wellbeing, able to progress GCSEs and to independence slowly

2024-10-15 10:05:45 UTC

it is based on exploring the market. it is often when they are at their most vulnerable as we are usually reacting to a behaviour

2024-10-15 10:05:49 UTC

Often the 'right place' doesn't exist and we have to accept that. What we are continuing to struggle with is how we utilise our community and multi-agency services to provide the right support even if the placement isn't perfect

Lack of cohesive understanding of needs

2024-10-15 10:06:02 UTC

2024-10-15 10:06:16 UTC

reacting to a behaviour - at a point of crisis

Cost

2024-10-15 10:06:16 UTC

2024-10-15 10:06:57 UTC

some residential homes have well trianed staff who can meet childrens needs

2024-10-15 10:07:09 UTC

There is a focus on developing a definition due to funding issues and agreement of responsibility in relation to CiC. There are a high number of children who could easily be defined as having complex needs but live at home

collaborative multi agency care planning

2024-10-15 10:07:28 UTC

2024-10-15 10:08:44 UTC

A focus on the child's presenting needs and why these are happening, responding to the underlying cause as opposed to solely focusing on finding a placement