Notes on Disappointment with God - Seeing in the Dark by Jim Frederick https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6 Questions, answers and comments on MC B2 en-us 2022-01-12 12:46:48 UTC 2022-05-16 12:52:53 UTC hello@padlet.com Seniors Ch. 21 - Interrupted danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2148099158 Summary:
Almost everyone wants a God that is not silent and hidden. The Bible contained some surprises that the miracles didn’t strengthen faith. The more we learn about the Bible, the less we will miss the "good old days." He can perform miracles and punish the people but He didn't. He wishes to be loved and to be adored by others. The Bible demonstrates a clear development in God's 'ability' to meet out to humans without burdening them: from God the Father, who parentally over the Hebrews, to God the Son, who instructed God's will, and to the Holy Spirit, who settles us with God's literal existence. God chose to depend on us to carry out His will on the universe. God wants to reconcile, love, and be loved. Endurance is the capacity to transform a challenging situation into a source of glory.
 
Question:
5. The Bible records many stories about people who were able to get to Jesus and be healed. Do you think there were many more stories about sick people who wanted very badly to get to Jesus but couldn’t get there? Might that be similar to the account we have read in this chapter?
 
Answer:
Yes. There are probably many people that did not reach Jesus in time. I can imagine it could end up very similar though those in Jesus' time who didn't get healed may have seen it as more of a wild chance than modern Christians should.]]> 2022-04-19 06:15:02 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2148099158 Juniors - Chapter 21 Interrupted harambae1 https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2148492282
Summary
The more Yancey read through the Bible, the less desire he had for the “good old days” of the Old Testament. He then found and read a little from Meg Woodson. Meg Woodson had two children with cystic fibrosis, Peggie and Joey. They both grew up knowing they would die early, and while Joey died when he was 12, Peggie was able to live and even attend college. However, Peggie too died at the age of 23. Woodson questioned why God let Peggie die, despite Peggie believing in God wholeheartedly and even being willing to sacrifice herself for him. This letter shocked Yancey, and caused him to reconsider how he should go about finishing his book.
You sent

Question
What can we expect from God?

Answer 
Our expectations to God is usually selfish, such as healing, or providing for things we think we need, however God provides us with what is best for us, and only he knows what is best for us. We may think social relations, material goods such as the latest phone, is necesarily for our fulfillment, but the truth is that when we do obtain those, we may get temporary satisfaction, but in the long term only disappoints us. From God we can expect something that we truly need in our lives that we may never expect.
]]> 2022-04-19 12:29:04 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2148492282 Juniors - Chapter 22 The Only Problem eliasgappmayr https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2151992417 Summary 
In this chapter, the question arrises once again: Why does God let good things happen to bad people, and vice versa?
When we are concerned with suffering and unjustice, we turn to the book of Job. However, once we have analyzed this dramatic story, we discover that the main theme is not suffering, but actually faith. Yancy offers that the situation Job was put through was, instead of unjust punishment, a trial of faith. God has seen the strong faith in Job, and wanted to polish it further. Harsh test of faith refined the gold, prooving its worth in the stress of the scorching fire. 

Question 
How can a good God allow suffering?

Answer
In order for there to be good, there also has to be bad. If you were born to only see the color white, then you cannot see black. 
Suffering refines. Strong faith will hold on even if circumstances make life diffiult. At the same time, these trials can also cause that faith to grow, and become stronger.

]]> 2022-04-21 12:56:44 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2151992417 Seniors Ch. 22 - The Only Problen danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2152002966 Summary:
This chapter uses the book of Job to provide a different perspective into his story and to answer the following question: How can a good God allow suffering?  The book of Job is not about suffering, rather it is about having faith in the darkest times. Job was so close to giving up but in the end his faith saved him. God himself did not want to put Job through all that suffering. Satan questioned the integrity of God, and God believed Job could do it so He allowed Satan to take everything away from him except his life. A great man of God suffered way more than he deserved but still stuck with God. His story is a great example of humanity in today’s day and age where everything is like “a man confronting the abyss in a universe that makes no sense.”

Question:
2. What do you think about Yancey’s conclusion that the book of Job is not primarily about suffering but about faith?

Answer:
Agree in some regards. Job's faith was definitely tested in the book. In the end, God talks about how He knows and sees so much more than us, and His plan is above our understanding, so it is also about the holiness of God and how His ways are beyond us.

]]> 2022-04-21 13:04:05 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2152002966 Seniors Ch. 23 - A Role in the Cosmos danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2156014193 Summary:
The chapter tells how Job was put in place for God in His wager against Satan. Shows two worlds coming together and gives a slight glimpse into God’s perspective. Every choice and action has cosmic consequences and so God is greatly affected by our constant sin but also that our faith is just as important and grand. Job was not conditioned to love God but truly had relationships not based on material things. Will we trust God knowing that we can make a difference in a cosmic sense, if not a worldly sense?

Question:
4. He goes on to state that our response to testing matters very much to God. Are we really exhibits of God on public
display to be seen by angels as well as other people?

Answer:
No? The word exhibit is a bit strange... Maybe testing would be more personal between God and the person being tested? Maybe if we succeed in testing, God will 'reveal' His/our success??


]]> 2022-04-25 06:37:49 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2156014193 Seniors Ch. 23 - A Role in the Cosmos tonysantos https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2156487098 Summary:
Job was put in God's place in a cosmic showdown between God and Satan. This often goes over people's heads, but there is an unseen world- one from God's perspective. The story of Job helped in revealing this, especially emphasising that every little action has a huge consequence in this stellar wager. Furthermore, we have freedom of choice in deciding which side we stand on in this battle. Will we choose God to guide us?
Question:
Is it absurd to think that one human being can make a difference in the history of the universe?
Answer:
Yes, it is absurd. Humans, in terms of the history of the rest of the universe, has only existed for a very short amount of time, like a single line on a toilet paper roll. We are quite insigificant beings on a tiny planet which, in comparision to the universe, is even smaller than dust. However, while it is truly absurd, it is the truth. Humans, being God's creations that were made in his image, deeply affects God, the creator of the universe. Hence, despite the fact that we are weak and insigificant beings compared to the rest of the universe, we do impact the rest of the universe.]]> 2022-04-25 13:05:01 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2156487098 Seniors Ch. 24 - Is God Unfair? danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2160139975 Summary:
People either think life should be more equitable, God does not exist, God is not powerful enough, unfairness is temporary, that life is actually unfair, or try to find God's motives. There are people in this world who live joyful and productive lives without ever knowing God. Douglas developed the ability to see beyond reality. God's response to the question of lack of fairness was not in words, but in the form of an Incarnation. The Cross of Christ may have triumphed over evil, but it did not triumph over injustice. Under God's rule, all reality will be regained to its proper place. Jesus' life was the most unfair moment in all of time.

Question:
7. Do you think we need to develop a relationship with God apart from our life circumstances so that we can hold on when the physical reality breaks down?

Answer:
I think that we should have a relationship with God that is integrated with our lives but also separated. I don't think our relationship should be solely connected to reality, but I also think we need God in our daily lives.]]> 2022-04-27 10:32:33 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2160139975 Juniors Chapter 24 - Is God Unfair? harambae1 https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2160413690 Summary:
Injustice and unfairness has existed from the days of Job, and still persists to today. When Job was faced with suffering, he began to question whether God was really fair or not. When faced with unfairness, which in the modern world is quite visible, people react differently. Some turn away from God, some believe that he is fair but too weak to do anything about the injustices, some believe the world is fair, but justice occurs over multiple lives. Finally, some simply outright deny that the world is unfair. Christians sometimes deal with this by toning down the unfairness, giving it a hidden reason. Douglas is like a modern day Job, as while he was righteous, he faced many hardships, such as getting in a car accident, and his wife suffering from cancer. However, he does not blame God, as God is not the physical life we live in. We can have faith in God despite the unfairness, and we must know that God has faced the greatest unfairness when Jesus was crucified.

Question:
Have you noticed that good people often suffer while bad people prosper?

Answer:
Bad people often rise to power and prosper as they follow the rules of this world which is being selfish and prideful. Good people often suffer as they do not comform to this world's ways. However, in the end, bad people will be the ones being judged and destroyed, as stated by Pslams 73:17-20. The world may appear unfair, but in the end, everything is governed by God, and he has plans for everything.

]]> 2022-04-27 13:51:44 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2160413690 Seniors Ch. 25 - Why God Doesn't Explain danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2163806426 Summary:
The beginning of this chapter started with a summary of parts of Job. In this text God basically tells Job that he could never understand how God thinks or runs His creation. The chapter then moves towards unanswered questions that often come up in our lives as Christians. Things such as: Why is life so unfair?; When does God cause suffering and when does He merely permit it?; and why is God silent? Philip brings up the point that maybe God doesn’t answer because we are incapable of comprehending the answer. Sometimes even a clear answer doesn’t help the situation. Time is also mentioned in this chapter, Yancy goes into detail saying that time is based on the observer. He then goes on to use a supernova and its observation on earth as an example of God’s perspective of time.

Question:
1. Do you ever think you deserve a personal visit from God? If you got one, how would you like a visit similar to Job’s visit from God?

Answer:
Don't think anyone really deserves any form of God's favor (as we are sinful before Christ). It would possibly be good to experience something like Job experience (humilty). Though, you would expect God to curate the experience to have more effect and speak to you.

]]> 2022-04-29 05:27:39 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2163806426 Juniors Ch. 25 - Why God Doesn't Explain tonysantos https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2164326296 Summary:
To start, Yancey talks about Job again, and how God's speech toward him made him realise that humans don't fully comprehend God- all of the power and omnipotence that allows Him to run the physical universe. Yancey then brings up even more questions. Why is life unfair? Why is God so inconsistent with his communication? He brings up two main points, and they revolve around ignorance. Perhaps ignorance would benefit us more because we cannot comprehend many things. Yancey finally switches to the concept of time, but more importantly, the idea that we have to remember the things that God did for us in the past, no matter how long ago it may seem.
Question:
Why do you think God’s response to Job was enough for Job? Would it be enough for you?
Answer:
For Job, he had first hand experience with God. He knew God was 100% in control of everything and all he needed to do was trust. For us, however, it was kind of lacking. To go through all that and receive a lackluster lecture would be disheartening.

]]> 2022-04-29 13:46:45 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2164326296 Seniors Ch. 26 - Is God Silent? danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2169795492 Summary:
Faith demands uncertainty and confusion. There are two types of faith, “Seed faith”, which is a childlike trust; simply trust God and you will feel no burden. The second type is “Fidelity”, which is a deeper, more mysterious type of faith. Fidelity requires one to hang on despite the circumstances. Life with God includes both types of faith. At times we will experience God’s intimacy and closeness, other times it will feel like we are lost in the fog. We have to learn to live knowing that despite the fog, God is still God and He is always there. When we experience the fog like Job, it helps our faith and intimacy with God. It may feel like God leaves at the worst time, but when we exercise our fidelity towards God, that is when we best express our love for Him. The crucifixion shows us that God understands our pain and is familiar with our grief and the resurrection shows that suffering will never win.

Question:
8. Why does God allow suffering to his "favorites", which seems to be the conclusion drawn by the book?

Answer:
God works all pain and suffering that we may experience for good internally and externally. Persevering through suffering matures faith and trust in God. Showing our steadfastness may inspire others, as well. We cannot imagine how God uses our suffering and efforts.]]> 2022-05-04 12:11:11 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2169795492 Juniors Ch. 26 - Is God Silent? harambae1 https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2169915776 Summary
As Yancey's friend, Job found himself completely engulfed in the fog of unknowingness. Job did not know at all why God put him through this hard, and unfair time. Yet, Job remained faithful to God until the end. This pleased God, as it showed that Job had complete and solid commitment to Him. As we look at the heroes of faith in the Bible, we notice that none of them were omitted from harsh times, but were even more so dragged through them. As a result of them holding on tight to God through these times, we see that their faith has become much more solid and stronger. Not even Jesus was exempt from such experiences. He held on tight till the end. He died, but rose again as a conqueror. Similarly, God will make us conquerors, if we hold on faithfully.

Question
If you can't prove it, why have faith?

Answer
Faith is keeping reason in times of uncertainity and in times of hardships, and keeping you from letting your emotions take you over. Even in math, you cannot 100% prove everything, as you have to assume postulates to be true to prove anything.  You assume these postulates to be true because they are reasonable. It is the same with Christianity, while we cannot prove Christianity, we know that Christianity is what is reasonable, so we have faith in it even in times of suffering. 
]]> 2022-05-04 13:32:59 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2169915776 Seniors Ch. 27 - Why God Doesn't Intervene danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2172917681 Summary:
It seems that Christians always attribute seemingly coincidental things to God when they can be explained away easily through natural means. Is it really true if one could just pretend and get the same results? CS Lewis describes transposition in which the supernatural is expressed through seemingly normal, natural means. Many today only look 'at the beam' instead of 'along it's, strangling their perspective (reductionism). In reality, the 'lower' world is a transposition of the 'higher' world but many seem to prefer the lesser one than the higher one. God is seeking to rejoin the spiritual and natural world together. He works through the body of Christ - the Church. Christians gain the ability to see 'along the beam' because they are reconnected spiritually - seeing the supernatural in the natural.

Question:
5. Yancey gave a very long description of the transposition of music from the original source to media and then to our brain through the ears. If you are thinking about all these details, does that ruin the experience of just listening to the beauty of the music?

Answer:
It does not change much. It does give a new perspective, but doesn't really influence how music is perceived to any great extent.]]> 2022-05-06 13:53:07 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2172917681 Juniors Ch. 27 - What God Doesn't Intervene harambae1 https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2177552103 Summary
At first glance, there is not much difference between believers and non-believers. Even for those that seem highly “spiritual”, you can probably explain it away with psychology. This way of thinking is called reductionism: explaining complex processes by breaking it down into simpler things. This process has allowed us to make technological advancements, but it also makes us think of life as something less. We begin to see life as nothing but a mass of proteins and DNA. Things that are lower may even be seen as more appealing than higher things. However, these lower things are what represents the higher thing. Proteins and DNA come together to create a human being. Finally, these two viewpoints are not exclusive. They are simply two sides of the same coin, or same beam of light. As Christianis, we should also take in account of the higher view.

Question
Define “reductionism” in terms of a beam of light in a dark room. Describe some of the beauty and awesomeness of life that can be lost doing this. Do you see “reductionism” at work in our world today through all that we have learned through science? Can you see how doing this creates a world hostile to faith?

Answer
This question assumes that the process of reductionism does cause the awesomeness of life to be “lost” when looked at from a “reduced” point of view. However, this does not take in account of the fact that some may think the complete opposite. A “reduced” point of view makes life even more awesome than simply looking at it as a whole. Who studies biology, learns about the complicated process that powers life, cellular respiration, phosphorylation cascades, signal transduction, mitosis, meiosis, and thinks that life is “simple”? By looking at things from a smaller point of view, the big thing may seem even more awesome. A person walking, on its own, may seem dull, but if you look at the biological processes that go into making a person walk, something dull may seem much more amazing.

]]> 2022-05-10 13:02:00 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2177552103 Seniors Ch. 28 - Is God Hidden? danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2177563750 Summary:
Most of human beings forget God when they are very happy and have no sense of needing God. When they are desperate of something, they started to have the feeling needing God.  Even though Job had done absolutely nothing wrong and was begging for help, God decided to remain hidden in Job's story. The Bible appears to predict our disappointments, as if God gives us the weapons to use against him in beforehand, as if God Himself comprehends the cost of maintaining faith. The Book of Job provides two additional responses to such dissatisfaction with God. The first was demonstrated by Job's friends, who were outraged by his attacks on the most fundamental tenets of their trust. The book of Job conveys a strong message: you can say anything to God. God can deal with every human reaction.

Question:
1.    Do you find the documented hiddenness of God at the time when He is most needed by His followers one of the most difficult things to comprehend? Any ideas why this happens?

Answer:
It is one of the most difficult things because without God, we may feel extremely lost. I'd say that we need God 100% of the time; in times of great joy and times of pain and suffering. Sometimes when we get distracted by the world and lose God, everything feels wrong, life feels like a clueless path. When God isn't there even when we are still with him, life sometimes feels meaningless.]]> 2022-05-10 13:08:54 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2177563750 Juniors Ch. 28 Is God Hidden? eliasgappmayr https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2177579750 Summary:
 Job had a lot happening in his life that is worth whining over. However, the center of his complaints, as yeancy puts it, was not only the loss of family, house and properties, but a large part was also the hiddeness of God in Job's time of grief and pain. Job simply did not understand why God, firstly, let all this happen to Job, but furthermore not reveal Himself, untouched by Job's numerous pleads and cries for this comfort. This reality hurt Job immensely. Job threw all of these complains on God, everything. In the end, God appears to Job, and he realizes the position he is in, and the greatness of God's plans-- how incomprihensable they are. Job held through, and was rewarded for his efforts. From the book of Job, we learn that God is never hidden. Sometimes, it appears like that, and then it is our duty to have strong faith, choosing to believe that He is there. It's a process that sharpens the sense.

Question: 
It might be difficult to comprehend, as it seems like God is showing cowardliness and lacking love for His children as He hides Himself in their times of need. However, this is not the case, as Yancy describes that we always know that God is with us, even when it seems that He is not. It is a matter of trust and faith-- if we succeed to believe, our faith will become much stronger and mature. This is part of God's greater plan for us, the plan that we cannot comprehend, but have to trust in, as He truly knows what is good for us.]]> 2022-05-10 13:18:09 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2177579750 Seniors Ch. 29 - Why Job Died Happy danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2181642993 Summary:
Job does not die feeling unsatisfied, disappointed, or upset with God. Rather, the book of Job ends in serenity. God's presence and appearance is what counted. Job before God's presence is what life on earth is like while Job after God's reveal is a hint of what heaven will be like. Miracles don't work to get rid of disappointment. They are only pointers to the hope and promise of heaven. Our earthly sufferings our temporary and we just have to persevere and wait until we are united with God in heaven. We are homesick for heaven.

Question:
7. Do you see the longings for the world as God originally created it in such things as environmental movements, peace
movements and therapy groups?

Answer:
Yes, we all seem to long for a more perfect world, or a world that aligns more to what we think if perfect, or right. These movements are attempting to right the wrongs of this world to fix that feeling of longing and wrongness in the world.]]> 2022-05-12 17:15:33 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2181642993 Juniors Ch 29 - Why Job Died Happy tonysantos https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2182874335 Summary:
Contrary to what the common person might have predicted, Job did not pass away with angry, disappointed sentiment against God. Instead, he repented, even when he was "still sitting in a pile of rubble, naked, [and] covered with sores." Furthermore, the idea that faith sprouts good works and "positions us to do His will" is developed. Yancey then talks about the coming good news, and that although we suffer endlessly during our life in the seen, real world, there will be infinite happiness in heaven. As Yancey said, these glimpses of happiness "previews of the good news described at the end of Revelation." Ultimately, all our our hardships are temporary, and we long for our home in heaven.
Question:
Do you see the longings for the world as God originally created it in such things as environmental movements,
peace movements and therapy groups?
Answer:
We all want to achieve great things and have goals, and we feel like once we accomplish them, everything will be all right and we will be able to achieve utopia. However, the truth is that even when we have fullfileld our goals, we still feel empty, and we wish for more. This wish is the wish for heaven, as heaven, unlike anything on Earth, can actually and completely fullfill our wishes and desires. Because unlike things on earth, it is infinite.]]> 2022-05-13 13:24:42 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2182874335 Seniors Ch. 30 - Two Wagers, Two Parables danieldunham https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2185493634 Summary:
Yancey opens the final chapter with the question: Is anyone watching? Then he proceeds to talk about the night he had his first true religious encounter and explains that conversions only make sense to those who get converted. Richard did not understand because he was looking “at the beam” while Philip was looking “along the beam.” We have to choose where our faith lies; whether to live as God exists or as if He does not. Using the parable of the boy who killed his father, Yancy proposes that the alternative to disappointment with God is disappointment without God.

No question...]]> 2022-05-16 10:50:15 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2185493634 Seniors Ch. 30 harambae1 https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2185648106 Summary
Yancey gained his faith when he had his first real religious experience when he prayed for the first time in a weekly prayer meeting during his time at Bible college, when he stated his disregard to the university students towards God. He then had a vision of Jesus trying to save him, and him rejecting him. Richard explained this as a psychological phenomenon, but Yancey saw it as a sign from God. These are two views of the same beam of light. Yancey ends his book by using two parables that explain faith. In one, a son killed his father because he hated him, but later wanted him back, representing how many people have rejected God but still have a longing for something. The second parable was his own story, where his dying father loved him despite Yancey never knowing him.

Question
Does the God of the Bible actually exist? If you truly believe that He
does, then it means that at some time your life drastically changed.

Answer
In mathematics, you have to assume axioms and postulates to be true to prove any theorems. It is similar with life. You have to have faith in God and believe in Jesus to be able to improve and change your life to be better.

]]> 2022-05-16 12:52:53 UTC https://padlet.com/jimfrederick/nzcaegseq1cpurr6/wish/2185648106