We had a second talk in your studio. There I saw your grand visual and textual mind map. We discussed how this could already be a kind of mind map. We talked about how you like to work like that. You said you like to think and work associatively. It's kind of divergent thinking. You also told me that you were already writing stuff. That some parts were almost ready to send to me. I'm looking forward to it. I also saw your work/paintings, where you combine the stillness of painting with the mobile phone as the subject matter. While the stream of info from the digital phone seems not to have an end your paintings seem to calm it down, as if we like a Rembrandt look with attention to the absurd addictive power of that screen, shining its luring light in our face.

-the word 'goal' is also a bit contradictory

-Wu Wei - working by finding things during the walking, the goal is to find a goal -> more closer to the artistic process -> start with something go in a different direction

-The unexpected - relation with Bergson; we work with certain pre-dispositions, but sometimes our way of doing clashes with an unexpected thing (factor 'Z') -> find something they were not looking for -> things don't always turn out the way they want them to -> artistic process -> leads to thinking and making.

-Functionality - the function is something with a goal; products having a purpose;

-Can we work without a goal? The goal is to not have a goal.

The mind of the computer is a rational one -> the artistic mind does not want to get in a trap of knowing what is expected.

-Spiral - accumilating knowledge - become specialized in something or you move out of the spiral; ciclical way of working

-Dutch artist playing guitar; due to its botily knowledge the body wrote the songs for him -> began looking for another 'Z' (began playign the guitar)

-Inpired by invironment - cave paintings - the cave men began seeing figures in the cave and they began seeing figures of animals;

-Observation;

-Allgorithm - always making our world; tailor made for us;

-Budish - there is a difference between knowing and realizing; you can only know things once you experience them

-Creative process - is personal; open to fall;

-Hero myths -> wants something -> expereinces something -> gains the knowledge

-Bursou - romantic philosopher, changed education; before chirdren were taught how to behave -> now let the child experience and learn with the teacher behind them; you can't completely let the person just swim, there is a balance needed.

Neo-materialize - don't talk about material and idea rather blend them

-Senate - thinking and making in the process something else happens; what happens in the process of the art

-Book about the education - Michel Sandel - education; problem with the society; diploma society; its looked down on practical

-the Greeks - the liberal aritsts (maths; physics etc.); mechanical arts;

-Rennaisance - the hierarchy was a big broken down -> artists becan using maths; physics; etc.-> became respect

-PhD and artisic research- how do we assess research?

-Andres Stulchins - PhD;

-James Gleik

-I don't fit there -> I can give something

-The lines between the art and scienes

-Theory and knowledge is throwing the idea of experimenting and critical thinking

-Artist in Rotterdam working with collecting peoople from different specialities together and he gives artistic way of thinking