Remake of LOTF Ch.10 Discussion 11-4A by Ms. Grace https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry "The Sell and the Glasses" en-us 2020-04-16 15:13:20 UTC 2020-04-17 08:24:19 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet.net/icons/png/1f437.png Alberto Hans 114a https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512285762 As the story progresses we could see the degradation of innocence, as innocence fade away from the boys evil take over them. At the end of chapter 8 the lord of the flies said “You knew, didn’t you? I’m part of you?”, this meant that the beast was in each and every one of the boys. Civilization might bring peace but it will never remove the evil inside us. The evil creates savagery and this is what broke the boys into tribes and kill Simon. Evil will continue to tear them apart and this is just human nature. Golding wanted to emphasis human nature and just how hopeless we actually are and this is very concerning.
 ]]> 2020-04-17 08:02:33 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512285762 Rachel Tattianna https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512285979
It is quite clear that if mankind had two natures; good and evil, Golding chose to highlight the evil nature of men in "Lord of the Flies". The novel brings to light how when placed upon utter freedom, humans have a tendency to make the choice to act on savagery; selfishness; evil.   Throughout the pages, we see the progression of degradation of civility--or rather the unveiling savagery as human nature and the often vague, yet gruesome details to prove so. "At once the crowd surged after it, poured down the rock, leapt on to the beast, screamed, struck, bit, tore. "]]> 2020-04-17 08:02:41 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512285979 Kathleen SM 11 4A https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512286110 From the novel we can see that the story tells of a tale that involves a group young boys. And such it would be a symbolism of purity to some since age would define purity in many ways. Yet in the novel we see that even for their age they have done acts of savagery, one such action would be the climactic tale of the demise of a soft spoken and kind yet aloof character by the name of Simon. Simon was murdered by these boys, and what we can learn from this action would as seen in the novel in which many characters have said their opinions of the event that had taken place. Such actions would be when Piggy had stated in (225) that it was an accident as a way to cover up his own actions, while Ralph refers to it as murder (224). These two actions show they knew what they were doing but they participated on it anyways, and it shows that the vileness of humanity resides in everyone even if they are pure young boys. While there is also Jack who actively knew this information and continued to manipulate the idea as he kept up the image of a beast (230). Which furthers the idea that they didn’t need this taught to them and yet all this blood was shed by their own doings. It shows the evil that was inside them from the beginning.
 

]]> 2020-04-17 08:02:46 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512286110 Adriel Glenneast 11-4A https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512286117 Mankind has no hope, even if we had them before, we sure don't have them now. In chapter 7, we can see how the boys are starting to lose it by going too far with their games and jokes around about using a little’un to stab. It’s not that we’re evil, it’s just primal desire for power tends to overpower our civilized way of thinking.


]]> 2020-04-17 08:02:46 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512286117 Brigida Leony https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512287177 This book show how people can control themselves and act civilized, but this book also shows how deep inside each of us has a savage and evil nature. In chapter 10 we can see that there is no hope for mankind because as we can see in Ralph tribe where they tried to act civilized, they can’t find food and have hopes to live like Jack’s tribe. ]]> 2020-04-17 08:03:24 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512287177 Edbert https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512287186 I think the critics are just like such because of how Golding describes every single scene of death or anything that has co relation with savagery. Like when they hunt the sow, Golding gives all the details. So detail that readers can imagine just by reading it for a while. Even Jack's savagery really shows up, which ended up killing one of his fellow survivor. Simon wasn't a bad person, but just because of how Jack killed him, made it looks like there is no hope, because they killed each other. What's more is that this is near the end of the chapter, or it looks like for me at least, and there is still no sign of rescue, instead, there's only sign of Jack's savagery.]]> 2020-04-17 08:03:25 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512287186 Catherine / 11-4A https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512287252 2020-04-17 08:03:27 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512287252 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512288290 In the novel as we can see, there is a lot of savagery. Golding pick the characters are children. Children don't know anything about politics and organize things. So the kids resemble how mankind is. They will compete for authority. They will do anything so they can rule others, even if its using force. The critics saw the meaning of golding's writing. Mankind is evil inside and they will never be satisfied.]]> 2020-04-17 08:04:05 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512288290 Enzo Ferdinand https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512289680 When reading the book a lot of us can feel very hopeless because we read about examples of how civilised people can turn into savages so fast. And it doesn’t help that the characters are just kids. Kids are not affected by politics, morals, and other thing. So reading about how they killed Simon during the 10th Chapter can be very hard to imagine it really happening.]]> 2020-04-17 08:04:55 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512289680 Throughout this novel, Golding has definitely put a clear theme of the novel, civilization and savagery, or good and evil. He believed that human is actually evil, is shown when Ralph and Piggy joined the tribe's dance. Ralph and Piggy is on the "good" side, but they can become "evil". There is no hope for mankind because savagery take over the world, people tend to show their savage side and so "evil" will win over good, in this novel which is Ralph losing to Jack on leadership and there is no hope for them to survive. https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512289709 2020-04-17 08:04:56 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512289709 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512290967 I personally have the same opinion as those critics. The author chose savagery as the main theme, and I think savagery is a symbol of humans' ego and evilness. When, Jack makes his own tribe, savagery is already controlling him, which makes them separated into two different groups. That scene might be interpreted as humans' can lose their logic and controlled by evilness instead. And when Ralph and Piggy join the dance, it could be interpreted that it's impossible for humans to be always good and think straight. There's no hope for mankind to make a good world since evil is naturally part of their lives.]]> 2020-04-17 08:05:37 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512290967 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512291879 I think that critiques find that Golding's main theme as so because in this story, he tells a story about boys that symbolizes different things at which are complete opposite. Jack who symbolizes savagery and Ralph and Piggy who symbolizes civilization. But, throughout the novel, Golding plots that at times Ralph is tempted to join in and did joined in savage acts Jack and his boys did such as killing the pig, joined the dance that killed Simon, etc. This indicates that even the civilization that is "good" has somewhat the evilness of savagery deep down and this makes as if there is no hope for mankind. ]]> 2020-04-17 08:06:10 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512291879 Answer https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512291971 I think why critics feel that Golding's main themes are that there is no hope for mankind is because in the novel, Golding shows how easily Jack get power because of his ability to hunt and how savages he is. In the other side, Ralph who represent civilization, did not get as much respect as Jack did. ]]> 2020-04-17 08:06:13 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512291971 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512292288 I believe it's because the symbolization of 'hope' in the book keeps getting killed. Simon knew about the "beast", he would've brought hope to the boys. However, he was killed and the boys still think there's a beast. Golding then shows the evil side of mankind mainly through Jack's character. Jack has no mercy, he's willing to do everything to get power and abuses it. Critics might also interpret Ralph's savage side as something he's born with, but just hidden because he's more civilized. Hence, they think Golding's main theme is that evil is an inborn mankind trait.]]> 2020-04-17 08:06:25 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512292288 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512292332 Critics may have feel that Golding only shed a light on the bad side of humanity. It is true that what Golding depicts shows as if  humanity have no hope left but I feel that there is still hope for humanity. "He wanted to explain how people were never quite what you thought they were" this quote from the book helps us understand that people sometimes have underlying motives that we can't see, which creates the society we are now in. ]]> 2020-04-17 08:06:27 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512292332 Answer: https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512293154 The theme that explained that evil is an inborn trait of mankind was shown in chapter 8 where Simon met The Lord of The Flies. The pig’s head on a stick, as what Simon referred to, was a symbol of the 🤬 himself that was said to live in every man and something that cannot be killed physically. William Golding said that there was no hope for mankind because there is something that would always be a part of human, which is savagery and there is no way to pry it out physically.]]> 2020-04-17 08:06:59 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512293154 Elgar Mafazi / 11-4A https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512293250 In my opinon, humans are one of the most cruel species in this world. That’s why Golding decided to make such dark theme for this novel, where there’s no hope for mankind. This can be showed where the boys split up into 2 different groups, there are representatives of civilization and savagery, and the civilized group failed to live their lives and decided to be live how the savagery do it because there is no hope for mankind.]]> 2020-04-17 08:07:03 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512293250 Carlsson https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512295298 I think that some critics might feel this way because Golding's idea is very straight. Human is neither good or bar and there is always the dark side in humans. Every human has a savage side who reacts to freedom. Of course this book is a story about random boys got trapped in an uninhabited island. This could lead them to unlimited freedom which makes them slowly turn into a savage. As for the evidence, page 31 of the book gives us clue about Jack's desires to kill a pig mercilessly next time. But until the end, Jack has completely turn into a savage and the morality in the boy has been subsided.]]> 2020-04-17 08:08:17 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512295298 Brian Dhinata https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512296656 I personally think that Golding 's main theme is that evil is an inborn trait of mainkind. This is because the story start of by telling us that there is hope in getting out of the island, and thinks are pretty civilized, but as time pass, the boys began to lose hope and became to be more savages every time. They began to lose hope in rescue and only rely on human instict and hunting. This is reflected to all of the boys, even ralph and piggy began to lose hope and Ralph began to find fun in hunting. The conch that was ones usefull now seems to be useless and piggy's glasses became more important than it.]]> 2020-04-17 08:08:34 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512296656 Amanda Kurniawan/11-4A https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512297251 The main reason why critics may pick up the idea of negativity inside the main theme is because Golding's main concern is the inevitable bad tendencies in mankind. This concern is then portrayed through the battle of civilization and savagery. The conflict sometimes shows how savagery will win over sense of logic and reason because Golding was aware of the bad tendencies that mankind possess. This was portrayed in the book from the minds of the littluns and biguns who decided to join Jack's tribe because they were promised meat (in which symbolizes savagery), how Ralph was so proud of hurting an innocent sow, and how the boys enjoyed doing savage ritual dances.]]> 2020-04-17 08:08:53 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512297251 In my opinion, evil and mankind really goes hand in hand. People are born with it. Even that shows in the beginning of the book, pictured perfectly by the personalities of Jack and his tribe. To me what really made me convinced was the fact that Simon had the hallucination about how he talked with the lord of the flies and how the lord of the flies said something like, “You knew, didn’t you? I’m part of you? I’m the reason why it’s no go? Why things are what they are?” It really showed how savagery in this case, was really a part of every man kind and it’s not something you need to thought of, to be able to do. It just grows in you, unless you can tame it real good. https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512298320 2020-04-17 08:09:28 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512298320 Adrielle Marcel https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512301016
Because the overall theme of the book is having this orderly, civilized group going downhill overtime because of ther fear and because of competition, ciritcs are right to assume that the idea is of mankind itself. We see that the boys who are right and only want order get singled out and attacked by the more powerful, evil boys. Which can be viewed as a depiction of civilization right now. Where it doesn't matter how good/smart of a politician you are, as long as you are powerful and have money, you will win. ]]> 2020-04-17 08:11:06 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512301016 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512303181 From how the story was beung written, it truly showed how evil, brutality and the desire for dominance exists in everyone's hearts. This could be shown by how the boys acted in their hunts killing animals withiut remorse just because it was fun and they could get meat. Jack was also a symbolism of said evil and dominance by teaching the other boys by punishing them quite mercilessly. Not everyone could be like Simon that wanted to hang onto their beliefs just as Ralph and Piggy did. In the end, humans are prone to do sin one way or another because of their mistake a long time ago]]> 2020-04-17 08:12:14 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512303181 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512305736 I think that alot of people when reading this book might think that it portrays mankind in some sort of way. In the book, the boys went from pretty civilized to killing their own friend out of frenzy. It is also somehow implicated in the book that there is evil in every man when ralph and piggy at last succumbed to the pressure and joined jack and his tribe dancing, killed simon out of mistake and not really feeling bad afterwards . From that incident we can see that mankind have limits especially these boys. They can only stand their ground on whats right for so long. When they give up maybe because they are tired, their savage side will show and things will start to get chaotic. We also can’t forget that these are still boys and that in their nature just wants to play all day but they were forced into adulthood so that could also be one of the reasons why they end up going crazy.]]> 2020-04-17 08:13:41 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512305736 In Lord of the Flies, Golding somewhat proposes that savagery and evil exists inside each human being from the moment they were born without firstly being taught to act in such a manner as to being evil and inhuman. The beginning of the book was filled with the boys being able to work together quite nicely, but throughout the book, the boys (especially Jack), craves for more power. The boys then do all sorts of things that they were never taught, it was most likely even they themselves were not aware of their capabilities to become such horrid savages. This is shown through symbols such as the head of the sow (which was killed brutally by Jack and his tribe in such an unruly manner), which was placed in what used to be Simon’s favorite spot where he initially could find peace and was his spot to get away from all the chaos that was happening in the civilization on the island. Another example is found in Chapter 10, where Ralph and even Piggy (who is viewed as the one who has never showed his savagery), join’s Jack group which resulted in the killing of Simon. https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512316722 2020-04-17 08:20:10 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512316722 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512318746 This book shows us that evil is an inborn trait of mankind. The boys in this book start out civilized but as the story progresses and they lose hope of getting rescued, they slowly go into savagery. Through Jack and his tribe we can see how these boys turn into savages because they lost hope and focus more on surviving, we can see how the challenges of this world can turn someone evil, even the people that seem civilize, in this book that is Ralph and Piggy still have the capability to do evil, as shown when they the dance.

]]> 2020-04-17 08:21:19 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512318746 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512322958 I think that the plot of the novel’s shows that everyone has their savage sides. At the beginnings, the boys were more civilized but chapter by chapter the boys started to acts like savages. We can see that how the boys can change to savages. It shows that everyone can change to become savages. I think the author uses the boys as the main characters to represent even the young ages can do such thing. It’s like every single one of us has the potential to become savages. The novel also shows how the “excitement” of the savages can make us “under the influence” and would follow the savages, it shows that we can sometimes be under the influence to do bad things just by its “excitement”]]> 2020-04-17 08:23:36 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512322958 https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512323206 Judging from Golding background which was the Royal Navy, I assume he has seen all the kinds of people from all color of life, and put them in a picture of black and white. As the critics may say that Golding tend to categorize or define human being as inherently evil, that can be true or not, but the main theme is really about who holds power, power defines moral, rules, hierarchy and purpose, perhaps Golding as a royal navy although respected his services realize that war is twisted, and he is a part of it no matter how much he knows that there is something just wrong with everything going on, because there is a greater power  in control. It can corrupt or benefit the user, an example of this is when Jack and his group  slaughtered just about everyone who opposed him just to solidify his position. The one who holds power define what is civil and what is wrong,  no matter the age or place, evil is just a matter of the responsibility to keep face as human being in the face of history.]]> 2020-04-17 08:23:44 UTC https://padlet.com/MsGrace/n4ulbe4wn1u9pmry/wish/512323206