The Save Lives in Public (Scotland) Bill by Kezia Dugdale

Stage 2 considerations

keziadugdale — 2021-01-14 15:31:39 UTC

What detailed points do you need to consider now?

What final considerations might you have?

keziadugdale — 2021-01-14 15:33:23 UTC

Is it a good idea?

keziadugdale — 2021-01-14 15:39:00 UTC

keziadugdale — 2021-01-14 15:42:58 UTC

Who is asking for this?
Where's the evidence it'll save lives?

Every street corner? Really? Will people know how to work them?

keziadugdale — 2021-01-14 15:43:11 UTC

Is enough money being allocated to really make it work?

keziadugdale — 2021-01-14 15:43:42 UTC

NO i would not vote for this

2021-01-18 17:46:22 UTC

I think the NHS would find this helpful in particular the ambulance services- or would emergency services still need to come and attend to the person suffering cardiac arrest?

However, the cost involved in preventing cardiac arrest could outweigh the cost of installing and training every single person to use a defibrillator

2021-01-18 17:51:22 UTC

is there evidence that a joe blogs of the street is able to use a defibrillator - is it complicated or simple ?
evidence into the number of cardiac arrests - are they calling emergency services themselves (are they alone) - would they be able to use the defibrillator on themselves?

2021-01-18 17:53:33 UTC

would preventing cardiac arrest outweigh the benefits of having defibrillators on street corners? not just in terms of cost, but also use
would they continue to call 999?

I would not vote for this as i believe the general pubic would have difficulty in using it correctly, and that it could potentially be abused by using it unnecessarily. Also, the cost of installing and manufacturing one for every single street corner, and providing training for the public would outweigh the good it could do, and take away scare funds for other health services that are used more frequently.

2021-01-19 01:21:39 UTC

Will training be provided to the general public on how to use this and when its necessary? Also, is there sufficient demand for this piece of equipment to be available in the community?

2021-01-19 01:27:11 UTC

I would not - misuse of public funds.

2021-01-19 11:38:49 UTC

This bill is based on an ideological commitment to maximising public access, rather than evidence based policy making. DEFIBs on every street corner does not account for short term / long term financing and does not correctly assess the magnitude of heart failure against other public health issues.

How long does it take to retrieve a defib? How long can a person survive without one? What is the probability of one being stolen? What is the cost of an individual unit? What is the marginal utility of having an additional defib 100m from the last one? How else could the public health budget be spent on reducing causes of heart failure?

2021-01-19 11:52:47 UTC

If Denmark aint doing it, I aint doing it.

2021-01-19 11:56:27 UTC

Have we planned how other sectors will support the policy?

2021-01-19 11:57:42 UTC

Yes a great idea, but not sure about every street corner.

2021-01-20 00:20:12 UTC

Would training be given to individuals or just for the general public to use? As the cost would be huge.

2021-01-20 00:21:46 UTC

Would it be given its own budget or come out of the NHS budget?

2021-01-20 00:24:58 UTC

Yes it is a good idea but I wouldn't vote for every street corner

2021-01-20 16:16:16 UTC

It is excessive to have one on every street corner. Maybe one in most busy public places, shopping centres, busy streets in city centres.

Where the money is coming from...

2021-01-20 16:19:38 UTC

The NHS budget is already under pressure, there should be a separate budget for this act

A good idea but some concerns

2021-01-21 10:37:45 UTC

whilst I think that this is a good idea and a very preventative measure. I would not have it on every street corner perhaps just busy areas

would everyone have the skills to use one? could the money being spent on this be more useful on another policy?

2021-01-21 10:39:25 UTC

there would have to be a consideration into how often they would need to be checked on and replaced as I believe they would get damaged especially in an a high street by drunks

2021-01-21 10:40:29 UTC

Good idea but needs work

2021-01-21 11:23:06 UTC

This is a good idea but needs to be thought out properly.

First Aid training

2021-01-21 11:24:48 UTC

For this to work everyone ought to be trained on how to use a defibrillator and how to do basic first aid and CPR. If this was incorporated into the national curriculum and the public was properly educated on how to use them it would be a good idea. This would cost a lot but defibs do considerably improve someones chances of surviving a cardiac arrest so it's worth investing in.

I would pass it through stage 1

2021-01-21 11:42:01 UTC

The general principles are ones that I agree with, but the bill woud need some amendmends and more detail.

Stage 2

2021-01-21 11:43:06 UTC

First of all the defibrillators would be more effective in busy areas but not at every street corner. The cost for that would be very high. By busy areas I mean shopping centers, big avenues, concert and theatre halls, sports centres ect. In addition there would have to be an informative campaign in place as to how to use them for the public. Defibrillators can actually cause harm to the person using them, if done incorrectly. Lastly, details of the kind of punitive action for people using them for other reasons or destroying them would have to come to place.

A good idea but definitely comes with lots of implications

2021-01-21 12:22:49 UTC

Several safety concerns are highlighted with the idea of this bill

Safety concerns

2021-01-21 12:23:55 UTC

How will you manage to make every defibrillator safely accessible by those that require it at that moment in time? What if children are intrigued as to what it is and end up breaking it or not replacing it meaning that someone that may need it in a moment of emergency does not have access to it.

There would need to be almost weekly checks to establish that all defibrillators are still in the correct place and that they are working correctly.

2021-01-21 12:25:43 UTC

It is definitely a good idea

2021-01-21 12:35:51 UTC

I would pass it through the 1st stage, however, it would need some additional detail

Issues with use

2021-01-21 12:37:16 UTC

How do you ensure that everyone who would use it would use it properly?

funding

2021-01-21 12:38:17 UTC

where is the money coming from?

2021-01-21 12:41:48 UTC

I have mixed views on whether this bill would be a worthwhile exercise but if introduced alongside evidence that this would save lives then I would pass it in the first stage to see the detail of how this could work.

2021-01-21 12:45:51 UTC

It would be important to know what every street corner means in a rural environment as houses can be on streets by themselves.
For an effective implementation there must be a public campaign to encourage more people to become first aiders so there is confidence in using these defibs.
Furthermore, it is important to question why this is being pushed for rather than alternatively specialized ambulances for cardiac arrest which would allow for a single person to remain performing cpr until a fast arrival of trained medical officers who will carry a defib.
There will also be important questions over hygiene and maintenance of this equipment.

2021-01-21 12:54:52 UTC

The principles behind this bill should maybe be directed into an alternative initiative which focuses on training more first aiders, increasing the funding to ambulances to reduce wait times and also ensuring fully funded maintenance of defibs in particularly busy areas

I have mixed views on this bill, I believe it to be a good idea for saving lives however requires the general public to be trained in using such equipment with misuse being a cause of concern.

2021-01-21 17:14:52 UTC

Training would need to be delivered, will this be provided? Is this a good use of funds or should this money be invested elsewhere? For example mental health is underfunded and under supported. How much will this cost for every street corner?

2021-01-21 17:16:11 UTC

How can we afford this as well as training that will need to be provided? How can you prevent misuse?

2021-01-21 17:18:02 UTC

No

2021-01-21 17:29:36 UTC

Considering the cost of such a project and the relative usefulness of having defibrilators at every street corner, I wouldn't vote for this bill. It would require a lot of time, resources and effort to build the infrastructure which could be used elsewhere. It would be more worthwhile to invest money in existing infrastructure, preventing measures as well as NHS staff to assist people with cardiovasculor issues.

Yes

2021-01-21 17:36:54 UTC

I would pass it on to see how it could be elaborated in the next stage, and what evidence will be presented. Like someone said, it sounds disproportionate to invest so much in heart-related illness rather than other health concerns. If the idea evolves to concern fewer installations than one for every single street crossing I would be positive.

2021-01-21 17:42:55 UTC

Does it have to be every street corner? What is the cost? What other health projects would be down-prioritized to implement this one? How could the signs be designed to be both easy to find and easy to understand, maybe images rather than a lot of text.

I would not vote yes for an AED in every street corner.

2021-01-21 17:46:53 UTC

It seems too expensive to actually uphold that project and maintain them, and would therefore almost provide a false sense of security on the streets, if there is no guaranteeing that the AED near you actually work. If there is evidence that installing AEDs in fewer, more crowded areas saves lives and is maintainable, I would vote yes for a proposition like that.

Yes, but not every street corner

2021-01-21 20:14:48 UTC

This would be too costly given the need to replace equipment relatively frequently combined with the wider public likely being unable or unwilling (for fear of doing something wrong) to use the defib. In addition, there is a high likelihood that this may be abused/misused. Though this could be reduced by keeping them in a code-locked box that you would need to phone 999 for (as an ambulance is being called, quote the number of the box and get the code). Although this would likely reduce the effectiveness as the access would not be instant in a time of need.

Cost? Precise locations?

2021-01-21 20:21:20 UTC

The cost of such a project would be enormous and may not add as much of a benefit as hoped for. It would also need to be considered not having it on every street corner. Maybe it would be more appropriate to require all buildings open to the public (cafes, shops, libraries, etc.) to have working defibrillators and trained staff on hand so in the event that a defib is needed, it is being used by someone trained. Regarding times when businesses are shut (e.g., evenings/overnight), street-located defibs would be a good idea, but having one on every street corner seems excessive. It many be better to consider having them every x metres, or attached to every Nth lamppost.

It is also important to consider how the equipment would be kept in working order. Providing a defib would be of no use if the batteries were dead or the pads were missing. A robust system of maintenance and replacement of used/broken units would need to be considered. However, I would again query the cost on this and would ask whether the benefits would be able to outweigh the costs.

Hesitant to vote yes

2021-01-21 20:29:15 UTC

The idea has potential, but in practice seems unlikely to yield positive results. I would suggest a system of a similar nature to be looked at, but would not have large amounts of faith in this system. Perhaps a volunteer system in urban communities with people trained to use an AED and access to one with an app/alert system that a member of the public could trigger if they were present at a cardiac arrest would be a route to explore. Having AEDs positioned in rural areas would be perhaps more beneficial to the community than in urban areas where ambulance response time is significantly lower than rural regions.

Good idea however raises many concerns

2021-01-22 17:20:59 UTC

I think the idea behind this is really good and could be beneficial in some circumstances. However there would be a considerable cost involved for them to be rolled out on every street corner and training would be necessary otherwise there would be concerns of misuse.

Yes, the possibility of preventing unnecessary deaths is something I generally support

2021-01-23 15:01:34 UTC

While there are a number of questions regarding the feasibility and placement of the defibrillators, the idea should be considered if one is committed to reduce one of the major causes of death in our society.

Location, operating, experiences and costs

2021-01-23 15:08:13 UTC

The idea of installing public defibrillators is nothing completely new and has been introduced in other cities in Europe. The experiences of the cities regarding effectiveness, possible misuse and strategic placement should be taken into consideration.
What measures have to be taken to make people aware that these defibrillators exist and show them how to operate them.
What are the costs to establish such an infrastructure?
Is there evidence that shows that such infrastructure brings down the number of deadly cardiac arrests?
How does this policy fit into a wider strategy to fight the causes of cardiac arrests, such as obesity, stress and poverty?

2021-01-23 16:47:10 UTC

Yes I think the idea is good. The principles behind the proposed legislation makes sense in Scotland today. One of the major causes of death is heart attacks and

In principle I would agree

2021-01-23 17:59:25 UTC

Further information would be required on the logistics of installing and maintaning, and effectiveness of the units. Also which government funds would be used and whether that would impact on other health spending.

I would like to see data evaluating the affectiveness of existing defibrillators which are available for the public to use in emergencies. Further to this I would like information on how often people have heart attacks in the street. The cost implications of installing and maintaining the units would be very high, and it could be argued that those costs could be used to improve the health of citizens. Guidance on mortality rates of people who recieived defibrillator treatment in comparison to those who didn't, and information on whether public education in CPR techniques would also help. Where else in the world has similar policy?

2021-01-23 18:07:58 UTC

Agree to an extent

2021-01-24 16:10:50 UTC

I believe it would be more effective if volunteers in a street were fully trained to use the device rather than hoping someone in the general public would be able to use.

2021-01-24 16:12:59 UTC

Would there be other cost effective options?
Are the general public going to be given training?

2021-01-24 16:13:34 UTC

If destructed would it constantly be replaced?
Will there be consequences if someone uses the device incorrectly?

Yes for now

2021-01-25 16:29:19 UTC

I agree with the general principles so far but further information will determine its effectiveness such as cost, maintenance, use/ misuse

who is allowed to use it? how much would it cost? what would be the consequences if it was misused purposefully? will the public receive adequate training? if so, how would everyone get trained? where exactly would they be placed?

2021-01-25 16:31:32 UTC

I think it is a good idea but a little unrealistic. The cost of putting them on every street corner will be extremely high and on top of that they need to be maintained. I agree that there needs to be an increase in AED's and they need to be more accessible to the public.

2021-01-25 16:35:18 UTC

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 21:58:48 UTC

How useful would it be?

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 21:59:17 UTC

How is this going to be funded?

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 21:59:25 UTC

How are the defibrillator going to be set up?

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 21:59:58 UTC

functioning, practicalities

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 22:00:16 UTC

how can we spread awareness about it to society?

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 22:00:50 UTC

how can we teach people how to use it? (schools, setting up programmes, media, etc)

estigilmiguel — 2021-01-25 22:01:24 UTC

Is it safe?

Stage1 - General Principles

2022-01-14 15:36:31 UTC

Ideally I would love to these this as a legal requirement as it could save so many lives. However, there are also so many issues involved that I feel a little torn about weather or not I would. Maybe a pilot scheme initially could sway my decision.

Are they secure and monitored? As they are expensive equipment.

2022-01-14 15:41:24 UTC

Would there be codes for people to access it that have been trained to use it? What if it was used incorrectly who would be liable? If codes and trained personal such as first aiders that the general public could access this could potentially be a life saving policy.

How would the area be established?

2022-01-14 15:46:18 UTC

If it was placed in areas which research has shown the people who lived there would benefit more from the policy. Rather than being placed in affluent areas where it would be assumed no damage would occur then this would defeat the purpose. It should be a small sample to begin with to see how it would work as I can see the benefits but I fear the these are outnumbered by the negatives.

yes with some changes

2022-01-18 15:10:09 UTC

would pass it if it was adapted so it wasn't every street corner. would save lives massively

2022-01-18 15:16:56 UTC

training for AEDs takes around 5 minutes. they come with clear instructions that are recorded onto the machine. should always be accompianed with a 999 call if possible so someone will be able to assist you in performing cpr and give instructions. additionally, your survival rate from a cardiac arrest goes from around 9% with no AED to 38% when an AED is used.
However, the cost of putting them on every street corner is too high. Alternatively, they could be placed at more locations than they are currently with maps on each street detailing where the nearest AEDs and additional advice on how to use them. This means people would be used to knowing where they are and instructions to use them. This bill complements the Scottish government's commitment to ensure all children leaving secondary school are CPR trained.

yes with additional training

2022-01-18 18:20:55 UTC

The core principles make sense although I worry that the public will struggle to either want to step up and use the defibrillator without training or to actually use the device correctly

Stage 1

2022-01-19 14:27:05 UTC

I believe that the concept behind increasing accessibility to defibrillators is an important one. The issues regarding cost and accessibility can be altered in later stage.

stage 2

2022-01-19 14:29:45 UTC

How expensive is it going to be? Is it easy for someone who has no medical background to use it effectively?

Are the costs justified by the fact if used correctly and efficiently it can save lives (I think yes, but is important to have it as accessible as possible through apps on mobile devices and also the read aloud instructions inside the equipment)

stage 3

2022-01-19 14:31:45 UTC

is it going to be effective at saving lives, and the NHS can prioritise emergency services elsewhere under this act? if so, the burden of the cost of installing them can be eased as money is being saved because of them

Yes with suitable changes

2022-01-19 23:27:22 UTC

It is a great idea regarding public health safety, however it would be costly not only to have a defibrillator on every major street corner, but also costly in training the general public on how to actually use these in practice.

Perhaps within every 2/3 miles instead of every corner? How will we educate all ages on the use of defibrillators? Where would funding come from/ would this have an affect on the NHS funding which is already struggling/overwhelmed?

2022-01-19 23:29:03 UTC

Would it actually have massive affects? Could the money/funding being used, be used for better reasons?

2022-01-19 23:30:15 UTC

Yes, but...

2022-01-20 11:56:47 UTC

Increasing access to life-saving equipment is of course a good use of public spending. Although, every street corner seems excessive. Perhaps, it would be useful to prioritize busy public spaces which do not already boast such apparatus. Maybe offering grants for businesses or community groups to apply for would be a better idea.

If we're going to offer grants to community groups or buisnesses...

2022-01-20 12:05:17 UTC

How are we going to advertise the grants? How will we decide who gets a grant to ensure that it is fair and we prioritise those who need a defibrillator most? Will marginalised communities be left out if we use grants?

Ignore the Daily (Hate)Mail and build in financial support to go towards their upkeep in our plans.

2022-01-20 12:08:58 UTC

Can we put in place that sees these defib's regularly checked and put aside some cash to pay for their maintance or replacement.

Stage 1...

2022-01-20 15:38:51 UTC

It sounds like a good idea at first, but practically it is probably unnecessary to have a defibrillator on every major street corner. There are issues of maintenance, costs of instillation and training...

Stage 2

2022-01-20 15:42:36 UTC

What are the consequences if someone misuses it and causes more harm than good? What preventions are going to be in place to stop that from happening? How easy are defibrillators to use? How easy is it to train someone to use one? Will the emergency services advise members of the public to find and use one if they are in close proximity?

2022-01-20 16:39:10 UTC

I agree but it might be difficult as not everyone is first aid trained so it might not be very useful.

2022-01-20 16:42:02 UTC

I would want to ask if we're putting them on every street in every part of the country - how would this work for rural areas/ small communities?
How often would they actually be used - would it be money better spent elsewhere instead of putting them on every street when some streets could be very close together

2022-01-20 16:43:53 UTC

who's going to maintain them and check they're all working once they are all in place? how do you know people know how to use them properly?

2022-01-20 17:07:07 UTC

Not every major street corner but major passing places instead such as train stations

No

2022-01-21 13:43:18 UTC

I would vote yes at stage one, agreeing with the bills general principles, however I think the cost would outweigh the benefits. There is no need to have a DEFIB on every street corner when there are already often ones in shops and schools etc.

2022-01-21 13:45:34 UTC

Is there going to be something in place to reduce misuse? how would this work? DEFIBS can be extremely dangerous; if a child gets hold of one it could lead to a very dangerous situation.

2022-01-21 13:48:01 UTC

is the money coming from its own budget? the NHS cannot afford this.
Will an ambulance still need to be called? again use of NHS budget
reducing the number of DEFIBS being introduced from one on every street corner to being mandatory in cafes and shops in order to reduce the budget

2022-01-21 21:35:27 UTC

I would vote for the general principle of this bill. I feel the idea behind it is well meaning considering that cardiac arrest is one of the most common causes of death in the UK and in Scotland

2022-01-21 21:39:53 UTC

How much is this going to cost?
How lifesaving are defibs in the context of the average citizen using them?
Do defibs really need to be on EVERY street corner or is there sufficient lifesaving potential in simply installing more?
Would more lives be saved by increasing spending on preventing heart disease by adressing causes?
How much will it cost to maintain these defibs?
Are these likely to be missused by the general public?

No, needs amending

2022-01-22 10:21:05 UTC

I wouldn't pass this right now, I think that this is a great idea and we definitely need more defibrillator access. However this needs to coincide with education on the proper use of one. I also think it's very costly for something that will most likely be used improperly/vandalised.

Difficult to Asses

2022-01-22 16:16:49 UTC

I would find it hard to pass this bill as it seems like quite a complicated task to ask not only for the funds required to add the defibrillator on every major street corner but then also ask citizens to get trained in how to use them. It seems ideal to have life saving tools such as those on every street however in practice it would be difficult to pay for, maintain, enforce, and make sure people were using them safely.

I agree that it is a good idea, however, it is a misuse of public funding.

2022-01-22 21:12:00 UTC

I think this is a good idea in principle

2022-01-23 14:11:08 UTC

As someone who has a defibrillator near my house, and has seen it being used, I would say this is a good idea. The machines are very easy to use and can help save lives quickly, especially in a time of rising wait times for ambulances. However I would question the frequency of them - every street corner sounds excessive.

2022-01-23 14:15:02 UTC

I think training should be provided in schools, workplaces or just leaflets/emails through doors telling people how to use them. As they are not too difficult to operate, I'm not sure that would be the issue. I think incentivising people to use them and making people aware they are an option is important though. People should be told when they can use one, with detailed instructions inside the box, and clear signage pointing to it. there should be reconsideration of where the machines will be, as it seems overly expensive to put them on every street corner and also ignorant of Scotland's landscape (rural areas).

2022-01-23 14:16:26 UTC

Maintenance is key to ensuring this is successful.

2022-01-23 18:14:45 UTC

Are there any assurances that the defibrillator won't be vandalised/destroyed/misused?

I agree with the idea of more accessibility to public health service, however "every street corner" is unrealistic and also have issues concerning use/misuse and maintenance

2022-01-24 17:38:37 UTC

Define street corner

2022-01-26 15:55:25 UTC

Yes at this stage but...

2022-01-27 15:05:59 UTC

Increased availability of defibs is a good idea in principle. However, the Bill would require fine-tuning in the second stage to ensure appropriate locations are chosen and the public are confident in using them. Certainly not on every corner.

Best locations and public training/ awareness are important

2022-01-27 15:19:21 UTC

Research would need to be done by looking into high traffic areas and places where risk is higher (pedestrianised and shopping/ hospitality areas especially). Where have they been needed in the past? Definitely not every corner but maybe every couple hundred metres in busy areas. Most defibs have instructions that talk the user through how to use them properly. It would be important that these instructions are clear and available in as many languages if possible. Public training programs should also be made available (Youtube videos, day courses etc). An awareness campaign would also improve peoples confidence and encourage initiative and an app or website that informs people of their location is also needed.

Allocate resources for maintainance

2022-01-27 15:25:52 UTC

Allocate resources to ensure debifs work and are maintained, allow public to feedback if missing, maybe they can even have tracking technology in them. Emergency services are stretched so these could save lives. Data should be kept on their usage and a review at 6 or 12 months can assess how effective they have been.

I agree with the idea and I think it would be very useful. However, I also think that the biggest concern is regarding the misuse.

2023-02-02 14:10:24 UTC

Maintenance and training for people to correctly use defibrillators.

2023-02-02 14:11:31 UTC

Yes I would

AHJSC — 2023-04-28 10:58:53 UTC

Ideologically, it sounds like a great idea, but there are a lot to consider. The cost of training, installation, maybe an defib app? Concerns of misuse, public safety, gets stolen, etc.

2023-04-28 11:06:02 UTC

Nice idea, but...

2023-04-28 11:06:40 UTC

The lack of training for this in regards to the general public, the complications of DNACPR (or DNAR) to members of the public if someone was in cardiac arrest and you didn't know them. Doesn't necessarily take into consideration local population and needs of the communities. The maintanence of making sure there are replacement pads every time after use. It may save someones life but the costs outweigh the benefits, especially in regards to DNACPR's and maintanence, where ambulance and first responders will have access to the equipment already and a system of knowledge on patient wishes

AHJSC — 2023-04-28 11:09:06 UTC

In general, I believe having more defribilators in towns is a good thing, but probably not on every street corner. There would need to be public information sessions to ensure that folk understand how to operate them. Note, defribilators can save lives if used correctly until an ambulence arrives, but the patient must always still be taken to hospital.

keziadugdale — 2023-04-28 11:10:51 UTC

Don’t you think we should ask the public what THEY think and want?

2023-04-28 11:18:02 UTC

- How will it be funded?
- I assume that the kit is locked, how and where will they be able to obtain a key for it?
- Worries of people stealing them to sell them in the "black market" as we know defib machinese are expenseive. Would these get replaced?
- Will training be provided and to who?
- What is the evidence that we need one on every street corner?
Will they be monitored and evaluated for reporting purposes and case studies?

Patient wishes and public trust

2023-04-28 11:18:49 UTC

There is a trust built up towards our health care workers - do you have this same view of a passing by stranger?
If you had a DNACPR in place the acknowledgement is that it needs to be in a clear place from a personal and general public perspective
Most first responders and hospitals have these, so the implication of this bill extends the responsibility to the general public. It's doubtful that anyone who doesn't know how to use one would actually use it, but then if they're not being used by trained people, is there a use for them? Would they be better suited elsewhere? Is it worth upskilling members of the community to make this happen (to argue my own point, you could easily say yes or no to this).

How much will this cost? Will they be from similar tech companies operating within Europe which costs a lot for maintanence and upkeep? Who will replace pads once they're used? Should we assess community's most at risk?

2023-04-28 11:43:29 UTC

Funding it is a big issue, but maintaining and/or upgrading the equipment is a bigger issue in the long term. This funding can be allocated to other social structures that need it the most.

keziadugdale — 2023-04-28 11:43:53 UTC

I want to give every 20,000 people in Scotland one of these machines and they should decide where it goes in their local communities

keziadugdale — 2023-04-28 11:45:07 UTC

We’ll create a task force to maintain machines and train people to use them. It will create secure well paid jobs for young people

keziadugdale — 2023-04-28 11:45:47 UTC

Most people overdose at home on their own - the answer is drug treatment rooms not naxolone

Listen to the workers

2023-04-28 11:46:55 UTC

If BMA are highlighting, and providing evidence to back up, the concerns and potential exacerbation of health care issues as a result of misuse, this needs addressed. However, simply shifting the funding to provide solely cardiac nurses doesn't feel like the answer either. As said by one of the groups, it would be worth assessing other methods that may be more helpful within the community to save lives, and the lack of equity in some areas. There would definitely be a way to reduce cost if the core "every street" wasn't so extensive, despite the high levels of disparity within communities.

It's definitely important to consider medical care for drug overdoses, but this feels like a separate issue to the one raised with defib's. It would be worth discussing something like anti-opiods in a separate bill or discussion with further input from charities and evidence based involvement from these groups

It feels less reasonable to remove the ring fencing for councils to use provided funding as they wish in this instance, although I see their point. If there were vastly different demands from local authorities it is worth considering, but there's a reason 'policing' a bill this heavy regarding health care is also worth considering. If a local authority drops the ball and there are further complications as a result of this bill being passed it would fall to the local authority, but this isn't usually how it's perceived.

keziadugdale — 2023-04-28 11:47:16 UTC

What about the mental health implications for the user? Responsibility on the public, but no support to deal with the outcomes.

keziadugdale — 2024-03-20 08:43:19 UTC

Put security codes on them

Yes, I believe it's a good idea

2024-03-20 12:09:57 UTC

as long as there is sufficient research to demonstrate that it can save lives and there is supporting information in place for the individuals supporting the person who is in cardiac arrest. What do we ACTUALLY mean when we say every street corner though?

2024-03-20 12:12:50 UTC

on every street is extensive, however more is needed within a closer proximity, not just in the towns square for example.

I would need

2024-03-20 12:17:29 UTC

Evidence from where this has been a (un)successful initiative (like for like, i.e. every street corner), using a similar population size if possible, including any resource implications, misuse/damage, successful intervention. Also key to this is public engagement.

how do we know they'll be used

2024-03-20 12:19:58 UTC

what public awareness and training will be given on what a defib is, what it does and how to use it? Otherwise it could be an added piece of kit on our streets that people don't use or don't acknowledge.

what are the statistics

2024-03-20 12:27:09 UTC

what are the statistics that tell us we need one on every street?

Identifying it use

2024-03-20 12:28:43 UTC

How will be public know when to use a defib?

Finances used for an area more pressing?

2024-03-20 12:38:49 UTC

Given the increase in Scotland's drug deaths, suggest naloxone (where the evidence is already there) is available rather than defib

2024-03-20 12:42:54 UTC

Statistically there are greater public risks within society, larger amount of drug misuse and overdose, mental health crisis and suicide happening every minute. Does the proportion of heart attack deaths equate to these volumes? The funding would be best placed for interventions that are helping the masses.