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      <title>Seminar 9 (Jim) - Criminal Law - Group FT202 by Claire Turner</title>
      <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm</link>
      <description></description>
      <language>en-us</language>
      <pubDate>2017-10-19 13:05:02 UTC</pubDate>
      <lastBuildDate>2026-01-12 20:13:27 UTC</lastBuildDate>
      <webMaster>hello@padlet.com</webMaster>
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      <item>
         <title>Death of an unborn child?</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394041898</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/woman-murdered-her-pregnant-friend-and-tore-out-the-unborn-baby/" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:05:03 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394041898</guid>
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         <title>AG Ref No. 3 of 1994</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045365</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:08:21 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045365</guid>
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      <item>
         <title>Link to Norrie article - </title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045517</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:08:25 UTC</pubDate>
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         <title>Link to Ashworth paper - &#39;Reforming the Law of Murder&#39;</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045574</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:08:28 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045574</guid>
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      <item>
         <title>CPS Guidance</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045634</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:08:31 UTC</pubDate>
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      <item>
         <title>Link to Prezi on Mens Rea</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045703</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="https://prezi.com/view/yg7QhsorPiFChTElXcXj/" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:08:35 UTC</pubDate>
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         <title>Link to Prezi on murder and causation</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394045754</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="https://prezi.com/view/3mokAesHFLsMWG2y2Gu2/" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:08:38 UTC</pubDate>
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      <item>
         <title>Current issue</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394047615</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/20/inquiry-launched-after-two-children-die-in-nottingham-flat-fire" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:10:22 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394047615</guid>
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      <item>
         <title>Real life examples</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394048775</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:11:24 UTC</pubDate>
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         <title>Prezi&#39;s</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394049303</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:11:55 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394049303</guid>
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         <title>Academic Opinion</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394049745</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:12:18 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394049745</guid>
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         <title>Common Law</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394050154</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:12:44 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394050154</guid>
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         <title>In order to increase the chances of being rehoused, Jim, a single parent, decided to post a burning rag through his own letterbox. He thought that it would cause minimal damage and that he could tell the council that he and his family were being harassed and needed to be moved to a new house. One evening Jim decided to put his plan into action. After he had checked that his daughters were asleep and that there was no one around outside, he went out of his back door, crept to the front of the house and pushed a rag soaked in petrol through the letter box. Jim then went to the back of the house in order to regain entry and to raise the alarm but was shocked to find that the door was locked due to a faulty latch. In a panic Jim raced to the front of the house to try the front door and was startled to see that the fire had taken hold very quickly and that the whole of the porch appeared to be on fire.Realising that he could not control the fire himself, Jim called 999 and requested that the fire and ambulance services attend. The fire engine arrived and the fire fighters managed to gain entry to the upstairs bedroom and rescued Amy aged seven and Jodie, aged seventeen and 20 weeks pregnant with her first child.Unfortunately, Jodie had inhaled a significant amount of smoke and was unconscious when the fire fighters rescued her.  Whilst unconsciousness, she went into premature labour but the baby died during delivery.  Jodie never regained consciousness and was placed on a life-support machine, although she did retain some brain-stem function.  Meanwhile, the fire fighter carrying Amy dropped her as he rushed from the blazing building and Amy hit her head on the concrete path. Shortly afterwards, the ambulance service arrived and paramedics attended to Amy’s injuries. The paramedic treating Amy did not appreciate the severity of the blow to the head that she had sustained and focused on treating her breathing difficulties that had been caused by the fire.Amy died on the way to the hospital as a result of blood clot on her brain that had required immediate surgery.Examine Jim’s liability for murder.</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394050750</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 12:13:05 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394050750</guid>
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      <item>
         <title>Defendant - Jim, Murder - Jodie, baby and Amy</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394229683</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 14:19:01 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394229683</guid>
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      <item>
         <title></title>
         <author>m0rleigh</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394253919</link>
         <description><![CDATA[<div>Jodie’s baby:&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Murder: AR: unlawful killing of a human being <strong>(Coke) - Applied in Moloney - Intention to kill or cause gbh</strong><br><br></div><div>Unlawful killing: He was of sound mind and would be legally responsible for the fire.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>A human being? The child must be wholly expelled from the mother and have independent circulation. Dependent on the facts of whether the baby ever had independent circulation.(AG Reference<strong> No. 3 of 1994</strong>)&nbsp; If not, it’s likely they would not constitute a ‘human being’ for these purposes.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Causation: Factual causation (White): But for Jim starting the fire, would Jodie’s baby have died? No. Legal causation: Was Jim’s conduct an operating and substantial cause of death (Smith): YES<br><br></div><div>MR: Intention: Oblique intention: must be a foresight of virtual certainty that either GBH or murder would occur as a result of Jim lighting the fire. He believed that he would be able to raise the alarm to prevent the fire from injuring Jodie or her baby so subjectively, he was not virtually certain GHB or death would occur.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Possibly involuntary manslaughter due to lack of intention. AG Reference 3 1994<br><br></div><div>Jodie:<br><br></div><div>Murder: AR: unlawful killing of a human being. Death= brain stem death- Jodie still had some activity.<strong> </strong><br><br></div><div>Unlawful killing: <del>Yes</del> No<br><br><strong>s18 Intention to cause gbh - Definition Serious harm (Saunders; DPP v Smith) CPS Charging Standards - life changing injuries and substantial and sustained medical treatment.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Human Being: Yes<br><br></div><div>Causation: Factual (white): But for Jim’s conduct, would Jodie have sustained the injuries? No<br><br></div><div>Legal causation: Was Jim’s conduct an operating and substantial cause of death (Smith): YES<br><br></div><div>MR: Oblique intention: must be a foresight of virtual certainty that either GBH or murder would occur as a result of Jim lighting the fire and that <strong>he appreciated such was the case (Woollin).</strong> He believed that he would be able to raise the alarm to prevent the fire from injuring Jodie so he was not virtually certain GHB would occur. <strong>(Defence's argument) Prosecution would argue - that if you put a lighted rag through a letter box, it is virtually certain that serious harm will result (Nedrick; Hyam).<br></strong><br></div>]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2022-11-22 14:33:18 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394253919</guid>
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      <item>
         <title></title>
         <author></author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394280810</link>
         <description><![CDATA[<div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Defendant is Jim – Murder of Jodie, Baby and Amy</div><div>o &nbsp; Amy – Murder</div><div>§&nbsp; Actus Reus – unlawfully kills another the king’s person</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Unlawfully – self-defence not allowed</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Killeth – involves causation</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Any ‘reasonble creature’ - Only if a foetus/child has ‘an existence independent of its mother’ is it capable of being murdered.&nbsp;</div><div>o &nbsp; Jim did not do the action in self-defence and the defendant is a born-living human</div><div>§&nbsp; Causation</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Factual causation</div><div>o &nbsp; White – ‘but for’ test</div><div>§&nbsp; BUT FOR the actions of Jim, would the death of Amy occurred? = Yes</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Legal causation – Two key requirements</div><div>o &nbsp; The defendant’s conduct must be a more than minimal cause (the “de minimis” principle)</div><div>o &nbsp; There must be no “breaks in the chain of causation” from later events or behaviour.</div><div>§&nbsp; Evolution of the de minimus principle</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;“operating &amp; substantial cause” <em>Smith </em>[1959]</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;“contributed significantly to the result” <em>Paget </em>[1983]</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;“significant contribution” = “more than negligible” <em>Cheshire </em>[1991]</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;“more than minimal” <em>Kimsey </em>[1996]</div><div>o <del>&nbsp; Jim’s action did have a significant contribution to the death of Amy as it was his action that resulted in the fire, which meant that the fire service had to come out.</del></div><div>§&nbsp; Thin Egg Shell Rule</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Amy, on the facts, was healthy and did not have any pre-existing medical conditions which may have contributed or accelerated the blood clot in her brain</div><div>§&nbsp; 3<sup>rd</sup> party intervention (pagett)</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;“if an act of a third party is relied upon as breaking the chain, the act of the third party must have been “free, deliberate and informed”.</div><div>o &nbsp; Fire service</div><div>o&nbsp; &nbsp;<strong>Free</strong>:&nbsp;</div><div>§&nbsp; It could be argued that the choices of the firemen were limited or non-existent due to the deteriorating situation they were in.&nbsp;</div><div>o&nbsp; &nbsp;<strong>Deliberate</strong>:&nbsp;</div><div>§&nbsp; It could be argued that the fire service made a deliberate choice to carry Amy in the way she was carried and choosing the route in which to take Amy out of the house based on the situation they were in</div><div>o&nbsp; &nbsp;<strong>Informed</strong>:</div><div>§&nbsp; It could be argued that the situation may have limited the logical reasoning of the fireman of how they should approach their conduct as they had to save the victims as soon as possible</div><div>§&nbsp; However, it could be argued that they had training to make informed decisions in such circumstances - <strong>obvious</strong></div><div>§&nbsp; Improper medical treatement<br>Defence - Jordan - Palpably wrong treatment, smith - thoroughly bad. </div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Prosecution - &nbsp;<em>Cheshire </em>[1991]&nbsp;</div><div>o &nbsp; Negligent medical treatment will only break the chain in “the most extraordinary and unusual&nbsp; case&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The question is, whether “the negligent&nbsp; treatment was so independent of his (the accused’s) acts &amp; in itself so potent in causing death that the contribution made by the accused could be regarded as insignificant</div><div>o &nbsp; It could be argued that the actions of Jim could be regarded as insignificant when considering the conduct of the paramedic as the fire service’s act in carrying amy to safety may have broken the chain of causation</div><div>o &nbsp; Amy died as a result of the blood clot, not because of a fire-related incident</div><div>§&nbsp; Mens rea</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;D intends to cause death or GBH to V<br><br></div><div>o &nbsp; ‘Malice aforethought’ means intention to kill or cause GBH. &nbsp;<br><br></div><div>o &nbsp; Jim did not intend to cause death or GBH to Amy<br><br></div><div>o &nbsp; In conclusion, Jim may not be liable for murder as the Mens rea element is not satisfied. Furthermore, the intervening act of the fire service and the paramedics may have broke the chain of causation.<br><br></div>]]></description>
         <enclosure url="" />
         <pubDate>2022-11-22 14:49:06 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/2394280810</guid>
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         <title>Link to Prezi</title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/3748446049</link>
         <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
         <enclosure url="https://prezi.com/view/7PkREzmHYABiqMniuC4X/" />
         <pubDate>2026-01-12 20:13:26 UTC</pubDate>
         <guid>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/3748446049</guid>
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      <item>
         <title></title>
         <author>claire43</author>
         <link>https://padlet.com/claire43/i532uhm5kxcm/wish/3748446105</link>
         <description><![CDATA[<p>John and Richard have a dispute with one of their school peers: Ralphie. The dispute has spread to social media, with each posting provocative stories on Instagram and videos on TikTok. Yesterday, Ralphie made a particularly hurtful remark about John’s mother in a TikTok video, which was viewed by many people in their school year (including John and Richard). John and Richard agree to ‘teach him a lesson’ and meet at the park. Richard steals a knife from his parents’ kitchen drawer and gives this to John, saying ‘this should give him a scare!’ They then find Ralphie, on his own. John taunts and threatens Ralphie with the knife, saying ‘you aren’t so brave now huh?’. Richard shouts ‘yeh, we can cut you up!’ John then stabs Ralphie multiple times, killing him. As Ralphie collapses to the ground, Richard is horrified and scared. He runs away, leaving John with the knife and covered in blood. John is arrested at the scene and charged with murder. Richard is arrested later and charged with murder, as an accessory.</p><p><strong>Discuss Richard’s criminal liability for murder, as an accessory</strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p>]]></description>
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         <pubDate>2026-01-12 20:13:31 UTC</pubDate>
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