5th period LOTF ch. 5 seminar 100118 by Carolyn Heaton

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 11:25:48 UTC

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 11:26:56 UTC

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:09:53 UTC

Helo

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:10:20 UTC

Greetings^

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:12:38 UTC

I agree with Tyler.

gressm011 — 2018-10-03 15:12:40 UTC

I liked Tyler disagreeing with Aiden

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:13:03 UTC

Development of a character (Ralph)...does this indicate that Ralph is a dynamic (rather than static) character?

meekc2 — 2018-10-03 15:13:03 UTC

I like how Aiden started the discussion off with a good deep question that could get the conversation off the ground

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:13:16 UTC

Tambien, Connor

forsythes1 — 2018-10-03 15:14:02 UTC

I agree with Tyler, throughout the chapter Ralph continues to show that he has grown by showing him taking control and being conscious of rules and how important it is that rules are all they have left and being willing to step down as Amanda said

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:14:19 UTC

Ralp does seem to becoming a more dynamic charactor because he's no longer having just fun all the time but i taking responiblity as the leader of the island

meekc2 — 2018-10-03 15:14:23 UTC

The development of Ralph shows that he is a dynamic character and not as static as we saw him in the beginning of the book

gressm011 — 2018-10-03 15:14:23 UTC

I liked their point about Ralph being self conscious about not being able to lead the boys

abhilasha01 — 2018-10-03 15:14:31 UTC

I think Ralph is starting to realize the can't handle the responsibilities of an adult, and he is desperate for advice.

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:14:40 UTC

Maybe Ralph and Piggy should be more of a team rather than just one leader.

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:15:15 UTC

I'd like them to reference exact text (page numbers, reading passages aloud, etc.).

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:15:43 UTC

I like how Tyler went back in the book.

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:15:45 UTC

me too megan. I do feel Ralph is growing and become a better leader, but if anything he seems to be more selfconsouis since jack is in the picture as a rival leader

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:15:57 UTC

Almost, Abby. But he gave up.

schwartzs5 — 2018-10-03 15:16:03 UTC

I think Bobby is demonstrating some of the key characteristics of Ralph. He is accurately talking about Ralph's insecurities and how he's recognizing what he can do better. However, I don't agree that Ralph is becoming a worse leader, but instead he's tweaking what he's doing and therefor making an attempt to better the group.

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:16:39 UTC

I like how Amanda disagreed using a question.

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:16:54 UTC

that was a goo tactic

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:16:58 UTC

good

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:17:06 UTC

i meant good

gressm011 — 2018-10-03 15:17:15 UTC

I think Tyler and Andrew are right, Jack is flashy because he hunts and is loud and intimidating, and that may not attract people but it makes them follow him even if it might be out of fear

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:17:26 UTC

Wait! Wait! Amanda said Ralph is doing something wrong, as evinced by the deterioration of the little society, but what is it's NOT Ralph, but rather then nature of man? What else might Golding be trying to tell us?

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:17:44 UTC

I like how Andrew clarified what Elena was saying.

schwartzs5 — 2018-10-03 15:17:45 UTC

I don't necessarily think that Jack is becoming more savage, but I think he's just focussing more on hunting to impress and win over some of the younger boys.

gressm011 — 2018-10-03 15:18:08 UTC

I agree with Spencer

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:18:13 UTC

I agree with Spencer Jack is consumed in making himself look tough.

meekc2 — 2018-10-03 15:18:36 UTC

He might be telling us that mans natural state is war and disagreement and that these kids are showing that to us

abhilasha01 — 2018-10-03 15:18:37 UTC

I think Jack has a huge ego and authority, so I think the littluns are scared of him, so that is why they are listening to him.

rubinr1 — 2018-10-03 15:18:48 UTC

Golding is saying that no single leader can be beneficial to everyone they are leading.

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:18:49 UTC

Text reference, Tyler...boom.

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:18:51 UTC

but could that motivation of peer pressure be whats making him savage spencer?

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:19:02 UTC

I agree with Adithy.

forsythes1 — 2018-10-03 15:19:15 UTC

I disagree with Spencer because you can see from earlier chapters where he is evidently becoming more animistic in the way he hunts and his mindset and he never seems to really relish in the other boys attention or ask for it.

meekc2 — 2018-10-03 15:19:30 UTC

I like how Tyler referenced the page number so it's easier for everyone to understand what they're saying

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:19:53 UTC

Yup, Connor. Now try reading the passage, too.

gressm011 — 2018-10-03 15:20:22 UTC

I liked how Andrew brought up the kid who died and making them think deeper about why Golding did that

abhilasha01 — 2018-10-03 15:20:23 UTC

I think they can't even identify who they are now, are they Man, Savage, or Animal? I believe that they are blending as one in this chapter.

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:20:35 UTC

I agree with Sage's interpretation of Jack's progression.

speera2 — 2018-10-03 15:20:36 UTC

To me savage is acting just like a wild animal, perhaps Jack will get there but for right now he isn't.

schwartzs5 — 2018-10-03 15:20:44 UTC

I think that Golding is trying to make a commentary on how the nature of man does not need an outside factor to degrade, but I think that the opposite is occurring where the lack of outside factors from the world outside of the island is driving some of the kids to lose their sanity and sense of morality.

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:21:17 UTC

Seminar-worthy idea, Spencer.

waltersp2 — 2018-10-03 15:21:17 UTC

the point andrew brought up about the little boy being brought up again is intresting because it seems to have happened so long ago and the boys keep reacting like its still fresh

gressm011 — 2018-10-03 15:21:35 UTC

Abigail has a good point

forsythes1 — 2018-10-03 15:22:07 UTC

I think they keep bringing the boy up because he was the first sign that never everything was so great on this island and is now a reminder that any of them could die

schwartzs5 — 2018-10-03 15:22:26 UTC

I still don't think that Jack has really made a change of himself, but rather the circumstances of the island are making changes on him and since the kids aren't in a comfortable situation he feels like he needs to change himself to make them more comfortable.

palombae — 2018-10-03 15:25:50 UTC

I like how spencer immediately gives them a page to reference and topic

whitea35 — 2018-10-03 15:25:52 UTC

very good idea of spencer to start off the conversation with a page number

chunga1 — 2018-10-03 15:26:07 UTC

I liked how Spencer started the Seminar off by referring back to the text to further his point.

webera5 — 2018-10-03 15:26:42 UTC

I disagree with Spencer. He isn't passive aggressive he's just desperate to get rescued and feels like they are losing all hope

chunga1 — 2018-10-03 15:27:39 UTC

I agree with Andrew and I believe that Ralph is losing hope because no one is listening to his leadership and nothing is getting done.

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:28:03 UTC

I disagree with Spencer, because I think that all of the issues of irresponsibility in the shelters and water. The fire is just the culmination of all of their lack of action. Ralph called the meeting to address all of this. I liked the text reference, though.

palombae — 2018-10-03 15:28:29 UTC

I think megan is right with saying the sinking of his feet is like the sinking of his power

consadenea1 — 2018-10-03 15:28:30 UTC

I like what sage said, I didnt realize that but the water could symbolize the loss of civilization.

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:29:12 UTC

I like Spencer's enthusiasm, but I wish he hadn't moved right from his first question to his second. He's also kinda calling on the other kids and telling them their answers are "good." The balance of the discussion is off. We don't have leaders in seminar.

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:29:28 UTC

Yeah

webera5 — 2018-10-03 15:29:41 UTC

that's what I thought too

consadenea1 — 2018-10-03 15:29:44 UTC

I agree with Connor. Jack and Ralph's fighting could foreshadow a split in the island.

chunga1 — 2018-10-03 15:29:50 UTC

I agree it seems like Spencer is dominating the conversation

palombae — 2018-10-03 15:29:53 UTC

I agree with connor on how it is possible that they split into two powers with their own groups that they lead

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:29:56 UTC

I agree, I think the seminar should be more conversational.

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:30:10 UTC

Just be careful about slipping into predictions, Abigail.

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:30:49 UTC

Connor has a really good idea. But I believe that Ralph's would be smaller bc no-one besides maybe Piggy and Simon are with him

whitea35 — 2018-10-03 15:30:58 UTC

I like connor's theory of the split leaders but I have to disagree. So far Ralph has only two people behind him and I think that they would realize that going off into the jungle alone would be risky.

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:31:19 UTC

Connor has a good idea, I think that the conch had lost all of its significance.

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:31:27 UTC

Connor is doing great <3

webera5 — 2018-10-03 15:31:36 UTC

I like Conner's idea about the conch

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:31:56 UTC

Spencer keeps changing ideas

revenisr — 2018-10-03 15:31:58 UTC

I agree with a split of power. The boys splitting but then later realizing they all need each other might foreshadow what is to come in the future.

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:32:01 UTC

I dont like it

whitea35 — 2018-10-03 15:32:06 UTC

i wish spencer would allow the group to spend more time on each topic instead of asking new questions

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:32:09 UTC

I thought they should have finished the thought up first before changing topics.

palombae — 2018-10-03 15:32:22 UTC

I feel like spencer is taking too much control and changing topics too quickly

webera5 — 2018-10-03 15:32:24 UTC

Spencer forcing the discussion so that he can say all of his questions

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:33:02 UTC

At least give spencer credit bc what he IS discussing is good, but he is also not doing well at the rest

chunga1 — 2018-10-03 15:33:07 UTC

I agree Spencer seems as though he needs to lead the conversation.

revenisr — 2018-10-03 15:33:12 UTC

I think Spencer should allow everyone else to get their questions in.

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:33:27 UTC

I agree with Robert

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:33:28 UTC

I agree with Connor, the kids have lost their maturity and don't want to work to get off of the island. They've resigned themselves to eternity on the island and seem to only be there to have fun.

palombae — 2018-10-03 15:33:38 UTC

I think it would be good to hear others questions instead of just spencers

whitea35 — 2018-10-03 15:33:58 UTC

I disagree that the boys think that the island is a paradise. The tone of the book continues to be dark and all of the littluns seem miserable and scared to death

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:34:12 UTC

Paige is contributing some very insightful information

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:34:15 UTC

I agree, Amanda.

palombae — 2018-10-03 15:34:38 UTC

I like what abby said that we have to keep in mind that they are only kids

cheaton3 — 2018-10-03 15:34:50 UTC

Okay, but, remember- seminars help us learn civil discourse. Consider asking to share the floor, when you're in a group with someone who seems to be dominating. "Timmy, is it cool if I share some of the discussion time? Ok, thanks, because I'd like to get back to Megan's last point."

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:34:51 UTC

I think that they realized it wasn't a paradise when they all started crying about their homes and parents... @tyler @amanda

webera5 — 2018-10-03 15:34:54 UTC

Abby is right, they are all from England and most of them probably haven't been to a place like this before

consadenea1 — 2018-10-03 15:34:57 UTC

I agree with Becca. The boys fears are holding them back.

sottilea1 — 2018-10-03 15:35:41 UTC

Megan has a true point of being afraid but not about the vacation

whitea35 — 2018-10-03 15:35:53 UTC

I didn't get the idea that they didn't want to be rescued. I had the impression that they were just too immature and unorganized to plan ahead and think of the future

blessingtont1 — 2018-10-03 15:36:03 UTC

Megan has a good idea about Jack, because he appears to be using fear to control them.

webera5 — 2018-10-03 15:36:52 UTC

I do think that their discussion flowed better than ours