2018 Block 6 Best Moment by Donald Lanctot

Original Post

lanctotd — 2018-11-07 13:58:30 UTC

Post in yellow/ Respond in blue

Response

lanctotd — 2018-11-07 14:01:02 UTC

Last Lines

2018-11-07 19:54:48 UTC

With our own effort to push past our own obstacles, and problems, we are constantly confronted with the past, as we are ultimately doomed to repeat the past. We are never able to push past it, only destined to be “borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Daisy and Gatsby's "Love"

2018-11-07 19:55:46 UTC

Gatsby and Daisy’s “love” of each other is rather peculiar throughout the story, and once we divulge more about their pasts we see that the two are opposites. Daisy sees Gatsby as someone she can take advantage of while Gatsby is looking for wealth, which he finds in Daisy. I think the two characters contrast each other, and that’s why they have such an attraction to one another.

I Hate Daisy

2018-11-07 19:56:42 UTC

Even though she loved Gatsby and made the big scene in front of everyone about how she loves Gatsby and she will leave Tom for him she doesn’t even have to audacity to go to Gatsby’s funeral.

Daisy is a Snob.

2018-11-07 19:56:55 UTC

Daisy sounded like a stereotypical rich spoiled person. The kind of person that comes from existing money and doesn't really work for anything in their life

Time Period

2018-11-07 19:57:09 UTC

Can Gatsby be considered relevant to us nowadays? It seems like there were more "East Eggers" back in the twenties (Standard Oil, J.P Morgan, U.S. Steel) compared to the more "West Eggers" from nowadays (Uber, Bird, Blue Apron, Spotify). How can the nouveau riche of Gatsby possibly be the same as the nouveau riche of now?

Give me attention! money is a trap y'all

2018-11-07 19:57:28 UTC

I can read Gatsby’s desire for Daisy in two ways: that he loves her because he loves money, or that he wants money so that he can get her. However, I mainly think that Gatsby did love Daisy for her money, even if he didn't know it himself. This is because his “first love” was not Daisy, it was money.

Misleading title of The book

2018-11-07 19:57:36 UTC

The reader goes on to find out that Mr. Gatsby is borderline stalking the narrator's cousin, is involved with mob dealings, and to top it all of his real name isn’t even Gatsby. What a punch in the face from Fitzgerald. From a first view, this appears as almost false advertising from Fitzgerald. Nobody wants to read a book about “The Creepy Gatsby” or “The Normal Except for a Few Flaws Gatsby”.

2018-11-07 19:57:44 UTC

Interesting thought. However, while one can hate Daisy, I feel like her underlying goal is to draw as much attention to herself as possible. She wants to be the center of attention no matter what. This is why she causes such a ruckus at the hotel. It can also been seen in the way she acts around Nick, making him seem almost attracted to her.

Gatsby

19prendergastkl — 2018-11-07 19:58:10 UTC

Gatsby was so overwhelmed that what he had been wishing for was finally within his reach, it suddenly wasn’t even about Daisy. What he felt for her was an afterthought. He was more concerned with winning. This is clear when he is fighting with Tom and neither of them seem to care that Daisy is even in the room.

Daisy Is Not A Victim

2018-11-07 19:58:18 UTC

I feel as if people shouldn’t feel sorry for Daisy based on how Tom treats her because she is no different from him. All she is worried about is herself and her wealth when conflict comes into play, but still tries to tell everyone she is a good person.

Daisy

2018-11-07 19:58:53 UTC

In the first chapter it appears that Daisy is the victim, the one to have pity on, when in reality Daisy and Tom are cheaters and to blame. The Daisy that readers thought she was at the beginning is very different from the true careless and money driven Daisy that she really is.

Dream vs Goal

2018-11-07 19:59:16 UTC

From the beginning of their relationship, Gatsby looked at Daisy as more of a dream instead of a goal. A dream is something that is picture perfect, and is almost unattainable. But a goal can usually be met and obtained. From when he first sees Daisy, he is mesmerized more by her money, status, and mainly her house more than her personality or her demeanor.

Jordan & Nick is some of the closest love we get to true love in this story

2018-11-07 19:59:44 UTC

I think that the Jordan & Nick relationship is the closest that you can get in the book to love. My reasoning for this is because there is kindness throughout the entire book that they’re together. There’s not really one mention of problems that happen to them. Also, love is shown when Nick decides to leave NY and he takes the time to go and tell Jordan before he leaves because he couldn’t just leave her without an explanation.

Time

2018-11-07 20:00:00 UTC

As Gatsby is killing time in his pool, waiting for Daisy to call, the illusion that his love with Daisy is timeless continues to crack as more and more time passes as Daisy doesn’t call. Gatsby begins to feel the agonizing rhythm of time again as he is apart from Daisy and is also in bad standing with her. I think that Gatsby realizes that Daisy isn’t truly his before Wilson arrives

2018-11-07 20:00:27 UTC

In the end, Gatsby hasn’t moved on in life like Daisy has, and so he doesn’t understand certain things. In the end Daisy and Tom are two of the same. Like Nick says, "They were careless people, Tom and Daisy—they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made….” Daisy may have stayed with Tom because it is easier to fall back into a life they both understand.

“Whenever you feel like criticizing any one just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”

2018-11-07 20:01:00 UTC

Base on these line, Mr. Lanctot said that Nick is from the old money and clearly after reading the book, we have all the evidence to say that. However, when I read it I didn't want to assume that because I was told that by my father all the time, and we are not even rich.

Daisy

2018-11-07 20:01:47 UTC

At the end of the book when Nick describes Tom and Daisy as “conspiring together,” that further showed that they belong in the same group. Daisy is apart of “Tom’s world,” and I think that Fitzgerald wants the reader to see that at the end and realize that she really isn’t a victim at all. Fitzgerald writes in a way that the reader has a tendency to dismiss all the things that Daisy has done that are essentially “equal” to what Tom has done.

2018-11-07 20:01:55 UTC

Yeah she doesn't even care about him, like when he took the blame for her she didn't seem that appreciative

19prendergastkl — 2018-11-07 20:02:15 UTC

I think that this may be because, at the time, that kind of behavior was considered "Great". This could be Fitzgerald's critique of society at that time.

2018-11-07 20:02:23 UTC

I agree with what you are saying about Daisy. She acts like she is the king of the world in her attitude and the way Tom and her treat people. They carelessly hurt others.

response

2018-11-07 20:02:41 UTC

I like the idea of His love for Daisy being an afterthought, especially as he loses hope for his dream

2018-11-07 20:02:51 UTC

I do agree with you because Nick and Jordan are the closest we come to love but I don't believe it was love that Nick showed when he decided to leave he was just being respectful

Last Lines of TGG

19presleyc — 2018-11-07 20:03:22 UTC

feel like its a very powerful writing technique to have the last words of “And one fine morning-------” completely cut off and change the structure of the paragraph to be blank before the final line. I feel like the author is saying that we look upon the future with such kind and forgiving eyes, promising that things will be better in the future and it will never be upon us. That the future is too often idealized to be some great event or time that is so much better than right now could ever be. In a sense, the way I read it, this is the opposite of Carpe Diem. That we shouldn’t worry because the future will be so amazing that we just have to hold on for today. The term “orgastic” is such a powerful word in this context. To use a word like “orgastic” for something that is not sexual is weird but also showcases the power and emotion of the subject in question. It’s an interesting ending with multiple reads, but I think the contrast is supposed to stay the way it is. I think the point the author is making is that we are continuously in limbo between the past and the future and never in the present. There is no “now”, there is only what has happened and the oblivion of future possibilities.

2018-11-07 20:03:24 UTC

I agree that Daisy is not a victim even though the first chapter tries to make it sound like she is.

time period response

2018-11-07 20:03:41 UTC

The past and future are never exactly the same. I think the point of learning from the past is not that we can apply it exactly, but so that we can use lessons from it to help shape our current decisions.

Reaction to an Interesting Quote

2018-11-07 20:04:00 UTC

According to Nick, Gatsby accomplished these ambitious aspirations for his future all because of his “Platonic conception of himself.” This “Platonic conception,” which is characterized by having deep love and affection for oneself, is what sustained Gatsby’s motivation to achieve his dreams. In fact, Nick uses the metaphor “He was a son of God” to highlight Gatsby’s highly confident perception of himself. The metaphor, which is extended when Nick adds “and he must be about His Father’s business,” depicts Gatsby as perceiving himself as divine and perfect. In addition, it accentuates how Gatsby glorifies his dreams as being of the highest and most valuable, when in reality, “His Father’s business” is really “the service of a vast, vulgar, and meretricious beauty.”

2018-11-07 20:04:06 UTC

I love this connection to time! I absolutely agree that he knows that Daisy is not his before he dies. There is also a connection with time against Gatsby during the tea party with Daisy at Nick's house. Gatsby pushes a clock off the mantel and it was a bigger deal than almost breaking an old clock. This may be because time (including the 5 years Gatsby and Daisy have been apart) is against Gatsby.

All Daisy's Fronts

2018-11-07 20:04:21 UTC

Daisy has some amazing fronts, but she was extremely indecisive on what those fronts should be. So rather than them being effective to make her be a good person they actually show that she is a stock up snob.

2018-11-07 20:04:23 UTC

I think its intentional b/c its trying to trick the readers

2018-11-07 20:04:30 UTC

Nick recognizes that they belong in a completely different world than that of Gatsby and Nick, who didn’t originally grow up with the mindset of a wealthy, privileged member of the upper class (old money people).

The Absence of Love

2018-11-07 20:04:43 UTC

There is no type of longing for anyone because the personality does not matter.

2018-11-07 20:04:47 UTC

I think that Fitzgerald has titled the book properly. Although Gatsby did some bad things, his coming from poor to rich is something to be proud of. Even if the things he had to do was sub-par.

Daisy

2018-11-07 20:04:47 UTC

Daisy loves money more than the men that she is with. I also think that is very interesting that Daisy never tells Tom that she hit Myrtle. She doesn't know it was his mistress so why wouldn't she? Is it only because she feels guilty that she hit anyone at all?

2018-11-07 20:05:01 UTC

I'm interested in the idea that Daisy is exactly the same as Tom is. I feel like there are distinct differences in the reasons for why they act but at the same time they commit some of the same actions.

Daisy Buchanan

2018-11-07 20:05:09 UTC

I personally believe that it was wrong of her to kill a woman and cheat on her husband, but her addiction to a lavish lifestyle is not so easily judged. The 1920s were a glamourous time that fooled thousands. We would all like to think that our actions would have differed from hers, but perhaps we as well would have merely been caught up in the times.

2018-11-07 20:05:09 UTC

Yes, they are so much the same even though the reader thinks Daisy is the victim at the beginning.

"In any case, it was just personal."

19bostar — 2018-11-07 20:05:11 UTC

From his quote it is obvious that Gatsby believes that Tom and Daisy's love was just sexual; it was just a meeting of bodies and not to be compared to the ideal, perceived romantic love that he and Daisy shared.

2018-11-07 20:05:17 UTC

I agree with this. If she ever truly cared for Gatsby and loved him, why would she not attend his funeral? This furthers the point that true love isn't shown in this book.

2018-11-07 20:05:25 UTC

“He never loves her, he just feels like he needs her to complete his vision of a perfect life that he made and that he set up. Everything has to be perfect for him and has to work out the right way with him in control in order to totally fulfill his dream of wealth, and Daisy is a girl who is another step in obtaining this dream of his and another step towards making that dream perfect, not a girl who he loves.”

19prendergastkl — 2018-11-07 20:05:50 UTC

I like this and the ending of the book because it says that neither of them are happy but they also don't do anything about it except have affairs and get people killed

Lust, Not Love in Gatsby

2018-11-07 20:05:56 UTC

The last relationship and other half of the love triangle is Daisy and Gatsby. While theirs is the most passionate and wild, there is truly nothing but lust. Gatsby is searching for something in Daisy that doesn’t exist, something tangible that she is without. Daisy is caught in a whirlwind of emotions during her affair with Gatsby, but none of them seem to be an everlasting love that Gatsby desires.

2018-11-07 20:06:29 UTC

Nick returns to see Jordan for closure one last time, something I would consider a rather caring act. Yet, how ironic that this deserted act of care displayed in the novel is followed by Nick leaving.

2018-11-07 20:06:39 UTC

I agree with this because when they are together they speak freely to each other and I don't recall them ever really focusing on money or social status, which most characters talked about all the time when talking to their significant other

Response to Daisy Loving Money

2018-11-07 20:06:40 UTC

I agree, Daisy is in love with money. But she already had money, so I believe she also loves her status. If she told Tom that she hit that woman, even if he didn't tell anyone, she is still lowered by the class system as a criminal in his eyes.

Daisy = Money

2018-11-07 20:07:20 UTC

Gatsby is really in the love with the wealth and money and that's why he loved Daisy so much. Because she speaks so fluently and eloquently as if she had all the money

Daisy position

2018-11-07 20:07:31 UTC

When Mr. Lanctot direct us back to the first chapter, to her conversation with Nick after dinner. I realize what she really meant, I believe, and what Nick meant about her. When she said she was “sophisticated”, it does not mean that she thinks about other people more than her, it just means literally she is sophisticated, a liar. Her position is in there, in that secret class with Tom, and her role is to play her part. She is not a distinguished woman, different from everybody and has her own mindset different from her class ideology or modern than the period she lives in. Tom and Daisy really represent their social class

2018-11-07 20:07:40 UTC

I don't think there' s any love present, but I do think that there's a certain level of caring on some part in some of the relationships, at one time or another... just not love. And, I don't think it's all based solely on their personalities... just seems too superficial.

Social Classes

2018-11-07 20:07:46 UTC

At this moment, Tom and George are the same on the inside. The pain and loss they feel is unanimous across humanity. I believe Fitzgerald is trying to break down the separation between rich and poor in America. His point becomes that no matter how rich, or how poor you are and no matter how many possessions you own or do not own, everyone is the same when confronted with grief, loss, and pain. It’s almost humanizing for Tom as a character to see him, the strong, thick-headed rich man, crippled in fear at the thought of losing the women in his life. He is no different from George at that moment and the layers of toughness and aristocracy are swept away.

"There is no type of longing for anyone because the personality does not matter"

2018-11-07 20:07:52 UTC

Super valid point!! Personality has no importance in this book in concerns of love

2018-11-07 20:08:03 UTC

Yes, it is quite misleading, but perhaps it is to highlight the downfall of what appeared to be so "great" about money.

2018-11-07 20:08:17 UTC

I think this an interesting interpretation. I like how despite Nick, like Daisy and Tom, grew up with old money, you group him with Gatsby. I like the double connection, one with the circumstances of old money, and two, an observer that understands Gatsby.

2018-11-07 20:08:41 UTC

100% agree that Daisy is a Gold Digger

Daisy = Status

2018-11-07 20:08:57 UTC

I think that the money that Daisy speaks with can't really be dumbed down to just being material wealth. Yes she has all of the money, but she possesses the qualities of money that all humans at one time or another covet. I think that Gatsby "loves" Daisy because she is what money promises rather than what it produces.

2018-11-07 20:09:15 UTC

When you put this ending in context, it adds to the meaning and makes us see that you can't just ignore the past becuase it controls where we go and who we are. While it is true that people can change, it is pointless to think that the past doesn't effect you. As these lines talk about the american dream, it suggests that you can't change who you are or where you have been. You can only change what you do with those experiences of your past and how you let it shape your future, and I beleive that is what Fitzgerald is trying to say in the sense that money and wealth and status cant change what we once were.

2018-11-07 20:09:16 UTC

Not to be rude but I'm pretty sure that you read that situation wrong. Daisy did not intentionally kill Mytrle. At the time of her death Daisy did not know what woman Tom was having an affair with. Therefore she did not kill Myrtle in cold blood.

2018-11-07 20:09:18 UTC

I agree with this sentiment. Daisy and Tom smash up things, and retreat back into their money. I think Daisy and Tom are both like this

2018-11-07 20:09:37 UTC

I agree with this because most people try to defend her being different than Tom, but how you just described Daisy is exactly how Tom is.

me

2018-11-07 20:09:46 UTC

lol same

2018-11-07 20:09:55 UTC

thishere

2018-11-07 20:10:01 UTC

This is a great point with time. Gatsby even through the 5 years, always believes that Daisy is his. I think he finally realizes she isn't his anymore even before this point. He might have known the night he waits around outside her house but she never gives the signal.

Response

2018-11-07 20:10:03 UTC

you're right, Daisy doesn't seem to be able to pick with persona to keep up.

2018-11-07 20:10:12 UTC

I agree, in the beginning Daisy is depicted as a struggling and innocent wife/mother. I too in the beginning had great sympathy for Daisy and her situation. However, once Daisy began seeing Gatsby I lost all sympathy for her because she had become just as disloyal as Tom.

2018-11-07 20:10:13 UTC

Gatsby only wants Daisy because she is of such a high class. Her status would elevate his even more

19bostar — 2018-11-07 20:10:35 UTC

I agree with this. I also feel like we shouldn't feel sorry for Daisy because she does absolutely nothing to get herself out of the situation she is in. Rather, she continues to let Tom cheat on her, but refuses to leave him or do ANYTHING to help herself. She's lazy and jsut doesn't care enough.

2018-11-07 20:10:42 UTC

I 100% agree with what you have said

2018-11-07 20:10:46 UTC

I agree that daisy is a gold digger because she is trying to go for weath and social status

2018-11-07 20:11:32 UTC

I don't agree with this sentiment, I do believe that Gatsby wants status, but I think that he also loves her.

2018-11-07 20:11:44 UTC

I agree that Gatsby and Daisy's relationship is not based in love, however I disagree that lust is the largest alternative. While sexual desire may be a small factor, more so on Daisy's side, Gatsby seems more interested in all of the things that a long term-relationship represent for him: validation, personal and emotional wealth, and fulfillment of dreams.

2018-11-07 20:11:45 UTC

Yes I agree with this. The first love is really more of a lustful gesture towards money rather than love itself.

2018-11-07 20:11:57 UTC

Why is this not blue

Response: Money is a trap

2018-11-07 20:12:00 UTC

I agree with the fact that Gatsby thought he loved Daisy. But from the beginning of the relationship, he seemed more mesmerized by her house and her status more than anything, even if he didn't see it himself.

2018-11-07 20:12:05 UTC

I like how you worded this it makes daisy seem like the b*$#h she is

19presleyc — 2018-11-07 20:12:06 UTC

I feel like Gatsby is not atrrarcted to Daisy because of money. When he becomes rich, why would he still pine for Daisy? He already has money. He doesn't need her to have money. There has to be something more there than only money.

2018-11-07 20:12:15 UTC

She is really clever, she knows what she is doing and how to manipulate people. She gets the sympathy, the "love", aguy with money

lust not love

2018-11-07 20:12:28 UTC

i agree with this. I think that Gatsby was so caught up in having a woman with money and Daisy was so caught p with someone who actually seemed to love her that they were both blind to the fact that they didn't actually love each other for the people that they are, just what they wanted out of each other.

2018-11-07 20:12:38 UTC

I agree of your assessment with the last lines of the book. They are definitely powerful, because they cause the reader to think. The last few things you said are extremely interesting and revealing. I never thought about that read of the ending before and the idea that there is no present made me stop to think. That idea makes sense to me on some level, because it's true, we are usually either reflecting on the past or looking ahead toward the future.

2018-11-07 20:12:42 UTC

This seems great but it's above me to understand

2018-11-07 20:12:53 UTC

She already HAS wealth and social status!

2018-11-07 20:12:55 UTC

What you are saying is good and agreeable. Gatsby is always chasing after Daisy because of his past with her, but there was never any chance that they could realistically end up together

yesss

2018-11-07 20:13:16 UTC

Gatsby is, at his core, a selfish money and success craving being, so loving Daisy for that reason make total sense.

2018-11-07 20:14:06 UTC

But he's already got everything... he has the status, the wealth, everything.

2018-11-07 20:14:40 UTC

I don't think that you are understanding what this person is saying. They aren't saying that Daisy "intentionally" killed myrtle, but more of the fact that she had no consequences for the act.

Response from the Time Period guy

2018-11-07 20:14:52 UTC

This is where I wonder if I am focusing too much on West and East Egg ratios. Is it just money that corrupts? Or is it the type of money that corrupts?

2018-11-07 20:15:06 UTC

That is a very interesting thought. Gatsby gets money thought partially so he can get Daisy

2018-11-07 20:15:17 UTC

I totally agree with this. I think that Gatsby first loved money and then found someone who would be able to provide him with the money he truly wanted.

2018-11-07 20:15:29 UTC

It is most clear when Gatsby, Daisy, and Nick in Gatsby's house, and Nick realized his reaction that Daisy didn't meet his expectation.

2018-11-07 20:15:59 UTC

This made my argument feel better because of this statement

2018-11-07 20:16:01 UTC

This is so amazing and true the fact that tom was finally realizing he was human.

Stop. why would you do that.

2018-11-07 20:16:20 UTC

19presleyc — 2018-11-07 20:16:21 UTC

I feel like Gatsby and Tom ignoring Daisy is a very intense and weird scene.

19prendergastkl — 2018-11-07 20:16:31 UTC

I really like this response because it means that Gatsby seriously misjudged Daisy

2018-11-07 20:16:44 UTC

I too, think that Gatsby was more in love with the idea of making Daisy his rather than actually loving Daisy for the rest of his life. Gatsby became very competitive with Tom and I think his main intention reverted to winning the argument with Tom, not Daisy's love.

2018-11-07 20:16:55 UTC

That's very interesting in that the reader is led to believe that Gatsby is a great man, but even upon his death, it is clear that he is not special and is so caught up in personal issues that there is truly not much great about him at all.

2018-11-07 20:17:24 UTC

Well then why does he still go after Daisy when he has wealth of his own.

2018-11-07 20:17:59 UTC

You have a point that he would leave right after but I don't believe it was truly him caring rather he was trying to clear his consicen.

2018-11-07 20:18:41 UTC

 _______ _     _       _                      _ _          __                             _                                                                   _ _          _   _                       
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   | |  | '_ \| / __| | / __| | '__/ _ \/ _` | | | | | | |  _| | | | '_ \| '_ \| | | |   | '_ \ / _ \/ __/ _` | | | / __|/ _ \ | | | |/ _ \| | | |  / __/ _` | | |/ _ \/ _` | | '_ \ / _ \ '__|  / _` |
   | |  | | | | \__ \ | \__ \ | | |  __/ (_| | | | |_| | | | | |_| | | | | | | | |_| |_  | |_) |  __/ (_| (_| | |_| \__ \  __/ | |_| | (_) | |_| | | (_| (_| | | |  __/ (_| | | | | |  __/ |    | (_| |
   |_|  |_| |_|_|___/ |_|___/ |_|  \___|\__,_|_|_|\__, | |_|  \__,_|_| |_|_| |_|\__, ( ) |_.__/ \___|\___\__,_|\__,_|___/\___|  \__, |\___/ \__,_|  \___\__,_|_|_|\___|\__,_| |_| |_|\___|_|     \__,_|
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| |__ \ ` ' /( _ )      / /                                                                                                                                                                            
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| |_) / , . \ (_>  <  / / _ _                                                                                                                                                                          
|_.__/\/|_|\/\___/\/ /_/ (_|_)

He doesn't love her for cash money

19presleyc — 2018-11-07 20:18:58 UTC

That wasnt very cash money of you. I don't think he loves daisy for her money when hes rich because theres no point to love her for her wealth when hes already wealthy.

2018-11-07 20:19:11 UTC

Daisy is not a victim and that is so evident! I think this goes on to show how caught up people get with class over wealth. Self image was everything, and for Daisy, her "bad" deeds were so out there and fun until it is made known to the man whose back she goes behind, and she is brought back to the reality of wealth and status that she can't escape, and that is why she stays with Tom.

2018-11-07 20:20:16 UTC

Don't mind me, just walking through this cobweb of an assignment

The note attached to this one is true

2018-11-07 20:24:11 UTC

2018-11-07 20:24:14 UTC

So true that he just wanted to make it perfect towards the life he wanted.

The note attached to this one is false

2018-11-07 20:24:26 UTC

4

2018-11-07 20:25:44 UTC

2*2

2018-11-07 20:25:55 UTC

2+2

2018-11-07 20:26:04 UTC

2-2

2018-11-07 20:27:03 UTC

2^2

2018-11-07 20:27:12 UTC