LLRN Padlet - Patrick Kalob by Patrick Kalob

Agamemnon

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:55:47 UTC

Throughout the play I always thought how rude and self centered Agamemnon was. The profound arrogance that he had made him seem like he thought he was a god. This made me think that during the time set in these plays, a society that had literal Gods and Goddesses they worshiped. It must have been possible that a leader like Agamemnon would actually believe in his divinity.

Agamemnon

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:56:47 UTC

During the end part of the play (pg 46-48) Cassandra states to the chorus that Agamemnon and herself will be killed after walking in the house. She was given the power of prophecy from Apollo, but I don't understand how she couldn't stop it from happening. Agamemnon wouldn't listen to her, but for Clytemnestra to get the upper hand and kill them both seems so unlikely that I have to think it just made the story better.

Agamemnon

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:56:57 UTC

My favorite part of the play was when Clytemnestra finally kills Agamemnon. Even though she may be supposed to be the villain of that story, she is the opposite for me. Agamemnon thinks so highly of himself and treats Clytemnestra like garbage. He believes (and so does the chorus) that because he is good at fighting wars he deserves all of his praise. This makes me think of the gender roles of the time. Women have always been oppressed in a patriarchal society, and this is no different. Clytemnestra is seen as evil because she has the guts to stand up against such a man. She even killed him in the most embarrassing way he would have thought, showing that she was strong and calculated in her actions. This display of female rage is completely justified considering the lack of rights that women had in that time and makes he my favorite character in the play.

Libation Barers

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:57:10 UTC

Similar to my complaint in Agamemnon, it seems like at the end of the play as Orestes kills Clytemnestra, it feels like Clytemnestra is killed without any trouble. Just as she killed Agamemnon and Cassandra so easily, she was easily disposed of. There were no soldiers protecting her, no witnesses, she just tried to talk her way out of it. You would think that if you just killed your husband, you would have precautionary measures for if someone wants to avenge them.

Libation Barers

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:57:34 UTC

The violence in Ancient Greece seems very excessive. I am reminded of this when Orestes is able to kill his own mother. Even though Apollo says it is ok, I still have a hard time imagining how he was able to go through with that. He does say that he gained no joy or pride out of it, but I still take an issue with it. Was life so desensitizing and cruel that it made people more violent, or did he really think his murder was justified. I just don't think that I could ever do that to my mother, no matter the circumstances.

Libation Barers

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:57:37 UTC

Throughout the readings of these plays, I've realized how much of an influence the chorus really has. They are so opinionated and biased depending on who the writer of the play is. Such as in this play, the chorus is always against Clytemnestra, clearly expressing how they feel about the situation. The chorus is supposed to communicate with the audience to help them understand what is happening, but it often feels like the audience is being told what to think as well.

Oedipus

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:58:15 UTC

One thing that made me think after reading this play was the concept of the Oedipus complex. The name of course comes from this play but the psychological terminology refers (in short) to the desire of a child to marry their same-sex parent and view their opposite-sex parent as a rival. Majority of the time it is when a son wants to sleep with his mother and kill their father (like the play). This confused me because in the play, Oedipus didn't want to do any of that and had no idea it was happening. It seems like it would refer to the subconscious and the power that it has. While the play is a horrific tragedy, the Oedipus complex is seen (in some circles) as an inherent attribute for children to have.

Oedipus

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:58:18 UTC

As we read Oedipus, it seemed so strange to watch Oedipus stop at nothing to find the truth while also being so blind to it. Looking over the text again, I found a lot more understanding of his situation. It started with such normal intentions, I feel like all of us would be driven to find out the truth about our parent or what happened to them. At the same time, I also understand why someone would be so willfully blind to the reality. I don't think any of us could begin to grapple with such a twisted situation without intense denial. I read it as almost a comedy because the situation is so comically bad, but to imagine that actually happening to somebody reminds me of Oedipus's humanity.

Oedipus

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:58:20 UTC

This may be dark, but I honestly don't know how or why Oedipus did not kill himself. In all seriousness, the gravity of Oedipus's situation is too much to handle. Even though I like how blinding himself was a physical representation of how blind he was to the truth the whole time, it still is confusing why he didn't take his own life. Being blind does help his situation, in fact it makes it worse because now all he has are past memories. It seems like it his vailed attempt to take an honorable punishment for his actions. This is flawed because the honorable thing, as in the case of Orestes, was to kill the man who killed his father. In Oedipus's case, even the honorable thing would have been to kill himself.

Antigone

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:58:29 UTC

Just as pride made Creon resistant to changing his beliefs, the same happens to Antigone. She was too prideful to let the law be carried out, her devotion to her family caused her to have a lack of judgment. This makes her more of a tragic hero, because the reason was the love she had for her family, but what she did was still ill-advised. The loyalty to her family was her downfall.

Antigone

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:58:37 UTC

As I discussed in Agamemnon, the gender dynamics in Antigone are also very apparent. The basis for Creon's stubbornness is because Antigone is a woman wanting to "disobey" his orders. Antigone seems to me like an early feminist with the way she stands up for herself and what she believes in. Men are used to imposing their will/commands onto women, and any rejection of that paradigm is seen as a slight against their masculinity. So, Antigone questioning and rebelling against Creon's laws is an excellent portrayal of a strong woman standing up to a man. She is a strong and admirable character that battles against the normative gender structure of her time.

Antigone

pkalob01 — 2023-10-13 15:58:41 UTC

A theme that has been very clear in almost every play we have read is pride. Pride and ego have plagued many of the characters in these tragedies, especially Creon. Fearing that his authority would be undermined by Antigone, he remains stubborn in his belief, leading to his own downfall. The way he was so blindly prideful of his commands shows that he did not learn anything from Oedipus. Oedipus would not listen to Creon, and now Creon would not listen to Antigone. Pride seems to eliminate all reason and perspective from somebody and just makes them focus on not having their masculinity threatened.

Odyssey

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:52:23 UTC

One of the main thoughts I have when reading the Odyssey can be applied to a lot of other pieces of media both in this time and in today's time. It is always the glorification of violence and masculinity. It has become more modernized, but the sentiments remain the same. War is glorified, being manipulative is glorified, being physically strong is glorified, etc. This notion I find a constant in the media today as well. Whether it be military propaganda, movies, video games, etc., there are always these themes that are used as "entertainment." I am not saying that these themes could never be used well in media, I just shows how long these motifs have been used for.

Odyssey

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:52:27 UTC

This may be more of a general thought of this time period as it centers around Mythology. I understand that a time without our technology would make it harder to understand the world around us, it is just interesting to see the evolution of this. It seems that since the world was less discovered and observed, their myths were more everyday things. The ocean is controlled by Poseidon, there are huge Cyclops's living in caves, things like that. Very apparent in nature these things and seeming only believable if you were completely ignorant to the reality of life. This is contrasted with modern day religions, as today, we have a seemingly vast knowledge of the world around us. Religion has no daily miracles, not supernatural occurrences, and there are not people controlling parts of the world. Instead, it is The ENTIRITY of reality that is controlled. It seems since we've needed less explanation of the daily occurrences due to modernity that we need a more encompassing "myth/religion." I am aware that monotheism and polytheism have different dynamics, but it seems like the myths in this time were a huge part of the daily reality.

Odyssey

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:52:33 UTC

Throughout the Odyssey, Odysseus is constantly losing his crew as they keep dying to various things. By the end, it is just him who remains. I often think of the concept of a "captain going down with the ship." This mentality is very apparent in modern society as a true leader of a group is willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the people their are leading. This is specifically about ships on water, but is often applied to many other situations. Even in some cases, it is seen as legally required by the leader. Unfortunately, this is not always the case as there are countless events that show captains abandoning others to protect themselves, which is seen as dishonorable. Even though Odysseus seems to mourn his lost crew members, it is he who gets the glory. This shits my perspective on what a "hero" is as he is so obsessed with his own story and destiny.

Sappho

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:53:01 UTC

Sappho's works are compelling on their own, but it is even more interesting to think about how most of them are lost in history. Especially being a female playwright, women's works are especially lost or not appreciated. This always makes me think of everything else that has been destroyed or never discovered at all. Even today, there are millions of profound works that never see the light of day. I love thinking about the beautiful things that have been created over thousands of years. It is a melancholy feeling because it is so fascinating to think about but also so sad to know I will never be able to see it.

Sappho

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:53:04 UTC

Women's history is very compelling as they have oppressed and often erased from the narrative. Both in their own time and how we remember what they did. When I look at Sappho's work, it is very beautiful works that capture things that the men throughput history have lacked. I end up thinking about how incredible here work were/would have been if she was given the same opportunities as men. I makes me think of the "Hidden figures" of NASA's history, the women who were instrumental in the success of the space race. The women changed the course of history and they were not even known for decades. Showing how massive of an impact women have in a supposedly male field. These women's works were practically lost in history but thanks to modernity, they were finally known and given the respect they deserve. It is sad that since it is so old, people like Sappho are not able to be given the same type of treatment due to the technological limitations.

Sappho

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:53:06 UTC

Contrary to the male poets of her day, her works were more in tune to her emotions. This translates to the impact of her stories, and I definitely feel that difference. Something that is interesting is that I found out that many of Sappho's works were meant to be sung. This intrigues me because vocalizing these words inherently changes how it feels. Speech can be a very powerful medium of expression that words on a page can't be. Since then, I tried reading the poems myself out loud. It was interesting because I can experiment with different inflections and pacing to slightly change how the poem feels.

Aeneid

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:53:51 UTC

It is interesting that this book was a different perspective of the Trojan war and actually gave the perspective of the losing side. This is something that I often think about when I learn history. It is clear that there is historical bias towards the side of a conflict that comes out on top. The quote from Winston Churchill is "History is written by the victors," so I is very compelling to see a whole other side to the story and follow their journey.

Aeneid

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:53:54 UTC

I've learned a lot about Troy in the realm of mythology, but never practically. Apparently it was situated in modern day Turkey and was very important for trading in the West and the East. It was also located at an incredibly narrow straight connecting the Black Sea with the Aegean. It's place on the map also validates why Troy seemed so high in prestige.

Ovid

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:54:17 UTC

Plausible deniability. It is strange that Ovid love sexual promiscuity but hates when he sees the evidence of it. He makes it clear that its ok for his partner to have sex with others, but is outraged if he can notice that it happened. It is confusing how he hold both positions and not just one of them strongly. For humans, knowing vs not knowing is always a concept debated on. I believe it depends on the situation, but if you do not want to know then you are scared about the answer. If Ovid truly didn't care about it, why does he get so upset when he can tell it happened? Even in our court system, plausible deniability is used as a way to not be convicted of a crime, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Ovid

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:54:20 UTC

Ovid often objectifies the women he is interested in. Not only thins but it seems as though he only cares about the physical beauty of the women. He describes their physical form without ever discussing who they are as people or any more complex analysis. It makes me view his poems in a different light after discussing how he perceives women.

Ovid

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 20:54:22 UTC

Ovid often tells is lovers that he is perfectly fine with them having sex with other people. He even expresses positive feelings about it, introducing the concept of Cuckoldry. The idea of a man knowing/seeing their partner engage in sexual acts with another person. This got me intrigued on the root of the actual word, what is the root? It actually more interested than I thought, it is rooted in the animal kingdom, birds specifically. It is derived from the Cuckoo bird, a bird that is known to lay their eggs in another bird's nest and sometimes change partners. Maybe I'm just fascinated with words but the fact that this concept was rooted in observing animal behavior is very interesting.

Crito

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 23:26:45 UTC

In Crito, Socrates argues against escaping from prison for a few reasons. Specifically, about how the government should be respected and violating the law is a sin that would keep him from heaven. His "logic" seems to be sound but in reality it lacks nuance. A government should never be seen in this regard, and it is often the case that actions should be taken to rebel against it. A government does not have the divine right to exist and always engages in levels of oppression. Being a sociology major, I have seen a countless amount of ethical/moral violations by governments that should never be allowed. A government is supposed to serve the people, and it can (and should) be changed when the citizens believe it is unjust. Even in this country, full of oppression and discrimination, we have the rights in the DOI to act if we believe it is unjust. I really believe this logic of Socrates does not hold up in reality.

Crito

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 23:26:50 UTC

It is interesting to see that Socrates believes in God as he is such a promoter of logic and reason. His deductive thinking is aligned around which actions will help him get into heaven, and one of those things is not escaping prison. It is confusing to see him care so much about that as that thinking would normally lead a person to question god's existence.

Allegory of the Cave

pkalob01 — 2023-12-09 23:26:53 UTC

The allegory of the cave is one of my favorite analogies. It is simple but can be applied to so many things. My friend and I love to reference this because it can be used to discuss knowledge about the society we live in. The cultural hegemony of society leads us to believe a certain way about everything. It is dictated by the those in power to keep people ignorant of certain realities. This can also be applied to Crito, when Socrates is speaking about breaking certain laws of society. The institutions create realities because they are the one's in power. The cave serves as a perfect example because, in this analogy, there are people forcing others to sit and watch the wall of shadows. Those serve as the institutions of society that are dictating what reality is. Once you finally get out of the cave, you realize that the world was not at all like it appeared to be in the cave. So whenever my friend and I discuss how a lot of people are ignorant about the world, we reference how they are "still in the cave."

Allegory of the Cave

pkalob01 — 2023-12-10 20:28:25 UTC

This analogy brings up a good question, is ignorance bliss? this is implied because those who always remain in the cave are perfectly content with the way life is. They are not able to see anything outside of the shadows, so they are perfectly content with that reality. I have always thought this to be true in a way, but I've gotten more of an appreciation for the "bad" parts of life. It is all part of the human experience. Ignorance just seems like laziness now.

Allegory of the Cave

pkalob01 — 2023-12-10 20:28:28 UTC

An interesting conversation that I had with by friend as I was working on this revolved around the concept of the cave itself. The allegory is supposed to reference leaving the cave as gaining perspective, knowledge, and Truth. Being in the cave is supposed to be ignorance and a "false" reality. The problem is, how do we know the outside of the cave is any different from the cave itself, from a human's perspective. Humans seem to have a desire to know the truth of reality but are so limited in their perspective. We are constantly thinking we are finally outside of the cave when we haven't even left. It becomes a staple for humanity to believe that they have it all figured out, and throughout time they have still be so ignorant of the truth. It seems to be the human condition to exist in the cave. I know it is supposed to be a more conceptual analogy for ignorance but is an interesting thought experiment to actually think if a human can actually ever leave the cave.

Crito

pkalob01 — 2023-12-10 20:28:32 UTC

I was really bothered by Socrates not escaping prison, for many reasons. It did get me thinking about the best prison escapes in history. This link has many different notorious ones, including the people who escaped Alcatraz Island. I find that concept to be really captivating, as escaping prison is one of the hardest things you could possibly do. It is interesting (and unsurprising) that a philosopher is one of the only people in history who has fought to stay in jail.

The Aeneid

pkalob01 — 2023-12-12 04:23:25 UTC

Learning how long after Homer wrote his two epic poems that Virgil was born made me think. Those had stood for hundreds of years, displaying the fall of Rome. It makes no sense that he would write it almost 1000 years after. It wouldn't make sense, but he was commissioned by the emperor to write an epic poem that supports and glorifies the Roman empire. It only exists for propaganda purposes. This may be nit-picky, but it makes reading the Aeneid less meaningful, even though he was still passionate about Rome. I know all stories are told with some bias, but knowing it was made for political purposes changes the dynamics of how I read it.