St. Paul Bystander Training Debrief by Catherine Shieh https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD Instructions: double click anywhere on the "wall". Start typing! en-us 2021-08-23 14:47:02 UTC 2025-01-31 23:00:25 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet.net/icons/png/1f4a1.png fear of open conflict https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691498850 I see this showing up as being so terrified to address issues, that we just pretend they don't exist.]]> 2021-08-23 16:41:43 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691498850 Fear of retaliation in the sense that work assignments change, decision making authority is removed, etc. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691499352 2021-08-23 16:42:00 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691499352 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691499808 retaliation

]]> 2021-08-23 16:42:15 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691499808 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691500088 when people (white middle class) via email or social media with a "strongly written" complaint get so much attention. When others call or have a face to face complaint their style of communication becomes more the issue then the validity of their complaint ]]> 2021-08-23 16:42:23 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691500088 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691501008 Mostly white people in positons of power. 

]]> 2021-08-23 16:42:54 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691501008 Only one right way https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691501760 This shows up a lot! Limited problem-solving because we only have one way to solve problems that is "right." It's hard to disrupt for fear of appearing as if you don't know or understand how things are "supposed" to be done.

]]> 2021-08-23 16:43:21 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691501760 Being equal (legally obligated) and equitable https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691502221 our work requires us to apply rules equally but that is often not equitable.  We can however, use equity in our resources.]]> 2021-08-23 16:43:37 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691502221 When we fail to use plain language or take time to explain processes. More importantly, when we resist changing processes because "this is the way we've always done it". https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503000 2021-08-23 16:44:05 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503000 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503217 Fear of retaliation: work responsibilities are delegated to others, decision making authority is removed, left out of meetings and other information sharing opportunities, not being promoted, not being recognized, etc.]]> 2021-08-23 16:44:13 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503217 Complaint-based repairs https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503456 When our systems rely heavily on reporting of issues. The people with the "high expectations" and knowledge of the system get their issues fixed. From street repair, to code enforcement, to "quality of life" complaints being addressed. ]]> 2021-08-23 16:44:21 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503456 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503991 Policing of other coworker's style. 
If it doesn't fit white norms then staff are policed and "told on" by their white coworkers ]]> 2021-08-23 16:44:39 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691503991 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691504250 I see a lot of concentration of power, mostly paternalism where I work, where decision making is not clear and decisions are made without the input of those most impacted. I also see a lot of defensiveness/fear of conflict that is especially strong with Minnesota Midwest sensibilities]]> 2021-08-23 16:44:48 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691504250 Fear of being ostracized at work https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691504275 2021-08-23 16:44:49 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691504275 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691506814 people in power say that want honesty, or solutions, or new ideas, but when they are offered, the person offering those is punished by ignoring them, boxing them out of decisions or information ]]> 2021-08-23 16:46:14 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691506814 Manager approval https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691507641 Having some flexibility in HR policies based on "manager approval". This makes us vulnerable to racist/classist/sexist/ableist managers. ]]> 2021-08-23 16:46:40 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691507641 Power Hoarding https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691510028 People holding the keys to knowledge, access and opportunity. I feel trapped and bored in my position. I want to learn and grow, but the information on how to do this is not shared or I'm told that I need to wait.
I can't wait for someone to die, retire, or quit just to get ahead.]]> 2021-08-23 16:47:55 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691510028 Work Visas https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691512171 The city doesn't support work visas for potential employees.]]> 2021-08-23 16:48:59 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691512171 2 different people https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691517101 One person is fact-based - so I would use the following 1. show facts, 2. ask questions, 3. delay. The other person is relationship-based - so I would use the following 1. ask questions, 2. share personal story/perspective, 3. offer facts.

Essentially always the same ingredients, just different timing. :)


]]> 2021-08-23 16:51:23 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691517101 ask questions to intervene https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691519080 I can think of scenarios when folks have used offensive terms. I would start by asking why they used that term and if they know what it means. I would then share why its offensive. I would encourage them to look up alternative words and phrases to get their point across. I like questions because I feel like I'm directing someone to do the work rather than taking on the labor of doing it for them.

]]> 2021-08-23 16:52:28 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691519080 Personal Anecdotes https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691519412 Personal Anecdotes: I have one co-worker who can get defensive so sharing a personal anecdote about how I committed a similar microaggression and was called out for it helps to seem like I am not targeting them]]> 2021-08-23 16:52:41 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691519412 2 coworkers https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691520423 The jokester -- this guy is so quick to joke, and the jokes are often mean. I would ask him to explain his joke. 

The bitter one -- this person is quick to complain, about almost anything. I would share a personal story, to help counter her narrative AND change the tone/mood. ]]> 2021-08-23 16:53:15 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691520423 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691520448 Questions 
- Is that your understanding?
- Where does your understanding come from? 
-
- ]]> 2021-08-23 16:53:16 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691520448 Intervening at work https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691520932 Use personal experience.  Maybe highlighting someone i know they respect to show that they really don't believe what "they" are saying]]> 2021-08-23 16:53:32 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691520932 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691521450 One person--delay. check in later when there has been time to process. follow up with a conversation


]]> 2021-08-23 16:53:49 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691521450 It would seem to me that the means by which you handle the microaggression... about race and identity would depend on your work position to the person, i.e. a supervisor versus same status. It would also seem to me that documenting the microaggression... would be one consistent method. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691522108 2021-08-23 16:54:15 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691522108 Microaggressions/Misunderstanding https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691522776 My supervisor doesn't get or accept issues that non-white people face. I've been honest and told my story and my truth, but she thinks I'm making excuses. One example is asking for help. Culturally I've learned that asking for help means white people get in your family business. I ask for help when I really need it. I try to figure a problem out before asking for help. If I ask for help too much, then I'm considered unable to do my job or accused of incompetence. I learned to not tell my story. This is the strategy that works for me. I just stay quiet. It doesn't serve me well to explain and be honest. Ironically, my supervisor then says I'm honest because I don't tell her all my business. ]]> 2021-08-23 16:54:38 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691522776 Intervene at work? https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691524308 The people with whom I have a relationship at work in which I could address issues without fear of retaliation are likely to be the victims of micro aggressions or racism, etc. not the perpetrators. 
I would have to delay and let those people know I saw what happened ask if they want to talk, etc.

The perpetrators are usually the people in power and they do not take well to sharing with them, even in the gentlest of ways that perhaps they might be harming others, or simply do not care since they are the "boss"]]> 2021-08-23 16:55:29 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691524308 insurance requirements https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691527201 the level of insurance required for folks to contract with the city is so high and is such a barrier for small businesses to do work with us]]> 2021-08-23 16:56:59 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691527201 Internal policies https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691528528 Not accepting partial payments for permits, some licenses, certificate of occupancy inspections, and other fees]]> 2021-08-23 16:57:44 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691528528 Public hearing notices. These only get sent to property owners, not rental tenants so renters don’t get notice of proposed changes and an opportunity to provide comments. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691531586 2021-08-23 16:59:10 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691531586 Who Loses https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691553128 We all lose when anyone is shut out. Paul Wellstone--"We all do better when we all do better."]]> 2021-08-23 17:10:15 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1691553128 We are going to do a 'climate survey' and a net promoter survey that I think will provide data that backs up concerns. Also - the harassment BIPOC people experience personally also creates a work culture that hurts everyone. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694018850 2021-08-24 16:48:04 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694018850 personal story https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694019155 would use a personal story to address a situation with a coworker]]> 2021-08-24 16:48:13 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694019155 confronting assumptions https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694019507 Friends made assumptions about who lives in specific types of housing. In an effort to help challenge it, we had lunch near a spot - I commented on everybody's great dog, making clear all of the different folks living in the area.]]> 2021-08-24 16:48:25 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694019507 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694020893 "we treat everybody the same, whoever gets through the door will be successful here" this person has a lack of understanding that the culture in the workplace can be toxic to people who aren't White men. I had a private conversation with this person and explained how from my perspective they were off base and not seeing that workplace culture was a real barrier to progress. ]]> 2021-08-24 16:49:08 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694020893 Microaggressions/not validating all input https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694021128 -follow up with person to ask questions & share stories regarding how important collecting all feedback can be to best results/progress.

]]> 2021-08-24 16:49:16 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694021128 Provide room to have healthy debate on controversial issues that challenge our values and norms. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694025931 2021-08-24 16:51:43 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694025931 White supremacy shows up in the organization's work culture. It's deep. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694026563 2021-08-24 16:52:03 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694026563 White Supremacy shows up in my own conception of how to prioritize work in my area, and the sense of urgency around the subject matter of my work area can lead to a desire to move fast rather than to co-create programs with those most impacted by the potential harms involved. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694028519 2021-08-24 16:53:08 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694028519 only one right way https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694028743 this thinking devalues people and really tears them down on a daily basis]]> 2021-08-24 16:53:14 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694028743 How does white supremacy show up in your job? https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694029639 Preferentially treatment based on power position.]]> 2021-08-24 16:53:44 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694029639 What I am afraid of when trying to disrupt White Supremacy is my own lack of lived experiences and the possibility that I won't always even recognize it, that I won't handle it effectively, or worse, that I will be part of the problem. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694030823 2021-08-24 16:54:23 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694030823 Problematic Policy https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694034711 Complaint based enforcement is prone for bias. A challenge towards more equitable enforcement would be that it would require more staff capacity.]]> 2021-08-24 16:56:31 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694034711 External: Policy to have to go with 'lowest reasonable bid' gets in the way of contracting with more BIPOC-owned businesses. Internal: dress code policy https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694036571

]]> 2021-08-24 16:57:31 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694036571 Job Description Requirements https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694041337 review all job descriptions to see if listed formal credentials or degrees truly needed to successfully complete the job.  If not, then remove from being required.

]]> 2021-08-24 17:00:00 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694041337 Gender Equity Issues - there are so many women who work in the city but yet the number of men in leadership positions greatly surpass women. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694071371 2021-08-24 17:16:11 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1694071371 Policy and Operations: doing business with the city or getting assistance from the city can be so challenging for BIPOC community members. our intentions do not match the barriers we put in place (eg. required paperwork, legal compliance, patience on payment). https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1696350772 2021-08-25 16:07:22 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1696350772 delay https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701144268 I'd feel comfortable checking in with someone at work after the incident took place to offer support]]> 2021-08-27 16:51:11 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701144268 microaggressions https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701145194 1.  I would really question my friend about the facts and data supporting his position but careful not to embarrass (he is a facts data person)
2.  show my facts
3. listen]]> 2021-08-27 16:51:44 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701145194 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701146039 "That didn't sit well with me. What do you mean by that?" 

"How come..what do you mean when you say that?"




]]> 2021-08-27 16:52:22 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701146039 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701146349 Address racist remarks by providing personal stories from others I interact with-try to get person to think about things differently]]> 2021-08-27 16:52:35 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701146349 How do you know that? https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701147139 2021-08-27 16:53:04 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701147139 Perfectionism https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701147532 At every job I've ever had, it is always a white person who embodies perfection. Would be nice for manager to acknowledge that there is more than 1 right way to do something correctly.

]]> 2021-08-27 16:53:22 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701147532 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701147991 share lived experiences ]]> 2021-08-27 16:53:42 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701147991 power hoarding https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701150645 this is such an issue at the city, we need to share power amongst staff!! give other folks a chance to shine]]> 2021-08-27 16:55:36 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701150645 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701153335 White supremacy shows up in St Paul in the makeup of City directors, managers, and supervisors

]]> 2021-08-27 16:57:29 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701153335 Challenges I Face https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701154032 white folks feel invalidated when we talk about the lived experiences of marginalized communities only because they haven't lived through it or their lived experiences say otherwise causing them to disconnect and not want to lean into work around equity]]> 2021-08-27 16:57:59 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701154032 questions https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701155028 1) we are extremely facts and forms driven.  it is certainly an industry thing.  forms rule all
2)  communication.  people of a language that is not mine.  everyone expected to communicate in my language
3)  it is just the way that i am used to.  it seems easier.  laziness honestly.  

]]> 2021-08-27 16:58:40 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701155028 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701155144 I'm afraid of not getting a promotion and not being able to build work relationships when trying to disrupt White Supremacy

]]> 2021-08-27 16:58:45 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701155144 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701156313 1) not everyone feels comfortable sharing information, opinions
2)St Paul- not  all hiring managers focus on inclusivity and hiring a diverse workforce
3) Good old boy groups still-hard to break barriers (power and position)
4) Asian Americans are valuable to the organization and should be treated as such


-
]]> 2021-08-27 16:59:35 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701156313 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701158499 White Supremacy: Power Hoarding, worship of the written word, in HR there is a lot of gray area. 
Equity Challenges: Time and Resources
Afraid of Disruption: questioning motives]]> 2021-08-27 17:01:00 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701158499 Intevention https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701171228 What stops me is that I dont think anything will change if I make suggestions to the powers that be. Leadership never changes and this Administrative is all talk and no action. Who loses is the people who would benefits from inclusive policies and the people who have to take the time to sit through training programs that really have no support and go no where.]]> 2021-08-27 17:09:30 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701171228 Internal - Requiring approval of OOC prior to implementation. Requiring that HR approve/review interview processes. https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701172677 Post most temp assignments for broader applicant pool]]> 2021-08-27 17:10:26 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701172677 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701172970 Internal Policy: Work accountability, not necessarily a policy but this shows up in expectations of employees. 
 ]]> 2021-08-27 17:10:38 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701172970 https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701173704 asking ourselves is the requirements listed on jobs are really necessary?]]> 2021-08-27 17:11:06 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701173704 Accountability https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701181863 policies are supposed to be created fairly and equitably but they seem to lean one way or another. what should be a policy that applies to everyone doesn't seem to apply to everyone. it seems like application depends on who is involved and who is the supervisor / department/ division.]]> 2021-08-27 17:15:31 UTC https://padlet.com/cshieh1/SPBTD/wish/1701181863