Federalist vs. Anti-Federalist by Moram Elbeshir

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:42:29 UTC

Hi, i am Thomas Jefferson and my party is anti-federalist

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:44:33 UTC

Hi I am Alexander Hamilton and my party is federalist.

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:47:48 UTC

I believe in ratification because I believe that the states should not have to much power

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:48:06 UTC

i do not support ratification because the constitution was made while i wasn't not here and i wrote the declaration of independence and i believe that would should stay allies with french and not put money over friendship and support

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:50:03 UTC

But if the states have to much power than they would be able to break away from America and be able to become their own country

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:50:41 UTC

but if the goverment has too much power that will make the states want to become their own power

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:51:28 UTC

the states already came from a place where the government had too much power do you think they would be okay if they still had less power than the gvt.

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:51:47 UTC

True but that won't happen because they will still have power just not enough power to become their own country

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:52:11 UTC

but that wont be enough power for them

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:52:23 UTC

they want equal power as the government

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:53:54 UTC

But then the states will fall apart because there would not be one leader to make all the hard decisions.
That is why we need ratification so that the states don't fall apart

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:54:14 UTC

Because the states cant agree

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:55:10 UTC

so we need one un-bias leader

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:55:35 UTC

no thats what the states want though they want more than one person to make the hard decisions

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:56:24 UTC

the king of england used to make all the hard decisions for them which lead them to become their own country

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:56:38 UTC

but what happens when the states cant agree and a riot starts like what happened at Boston

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:57:02 UTC

With the Boston Massacre

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:57:26 UTC

then we should make an emergency constitution or any type of document to use in situations like these

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:57:56 UTC

but the states dont want to be under one persons power all the time

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:58:04 UTC

And to do that we need to ratify the constitution.
Your not helping your case.

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:58:53 UTC

im saying yeah you could ratify it but you need to make some changes

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 14:59:14 UTC

atleast have more than one person to make big decisions

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 14:59:31 UTC

That is what ratification means and since you are a anti-federalist you dont support ratification

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:00:08 UTC

i dont support ratifying the constitution

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:00:28 UTC

because there needs to be changes

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:00:34 UTC

but that is not the point the point is do you support ratification

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:00:45 UTC

not ratification on the constitution

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:00:51 UTC

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:01:19 UTC

2. After BOTH have introduced yourself, start debate topic #1.

-Do you support ratification? Why or why not?
Are you sure

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:02:04 UTC

i know

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:02:19 UTC

but i said that at the beginning

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:03:17 UTC

i dont support ratification because i believe that the states should be able to make their own decisions

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:03:28 UTC

and i agree

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:03:50 UTC

and we can't ratify something without them having a say in it

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:04:31 UTC

but the constitution needs to be ratified for the country to be successful or there is going to be anarchy

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:05:41 UTC

but when you do the states wont have any say in it what if they dont agree and only their representative does

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:05:57 UTC

what if they feel they dont have enough power

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:06:08 UTC

but the goverment has too much power

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:06:45 UTC

but your a representative of a state so does your state feel like it has no power

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:07:41 UTC

yes all of them do

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:07:56 UTC

they dont want the goverment to have power over them

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:08:53 UTC

ok lets go to the next topic

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:08:53 UTC

You are that reprehensive though so they dont like you because we dont have a representative over all the state representatives

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:09:24 UTC

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:10:52 UTC

i believe Aristocrats are the most important to america because could trade with france and other countries with our manufactured goods because it would make our economy better and larger, also farmers are not gonna be need that much in the future we could just trade with french farmers or trade our manufactured good for raw goods

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:11:35 UTC

you belive in farmers because you are a anti federalist

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:11:44 UTC

right?

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:12:02 UTC

no farmers believe in federalism right?

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:12:11 UTC

no they are anti

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:12:40 UTC

The pro- and anti-constitutional schism resembled the prior divide between cosmopolitans and localists. Federalists tended to be people with broader connections and interests: merchants, lawyers, and other educated professionals; clergy; and commercial farmers and planters.

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:12:40 UTC

ohhhhhh

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:12:45 UTC

lol

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:12:53 UTC

yeah i just found out

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:13:55 UTC

Aristocrats are the most important people because without them there would be no farmers for the farmers to work on and no money for the states

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-11 15:14:23 UTC

i meant there would be no farms for the farmers

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:14:54 UTC

i believe farmers are more important to america because our raw goods are needed to trade with england and england is our main trade because of their economy other countries always want to trade fruit and raw goods for their manufactured so we could get both farmers and manufactured

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:16:27 UTC

but the farmers are need because for the aristocrats to be able to make their manufactured goods they would need raw goods to start with and farmers provide that and aristocrats would also need trades from england to make their goods

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-11 15:16:45 UTC

and we provide that by trading our farm good with england

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:32:18 UTC

but the aristocrats pay for the farms to be made

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:32:49 UTC

but how would they have money for their companies

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:33:27 UTC

farmers were the first people to make money for the country to trade they made it possible for us to trade

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:34:06 UTC

and they made the economy better too the aristocrats would be nothing without them

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:34:45 UTC

but if it wasnt for aristocrats we wouldnt have cloths or technology

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:34:56 UTC

or factorys

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:35:06 UTC

but how did they get the cotton though?

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:35:20 UTC

from farmers and their animals

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:35:49 UTC

their factories need organic and raw product to make their goods

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:36:02 UTC

and all of that comes from farmers

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:37:58 UTC

i cant think of anything else so lets go to the next topic

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:38:05 UTC

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:40:10 UTC

national banks are necessary to stabilize and improve the nations credit and to improve handling of the financial business of the United States government under the newly enacted Constitution.

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:40:59 UTC

i believe we should deal with debt by state banks because the states know how good their finances and they know how to spend their money also the states know how to manange their money and they should be able to their debt their own way and when they can

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:42:26 UTC

and the government goes in debt for reason that don't envolve all the states only certain states

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:43:33 UTC

but if one state goes in debt then the government cant help it because their is no national bank

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:43:50 UTC

so it wouldn't be fair if all the states are in debt for something they weren't envolved in

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:44:00 UTC

no but the state bank can

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:44:37 UTC

What?

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:44:50 UTC

the reason for state banks is for the states to be able to pay for their debt when they can so they arent rushed and they can manage it

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:46:22 UTC

ok but if their were national banks then the other states that would be able to could help out with the debt

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:48:03 UTC

but the states shouldn't have to each state needs to pay for their own debt and other states need their money for resources and building

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:48:51 UTC

each state should pay for its own debt by itself and should not have to help other states when they need the money in the future

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:50:52 UTC

but if a state is in debt then they wont be able to pay taxes unless they raise taxes and then you have a riot because of the rising taxes just like we did with britain

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:51:30 UTC

i can't think of anything else

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:51:36 UTC

me neither

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:51:47 UTC

oh next topic

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:51:54 UTC

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:54:07 UTC

we should ally with great Britain because they are wealthy and if we trade with them then we would be able to get out of debt

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:54:16 UTC

i believe we should support france because they were our allies during the revolution

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:54:34 UTC

and they could gives us guns and resources for other wars

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:54:40 UTC

yeah but what do they have to offer now

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:54:49 UTC

guns

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:54:49 UTC

other than that

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:54:54 UTC

and help

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:55:08 UTC

they could help us with wars against indians

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:55:14 UTC

or england

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:55:32 UTC

but the war with england is over

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:55:45 UTC

i believe we should friendship over money

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:56:06 UTC

another one could start about the trades

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:56:28 UTC

because we are still trading with england but it could turn bad any second

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:56:36 UTC

but we need money to survive or we will go even further into debt

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:56:47 UTC

but why would it go bad

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:56:54 UTC

who is gonna help us with resources when that happen

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:57:14 UTC

when what happens

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:57:24 UTC

what if england goes in debt and cant trade or their resources arent enough

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:57:36 UTC

or our resources arent enough

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:58:32 UTC

we will still have to pay france the same as england

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:58:39 UTC

for goods

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:58:44 UTC

or money

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 14:59:39 UTC

and also britian is a major importer and exporter

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 14:59:40 UTC

but france could give us time as allies they wouldn't demand it roughly

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:00:00 UTC

and england would create tension because we will get rushed

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:00:12 UTC

why

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:00:44 UTC

and most of americans do not like england after the revolution

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:01:06 UTC

do you think england would help at all if we went to war with russia or china

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:01:55 UTC

no they wouldn't they are only here to trade nothing other than but france we could create trades in the future and we would know that they would help us

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:02:20 UTC

you dont know that they might help

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:02:42 UTC

but france wouldnt export goods

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:02:46 UTC

yeah they might we dont know but we do know france would for sure if we support them

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:03:46 UTC

and plus the french were allies with the indians who know how to fight wild style that could come into hand anytime

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:04:01 UTC

but they fought against us

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:04:17 UTC

we could become allies with them

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:04:23 UTC

if we support france

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:04:34 UTC

and we won so why would the indians ally with us

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:04:41 UTC

france could convince them

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:04:44 UTC

we are invading on their land

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:04:51 UTC

for their benefit

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:05:03 UTC

yeah but we won their land

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:05:16 UTC

no we took it

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:05:39 UTC

they were here first and we barged in and took it

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:05:48 UTC

we could help them create their own place

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:05:59 UTC

we came in an won b y war

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:06:29 UTC

not the thirteen colonies we took those without war

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:06:52 UTC

we had advantage

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:06:53 UTC

we fought for the proclamation line, won and they still wouldnt let us over

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:06:57 UTC

they didn't

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:07:25 UTC

what do you mean they didnt

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:07:29 UTC

ok i can't think of anything else next topic

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:07:38 UTC

that was a hard one

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:09:25 UTC

i think the their should be a central goverment because if we have a state goverment then it would be like if each state was a country with their own rules

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:10:29 UTC

i believe we should leave decisions to the state because they should be able to make their own decision depending on how it will affect and benefit them

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:11:02 UTC

but what if it affects another state negatively

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:11:23 UTC

then those states should make the decision together

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:11:43 UTC

the representative or citizens should vote on it

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:12:38 UTC

but then the other state would fight back and then we could have a civil war <-hint

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:13:13 UTC

i believe if it affects all the states then the central gvt. should make the decision but if its any less then 13 then those states should make them decision together and hold a meeting

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:13:54 UTC

if he states can't make a decision together than yeah the central gvt. should get involved

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:13:58 UTC

but they will never agree because they want two different things

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:14:21 UTC

then if they cant agree the central government should hold it

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:14:36 UTC

but if they can then the gvt. shouldn't get involved

dawsoncoulson — 2021-01-12 15:14:59 UTC

i cant think of anything else

moramelbeshir — 2021-01-12 15:15:12 UTC

ok then were done