https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9 Think back to Simon’s murder at the end of chapter 9. I'm sure we'd like to believe that the boys couldn't see who they were killing. Unfortunately, the boys were aware the entire time--even Ralph and Piggy. How does this change your perspective on these two characters? Please include your first and last name in your response so I can award due credit. en-us 2020-10-30 17:09:19 UTC 2021-04-10 04:06:40 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1399469765 All this really changes for me is the fact that now even Piggy and Ralph have given into some extent of savagery. They were both swept up in the chant and they did hear what he was saying about the beastie on the mountain. They are starting to become like the rest of the boys but given the circumstances I am surprised they didn't turn sooner. This only makes me think that they had a stronger sense of self than the other boys.]]> 2021-04-09 11:38:25 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1399469765 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1399886345 This event changes my perspective on them because of the inner savagery that has come out in them. Ralph and Piggy were too caught up in Jack's tribe frenzy to even realize what was going on. As a result, they are becoming more like savages even though it was going to happen sooner or later. I feel like this is the beginning, meaning further down the road there will be more consequences because of the savagery.]]> 2021-04-09 13:40:54 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1399886345 younesam https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400052084 My perspective of the two characters changed quite a bit. I would think that Ralph and Piggy would intervene and attempt to stop the violence. I believe all the boys are so vulnerable and wanting to fit in that they will do or act like something they are not. Piggy and Ralph are slowly starting to become savages and Ralph seems to forget about all his strict rules on how to govern a stable society. No matter who the boy is though, they all have a sense of evil in them like Simon has presume before in the book. ]]> 2021-04-09 14:16:16 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400052084 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400078100 I think the overlooking theme of Lord of the Flies is basically that there is evil in everyone. Because of this, I would like to say that I didn't expect it, but I knew that Ralph and Piggy would eventually show their true "evilness". I think that this specific event makes Ralph and Piggy look like followers. At the beginning of the story and their time on the island, I would imagine that Ralph and Piggy would have stopped Simon from being killed. Now, I feel as if the boys have diluted individualities, and are simply trying to fit in. ]]> 2021-04-09 14:21:52 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400078100 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400095665 2021-04-09 14:25:40 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400095665 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400099334 After this event in the story, my view of the two characters changed. They are so deeply rooted with evil now that they didn't even intervene and stop their friend from being murdered. They got so focused on beign apart of Jack's tribe and fitting in with it, that they didn't even recognize the violence of try to stop it. All of them have a load of evil in them but Piggy and Ralph see to be taking it to an extreme and forgetting about the values to govern a society. Things will just get worse if they keep this evil mindset.]]> 2021-04-09 14:26:26 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400099334 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400111534 This changes my perspective with Ralph in Piggy because they both were the more civilized of the boys so they could lead them to better ways but both of them gave into the savagery that jack's tribe has. There will be no one to keep the littluns civilized and they will all eventually give in savagery which will end in more consequences.]]> 2021-04-09 14:29:09 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400111534 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400272755 It makes me think, because the way the book is written makes it seem like Ralph and Piggy are the smart or characters who actually have some kind of moral being, compared to all of the others who just seem to run around the island like deranged lunatics. But, as you see in chapter 9, they are not too much different from all the other boys. They make these mentally unstable - type desicions, even when they know that they are killing one of the others. It really is pretty messed up. And to be honest, I never liked Ralph that much from the beginning of the book anyway, he just gave me a bad vibe. But I just hate him now, because it is now clear that he has no clue what to do.]]> 2021-04-09 15:04:45 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400272755 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400365994 I would like to think that piggy, at least, would bring to their attention that this was Simon. Simon stuck up for Piggy many of times throughout this book. Piggy and Ralph were sticklers for being civilized and orderly, and now have submitted themselves to a more animalistic nature. Even Ralph and Piggy, out of excitement, join in on the chant and commit this savage act with the other boys. Chapter 9 has allowed me to realize that Piggy and Ralph are just like the other boys. Jack was totally right when he said that Ralph was not a perfect. None of them are, but it was dissapointing to see all that Ralph and piggy worked for, was in vain, and they have allowed savagary and uncivlized acts to take over their once civil lives. ]]> 2021-04-09 15:25:01 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400365994 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400606961 This event in the story makes me think that Ralph and Piggy aren't better than Jack, they are all the same. Ralph and Piggy still had the feeling of wanting to join. They were the ones who thought of survival more than the others. They are now giving in to savagery, and not civilization anymore. Ralph and Piggy could have stopped this from happening, but instead they chose to watch. I thought Ralph and Piggy would go savage at one point, but not like this at all. I wouldn't expect them to just stand and do nothing while the other boys killed Simon.]]> 2021-04-09 16:18:47 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400606961 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400618708 This tragic event at the end of chapter 9 completely changes my perspective of Ralph and Piggy. Before, I thought they barely even believed in the Beast, and were on great terms with Simon. Simon would constantly help out and stick up for them, even against Jack. But throughout chapter 9 Ralph and Piggy begin to act different. They are usually reluctant to do things for leisure over efficiency, but decide to anyway. They are also usually pretty good about not getting sucked into things they don't want to do by the group. This all changed when Simon came over to the group and all the boys violently murdered him without a second thought. The evil and savagery deep within all the boys, even Ralph and Piggy, came to the surface. Also know thing that they were all aware who they were killing makes the whole thing much worse. Before, I believed Ralph, Piggy, and Simon the most civil people on the island, but with Simon gone and the other boys' sanity ripped away from them, I don't believe there is anyone left. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:21:29 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400618708 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400634881 This event in the story drastically changes my perspective on Ralph and Piggy. Ralph and especially Piggy were always portrayed as the better people and they never let Jack have power over them. They also were closer to Simon since he always stuck with them instead of Jack. However, this just adds to Golding's overall theme that human nature cause people to be drawn to this sense of savagery and overall evil. Piggy and Ralph knew what the boys were doing to Simon and didn't try to stop it. They were even tempted to join them. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:25:16 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400634881 millerra8 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400646701 After this mood-changing event, my perspectives on Ralph and piggy have changed drastically. I think we all knew that the savagery whin them would erupt soon enough, but it seemed to happen very instantly. If this event were to happen in the beginning of the book, it would have definitely been stopped, but at this point every single boy is losing their civilized personalities. Ralph is beginning to lose his leadership, and starting to become a follower of Jack. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:27:58 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400646701 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400647843 My perspective gets slightly shifted but all of us know the chique of how characters swing from good to evil out of nowhere. I am truly suprised that the boys don't stop after seeing simon though. I would think that they would maybe hurt him significantly then their humanness would kick in and stop themselves from going overboard. I see how Jack and the hunters are savages but even Piggy didn't say anything. He might've gotten swept up in the whole sharad but seriously, he is  the biggest mama's boy ever. He should said at least something! I did see Ralph's shift coming however. He is not that proper of a leader and he does tend to disappoint others. He must've been scared about what would happen to him deep down if he said anything so he just went with the flow and the mob mentality.]]> 2021-04-09 16:28:16 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400647843 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400652037 My perspective changed on the boys. I would expect Ralph and Piggy to stop Jack and the boys since they knew it was simon. Simon was a part of Ralphs tribe, so It would make sense for Ralph to not want to kill him. Ralph an Piggy were so involved in the killing of this pig and the evil of the other tribe that they had no interest in stopping them. they are becoming more like savages throughout the book and that is not good, since now there isn't many people on this island who are civil and care about getting rescued. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:29:16 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400652037 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400659311 The event of Simon's death has greatly changed my perspective on Ralph and Simon because it was a little startling to see that they would act this way. At some point, both of them would give in to the savagery inside of them, but it's unfortunate that they felt the need to participate in Jack's feast. Ralph and Simon have always been reasonable and civilized in some ways, so it is surprising to see that they would continue hurting Simon even though they knew it was him. It's very obvious now that both characters have become more "beastly" and I wonder if they will somehow get back to being civilized. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:30:59 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400659311 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400659739 My perspective on Ralph and Piggy changes a bit but not as much as I thought it would. I think that there is an element  where subconsciously Ralph and Piggy have both been fighting off this evil and savagery in them and the chaos of the dance swept them up and let them embrace it. I was a little surprised that no one did stop because they knew it was Simon. I think after this the boys who are still with Ralph will have to deal with what they did because they still have a civilized part to them. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:31:06 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400659739 pukszynek https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400664013 My perspective of Ralph and Piggy has changed because greatly. Although I knew that at some but the evil inside them would triumph over the good I didn't think it would completely control them. If this event would have occurred in the beginning of the novel I believe that Piggy and Ralph would have stopped this from happening or at least nor have joined in on it. This evil has created a safety net for them in a way. It makes them feel part of the larger group and safe because of being included. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:32:08 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400664013 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400670283 My perspective of Ralph and Piggy are that they are giving into savagery. They are starting to lose sight of reality, and this beast that is supposedly inside of all of them is finally emerging. The 2 boys were so caught up in the fun of dancing that they completely gave into it, no matter what happened. The worst part is that they killed little Simon of the process. It scares me that they are going with the mob mentality of the group, and starting to give into Jack and becoming followers of him. ]]> 2021-04-09 16:33:41 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400670283 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400710804 With Simon´s untimely death, I have only changed my perspective ever so slightly. I know that Ralph and Piggy aren't like Jack. But if they continue to take part in Jack´s festivities, like the feast, they may begin to be claimed by the savagery that Jack and his tribe have already succumbed too. This is where my perspective has changed, I always believed that Ralph, being the symbol of civilization, couldn't possibly be claimed by the aforementioned savagery. The same applies to Piggy who is a symbol of scientific reasoning, he´d be the last person to become an agent of the Lord of the Flies. Yet a part of me knows that they won't become as evil as Jack, I know that good people like them make bad mistakes. If they keep making these mistakes, then my belief in these characters will change completely.]]> 2021-04-09 16:43:33 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400710804 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400721941 Overall my perspective of Ralph and Piggy does not greatly change based on the events of this chapter. It has been clear since the start of the story that the boys would all eventually give in to savagery and it was easy to infer that Ralph and Piggy would not be exceptions to this. Although Ralph and Piggy transitioning from the most society oriented characters to showing savage behavior is slightly surprising due to how fast it happened, it was a rather predictable turn of events.]]> 2021-04-09 16:46:04 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400721941 crossonem https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400899342 My perspective of Ralph and Piggy changed a lot because these two characters used to be more civil and better compared to the rest of the boys, especially Jack and his hunters. However after this is shows that they are just as bad as the rest of them. They completely stopped caring about beig rational and doing what is best, and instead are being impulsive and senseless. Ralph and Piggy used to care about every single one of the other boys, like when they made sure to figure out everyones names and keep a headcount, but now they don't which is clearly shown by killing innocent Simon.]]> 2021-04-09 17:29:30 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400899342 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400906141 After this tragic event, my perspective on Ralph and Piggy has significantly changed. I before believed that Ralph and Piggy were civil and most importantly, the most rational of the boys on the island. The author lead us to believe that they always do what’s right in multiple instances, but after the murder of Simon, we can no longer stick to the same perspective on these characters.]]> 2021-04-09 17:31:16 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1400906141 moreiraea https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401522990 After the events in Chapter 9 my perspective of Ralph and Piggy has changed, but I can't say I expected them to always stay civil. The whole point of the beast, as well as the whole story, is that there is something in everyone that is evil, even Ralph and Piggy. I didn't expect they would get into something this violent though, because I thought they would at least have more civilization and reasoning compared to savagery in them. I am just more surprised how quickly they went from being the most civilized people, to being a part of these violent events. ]]> 2021-04-09 20:47:51 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401522990 bardsleycutlerc https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401550897 The impression Ralph and Piggy left on me at the beginning of the book is definitely different from my perspective now. They were originally the more appropriate example of civility compared to the rest of the boys, but now it's hard to differentiate. It goes along with the theme of this book perfectly to transform these characters. The Lord of The Flies represents the savagery in all of us, so it's only fitting that Ralph and Piggy grew into this prophecy.]]> 2021-04-09 21:02:49 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401550897 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401602816 Learning that Ralph and Piggy knew they were killing Simon changes my opinion on them from thinking that they were still reasonable to realizing that they are just as bad as the hunters that they dislike. Ralph and Piggy have been the representatives of civility and order throughout the book. When they went to Jack's feast, I thought they were just putting aside their differences to enjoy the meal. Now, knowing that Ralph and Piggy were aware that they were killing one of their own, it is clear they are straying just as far from their original beliefs as much as the other boys, even Jack. ]]> 2021-04-09 21:33:56 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401602816 madeiragr1_1 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401710399 The fact that the boys were aware the entire time of who they were killing changes my perspective greatly on these two characters. I always thought Ralph and Piggy were the most sensible and civil out of all of the boys, but this theory was proven wrong in this past chapter. I now think of Ralph and Piggy as people who cannot take charge when they are against a greater power, and they remind me of people who just go along with the crowd. The fact that Ralph was not able to take charge, even after he argued that he was the chief of the island, proves to me that he also had a piece of that evil and savagery in his heart. Piggy, who has been the most active in trying to survive and make a community on the island, did not object, even though he had a comment for every other thing the boys tried to do. ]]> 2021-04-09 22:55:07 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401710399 linr12 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401791024 Ralph and Piggy (alone with Simon) were the most sane people on the island. They were apart from the ill minded boys and had moral. I honestly did not think they would have changed, but I get that they spent a long time with these savage boys. My view on the boys ultimately changed after they knew that they killed Simon, but decided to not speak about it. They are becoming more like Jack and are become savages. What is most surprising to me though, is Piggy becoming like one of them. This is only because he was described as a parent in this novel and seeing that he changed after going to this feast was strangely weird. Ralph on the other hand, he had all of these rules and disagreed with Jack a lot which is why I thought it was weird that he changed as well.]]> 2021-04-10 00:08:34 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401791024 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401822672 Ralph and Piggy got sucked in by the others' behavior. My view on them has changed maybe by the slightest. Ralph and Piggy lost control of their rational sides, and went with what the crowd was doing. I can't really blame them, as it is very common to go with what the crowd wants/does. This truly does show that everybody in this novel has an evil and a rational side. Ralph and Piggy were both wrong in their actions, and I don't think that they are like Jack or Roger here. They just had poor decision making in this intense scene which led them here. Maybe if they kept up this savagery, they'd very slowly become like Jack or Roger, but I highly doubt it since Ralph and Piggy are the most rational and smartest characters in the novel. I do hope to see this as the only moment where Ralph and Piggy become savages, as my opinion very well could sway.]]> 2021-04-10 00:40:49 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401822672 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401935450 i seriously felt a slight disconnection from them. They gave up on their purpose of starting a different clan, which was the lack of order and civility in Jack's clan.

]]> 2021-04-10 02:46:51 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401935450 https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401995982 I thought that Ralph and Piggy, especially Piggy were the most civilized, but this chapter changed that completely for me. They seem like everyone else to me now, not caring and savage. They didn't even try to get everyone to stop, they didn't even think to themselves to not do it, they just did. ]]> 2021-04-10 04:03:19 UTC https://padlet.com/mmouchref/lotfhonors9/wish/1401995982