What atheists and other nonbelievers want you to know... by Rebecca Hensler https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b Atheists, agnostics, Humanists and other non-religious people were asked, "What do you want grief-support professionals to know about how to help you? en-us 2021-04-25 23:05:48 UTC 2026-01-17 21:18:46 UTC hello@padlet.com As an Atheist I find it annoying when someone assumes I am a Christian without asking and starts talking for example, about Jesus assuming that I am on board with that. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1506908232 As a counselor myself, I ask my clients if they have a belief system or spirituality that guides them, whether religious or non-religious. I feel like that’s open-ended enough. A belief system could simply mean that you believe in science. What that means to them is up to them, so you listen to what they have to say.]]> 2021-05-09 20:05:34 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1506908232 If there was one thing I would want them to understand it's this. Our people are GONE, we won't meet again, they're not waiting on the other side. It's a full & complete loss, forever. The only part of them that lives on is in those of us who live on. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1506910336 2021-05-09 20:07:16 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1506910336 I actually had a very good experience with the chaplain at the hospice house where my husband died. As soon as he introduced himself, I told him we were atheist and he said “oh, that’s fine, I help people of all belief systems” and then never once mentioned religion or god. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1506911224 There really wasn’t anything he could say to bring comfort about my husband’s situation but he did commend me on my strength and reminded me that it was okay to step out and take a moment for myself. When my very catholic mother in law showed up and asked for sacrament (I think that’s what it was called.) after my husband wasn’t able to give consent himself, the chaplain called me for permission which I really appreciated.]]> 2021-05-09 20:08:02 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1506911224 I had a therapist tell me “you’ll see him again,” also “He’s in a better place.’ Since I don’t believe in heaven and hell “seeing” him again meant nothing. The second quote is just infuriating. How was his being here with me bad? griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507641505 2021-05-10 03:45:45 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507641505 I hate it when therapists try to tell me about believers' "good intentions." griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507645598 It shows an obvious bias towards believers, probably because they (the therapist or whatever professional) are believers and they are seeing some of themselves in the people I'm complaining about. It's frustrating as hell to deal with and that setting should be the LAST place where I have to hear it. It also makes me feel like they are saying my feelings aren't valid, and I should just "get over it"]]> 2021-05-10 03:48:10 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507645598 Everyone I met with had nothing on hand [about supporting people like me]. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507646843 They always had to spend time researching this stuff and getting back to me. That's frustrating when you need help NOW, not next week.]]> 2021-05-10 03:48:56 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507646843 My worst experience with medical personnel in an end of life situation was walking in with my atheist dad to see a nurse praying over my comatose mom. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507656456 It felt violating. The sound that came out of my dad just about broke me.

But she just kept talking at us, "explaining" why she was praying while the full force of my mom dying was, at that very moment, hitting my dad for the first time. Nothing grinds in loss quite like medical personnel pretending death isn't the end. A room where several someones' loved one is dying, where an atheist old man is collapsing with grief in his non-believing daughter's arms, is not the place to try to spread Jesus. My mom wouldn't have wanted to be touched that way and prayed over had she been conscious. 

It felt like I'd failed to protect her and failed to protect my dad from seeing it. It felt like a betrayal, because I'd never imagined a hospital would allow that kind of thing.
Atheists are people. Putting the expression of your religion over the emotional well-being of a patient's family is not kind.]]> 2021-05-10 03:55:34 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507656456 One of the things different about atheist grief is that we believe death is the real and final end of a person. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507666440 Our dead are not temporarily gone, only to be reunited with us when we die; they are utterly gone. They no longer exist.

Imagine a person saying to you, your loss isn't real. That is what Christians are saying when they talk about heaven to an atheist loved one of someone who is dying. ]]> 2021-05-10 04:02:44 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507666440 Here's a thought, why not hire some non-believers to provide grief counseling? griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507668093 2021-05-10 04:03:55 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507668093 I lost my dad when COVID swept through his locked memory care unit. The hospice was ok and didn't openly push any religious agenda but all of the support literature they gave me was all based on Christianity. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507669244 I felt completely unheard and unsupported when they gave me the religious literature. It was at that point, I knew I could not depend on them for grief support so I just ignored their calls.]]> 2021-05-10 04:04:42 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507669244 It would have been helpful if they had just asked what 'flavor' of griever I am. I would have appreciated a choice and not just a generic, one-size-fits-all 'this is how we grieve...yada yada, strength through Jesus Christ, amen. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507670539 And be up front about it. Some of the 'support' looks neutral based on the title but when you dig it is just a 12-step Christian grieving support group. It's like bait-and-switch that just leaves you without support resources.]]> 2021-05-10 04:05:39 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507670539 I've had an excellent experience with hospice. The one exception was a chaplain on a zoom group meeting, who pontificated "we'll be reunited one day". griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507672774 I wish I'd been prepared to respond to that and remind him we don't all believe that way. instead i quit the zoom meetings. Another hospice chaplain responded to a phone call a few days after my husband died and was very helpful in talking me through being very distraught, without any religious words.]]> 2021-05-10 04:07:24 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507672774 On my husband's last day in the hospital I asked for a chaplain to visit him. My husband was Christian and I knew there was a particular thing which had bothered him and thought having chaplain contact would ease his mind. This chaplain was extremely kind and the first thing he did was ask my husband's beliefs, and mine (agnostic). griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507675347  I can't remember any of his exact words but he did a really nondenominational prayer and my husband responded positively to it, though he had been mostly unresponsive that day. I guess my message to chaplains would be to find out the beliefs/preferences of the people you are dealing with and interact accordingly. Simple human contact and acknowledgement of emotions can go a long way.]]> 2021-05-10 04:09:13 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507675347 I've been working with a grief counselor from the hospice for just about a year now and that has been excellent help. She has not injected any religious or spiritual elements into our talks. She has supported me and acknowledged my feelings. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507676863 2021-05-10 04:10:22 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507676863 Please, please! When I tell you I don't believe in god you must believe me. Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't tell me I don't know for sure. I do know. My person is gone. She is not watching over me. That cardinal is not a sign from her. She isn't waiting for me. That just makes it worse. It's like having my nose rubbed in it. Time will heal me. But it will not bring her back and it will not change my mind. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507677942 2021-05-10 04:11:07 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507677942 Please don't say that things happen for a reason. After my husband died, I was desperate to get support from someone who understood loss and grief. I was emotionally drowning and needed someone to help me understand the mass of new emotions I was going through. I went to a psychologist who specializes in grief therapy. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507686470 In our first -- and only -- session, I mentioned that I adopted my cat a year prior and he was a huge comfort. The psychologist said that there was a “reason” the cat came into my life. That almost pushed me over the ledge. I found that psychologist's remark offensive; it made my struggle even harder.

Therapists can help by just being there to help someone understand what is happening to them on a factual basis. Don't try to fix me with spiritual theories.]]> 2021-05-10 04:16:54 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507686470 We don't believe our loved one is "in a better place" or in any state of existence. We know that death is the end of existence and I don't want to hear that my loved one is proud of me or loves me. Pride, love, and any other emotions are felt by the living; dead people don't think or feel. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507688277 2021-05-10 04:18:13 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507688277 I am in counseling, and so far, I've been the one to do the research and educate my counselor as to different groups that I have found helpful. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507689657 I think being knowledgeable about different resources for non-believers, and sharing that list with their clients, would be a huge thing. It would show an awareness of what we're up against and give us other places to turn to, so we don't feel so overly reliant on just a few people or resources.]]> 2021-05-10 04:19:02 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507689657 I have difficulty knowing how to respond to the religious projections of others. I realize I am not the only one grieving, but it is hard to just keep quiet when another family member keeps pushing their beliefs. Equipping clients with tools -- even practicing ways to respond that show respect but set firm boundaries -- would be helpful. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507691723 2021-05-10 04:20:13 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507691723 What I would like professionals to know is that making religious references can make it impossible for them to do their jobs when working with us. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507692617 I believe they want to help, but throwing religious thoughts into the discussion sabotages that. Being presented with magical thinking not only does not jibe with my own world view, but also makes me pull back from the conversation.

So, please, do help me understand survivors guilt. Help me differentiate normal grief and depression. Help me with tools to dig myself up out of the pit that my husband's death left me in. Treat the anxiety that makes me find the world so much scarier than it was when I had my Mike with me. But please don't undermine what you are trying to do by showing that your premise is [different from mine]. Everything after that is suspect.]]> 2021-05-10 04:20:52 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507692617 I want them to know that even bringing up religion can be a deal breaker if they don't drop it right away. They need to ask that question first and then let it go. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507695187 Or they need to say they can't let it go if it's a problem for them and recommend someone who can. They need to know that assuming someone believes in any kind of religious afterlife is a mistake that can cost them credibility and clientele. A good counselor will find out where their client is and where they need to be, not where the counselor wants them to go.

I had one counselor once ask me if I believed in God. When I told her no, she proceeded to tell me about how much it helped her deal with her Mom's death and that if I would consider it, I would probably feel better, too.I never went back. My 'no' was very clear and I refused to discuss it further even though she tried to draw me into it. It really made me angry and even sadder.]]> 2021-05-10 04:22:25 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507695187 [I want professionals to know] that we find comfort in understanding how grief affects us physiologically. What to expect and how it subsides. How to promote healthy habits while grieving. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507696623 2021-05-10 04:23:26 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507696623 They should understand the profound sense of isolation nonbelievers can feel around death. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507697342 I could not find any therapists or support groups in my area that were even remotely compatible. 

I basically spent a couple of years spiraling into self-destruction because there was literally no one around me who wouldn't try to push me into faith instead of helping me cope/grieve. Nonbelievers can literally be in a situation where they have NO access to compatible grief support no matter what they do or where they go.]]> 2021-05-10 04:23:53 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507697342 Where I live there are no non-religious grief groups. I feel very isolated. I don’t want to upset believers in a group setting because they are going through their own thing. But I would love to meet with other people who can share in my experience without judgment. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507700716 2021-05-10 04:25:58 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507700716 Acknowledge the finality of the loss. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507702260 We’re as subject to our attachment systems as anybody, but we grieve the full, irreversible loss of our loved one. There is no comfort to be found in suggesting we look for signs or continue to ‘talk to’ our lost one if that’s meaningless to the grieving person. 

I can’t tell you how many people have denied the depth of my grief because they think I should take comfort in the idea my mother is still ‘somewhere’ or that we’ll be reunited one day.

Instead, ask us what we need. ]]> 2021-05-10 04:26:51 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507702260 To explain to them how hurtful and painful it is to receive religious platitudes. That's a difficult concept for others to understand, to get it. They will be better therapists for their grief stricken patients to hear what we say all the time. We need therapists who truly understand. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507703479 2021-05-10 04:27:42 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507703479 Ask if patients and their families would like to receive visits from clergy rather than assume so and just send them in. We had to refuse clergy repeatedly. One guy came into the hospital room and just stood there. I was like...GTFOH! griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507704228 2021-05-10 04:28:13 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507704228 My 17 year old son said to me ‘mom I am so sick of people saying that dad is with me, and that he is with us through all this because he’s not. He’s not in heaven helping...If he were with me I would still have a dad. They just say stuff like that to make themselves feel better and it’s not okay. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507705109 2021-05-10 04:28:46 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507705109 When I told the hospital chaplain, after my son’s suicide, that I was not religious, she kept all mentions of god and an afterlife away. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507705847 She brought up my beliefs, or lack thereof, I don't remember how... She was just compassionate and caring, without religious reference. It was an awful time, but she was caring and supportive. ]]> 2021-05-10 04:29:17 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507705847 When my boyfriend was found dead at home from a heart attack, I took the offer of a chaplain coming by. He was respectful of my concerns that I was agnostic and my boyfriend was an atheist. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507707766 He stayed at the house with my boyfriend’s sister and brother-in-law until the coroner came to pick up my boyfriend’s body. He was a polite, patient and strong man and said so many right things without mentioning anything to do with religion. I thanked him profusely for staying there so many hours with us. I will never forget him.]]> 2021-05-10 04:30:20 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507707766 I think the best way to help nonbelievers is to stop shoving positivity down our throats, stop giving false hope of some non existent place. And give advice on coping with the depression, ways to keep your mind preoccupied, or ways to contain the anger. Use real scientific proven methods of coping. griefbeyondbelief https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507708990 2021-05-10 04:31:06 UTC https://padlet.com/griefbeyondbelief/bphhhqjy0zetk84b/wish/1507708990