Guiltiness by Elizabeth Jordon

Adnan's Memory

joreli0908a — 2023-11-15 23:54:48 UTC

Adnan claims that he doesn't remember too much about the day Hae went missing and was supposedly, murdered. While this could be just because it wasn't a day any different for Adnan, he could also be lying. Plus, he got a call from a police officer that day, so it kind of contradicts the "day not being special" to Adnan.

The Phone

joreli0908a — 2023-11-15 23:58:20 UTC

While this is a smaller piece of evidence, Adnan's phone records and where they showed up with the nearby cell towers show up in the exact locations that Jay claims they went together. There are also a bunch of calls on his phone from that day that are suspicious. Not helping any of this is the fact that Adnan is sticking to the claim that he had his phone with him the entire time.

Cathy's Story

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 00:01:02 UTC

Cathy was not a friend of Adnan's and wasn't all that close with Jay. When she tells her story, she says they were acting strangely at her house and that Adnan got a suspicious phone call. While this doesn't prove much, it does help support the case against Adnan.

Aisha's Account

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:16:19 UTC

A close friend of Hae, Aisha, claims that when Hae and Adnan were dating, Adnan did seem kind of possessive, or at least strange, constantly checking in on her and joining up with Hae uninvited. This supports motive.

Hae's Diary

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:19:39 UTC

While Hae's diary never says anything too meaningful that could do nothing more than support evidence, it does go to some darker places, complaining about Adnan, seeing their relationship in a somewhat unhealthy way, flirting with Adnan even after the final break up, and noting how Adnan would show up uninvited to places with her, sometimes blaming her for not telling him. These notes do not portray the relationship well.

Weak Alibis

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:24:02 UTC

When looking at alibis for Adnan, there aren't too many. There are some statements of "I think he was here" and "he probably was there, but nothing too concrete other than Cathy, Jay, and Asia. Other than that, no one can remember where Adnan was after school that day. These make for weak alibis.

Adnan's Story

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:27:48 UTC

Just like Jay, Adnan's story changes from interview to interview. In one, he claims he asked Hae for a ride, in the other he denies it. This makes for suspicions to rise about him and his account of what happened the day Hae was murdered.

His Support

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:34:14 UTC

While the people who support Adnan and believe that he didn't commit the crime are sweet, not all of them can be completely accurate with information, exaggerating or getting it wrong, like Rabia when she talks of Adnan that first time. She lists off several traits that aren't true about Adnan, making her somewhat unreliable to an extent.

Every Point Is Double Sided

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:38:01 UTC

There are always "what if" possibilities with each piece of evidence. For example, a piece of evidence that goes against why Adnan would've killed Hae is the fact that, after they broke up, he would hook up with multiple chicks at a time, defending him. But, looking into it, there is a chance that this could've just been a way to cope from the break up. It's just a thought of why this could've happened.

Evidence & Witnesses

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:41:20 UTC

There are a lot more witnesses and people pointed against Adnan than for Adnan, with that list including Jay, the anonymous caller, Jenn, Nisha, Aisha, Cathy, paper boy, Laura, David (kind of), and, to some extent, Asia when she refused to go to court to help prove Adnan's innocence when the officials reanalyzed the case.

It's Possible

joreli0908a — 2023-11-16 03:45:37 UTC

The fact that the actions Jay lists off in his story are doable within the time he claims it to have happened is proof that there's at least a chance Adnan could have done it with a prestigious amount of exact planning.

Adnan's "Sides"

joreli0908a — 2023-11-30 17:58:55 UTC

There are two constant descriptions of Adnan: Sweet, smart, successful and cold-hearted, untrustworthy, clingy. The fact that these traits are constantly brought up, always all put together, makes a pattern of descriptions. While more people say that Adnan has the more admirable traits listed, there is still a substantial amount of people who call him the latter.

Jay's Reactions

joreli0908a — 2023-11-30 18:03:15 UTC

While Jay's motives and actions when linked to the crime are... questionable, they still seem to be, at least to some degree, consistent and reasonable to a point. Other people have accounts of how he acted after he did the crime, adding to his alibi.

Attention Seeking Alibi

joreli0908a — 2023-11-30 18:08:45 UTC

While it is true that Asia could've really, truly seen Adnan at the library the day Hae died, she could've just as easily lied about it just to get attention off of it. She even wrote an entire book on it and all of her alibis from the supposed situation are unsure themselves on whether Adnan was there, including Asia's then-boyfriend, his best friend, and even Adnan himself. Asia herself even admits to being an attention seeker at the time.

He Was Sent To Jail

joreli0908a — 2023-11-30 18:10:22 UTC

The fact that the Jury was able to see Adnan as guilty enough to send him to jail says something...

The Nisha Call

joreli0908a — 2023-11-30 19:10:57 UTC

This is a suspicious call that was from Adnan's phone to Nisha's. While it could've been a butt-dial, there's still a chance it actually was Adnan trying to call Nisha. Plus, Jay doesn't really know Nisha, so there's no way he could've set it up.

Psychopaths & Sociopaths

joreli0908a — 2023-12-04 03:28:48 UTC

Psychopathy is a neuropsychiatric disorder marked by deficient emotional responses, lack of empathy, and poor behavioral controls, commonly resulting in persistent antisocial deviance and criminal behavior. Sociopaths are similar, though they tend to be less consistent in behavior, whilst psychopaths tend to be more controlled and charming. Psychopathy seems to stem from more genetic roots, while sociopathy tends to be from trauma, especially childhood trauma. Both are connected to antisocial personality disorder, also known as ASPD.

"Snapping"

joreli0908a — 2023-12-04 03:45:29 UTC

Forensic psychologist and lawyer Charles Enwig states: "People sometimes lose it and when they lose it, it’s not always all at once. I’ve seen a lot of cases in which people have over a relatively short period of time, nursed feelings of rejection or anger or hostility and they’ve slowly risen to the point at which the individual decides to kill somebody. Those feelings simmer for a while and one of the thoughts is, 'Maybe I should kill this person. I’m not going to kill this person. I don’t want to kill this person. But what if I did?' The person thinks about it, and then maybe confronts the other person, the person who’s the object of the frustration and the anger. Then at that point, the victim or would-be victim says or does something that triggers it, that provokes the ultimate killing. Now the law looks at that as premeditated. I’m not sure that it really is premeditated in the sense that we normally think of it. It doesn’t have to be like a sudden impulse to violence."

Adnan's Worse Personality Traits

joreli0908a — 2023-12-04 03:48:30 UTC

Untrustworthy, bad memory, excessively charming, suspiciously calm, suspicious, liar... just to name a few.

Strange Progressions

joreli0908a — 2023-12-04 03:50:38 UTC

After Adnan was sent to jail for life, he became weirdly religious. This could be a coping mechanism or motive as to why Adnan committed the crime. It could be a similar case as to why Adnan immediately threw himself relationship after relationship after the final breakup with Hae.

Adnan's Actual Story

joreli0908a — 2023-12-04 17:39:27 UTC

Adnan claims that, on the day Hae was murdered, Adnan allowed his friend, Jay, to borrow his car to go buy his girlfriend a present and went with Jay. Jay then dropped Adnan off back at school, making him suspiciously late to his psychology class. After class and track, he went to the public library to check his email and allegedly ran into Asia McClain, though, strangely enough, Asia is the only person out of the people who were there to claim that Adnan was. It’s then claimed that Adnan asked Hae for a ride home since his car was supposedly broke down. According to some versions of his story, she refuses. In others, he never asked at all. After that, he catches a ride with Jay, goes to a friend’s house, then gets a call from Officer Adcock. Throughout his retellings of this claim of innocence, he says it wasn’t anything too special, saying a lot of “probably”s and “most likely”s.

joreli0908a — 2023-12-05 05:33:08 UTC

joreli0908a — 2023-12-05 05:34:16 UTC

joreli0908a — 2023-12-05 05:35:02 UTC