Module 2 by Lieve Donnellan

2024-01-23 05:55:19 UTC

persia

2024-01-23 05:56:06 UTC

Yes nuanced excellent

emersonwshurley — 2024-01-23 05:56:12 UTC

Persia vs Greece is false symmetry when one was so much more powerful and influential than the other.

2024-01-23 05:56:19 UTC

There absolutely has to be a greater understanding of the Persians as a multi-cultural and complex political society.

2024-01-23 05:56:24 UTC

bcoz modern scholarship is (at least somewhat) less propaganda-y

cinnes5 — 2024-01-23 05:57:19 UTC

I would say that yes, it is beneficial to be more nuanced. This is because traditional Hellenocentric scholarship was primarily from limited perspectives, and influenced by the cultures of the time

2024-01-23 05:57:23 UTC

I feel like a lot/all of our written records are written by the Greeks (or just the records that are privileged in early history) so it is very important to try and combat that bias. I enjoyed the concept introduced during the lectures that the Greeks aren’t even that important to the Persians, because we hardly read that in the sources

2024-01-23 05:57:39 UTC

The greater degree of nuance is understandable, and appropriate, given the primary sources are written by Greeks who are more likely to suffer from bias.

2024-01-23 05:57:40 UTC

this is red

2024-01-23 05:57:54 UTC

Westernisation of Greek history has obscured truth and therefore we look at it from a biased view even now. It is important to begin again and look over ancient history with a new view and perspective.

arsyme — 2024-01-23 05:57:56 UTC

I would agree with the broadening of historical inquiry, and the more nuanced views that attempt to make insights less biased by Hellenic sources, taking into account more and broader factors than historical sources would have been able to see.

2024-01-23 05:57:59 UTC

Persia shouldn't just be regarded as simply the enemy/obstacle to Greek imperialism - if we look further to Persian sources, the story would probably change quite a lot

uple — 2024-01-23 05:58:02 UTC

Although they place Greeks at the centre, they do still acknowledge the sociocultural factors and influence of Persia

2024-01-23 05:58:03 UTC

I agree with looking more into the nuances and complexities of ancient cultures to avoid generalisations, resulting in less bias and more perspectives. Although it would mean the readings get longer.

2024-01-23 05:58:05 UTC

history shouldn’t be written only by the victors, because we can learn a lot more about what NOT to do from the losers.

2024-01-23 05:58:06 UTC

Definitely not. Bias heavily degrades the integrity of the histology, and therefore requires more understanding of each culture. We need to analyse events before, during, and after major conflicts to understand the reason of why things occurred. By seeing “why” things occur rather than “what” happened, we can deepen our understanding of the cultural thought process that the Persians had, rather than the “barbarian” perspective that the Greeks postulated.

2024-01-23 05:58:07 UTC

we are further removed and have a greater access to information from both groups which affords us the opportunity for nuance

2024-01-23 05:58:21 UTC

There seems to be an assumption that the Persian's equally viewed the Greek's as their biggest enemies, when in reality they didn't seem particularly concerned.

2024-01-23 05:58:22 UTC

the western worship of hellenistic (and later roman) culture as superior has meant that there has been less focus on eastern powers and culture

2024-01-23 05:58:27 UTC

Yes, it allows for a broader perspective and understanding without creating a bias

2024-01-23 05:58:41 UTC

I believe the Greeks were a lot more nuanced because although a Panhellenic homogeneous identity was forming, they still first believed themselves to identify themselves from where they're from i.e. Athenian, Spartan, Corinthian etc. Each polis had their own political agenda and their own ambitions that separates them from the idea of being a completely unified peoples with the same goals.

2024-01-23 05:58:42 UTC

Yes I would agree with this as the contribution of the Persian empire to the east as well as Greece and bordering countries can’t be denied. It is important that scholars step back from subjective views of those Greeks who produced such primary sources and look as geo-cultural influence for what it is.

2024-01-23 05:58:51 UTC

The Greek Antiquity period seems almost entirely defined by its city-state nature. If neither Persians nor Greek society was connected as a single state like the modern states of Greece and Iran today, than we shouldn't force a definition.

Maybe where events occurred is more helpful than by whom

2024-01-23 05:58:56 UTC

yes, our access to information has come from a biased source. we can always learn more by stepping back from the one view we have been provided

2024-01-23 05:58:57 UTC

👍

2024-01-23 05:59:48 UTC

I agree because history is never created by single country in a specific period

arash2002amt — 2024-01-23 06:00:51 UTC

the Greeks were more free than the persians when they were structured as poleis, and that gave them a sence of superiority, however as they united to form more of an empire, they soon resembled the persians more and more. they suddenly had more distant rulers-just like the persians- who collected taxes, forced obediance and established laws upon their subjects.

in summary their ideals upon which they made their identity worked when they were more independant, but as they became larger, their dependance on a central power grew larger, and eventually they lost those ideals.