3B TNB Socratic Seminar Backchannel by Meghan Streit

Why is it Harper that kills Elwood?

2025-09-11 17:16:55 UTC

Harper

2025-09-11 17:21:02 UTC

Harper represents the systemic violence the boys and many other people experience throughout their lives. Although Harper was a friendly character for much of the book, he was brought up and trained in violence, and ultimately could not escape his background. The murder was less of a reflection on Harper's relationship with Elwood and more on his own experiences and the world in which he lives.

Harper

tllr9 — 2025-09-11 17:21:41 UTC

Despite the occasional kindness that Harper provides to the boys, his true nature is revealed through the murder. Harper likely is familiar with Elwood's attempt at bringing down the institution, a threat to his very livelihood. As a result, Harper displays where his loyalties lie, not with the kindness he shared with the boys, but instead with the institution, and the lengths he is willing to go to in order to defend the establishment.

Harper

2025-09-11 17:21:49 UTC

Harper is brought up by his dad who violently ruled in Nickel and oppressed the boys so Harper has long been taught and shown that it is his duty to do the same, compared to Spencer who has become a violent oppressor by choice. Also, Spencer's violence has already been demonstrated throughout the book, versus Harper being violent brings in a new aspect.

Was Turners decision to sneak the letter over right?

2025-09-11 17:22:35 UTC

2025-09-11 17:22:55 UTC

It ties in with the racism and themes of civil rights in the book-- Harper is/represents someone who is not outwardly cruel to Black people, but also doesn't care to help reach equality. The fact that he kills Elwood shows that these people do perpetuate racism, as he is perfectly comfortable to stay in a system where these boys are brutally oppressed, and will fight for the system in the end, even though he seemed kind to the boys.

Why did Whitehead choose to set the story in both the civil rights era and modern day, and does it affect our understanding of whether justice is really possible?

lisp3 — 2025-09-11 17:24:02 UTC

Who is the Hero?

2025-09-11 17:24:51 UTC

YES

2025-09-11 17:26:03 UTC

Absolutely, Turners decision was right because it shows his bond that he has created with Elwood, and how Elwood's extremely strong moral code has rubbed off on Turner to the point that he gains some optimism and the courage to stand up against their oppressors.

Baptism/resurrection of Turner

2025-09-11 17:28:09 UTC

I think that Turner taking on Elwood's name is not a baptism or the two of them becoming one, but a reflection of the silence and erasure that the boys experienced at Nickel. It may have been a resurrection, of Turner gaining an identity after his past one was erased and destroyed by Nickel, but it was ultimately a loss. Elwood lost his life and Turner lost his identity, and neither were less important than the other.

How is NY similar to Nickel?

2025-09-11 17:28:11 UTC

The marathon represents moving up through the ranks in Nickel. It also is closely similar to the boxing match at Nickel

Turner + Elwood

tllr9 — 2025-09-11 17:28:12 UTC

Based upon his knowledge before the letter was passed, Turner ultimately made the right decision. Turner made the handoff out of respect for Elwood's ideals, the same respect that would ultimately lead to Turner attempting to adopt Elwood's identity. Although the letter ultimately seals Elwood's fate, Turner was not aware that Elwood would be caught, and simply acted out of what he believed was best for his friend.

Hero

lisp3 — 2025-09-11 17:30:23 UTC

I'm not sure if there is a set hero in this story. Obviously, Elwood is the protagonist and main character because the bulk of the story revolves around his life and point of view, however, I'm not sure if he is the hero. Turner shows heroic traits as he let Elwood's ideals and legacy live through him after he was killed. However, this story doesn't seem to have a "hero" or a "villain."

Did Turner take Elwood's name out of fear, or as a means of revenge?

tllr9 — 2025-09-11 17:30:27 UTC

2025-09-11 17:32:50 UTC

I think Turner took Elwood's name out of honor for his friend as he then lives his life as much alike to how he believes Elwood's morals would have lived on. As well, it seems like a convenient logical move to switch his name to something so that it is harder for Nickel to track him down. Therefore, Turner took it out of honor as well as fear.

Harper

cmsl0 — 2025-09-11 17:32:57 UTC

Harper was raised in Nickle and amongst the staff. It would've been difficult for him to escape these views and beliefs of the supervisors when he's constantly surrounded by them (this is NOT an excuse, of course).

Similar to the boys, Harper himself can't escape Nickle.

Turner Taking Elwood's name could have been out of Reverence.

abhp2 — 2025-09-11 17:33:29 UTC

2025-09-11 17:33:29 UTC

NY is kind of the true form of Nickel in the sense that while Nickel had an outwardly facade that masked the transgressions within, it was rotten and abusive, and the horrible conditions seen within Nickel are outwardly seen within the NY setting, with the piles of trash everywhere and the rats. It's almost a continuation of the academy and furthers the idea that Turner and the boys can't truly escape the academy as the conditions within followed them to their outside lives

Griff

2025-09-11 17:36:21 UTC

Was Griff a marked character and/or was his fate set up by the Nickel staff?

Was Elwood a version of the author?

2025-09-11 17:37:16 UTC

Justice

2025-09-11 17:37:21 UTC

I think that the use of the civil rights movement as a way to portray how justice isn't necessarily able to be fully obtained is a great way to do it. I think the idea that it's not really possible to take back all the harm and damages that society have done to certain people, and with that I mean both Elwood and Nickel, but also with slavery and its affect in African Americans and the damages its incurred for decades, is an interesting way to interpret it.

Did Whitehead insert himself into the story via Elwood?

2025-09-11 17:37:34 UTC

The Academy

2025-09-11 17:37:58 UTC

How is the racism and opression of the Civil Rights era represented on a smaller scale in the impossible system of the Academy?

2025-09-11 17:39:30 UTC

Yes he is! He represents the hard work and determination that Whitehead has in his life! I also like the idea that Elwood is a set of ideals that Whitehead wished he had more of in himself and in the world.

How does Harriet's story relate to survivors of Nickel?

2025-09-11 17:39:42 UTC

She can, in some sense, represent an early-Turner ideal of how staying out of trouble and not explicitly standing up will get you further in life. Harriet has a very traumatic backstory with everyone she has every loved dying when they stand up for what they believe in. We learn in the story that the almost all Nickel Boys who attempt to rebel or survive die, and this reinforces the idea shared between Harriet and the surviving Nickel Boys that keeping your head down low and "dodging through the obstacles" will ensure your safety and longevity.

Racist symbols

2025-09-11 17:39:49 UTC

I think that the Nickel academy can function as a way to bring down the previous fundamental idea that slavery had been constitutional until the amendments were added is an interesting way to scale it. The white house where people are literally beat into submission is a really interesting turn in thinking about why it was the white house, and how it can actually relate to what the White House might symbolize to people.

Death

2025-09-11 17:39:50 UTC

What is the meaning of Clayton's death and the connection of the three deaths (Clayton, Elwood, and Griff) to the repressive and corrupt ways of the Academy?

Turner + Elwood

2025-09-11 17:40:53 UTC

Effective change making comes from combining the characters attitudes and beliefs

2025-09-11 17:41:16 UTC

I thought that the structure of Nickel Academy symbolizes the systemic racial injustice that exists within the world, as many of the African-American boys received harsher punishments, and were constantly facing backlash for their actions, such as Griff when he goes against what Spencer told him to do in the boxing match. Additionally, I feel that the rejection of an advanced education for the children at Nickel relates significantly to the real world, and how it was extremely difficult for Elwood and other African-American boys to gain a higher education outside of Nickel, and even when Elwood was going to take college classes, the systemic racism of the world denied him that opportunity.

Was Elwood a Self Insert of the Author?

2025-09-11 17:41:21 UTC

In some ways I believe yes, Elwood is a representation of the author, but I also believe that this representation is seen through Whitehead's common beliefs and experiences the author went through during his lifetime. Along with this, Whitehead published this book in 2019, after his account of dealing with wrongful police treatment. This also was prior to a huge movement "BLM" which shares similar characteristics to the Civil Rights Movement mentioned countlessly within the story.

Heartwood in the Steel Rings Tree (Outback)

2025-09-11 17:41:54 UTC

What does it represent in the larger picture of the Civil Rights movement - current day?

The Rings in the Outback as a Symbol of Slavery

2025-09-11 17:43:15 UTC

cylical image of abusive and suffering: neverending

2025-09-11 17:43:19 UTC

The Academy represents how racism continues to push people down and is a relentless system that can cause an lasting impact.

I think the hero is Elwood

2025-09-11 17:44:38 UTC

Ultimately, it's Elwood who has the biggest impact on our perspective and on our story with Nickel Boys. Elwood is the one who changes Turner's fundamental views and ideas, and with that, he takes the primary view of the protagonist even after dying, as his personality and his actions affect Turner for the rest of his life.

stee7 — 2025-09-11 17:45:28 UTC

The symbolism of being "hung" on the two rings, in a similar fashion to the cross, highlights how misguided the Nickel staff is.

2025-09-11 17:46:26 UTC

I think they are both a hero in different parts of the story. In the begining Elwood is the hero as he is bringing this idealistic mindset to Nickle. This mindset allows him and Turner to survive in Nickle for as long as they did. Later, it changes to Turner as he is the one who will later try to avenge the names of the boys lost along the way.

Heartwood in the Steel

2025-09-11 17:46:53 UTC

I believe the embedded steal represents the longing pain that is connected to the Tree. The death, the pain, the suffrage, all of this is embedded to the tree along and this connects to Black Americans fighting for equality prior to the Civil Rights Movement. The Civil Rights Movement also represents the rings due to the pain and suffrage seen through the movement in attempt for equality.

Personally, No.

2025-09-11 17:47:26 UTC

This is a possible interpretation, but I believe that the book's and the author's purpose is mainly a written memorial for the Dozier School. Yes, there is bias from the author as he has experienced racism in his life, but ultimately he never attended Dozier or any other reform school. Thus, Whitehead's purpose is primarily to convey a powerful story, not give a personal anecdote.

The iron rings outlasted Nickel

2025-09-11 17:47:59 UTC

The rings were used to abuse the Nickel Boys. And even when Nickel Academy shut down, the rings remained. An interpretation is that the trauma inflicted by the institution did not disappear with the closing of the institution.

To what extent did the towns people know, or did they know at all?

2025-09-11 17:48:34 UTC

Sick Nickel Boy behind the curtain

2025-09-11 17:49:29 UTC

Director Hardee dressed as a vampire (Dracula)

2025-09-11 17:50:00 UTC

2025-09-11 17:50:05 UTC

I think the fact that the rings are only meant for the black students and are used as a way to control the black students shows how even though the institution is shut down, the rings last, as does the racism.

The Towns people knew deep down.

2025-09-11 17:50:06 UTC

I think that the towns people knew, but they didn't care enough to look into it at a certain point.

Are Towns People Aware?

2025-09-11 17:50:13 UTC

They see what they want to see. They see the Christmas lights or they see the profits that they are coming from the boys' work at Nickle. People are afraid to learn the full story of Nickle as they don't want to mess up something that helps them.

stee7 — 2025-09-11 17:50:36 UTC

I would argue Turner is the main character. Throughout the novel, I found Elwood to be stagnate and almost uninteresting. Elwood's perspective and world view has been well documented in literature, unlike Turner's. Turner's slow, fascinating development from almost neutral to the cruelty of Nickel and the Civil Right Movement, to invested just as Elwood is. Turner is the primary focus of the novel.

Elwood is a stand-in for Whitehead

cahw5 — 2025-09-12 14:57:09 UTC

Another reason why this was one of my first impressions of Elwood as a character is because, if you think about it, Elwood isn't a flawed character. It's less obvious because Elwood's character has a purpose in the story since he is a driving force, kind of haunting the narrative after his death, but Elwood himself was never really a flawed character. The first thing we learn is that he's not like other kids his age, more centered, academically smart, driven, committed, with a strong sense of justice. Always seeking to challenge himself with rigorous work, trying to go to college and persevere despite all the barrier the world placed on him. He isn't a flawed character in the same way Harper or Turner might be. He led a relatively conflict free existence since most of his problems primarily stem from being a good person! He's objectively good and in the context of Nickel Academy, that makes him stick out like a sore thumb. Isn't that kind of weird?