Grading From the Inside Out by Lindsay Tschirhart

Schimmer writes that shifting grading practices often begins with just one small change.

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-04-23 18:20:40 UTC

What’s one grading shift you feel ready to make? What support would help you implement it with confidence?

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-04-23 18:24:42 UTC

What tensions or questions do you have about aligning district policy with the ideas in the book? (Grading Policy Pg. 63)

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-04-23 18:25:51 UTC

Optional: Drop in rubrics, gradebook screenshots, parent communication templates, or campus-specific practices that support some of the ideas in Grading from the Inside Out

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-04-23 18:26:24 UTC

Optional: Have you tried something that aligns with this book’s ideas? Share your experience!

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-04-23 18:32:05 UTC

Schimmer argues that academic achievement should be reported separately from student behaviors like effort, participation, or responsibility. What challenges or concerns do you anticipate in making this shift in your own grading practices?

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-06-10 16:20:59 UTC

Reflect on current grading practices—which ones fall short in terms of accurately reflecting student learning or building student confidence?

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-06-10 17:49:28 UTC

What side of the homework debate do you fall on? Explain that position.

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-06-10 17:51:22 UTC

On a scale of 1-10(with 1 being not at all and 10 being already there), where are you in terms of removing punitive consequences from your grading practices? Explain why you chose the number you chose.

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-06-10 17:53:30 UTC

What stood out to you most in Grading from the Inside Out? List the ideas that made the most impact.

lindsaytschirhart — 2025-06-10 17:55:42 UTC

What are you still curious about or unsure of? Share your questions so we can make the most of our time together in July.

jessicaredwine1 — 2025-06-18 03:27:54 UTC

Grading practices I think currently do not build student confidence because everything takes time, and just like adults children want the instant gratification. "Is this okay, did I do this right" is what we hear. It has to be put in a pile and graded during conference/lunch/at home and we are not giving students the feedback they need to help with the confidence. At times with students its a number on a paper and has no meaning. In other instances its a upset to a hard working student who got an 80, now devastated and second guesses everything they do from that point.

jessicaredwine1 — 2025-06-18 03:37:59 UTC

Homework, like the book states on pg 79 "Can have a counterproductive effect". I am on the call against homework due to school and home separation. We as adults are taught to leave it at work, come home and decompress. WHY would we want to be different to the children? Because we are adults they are children? Because we think they need the supports? How are we supporting their academic learning if we are not there to guide them, assist in working on it correctly. I also have a long list of reasons why I think homework is a NO. A single mother with multiple children, a 2 parent working home with children in extra curricular activities, the student that does not understand it so we send it home so he can keep trying and being upset that he still doesn't get it. I am rambling but its my vent against homework. I say instead of electronics, read at home.

jessicaredwine1 — 2025-06-18 03:46:15 UTC

10- due to the grades I have taught. I did Pre-k 10 years and Kinder 1 year. My grades are very different than 1st through 12th that are required to put numbers into a gradebook. I have never had to do that so I do not feel I can speak on the matter.

jessicaredwine1 — 2025-06-18 03:52:11 UTC

I would love it if we could get away from the one size fits all Report Card. We have students that are all on different levels and come to us low/high and we are using the same tools to grade them. As a teacher and parent I would like this to be a change and maybe more of a progress report than a grade and not a letter or number but words that have meaning. This would work at the Elementary level I am not sure about upper grades with over 100 students.

jessicaredwine1 — 2025-06-18 04:10:55 UTC

Making a shift is easier said than done but it would be interesting to see the emotion taken out of grades. Effort, participation and behavior has nothing to do with the 89 we received on a test.

The challenge's I see happening are people stuck in their ways (admin/educators). If we are not all making the change we are doing a disservice to the student/parents in our lack of communication.

2025-06-29 19:16:04 UTC

One grading practice that falls short is grading for completion. Students often ask "is this is a grade" because if it's not they won't do it. As important practice is, students have been conditioned to expect the grade equals completion not to show proficiency, not to build confidence. Now more so with AI students feel they would rather input the assignment into AI to get the right answer versus trying and missing a few so that they can see where they struggle or lack comprehension which prevent the teacher from truly providing opportunity for actual growth and learning.

2025-06-30 16:17:08 UTC

I have in the past graded based on completion. I hate it when students ask "Is this for a grade?" My answer is always, "Why else would I be giving you the assignment?" I grade on occasion to see what the student is willing to do, mainly as an easy grade for the students, but even then I am amazed at the number of missing assignments. In my opinion, the practice of grading should be more about accountability. I tell students that want tutoring that I will not allow it if they do not put forth an effort. How can I help them if I don't know what they need help with? With that said, how can I know what they need help with if I cannot see what they can and cannot do? I refuse to grade on a curve or take off for late work as I want to see what they have been able to do based on the instruction given.

2025-06-30 17:07:47 UTC

There is merit in grading students solely based on what they demonstrate in the answers they give, but I think that education is based more on knowing how to apply the lessons learned and not just understanding the lessons. I think it is important to se what the students know, but to see their full understanding, especially coming from teaching math, it is important to see why the students need to know what is being taught. What I mean is that the student cannot demonstrate what they are learning if we do not look at their ability and effort as much as we do their actual answers. They could know and understand the process, but may make an error along the way. They can demonstrate they know the process, but may need to have their procedure adjusted.

2025-06-30 17:36:59 UTC

I am at an 8. I do not take off for assignments turned in late as long as it is turned in within the three-week grading period, then I don't take it anymore, but at the end of the six-weeks I do still offer the chance for students to turn in missing work for up to a 70.

2025-06-30 18:29:11 UTC

I am honestly on the fence when it comes to the homework debate. Yes, I do agree that students are still kids, and even at the high school level need to enjoy their childhood. However, I look at it in the same sense as a coach or at times in a military stance. We maintain readiness in the military not by being deployed, but by the ongoing training. The same is true with a sport's team. I do not know a team around that doesn't ask their players to practice outside of practice. I learned that lesson the hard way when I was in school and did not practice outside of the scheduled practice or class period in school. I firmly believe that the student does need to have homework, but I grade it primarily on how they attempt and the effort they put in.

2025-06-30 19:04:17 UTC

I know this is not necessarily possible, but I would like to give a numerical grade for the students achievements but have the report card just show Pass or Fail. The reason is that the students are concerned with passing, especially in the middle school grades. What I want to see is the students show more consistency and willingness to do their work and show what they are learning, and I feel that by focusing on whether or not they passed is more important than whether or not they completed the work. With that said, I would raise the pass from a 70 to 75 to start with.

2025-06-30 20:12:01 UTC

I think to an extent the students do not fully understand the grading policy, nor what it means if they get a low grade. I tell the students on a regular basis that in order to come back from a 0, you need three 100s to average a passing grade. With a 50 you only need 0ne 100 to bounce back to passing. However, the common question, "Is this for a grade?" shows the students lack of understanding and care for the grades. Too many think that turning in an assignment is a passing grade. What I see with many students is that the grading policy has led many students to think that the teachers are only taking the required amount of grades. I for one had a student that ended up failing because he thought the last four assignments were not necessary when he had a 75.

2025-06-30 21:08:57 UTC

I read ahead and enjoyed the conversation on how we use grades in the classroom. It is important to understand the proficiency of the students, checking for more than just understanding, but also application. I think that it is important to look at students' achievements based not on grades, but on the capabilities. How well do they demonstrate their understanding? We already have students that get listed or identified within the MTSS Tiers, but is that really the best indicator of who is able to do the work or not? I feel that grades should not just be a number, but truly based on what the students are demonstrating. Maybe we as a district should look at new ways to do grades.

2025-06-30 21:24:01 UTC

I have tried to incorporate grading without giving deductions in grade just because the assignment was not turned in on time. However, what I have found is that the fewer consequences given, the less accountability we as a teacher can offer back to students. My least favorite question asked in class is "Is this for a grade?" And as a result I have gotten to where I don't tell my students what is being graded and what is not. I have even gone as far as giving my students as many as 35 grades in a 6 weeks grading period. I did so to show how easily the students can fall behind, and did drop about half of the grades as they were redundant, but I wanted my students to know that grades are important and though at times we don't take many, it is for their benefit that any are taken at all.

2025-06-30 21:56:40 UTC

I will be honest and up front. Every time we are given a new policy for grading, there is push back from the teachers and frustration from the administration. My concern is that if we can get an agreement between the staff and administration on a new grading policy that will both encourage students and hold them accountable, how do we get parents on board, much less the student?

carmenharris — 2025-07-03 16:17:19 UTC

I believe that the pressures of the grading and the “you should at least give them a 50” does not help them with their confidence but inhibits them needing confidence. We need to build their confidence and pride by grading what they know and how they build on it. So being pressured by admin, Sped “requirements “ and counselors to just pass them does not prepare them for the real world.

carmenharris — 2025-07-03 17:30:35 UTC

I believe this may be challenging in classes like studio art, culinary art, Athletics, where participation is a requirement to show mastery. However, I think the transition in Core subjects may be beneficial in helping student to actually master the subject instead of being graded on the effort. They may need additional steps to reach mastery but they would gain knowledge and confidence along the way.

carmenharris — 2025-07-03 17:45:03 UTC

8-I teach studio art classes and time management is a major part of my grading practices. I don’t take points off for late assignments because everyone works at different paces. Time management isn’t meant to be punitive but I can see how it is interpreted that way. I am intrigued on removing punitive grading but also nervous on how students may interpret that in a project based class.

2025-07-03 19:29:29 UTC

8 After a certain time point (like over two- three weeks) I no longer accept the work and put in a 50, but as far as taking off for punitive measures and behavior I don't. The students' work speaks for itself and in any case I always add points

2025-07-03 19:34:06 UTC

I was actually on the "no HW" side of the fence before reading this book. More practice without guidance isn't too beneficial. After reading this book I'm looking at HW as a possibility at the beginning, as a way to start the learning, not taking it for a grade so it boosts student confidence and is useful. I plan on using this next year but I'm still working out what to do for those that don't do the homework and not make it punitive .

2025-07-03 21:10:21 UTC

The challenge of time is something I anticipate. As schimmer said "give students credit for what they know regardless of how slowly they got there." Yes I appreciate the validity of that statement but at what point do we call it? Another challenge is teaching students to accurately reflect on their assessment results. I would like to implement that so it may take me a few tries to get right.

2025-07-03 21:14:58 UTC

One grading shift I am ready to make is to consider the average, the median and mode. I think the main support I would like would be administrative support in making subjective grading decisions like this that have merit in showing a students progress towards proficiency without being made to feel like I'm targeting students or not being fair, when that is exactly what I try to do.

2025-07-03 21:19:23 UTC

Aligning district policy or enforcement of the policy that I'm thinking about is when it gets to behavioral and disciplinary interventions for making that shift to redefining accountability. I think that is a reason teachers turn to "punitive grading" is because the school doesn't want to attract attention from the state for too many referrals so it falls on the teacher to be able to hold students accountable in some way that holds some weight.

2025-07-03 21:24:30 UTC

I took away the eight questions to giving homework as a way to also reflect on the assignments I give in class to make the most of the instructional time. Like szabo said I also like the point made by schimmer that teachers should be given the authority to make certain calls just like a doctor or a lawyer would be given that credibility automatically.

2025-07-03 21:32:19 UTC

Questions on my mind are how to bring admin and parents on board?

While it made a lot of good suggestions on how to discuss standards based grading with PLC how am I going to implement this into my lessons?

Critique: This book was published pre-pandemic. While the ideas are still relevant and valid how has student and parent minds shifted especially since a lot of kids went through at least to levels of school with the least amount of rigor and accountability?

carmenharris — 2025-07-06 13:42:52 UTC

On one hand, I do not believe that high school students should have homework. At this level most of them have extra curriculars that keep them out late and many of them have part-time and possibly full-time jobs. This means that most of the homework goes undone and then it inhibits their grade. I believe that we set a bad presidence when we pile homework on them. We add unnecessary stress and teach them to bring their work home with them. This leads to being overworked and puts strain on friendships/relationships. However, at younger grade levels I think it can allow extra practice for those that require a little help, not busy work, help.

carmenharris — 2025-07-06 13:58:40 UTC

At this point, I am really not sure. I already use a 5 point grading rubric to assess the students projects/work. However, I may reevaluate the way I grade the warm-ups. I can start by reassessing their validity and how they are building on student learning. consider grading them as mini-projects instead of on completion. I think the biggest support I could use is a common planning time with my team to build a curriculum so we are on the same page.

carmenharris — 2025-07-06 14:12:31 UTC

Well I struggle with the grading polocy saying mastery but yet students are passing well below level. We need to reevaluate the grading policy as a whole. We need to set the "bar" for the students and hold them to it. I feel like the students do not even care if they learn as long as they get that passing grade. So, how do we shift the focus from the grade to the learning under the MVISD grading policy? How do we get administrtors, councelors and parents to shift their focus too? We need our students to graduate with the knowledge they require to become a contribution to society.

carmenharris — 2025-07-06 14:33:18 UTC

I really liked the levels of proficiency and what each level stands for. I already use grading rubrics like this so having the grade reflected like this makes the most sense to me. I think that parents would prefer a level of proficiency rather than an "89"....they then see a failure to not get a "90" instead of seeing the true nature of the "grade".

carmenharris — 2025-07-06 14:40:19 UTC

All my projects are mastery based and graded using a 5 point rubric. However, the rubric must then be transforned into a grade for the gradebook. This is where the trouble starts....it becomes a "how come I didn't get a 90?" instead of them using the rubric to build their mastery. I have used the mastery grading in another school and was very successful but I also had a strong PLC team. We built our curriculum from the ground up and if something wasn't working we reevaluated it and made the neccessary changes.

carmenharris — 2025-07-06 14:46:25 UTC

I am unsure of how to get everyone on board. How do we align the mastery grading and implement it smoothly? It is not a complicated method, however, there are complications any time something new is implemented. I, myself, struggle with the constant changes in "policy" throughout the year. Sometimes it feels like everyone is on a different page and I am asking the person next to me "what did I miss?"

2025-07-07 14:04:02 UTC

While we do use zeros as place holders to inform students of missing work, leaving those zeros can damage a student's confidence and grade. This is especially true of assignments that are more busy work. When a certain number of grades is required, the teacher will fill the required number with assignments that do little to measure understanding and student mastery. These busy work assignments can tank student grades and confidence and discourage them from further effort.

2025-07-07 14:09:34 UTC

I like the concept of giving students credit for what they know and keeping a separate record of participation and behaviors. I think there is valuable knowledge for teachers, administrators, and parents from knowing what is behavior and what is academic. We might learn much of our behavior issues are linked to boredom or a complete lack of understanding. This would allow for more effective differentiation within the classroom.

2025-07-07 14:18:00 UTC

4: I have made good strides in removing punitive consequences this Spring. It has been a personal battle to reject the educational processes that have ruled much of my education and years of my career. That said, I still have a ways to go. Using other methods to measure understanding and mastery is increasing at an incredible pace with the move to online assignments and AI. Authentic measures of student learning are needed to measure mastery as students learn ways to circumvent traditional methods.

2025-07-07 14:24:12 UTC

I used to think homework was a valuable tool to help reinforce knowledge. However, with AI and electronic copy and paste, there is no way to know what is real and what is someone/something else's work. I have worked this last spring to move away from homework of any kind and keep work in the classroom. Even in the classroom, formative work needs to be hands-on, creative, and presentational. This does create a more subjective style of grading, but much more accurate in what each student has mastered.

2025-07-07 14:30:47 UTC

I am already shifting my grading style to more presentation, creative, and authentic forms of formative evaluations. It would help to reduce the required number of grades to give more opportunities for RTI and creative assignments. While no grade should count more than 10-15 % of a student's grade, sometimes requiring 2 a week can lead to grading that does not measure mastery just to get the required number. I understand teachers can break it down and measure projects in steps, but that can cause the punitive forms of grading we want to avoid and restrict a student's ability to adapt projects to their learning styles.

2025-07-07 14:37:19 UTC

Board Policy is based on an older concept of grades and grading. It assumes all students want and have time to complete assignments in class and at home. It assumes that all students will produce honest work that reflects their understanding and mastery. It also seems random at times, probably because it was written and rewritten to address specific problems of the time. If we are to embrace the concepts in the book, board policy will need a fresh start. It will require both parents, students, teachers, and administrators to adjust their understanding of how grading works and what it measures. There will be many growing pains.

2025-07-07 14:39:56 UTC

I liked the shift from final grades that truly reflect a student's mastery rather than participation. Grades should accurately reflect mastery. We have students who fail because they don't, and students who pass just because they do. Neither is a reflection of what they know and understand.

2025-07-07 14:50:16 UTC

I have taken baby steps in trying some of the concepts. There are many road blocks that make it difficult. There are many mindset shifts that must happen, and the current system does not embrace a system where students work on mastery rather than completion. When trying to get students to redo as assignment till they get to the mastery level can be difficult. They hit a level of frustration that increases in understanding don't just happen on their own, and they will have to do something to achieve mastery. As a teacher, finding ways to reteach students can be difficult when they are "too busy" to come in for tutoring. Reteaching during class time can be done, but it can take time away from the students who have already mastered, leading to boredom and behavior issues. So issuing an assignment where students worked to redo and relearn till they achieved mastery led to frustration by students and me both. After one redo, students were ready to accept a lower grade, and the people pleaser in me wanted to increase grades to boost confidence even when mastery was not achieved.

2025-07-07 14:52:07 UTC

What are some of the most functional and real-world ways to incorporate these ideas into the existing system?