Dr. Ruby Payne Addresses Poverty in Middle Level Students by Becky Miller

becky_miller — 2014-02-13 18:20:14 UTC

Becky Miller

becky_miller — 2014-02-13 18:30:02 UTC

I have learned about Karpman's triangle and I have posted a page below that has a good description of it. I will use this when dealing with parents and students. I try to always give them tools but now I can teach students about it and the importance of it.

Becky Miller

Jim Blain

2014-02-13 18:59:53 UTC

I was very interested in the section on moral development and how students this age are questioning everything. We all know that this is true, but I think we sometimes forget that the "truth" that they gain from all this questioning will form the basis for the way that they live their lives now and as they mature to adulthood. I really like the idea of using "what if" scenarios as the basis for advisory discussions. If we as teachers can plant some seeds for positive growth and development, we can help to give each and every student a "future story" as Ruby Payne describes.

I have heard

2014-02-13 19:09:28 UTC

for years that early puberty in males usually caused lower success rates later in their lives. Ms. Payne suggests all students are at risk who experience early puberty and need interventions. I am curious to learn more about this and what types of interventions have been sucessful.

David Whitmore

Pam Armstrong

2014-02-13 20:52:19 UTC

I was surprised to learn how much lower a child's IQ is if s/he lives in poverty.

Ann Marsshall

2014-02-13 20:55:16 UTC

I dreaded watching this when I saw how long it was but when I broke it into 2 parts it wasn't as bad as I feared. :-) I found some of it very interesting and thought of many 8th graders I deal with daily who I could see in many of the sections. The thing that has stuck with me the most though was a quote near the end where Dr. Payne says we are not just touching these children but children for the next 2 generations!!!! Never thought about it that way before.

Ann

2014-02-13 21:11:16 UTC

I do know how to spell my name ..... but one more thing I found to be true is that so many of our students don't have a "future story" and we need to make them try to see a future!! And I truly realized how blessed we have been in my family to have had the communications skills (good and bad at times), the "connectiveness" with our children whether they have wanted it or not and that our parents insisted on us having a "future story."

Tez Hawkins

2014-02-14 14:56:54 UTC

I wrote down a few notes that really stuck out to me. It's very important that we recognize our students being unique individuals, that they learn different ways, and come from different backgrounds. The 13 point IQ loss because of poverty was very eye opening and how children lay their head down on the desk and cover their head because they are tired. I wasn't thinking that's how they would probably sleep at home with no covers. That's their way of staying warm. As far as my reading classes go, I have never asked students to copy down a paragraph from a book. Dr. Payne said if they leave words out, ask the student if things move on the page and if they say yes...it could be their eyes. That could be one reason they are not reading well or getting all the important information from the text.

Charlotte McDonald

2014-02-14 16:37:33 UTC

I was also intrigued by the moral development section. We normally want our children to adopt our morals. But when students are raised in poverty believing there is no way out of their circumstances, and in many cases, with children having children in a drug-riddled environment, some children shouldn't endeavor to keep the "morals" they were raised with. We don't want to be trapped in the triangle, but should furnish our students with the tools they need to have a better life so their children will have better lives.

R. Mullins

2014-02-14 18:03:00 UTC

Being a support system (which makes our students stronger) and not a rescue system (which makes them weak) is often like walking a tight rope. Finding the balance between the two will allow children to work through their issues, and in turn, discover they can be resourceful individuals.

Ellen Thomas

2014-02-14 22:06:47 UTC

Ellen Thomas

2014-02-14 22:08:02 UTC

Let me try this again :) I too found the moral development section interesting. After the author pointed out some of the signs of poverty, I was better able to understand some of the behaviors I see in the classroom.

Another section I found interesting was the part on questioning and the approach to take. We often use Powerpoints with guided notes. I found it interesting that the author suggested giving them notes already filled out and ask questions about it to achieve long term retention.

Ellen TH

2014-02-16 18:30:01 UTC

Tracie

2014-02-16 20:03:31 UTC

This goes right along with the other Ruby Payne book I have read about situational poverty, generational poverty, & even generational ignorance. Astounding to learn about the triangle that I have been guilty of with students. This was right on target & incredibly helpful with what we are expected to do every day with our students.

2014-02-16 21:45:17 UTC

Elaine Holley

I found it interesting that students in poverty don't have the ability to ask questions. I often observe students who say, " I know what to do but I can't explain it." I try to teach them to think and then tell me what they are thinking. The next step is to write the "thinking".

Years ago, educators were told that not all students could transfer notes from lecture, boards, powerpts, etc. I have used the technique of handouts and highlighters, even in math! Students need good study notes and with this method, they have reliable notes to study with highlights in color!

I agree with lack of sleep promotes obesity. Protein and vitamins are extreme importance. I myself function better with lots of light.

I do not like to be in the triangle. It frustrates me and that is not a good thing. I prefer to be the support and teach students to make good choices. I am there for them when they need support! Our check and connect program gives students this connected resource. Teachers who participate get as much from the relationship as the students!

Chris

2014-02-16 21:45:20 UTC

I thought about the students I have now, and where they would fit in the moral development. How did situations effect their outcome in our classes. I try to tell my students that everything is not a concrete situation and things can change if they want change. That they can make a difference in their life's and others. ( don' t know if that makes sense....). I started thinking of my own son who will be here next year, and the changes that I can see now, and thinking of things to come. So hopefully our line of communication will stay open. This is one reason I like our advisory class is communication.

Elaine

2014-02-16 22:09:46 UTC

Wow! finally figured it out! I do not like being the only name in black. Yeah! Now to figure out what I did to change this one to red. LOL

Amanda

amanda_thomas — 2014-02-17 02:41:18 UTC

I think that the moral development section was interesting. How much peers help to influence ones moral development. The three stages of: preconventional, conventional, and post-conventional. Pre-convential is all about me. Conventional is when kids start to see right from wrong, but what will my peers think. Post Conventional is when I know what I will do regardless of what others will think right or wrong. Moral development is influenced and determined mainly by peers so the relationships students form in middle school are very crucial to their moral development.

Gary Parker

gary_parker — 2014-02-17 02:57:09 UTC

Well, I've got a double-whammy, because I've got our students at GCMS, and my own adolescent at home! (And one who's one getting there...and another one after that!) One physical characteristic that I found interesting is that lots of these kids (especially in poverty) eat too many carbs/fat and not enough protein...I think that happens even at the Parker house (or on the road).

I liked the format of the presentation, in terms of how the characteristics were identified and then how poverty affected each one. I have to admit that I'm so fortunate that I often don't "get it" when it comes to disadvantaged students. They have so many more hurdles developmentally! Especially striking was how in psychological development, some of these kids suffer from compound grief, where it's actually difficulty to bond at all...don't we all see kids like this at GCMS?

I also enjoyed the part about what to tell extremely difficult students. Something to the affect of...I can't fix your situation, but if you DON'T WANT to live this way forever, I can give you the tools you need. It's tough not to rescue them, but they have to accept some responsibility/make a choice in order to move past some of these hurdles.

Shawn

shawn_decker — 2014-02-17 03:11:00 UTC

Very interesting video. My wife attended the Framework of Poverty workshop and showed me a few extra articles and videos. It was interesting to see how people of poverty think differently about education than a middle class person. People of poverty place a lesser value on education and tend to focus more on having basic needs met. I can definitely think of students I've had in class and the situations that they had at home that would make them not too worried about school work. Thinking about this has made me a little more sympathetic to what is going on with students and ways to better help those students be successful.

Nycol Hart

2014-02-17 14:48:47 UTC

My thinking is very similar to most all that I have read. I also have adolescents at home and can see both sides of this. Sometimes I forget that my students do not have it as well at home as my own children. I do believe that this has a huge impact on not only my students behavior but their academic achievement. I have students now that do not have a lot of advantages and school work is last on the list of priorities. I have to remember to teach the entire child, not only ELA but always keep in mind what is going on at home and what I need to do to be as sympathetic as possible.

Stacy Downs

2014-02-17 16:01:04 UTC

This was a very interesting video. As a teacher, I can get caught up in the pressures and easily forget about what our students deal with at home. The video was a good reminder for me. In college I was fortunate to have a great professor who explained the issues in school systems with poverty. The information does pertain to our county dynamics and we have children that are stuck in the cycle or the triangle. Unfortunatley, education is not valued as much as it should be in our county. That is an obstacle that we have to try and overcome.

Jeremy

2014-02-17 16:19:49 UTC

One of the things that stuck out to me was students who deal with poverty are not getting their basic needs met if students are not getting their basic needs met they and not fulfilling their hierarchy of needs how can we expect students to care about what is going on in Social Studies or any other class for that matter.

Duvall

2014-02-17 16:43:58 UTC

Alot to think about for an old man.........I would amen almost every point discussed but try to remember that we have a mission...that being to equip the students in our care with the tools and desire to lift a generation. Most of us claim to be teachers because we care about young people, but I often (and we all should) ask myself "what am I doing outside the class that makes a differcnce?"

Gail

2014-02-17 16:44:03 UTC

It was very interesting to know that 13% of learning loss is related to poverty. I also know that many special education students also fall under the poverty category. Many of the points made in this video are things I see with special education students everyday. One point I disagree with is that a real man or woman is determined by having a child. I think it is more the idea of having sex. Survival trumps everything.

Vickie

2014-02-17 16:44:19 UTC

Many times we think that students with disabilities are the most disadvantaged, but after listening to the webinar it appears that students living in poverty might be our biggest concern. I was surprised to learn that many of these students come to school sleep deprived due to the poor sleeping conditions at their home. I had never considered their sleeping arrangements. I always think of food when considering our students living in poverty. One comment that really stuck with me was "Survival trumps morals almost every time." They things we think about when we consider survival are not the same as what these children think about with survival. With some of our students, survival is something they deal with on a daily basis. Most of us are just fortunate enough that we have never had to live like that. I also liked the comment about making sure every student has a future story. We need to make it very clear that we are there to help them cope and conquer.

Nell

2014-02-17 16:44:41 UTC

This was a good reminder of what our kids have to deal with on a daily basis. Survival trumps morals almost always. The importance of education is not mentioned at home by parents..it is all about survival.

Haley

2014-02-17 16:48:30 UTC

I was very alarmed by the 13 point IQ loss due to poverty. We do take for granted that students come to us with a disability and that's it. Well, we don't have any clue what sort of life they live. I know some of my students really have a hard time at home and if a child can't succeed in their home life who are we to judge what they should and shouldn't do at home. I wish we could all fix the poverty of our students. It seems it will only get worse.

Karen Van Metre

2014-02-17 16:48:44 UTC

My goodness....so much to think about when working with this age group. My own daughter will be coming to the middle school next year and I can see the changes that are occuring in her mental/physical development. It seems to me that being this age and undergoing all of the mental/phscial changes is difficult under the best circumstances. As educators, I think it is very important to remember how hard these changes are for our students. We especially need to remember that the students coming from "under-resourced" homes do need to be shown that they can gain the tools they need to better their life through education.

Laura Goff

2014-02-17 16:54:40 UTC

A child's homelife plays an instrumental role in their educational development.. Also, how important excercise is to a child's educational development. It sounds like we need to bring back PE for everystudent to participate in daily.

Chris

2014-02-17 16:56:20 UTC

I am not totally sure poverty is biggest road block. The mindset of the parents that send kids to our school is. I remember getting the Food Stamps from the Mailbox as a kid and I am not ashamed to say they fed my children too while I was attending classes. For several years that I taught here as a certified teacher my kids were on free or reduced lunch.

I feel the issue is cultural at home. Until families realize there are no opportunities to support themselves without a quality education we will struggle to teach them. Teachers are expected to deliver material, challenge, and motivate kids to seek knowledge. Our society might look to educate impoverished adults as to what will happen if generational poverty is not addressed. Promote an oral vocabulary that will increase reading scores. Use hard currency and ask the children to count money and make change. That use of money and counting will give them some number sense. That is what my poor, illiterate father did to help me at school.

My mom was one of the best ELA teachers ever so I hear. She never taught me one day in a classroom. I learned to read in the Library at H.W. Wilkey from Mrs. Gower's old car magazines. What I can do as a teacher is not give up. Find what interests some of the students and take every opportunity I can to tell every young parent how important it is to support their child's teacher.

Brittany

2014-02-17 16:58:07 UTC

Because of students physical development during middle school it makes it very difficult for them to concentrate during long periods of time. When we teach about growth and development, we have their full attention the entire time because they are learning about what they are going through!!!

Ginny

2014-02-17 17:03:18 UTC

The bottom line is that we must recognize numerous obstacles that our students face and do our best to meet kids' needs--regardless of circumstances.

Mary Jane

2014-02-17 17:03:23 UTC

Students dealing with poverty have so many obstacles to overcome besides academics. I have noticed families of students having lower IQs seem to feel they need to procreate, thus creating the cycle of poverty.

Teresa

2014-02-17 17:23:22 UTC

We must empower our kids to be all they can be and help them to see they can break the poverty cycle their family is in. I will never forget the call I received last spring from a former student who had just graduated college. He was SLD, from a very poor family and never considered himself as a candidate for college. He said at his 8th graduation I told him & his mother that he needed to go to college and that he'd do well there. We all say those same things to our students, but it really stuck with this young man. I am so proud of him!

Kim

2014-02-17 17:30:31 UTC

We all know how these obstacles interfere with success. We must try to help students deal with and overcome these challenges since we cannot change many of them. Unfortunately poverty seems to be a constant in our society.

Glenda

2014-02-17 17:33:04 UTC

Children living in poverty have so many obstacles to overcome. As educators we have been given yet another task in the form of instilling sound judgments.

Paige

2014-02-17 17:38:56 UTC

I was surprised to learn that one of the biggest risk factors is puberty and physical development behind peers. Also, the information about sleep was interesting. The physical risk factors would be higher for students in poverty.

Becki

2014-02-17 18:07:04 UTC

Reading through your reactions reminded me of a good article I read recently. It was just a good list of things we can do as educators (most of them are at no cost to us), to encourage and support our students, especially those living in poverty. So here is a link to the article - it's a quick read and I think many of you will enjoy the suggestions. http://teaching.monster.com/benefits/articles/2597-what-you-can-do-for-students-living-in-poverty

Brey

2014-02-17 18:09:25 UTC

One of the obstacles really relates to Art- I had never thought about how the visual sparity in the home could affect the students ability to be able to tell the differences between the items we see.

Tina

2014-02-17 18:11:55 UTC

I am not totally sure poverty is biggest road block.---I ditto this from Chris.

The bottom line is that we must recognize numerous obstacles that our students face and do our best to meet kids' needs--regardless of circumstances.--I ditto this from Ginny

Tarry

2014-02-17 18:17:28 UTC

As teachers we to identify the problems that are students are having and find ways for them to overcome those obstacles were they can become successful adults. We also need to remember that all of our students come from different background

LeaAnn

lea_frank — 2014-02-17 18:19:46 UTC

I had never thought about the ways that students deal with poverty -physically and mentally - and the set backs that they have to overcome. I agree with the suggestion of ways to increase their confidence and knowledge by just creating "What If" scenarios for the students to answer in a small class size such as Advisory.

Tori

tori_banks — 2014-02-17 18:31:09 UTC

I agree that poverty can definitely affect students in the classroom; however, like others have posted, I do not consider it an “end all be all” in a child’s education. I believe the best thing I can do for these children in my own classroom is treat them equally. Of course we must be aware of their needs, but just because they may come from unfortunate situations, we should not let statistics dictate their ability level.

Karen

2014-02-17 18:46:16 UTC

I think one of the most difficult challenges we face is to convince our students that if they equip themselves with a desire for education they can choose their future. It is nearly impossible to think about a distant future when they don't have their basic needs met on a daily basis.

Gwen

2014-02-17 19:23:32 UTC

After listening to this webinar, I am reminded again that our job is so much more than teaching our content! It's so easy to get wrapped up in evaluating a student purely on his or her academic ability. He or she is so much more than that and students need more than the academic content from us.

I am interested in trying out the "what if" statements in my advisory class and math classes.

Hannah

2014-02-17 19:36:44 UTC

I think this webinar provided excellent information on what our poverty students need. Many times it can be frustrating when they are "just not getting it" or when they don't turn in their homework, but we need to remember what they deal with on a daily basis. We have to remember what job they have to do when they get home, and who they have to provide for. I agree with everyone who has posted and believe that these students can rise above their environment, but we as teachers need to see their potential.

Holly

2014-02-17 19:46:04 UTC

I have never thought about how some students have difficultly developing questions. I have often wondered why students don't know what they need help on....some reply they need help on everything because they don't really know how to develop the question to focus my help.

I can work on helping students to develop their own questions.

Shane M.

2014-02-17 19:52:05 UTC

I enjoyed this webinar. It breaks my heart seeing the coats (if they even have one) that some of our kids walk in wearing. Puberty is a tough transition to go through, especially if you do not have balanced, healthy and hygienic home to go to. Being that mother or father figure is just one of the many hidden joys of being a teacher that they truly do not prepare you for in college. I am also a avid believer that physical activity increases test scores, especially to the students in high and low poverty homes.

Angie

2014-02-17 19:54:12 UTC

This webinar was a reminder of the struggles our students face on a daily basis. Our role is so much more than teaching our content. We are constantly watching our students for signs of hunger and neglect and listening to their stories. Teaching is not just relaying content, but building relationships so students feel safe at school and feel like they have a responsible adult they can come to when they are facing difficulties in their lives.

Lori

2014-02-17 20:40:11 UTC

WOW. I think the webinar was hitting home with a lot of our students in our building. One of the biggest issues is recognizing students in poverty and how to help those students. It is important to make all students feel successful and capable of accomplishing anything not matter their socioeconomic situation. Excellent information.

Crystal

2014-02-17 20:55:32 UTC

agree that adolescents tend to deal with identity development
on several levels. Students do feel overwhelmed by all the confusion and obstacles they face daily which enable them to avoid activities and different responsibilities.