Moral Judgment by James Doneski https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x Both stories involve a little moral ambiguity. Thinking of both Lord of the Flies and Fauve, what moral responsibility do the characters have for what happens? Make connections to the real world as you discuss the difference between moral and legal responsibility and all the gradations between. en-us 2020-10-15 14:11:28 UTC 2020-10-21 02:25:57 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/840884509 The boy didn't mean to kill his friend, but he did. The boy knew that that wasn't normal sand, for he had just gotten stuck in it. Still he pushed his friend into it. That can be considered murder, even if it was just an accident. Also, many sides of the story could have different views to it. For we can say that it was no ones fault, but the family of the boy who got killed might see it as murder. In every situation there is always gonna be a right or wrong and every person will see the right or wrong in different ways.]]> 2020-10-19 13:17:03 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/840884509 Even though he was the one who pushed his friend in, he didn't know the full effect the sand would have (because he only got partially stuck for a few seconds). He didn't want to actually cause harm, and probably just thought he would be able to get out just as he did. If the boy knew his friend would really get stuck he wouldn't have done it. You also have to consider their age- if it were two adults/older teens then it would be a completely different story. These boys looked young and probably had no idea what quicksand even was, and didn't understand how dangerous it could be. https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/840899434 2020-10-19 13:20:31 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/840899434 I agree if the boy had known he wouldn't of pushed his friend. But his friend shouldn't have been teasing his because that is what got him angry and led to him pushing his friend in. He also shouldn't have left his friend because as we know when he got back his friend was long gone and while he was leaving you can hear his friend yelling at him telling him not to go to stay with him but he did leave and did not listen and his friend sank. I like the idea about the age of these kids I agree with that statement. They looked only about 10 or 11 if they were older this story could have gone differently. but when you are that young nothing is serious to you everything is a game to you. I use the word game because of them keeping score of everything they are doing like a competition. this game like i said before is what caused him to push his friend. https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/840971186 2020-10-19 13:36:22 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/840971186 In Fauve, the boys were simply messing around, playing a game that ended with the boy (not Tyler) winning. In the end of the game, Tyler got stuck in the quicksand and the other boy thought it was a joke, so he didn't help him out of it, that is definitely important because it shows that the boys don't know what's wrong and what's right in this situation until it happens to them. When the second boy got caught in the quicksand, Tyler knew that he had to help him out quickly, but it didn't hit him until the boy was half way into the puddle. This proves that children this age have no moral compass, though if they did I'm sure both of the boys would be fine right now. In Lord Of The Flies, the boys also had no moral compass due to how young they were. They lost control and dove into insanity which caused deaths and in the end, the entire forest burning up. ~Kyra L. https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841478301 2020-10-19 15:25:10 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841478301 https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841522613 In both Fauve and Lord of the Flies  a boy dies by mistake. Even though these deaths were accidental, I believe the boys should own up to their mistakes. It's ethical to do so.  In both stories, the boys were making stupid decisions because they were trying to have fun or win. In both stories, people die because of other people. In Fauve, he gets pushed in and in Lord of the Flies, Simon dies because he was mistaken for the beast. But this doesn't mean that what they did was right, or even completely wrong. If something is a complete accident, can you really blame it on anyone? Yes, think about how each boy's parents might think. They would fail to see the moments mistake, the mistake a child would make due to their inability to tell the difference between right  and wrong. In some cases though, it's resonable to place the blame on someone, though sometimes it's hard to distinguish those points in time. I belive that in both stories, the boys have a moral and legal responsibility for what happened.
   ~Annika H.]]> 2020-10-19 15:35:00 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841522613 In both stories boys were acting terribly. In Fauve they could throw rocks at each other and make fun of each other. In Lord of flies boys were mostly fighting over something for example Piggy's glasses, who is going to be a leader on Island. While in Fauve there was no particular reason, yes, they were counting points but, thinking it would not be a bad resolution. There was one boy who died, but similar thing that in both LOFT and Fauve boys die from other peoples hands. In fauve he died because his friend pushed him there not wanting any hard but in Lord of the flies deaths was on purpose we can clearly see that with Siamons death. https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841538779 Anastasia]]> 2020-10-19 15:38:19 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841538779 https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841546944 I think that the boys have little moral and legal responsibility in both stories. In Fauve, the two boys were fairly young, ages 11 to 12, and what happened to the boy in the quicksand would be considered an accident. Tyler didn’t mean to push the other boy in the quicksand, so neither of them would receive legal responsibility. Also with LOTF, killing Piggy, Simon and the boy with a scarred face, was also accidental. They wouldn’t quite receive legal consequences. In Fauve,  however, Tyler did receive moral responsibility for the death of the other boy, even though you shouldn’t.  Although it was an accident, Tyler felt bad about pushing the other boy into quicksand knowing that it was dangerous. In LOTF, however it reached the point where the boys were so savage that purposely planned killing Ralph which is morally wrong. But since they were already savage, they wouldn't feel any moral consequences or responsibilities. - Yasmin Soares]]> 2020-10-19 15:40:02 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/841546944 matt dubay https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/844796467 In the movie I think the death was both of the boys part but more of Tyler's fault. The boys played many games so when they needed to be serious they were already in big trouble. I thought it was smart for Tyler to try to find those people but it was to late. I think if they were older or had adults with them they would have not got in that situation. This is kind of like the beginning of LOFT where all the boys were reckless and did what ever they wanted. In both stories the movie and LOFT they both started being more serious when someone died.]]> 2020-10-20 13:44:27 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/844796467 Brody Curtis 994823282 https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/844797632  I think people are judging this by what the court would say, and not by a morality standpoint. The boy in Fauve does need to take moral responsibility for what happened, and in the end, we see him trying to. Both boys were fooling around and it was their game to keep one up-ing each other that caused this death. In law, yes, the responsibility would be onto Tyler, but I believe this morally wouldn't entirely be his fault because of their naivety while playing the game. So while it is mostly Tyler's fault for going too far, it is also partially onto the other boy for also playing the game. In LOFT this applies when Ralph was blaming himself for the death of Simon, even though it morally wouldn't be his fault.]]> 2020-10-20 13:44:41 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/844797632 Really its both of their faults that this happened, even if its mostly Tyler's fault. Throughout the entire film they have been trying to one up each other by creating a little game out of it, and at this point in the film the kid in the orange shirt is winning this competition, by egging him on and gloating about his lead he felt he needed to one up him fast. Where the blame lies on him is that Tyler already knew that this sand was quicksand, even if was only on the edge of the quicksand he should have thought it through and concluded that the effect of quicksand could be more dangerous in other areas. Its really just a bad judgement call when he was only thinking of one up-ing his friend. At the same time however, The other kid pushed him in the sand as well getting him stuck. So really if he didn't do that in the first place then he wouldn't have felt the need to get revenge. It's more of a grey area in terms of who is responsible. I still think that Tyler is more guilty than the other kid, especially if the parents were to press legal charges (although their parents are obviously not with them in the movie). This same situation happens in Lord of the Flies when Simon was killed by the boys. At one end you can see that they are responsible because this idea of a beast was created by them, if they hadn't freaked themselves out like this they wouldn't have assumed the figure was a beast. At the same time you could see innocence as they are just boys who are scared of what the island might hold, and it is understandable that they might have irrational fears. In both cases they are guilty of their crimes no doubt. However you do have to understand the circumstances they were in for both of them. These experiences should and will be lessons for them in the future. 994822349 https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845285093 2020-10-20 15:22:54 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845285093 https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845315531 Tyler wasn’t really thinking when he pushed his friend into the quicksand because they were just playing a game. Tyler didn’t realize his mistake until it was too late and by then there was no way to save his friend. When he gets back from the quarry looking for help and sees that his friend died, he is filled with sadness and anger and he knows that he caused his friends death and basically murdered him. You can tell that he is really hurt and remorseful for his friend’s death and he will always feel guilty because of this.]]> 2020-10-20 15:29:01 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845315531 Shiane Dagesse https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845347644 Morals are not really thought about when the two boys in this story are not watched by others. Tyler thinks that it is okay to push the other boy in the quicksand even though he most likely knew that he would get stuck in it. Both boys seem to be playing a game where they try to one-up each other and this turns out to be more important to them than the safety of the two boys. Even if it was not intentional for the boy to get completely stuck in the sand, it still had happened. Tyler felt more pride in getting an extra point than keeping himself and his friend safe. He came to regret this afterwards when he was unable to save the boy. In both this story and in LOTF the boys show that they have little morals when not having to abide by legal responsibilities . In this story Tyler shows that he was initially completely fine with pushing his friend into the quicksand and putting him in danger which is similar to LOTF where some of the boys were fine with the death of their peers (Piggy and Simon). Although some of them showed regret and sadness with them dying, putting their friends and essentially killing them show that their morals are not thought about very often.]]> 2020-10-20 15:35:14 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845347644 Moral Responsibility https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845435966 The boy obviously feels morally responsible for his friends death. He feels horrible for throwing his friend in the liquid and he most definitely wouldn’t have done it if he knew that his friend would die from it. Even though they were just playing, Tyler was so traumatized by his friends death that he didn’t want to say anything to the lady who picked him up.]]> 2020-10-20 15:53:08 UTC https://padlet.com/doneskij/5zwpp49dml00cc5x/wish/845435966