How We Got Grading Wrong by Jeanette Baker https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os 3 Things That You Found Out 2 Things You You Found Interesting 1 Question That you Still Have en-us 2016-10-26 18:59:43 UTC 2025-12-14 11:16:15 UTC hello@padlet.com 3 Things I found out: matt_cochran https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/133578875    1) Start small when beginning to retest. Maybe only retest once, then move to more retests from there.
   2) Grading homework rewards students who learn the first time, and penalizes students who don't.
   3) Not grading homework frees a teacher up to focus on feedback to the students.

2 Things I found Interesting
   1) I find it interesting the article says that "there are all sorts of professions where you have opportunities to receive feedback without being penalized". There are also a lot of jobs where this isn't the case. Try being a pilot and making a mistake in midair. There aren't many do-overs for that!
   2) The article says "when you have retests you'll be surprised who shows up". I don't really find that to be the case. Kids who have intrinsic motivation will show up. Kids that don't, won't show up unless something is held over their head.

1 Question I Still Have
1) I have two kids going to college who are very good students - both valedictorians. From their perspective, all the retesting that we do does not prepare kids for the real world. I tend to agree. The article uses sports practice to prove his point. It says that a team doesn't get penalized on Friday for a bad week of practice. I disagree. If a player practices badly, he'll get replaced. If a team practices badly, they get beat on Friday. We don't get to go replay the game because we sucked. The author has some good points, but I don't agree with a lot of what he says.]]> 2016-10-27 11:57:05 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/133578875 https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/133759716 3 Things I Found Out:
1.  Less Grading is better.
2. The helpful online tools for doing SBG.
3. Grading, according to the author, should eliminate non-academic criteria. 

2 Interesting Things
1. The Three Questions: "Where am I? Where are we going? What do I need to do to close the gap?"
2. "When we grade homework, we're rewarding students who learn the first time."

Rather than one question, I'm putting the multiple thoughts I had while reading the articles

  1. “Penalties for late work, zeros, and points off for appearance can trade measures of learning for measures of compliance.” 
Seems like a false equivalence between missing deadlines and aesthetic qualities.  Also, why is an expectation of form & neatness a bad thing?  Aren’t we as teachers held to a certain standard of form, neatness, and appearance in order to maintain some notion of professionalism?  Shouldn’t we be looking to impart some of that to students?

  1. “If you have a bad week practicing, you don’t show up Friday night with minus five on the scoreboard.”
No, but you are inherently less prepared than the team who put in the extra work and effort both in and out of practice to ensure that their practices were good; thereby making your team much less likely to win in the competition.  There needs to be something to stress a certain sense of urgency in individual practice, because if all students choose to learn at their own pace, won’t some students get left behind when it becomes a necessity to move on in the lesson? 

  1. “Kids find intrinsic motivation because they are able to take risks, self-assess, adjust, practice, and find what works best for them, to learn something”
Is there a credible study to back this or is this just anecdotal?  If we’re being anecdotal, then I’ve seen less effort from kids on this individual practice because it doesn’t affect anything.  The only thing they care about is finishing the assignment so as not to have lunch detention, the quality of the work or the thought put into the work seems not to matter.

  1. “Vatterott adds that schools giving feedback for homework instead of points have seen a decrease in cheating because ‘there’s no point to it.’  It’s not going to help you pass the test.” 
Do students care about passing the test though when they’re allowed to retake it as many times as they want?

  1. When you offer retests, you might be surprised who shows up… I saw incredible things from these kids, and it came from them, finally, having some power over their education.”
Did these students not have power over their education before?  Have students been completely helpless until standards-based grading rolled around?  I’m not quite sure what the author means here.

  1. “It’s more important what you learn, rather than when you learn it.”
So do deadlines just become irrelevant?  How is this going to work in the real world when they’re not given free reign to learn at their own pace, when they’re expected to master content or skills within a set time frame in higher education or their chosen profession?




]]> 2016-10-27 19:50:31 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/133759716 https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/133928316 3 Things I Found Out:
"We tend to reward working instead of learning"

Three questions students need to be able to answer:
"Where are we going?"
"Where am I?"
"What do I need to do to close the gap?"

"We grade kids while they're learning, and that penalizes kids for taking risks. It's demotivating and institutionalizes failure."

2 Things I Found Interesting:
"It's important what you learn than when you learn it."

"Because reassessing requires extra work from the teacher, students should have steps to earn reassessment-for example..."

1 Question:
What is the real focus? 


Every time we are evaluated and asked what we are doing we get told that we need to work harder to pass the learning to the student. Making the student work for their knowledge and understanding and be more of a guide. When I read this article and I am asked to think about SBG it makes me think of a teacher who is working hard to get students to understand the content by teaching, reteaching, analyzing homework to give feedback that accounts for nothing, but a marker for the student. Creating test after test, assessment after assessment till a student understands. Taking all the responsibility and consequence from the student putting it on the teacher. Hoping that we have students that have that inner drive to learn something and want to understanding. Essentially taking everything off of the student and placing it on the teacher.

Then the students leaves our walls where they are nurtured and protected and sent out into the world. Where they may have learned something, but do not have that sense of responsibility or accountability for ones self and actions. We totally remove the fact that when you make a mistake there are consequences. Students need to have timetables and deadlines. I understand that some students may learn something faster than others which is okay. Some kids though need those deadlines and structure. 

Why do we not get time to learn and get better? 10-15 minute observation and then we get a score. That penalizes us for taking risk and trying something new and that happens to be the day that we are observed. This risk happens to fail and now we are PENALIZED. I get the point of what they are saying about grading and its not perfect, but time and time again students take advantage of the system and are not trying to really learn they are just trying to get by in the easiest way possible.]]> 2016-10-28 15:40:54 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/133928316 3 Things I Found Out: https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/134360917 1.  Grading work rather than learning defeats the purpose.

2.  www.sbgvideos.org is a resource for teacher made videos explaining SBG implementation.

3.  Not grading homework frees us up to focus on giving feedback. 

2 Interesting Things:

1.  This quote:  "In the past, time was fixed and achievement varied.  Now we're saying, we want achievement to be fixed but time to demonstrate mastery will vary."

2.  This quote:  "If you have a bad week of practicing, you don't show up Friday night with minus five on the scoreboard."


1 Question:

 This article doesn't really address the 4, 3, 2, 1 grading practice.  The last few years I did a version of SBG without using the 4, 3, 2, 1.  My tests were still divided up by standards, but they were given a percentage rather than a 1-4 grade and I gave students opportunities for retests.  It seems that I still found many of these advantages to be true while using the percent grading.  While I was initially a bit excited about the 1-4 grading, I'm not finding further advantages to using it that I hadn't already seen with my previous grading system.  I'm finding the 1-4 grading to be much more difficult in practice than it was in theory, so my question is, is there another way of grading assessments besides percentages and 1-4?  Maybe some kind of hybrid or reimagining?  I'm not feeling confident at all in my grades. Also, does it seem that schools who had been using the SBG 1-4 system are moving away from it? If so, have we had conversations with them to find out what they found the problems to be and what they tried before bailing? I hate to see us put a bunch of work and frustration into something that is not proving to have lasting power. Do we know of school's where it's working well?]]> 2016-10-31 22:06:45 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/134360917 https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/135107445 3 Things I Found Out:
1. We need to grade less so we can learn more!
2. Being informative is better than being judgmental.
3. We can focus on full time for feedback vs time spent on grading.

2 Interesting Things:
1. By changing the motivation to getting better/improving in most important, struggling learners strive to improve more, and try harder to achieve.
2. Achieving the target and improving is more important than getting the highest grade possible.

1 Question:
All of this may 'hypothetically' increase motivation to learn but where is the notion of no "do-overs" in adult life, and the professional job world? Yes, I agree that SBG in the classroom is beneficial, I use it every single day but are we coddling our students? Risks are a great thing! I take them daily! We encourage our students to take them, and we assess them upon this, not "grade", however as teachers, we are observed, we take a risk, and are "graded" for taking the risk. I feel a double standard is in this thought process. I love focusing on standards, and focusing to achieve the standard, just working towards improvement vs getting 'the grade'. I feel like there is a definite double standard in what we are striving to get for our students and for how our teachers are 'assessed'.

]]> 2016-11-03 14:58:26 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/135107445 3 Things I Found Out https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/135253386 1. To give feedback for homework instead of taking a grade.
2. Allow students to rate their knowledge of a standard after a quiz, for qualitative feedback.
3. Everything in the classroom should be formative minded.

2 Interesting Things:
1. When grades reflect everything, i.e., participation, homework,  they mean nothing. 
2.  Penalties for late work, or neatness,  can trade measures of learning for measures of compliance. 

1 Question:
If our goal is to prepare students for college and career readiness, how are we going to achieve this if we do as the article suggests and don't give penalties for late work, participation, neatness, or give out homework? Feedback has a powerful place; however, not with everything. Additionally, if they are allowed to do test corrections, and reassess to show mastery of the standard doesn't the accountability shift from the student to the educator?


]]> 2016-11-03 22:17:20 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/135253386 https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/135889620 3 Things I Found Out:
1.  "Keep rubrics true to intended learning objectives and make grades meaningful again: providing clear learning targets, eliminating punitive grading practices, grading less and assessing better."
2. The three questions dealing with coursework that students should be able to answer: a.) where are we going?; b.) where am I?; c.) what do I need to do to close the gap?
3. Changing the conversation from "what do I need to do to go from a B to an A" to "I still don't understand this; can you help me with it?"

2 Interesting Things:
1. I like how it addresses current grading practices as a "one shot" proposition, and how that doesn't help our students' learning.
2.  I also liked the focus earlier in the article on rubrics, and how we tend to grade on things that aren't academically-focused: "We tend to reward working instead of learning." 

1 Question:
My question piggy backs off of others on here in that how do we achieve accountability without some focus on homework and by allowing mutliple retakes?]]> 2016-11-07 18:33:14 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/135889620 3 Things I Found Out stacey_evans1 https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136093077 1. Focus on more feedback, less grading.
2- Grade less, learn more.
3- Allow students to take ownership for their work by actually reflecting on the content of their own work.
2 Interesting Things:
1. ...three questions students need to be able to answer:
"Where are we going?"
"Where am I?"
"What do I need to do to close the gap?"
2. From the warm-up at the beginning of class to final grades, everything in Townsley's classroom became formative-minded, or about finding out "how well do my students know this? How might I change my instruction to improve that?"  This has helped in my transition to SBG this year.
1 Question:
I agree with someone else who posted on this padlet, the article does not address the grading practice. I would like more information on the benefit of the 4, 3, 2, 1 rather than percentage. I do agree with breaking the test questions down and giving students many opportunities to show they know the material. Is there really a benefit to 4,3, 2, 1 vs other testing options. ]]> 2016-11-08 14:19:02 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136093077 3 Things I Found out https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136718182 1. When Re-assessing, start small and only offer the re-test one time.
2. Make re-tests something students have to work for by doing things like re-working homework or going to tutoring rather than just allowing them to re-test because they want to.
3. Taking less grades and offering feedback on homework rather than just putting down a score.

2 Interesting Things:

1. I found it interesting the author compared this to a sporting event. He mentions if you are  having a bad week of practice you don't show up Friday with negative five points on the board. I think he is a little off base here because your practice will reflect in how your team performs just like it would on an assessment, except you aren't able to re-play your sporting event. You have to be ready the first and only time you are there.
2. I also found in interesting he kept referencing how willing students would be to strive for their own learning and want to re-assess. I find this very interesting because of the students that I have seen that choose to re-test. It is always, in my opinion, the students who have already mastered a target but would like to try and reach a higher "grade" rather than those students who really need to come re-test. They seem to be content with getting whatever they get on the test.

1 Question I still have:

I have been wondering how effective this will be in the long run. Are we going to prepare our students effectively to be successful in a job where they have to get things right the first time? Or in college where they only get one chance to study for a test and pass it? I know there are special circumstances but I think it would be interesting to see how real-world ready this makes students or if they feel too "comforted" by being able to try, try and try again until they are successful. I really think further data from schools who have tried this method and have had students enter college and the work world would be beneficial for us to learn about SBG.]]> 2016-11-10 13:57:49 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136718182 3 Things I Found Out:  https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136790341 1. Focus more on feedback instead of grading.
2. Grading homework only rewards students that learn the first time.
3. Start small when re-assessing and only allow re-test one time.

2 Interesting Things: 
1. I like that students should have steps to EARN reassessment- for example, redoing homework, attending tutoring, completing online modules, or creating their own lesson on the topic to be reassessed. I feel that students take serious advantage of re-tests and often times don't put in the work the first time and should have to work to earn the right to re-test. 
2. Teachers often grade on things that aren't academically focused. 
"We tend to reward working instead of learning." As I read the article and this part specifically, I reflected on some of my own assignments and realize that I have done this myself.  

1 Question: 
How does this prepare students for the "real world"? I understand and agree with parts of the article and SBG, but I don't agree with re-testing several times and don't see how it prepares kids for college where they won't get to re-test if they are not prepared. It seems that students only want to re-test when they are motivated by an outside force. Most of my students that try hard and study don't need to re-test.

]]> 2016-11-10 16:31:24 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136790341 3 Things I Found Out:  https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136824230 1. Taking a grade is not as important as providing feedback for our students
2. Have students reflect on their own knowledge.
3. Retest one time.

2 Interesting Things:
1. "Where are we going?" "Where am I?" "What do I need to do to close the gap?" I found these questions very interesting, this allows students  to be able to struggle through a concept on their own and figure out exactly what it is that they need to fix/learn to master the concept.
2. I found that it was interesting how the author stated that achieving the target and improving is more important than getting the highest grade possible.

1 Question:

This article states several times that we should focus of retesting to allow students an opportunity to improve. I understand this, however; by allowing a student to continuously retest throughout their educational career seems to be an issue. When in life are they going to be allowed to "try again." I have several students that have made comments such as "I forgot to study, that's okay I can still retest." My question is, how are we really preparing these students for life outside of school by allowing them to retest? ]]> 2016-11-10 17:53:54 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136824230 3 New Ideas https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136903229 1. "Old School" says Fixed Time and Varied Achievement. "New School" says Fixed Achievement and Varied time. 
2. Homework should be formative, helping to work toward an objective. Consider it practice instead of counting it for a grade. Sports don't have punitive measures for poor performance in practice, learning shouldn't either.
3. Grade less work, provide more feedback to help kids reach goals.

2 Interesting ideas

1. What is important is what you learn and not when you learn it.
2. Shifting the focus from "why am I failing?" and "what can I do to bring my grade up?" to "can you help me with this concept? I'm still having trouble."

1 Question:

I still feel that many of these important concepts can be achieved in a different way. I feel that the retest policy is not doing our students any favors. They need to ask for help before an assessment to do well the first time. I appreciate the concept of allowing more time for students to reach a goal. Some get there quickly and others need more time. We need to do this and "reward" or recognize hard work and tenacity at the same time.

I also question the idea behind expecting a grade every week and wanting us to work toward SBG. There are times when I know the kids are not ready for an assessment based on the questions they are asking/not asking and the work they are doing.]]> 2016-11-10 21:58:11 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136903229 Three things I found out: christen_bernard https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136926736 1.  We tend to reward working, instead of learning. 
2.  We grade students on following directions, as much as assessing them on the actual learning targets. Keeping rubrics true to intended learning objectives would make grades more meaningful. 
3. The article states that by not grading as much, the teacher frees up more time to focus on feedback to the student, instead of factoring grades. This I find encouraging. 

Things I found interesting:
1. The idea of taking students to the 'I don't understand a particular skill' level of awareness, from the 'what do I need to do to go from a B to an A' is inspiring. Fostering student independence is an area where I feel I still work. As a teacher, I often feel like I need to closely guide students toward producing hard evidence of skill mastery to enable success.  

2. It breaks my heart to realize I grade my students while they are still learning, thus penalize them for taking risks. I understand how this discourages them from taking risks and institutionalizes their feelings of failure.  However, I was told to get at least one grade for reading and writing per week. Each week this is my goal and to be honest, I find it especially troubling to do this with athletes who face further consequences when it comes to their grades. At times I appreciate the practice of holding athletes accountable, but the humiliation they must feel is saddening. To put SBG into practice would mean that I would have to change some things, and honestly, I don't know where I would start while still obeying the expectations already placed on me to plan engaging lessons, write curriculum, and encourage students to take risks in a safe environment.

Question:  
For many reasons, students are grade driven. How do I put SBG procedures into practice and still meet the expectation of at least one grade a week per class? Providing students with meaningful feedback on their writing is something I do. However, I feel the constant pressure to get grades into the system. Allowing students the opportunity to learn from their writing through specific feedback, in addition to permitting them the time to make corrections, makes me feel like I am not in compliance with school expectations.

]]> 2016-11-11 03:14:23 UTC https://padlet.com/jeanette_baker1/560cnu7wu6os/wish/136926736