I completely agree that grades make people hyperfocus on grades over the materials at hand.

As I teach a trade specifically, the focus should be on retaining material, critical thinking, and incorporating the lessons taught rather than a grade number.

I constantly have students asking if this will be on the test when I’m just trying to get them thinking like a seasoned mechanic. If their thought process is correct, I don’t care about grades as they WILL get to the point. I tell them to be confident. You can be wrong, but be confidently wrong, in the sense that they use solid reasoning to get to their conclusion. If you can explain how you got to your answer, it is far more important than getting the right answer. We can then guide their thinking process properly if we approach it in that direction. Whereas if we just test them, it’s more relying on them memorizing facts than absorbing the lessons.

We are trying to ensure we have prepared mechanics entering the field more than being able to just pass a test.

Instructors should not show high importance to grading because that will derail students to only hunting for an A-grade than the learning of the course outcome. I always try to emphasize to my students that they should not look at the grades but because the grading system has been installed for them to pass the course, this is practically impossible to make them forget the ship that is meant to take them to pass the class. In summary, I would say that the grading should remain but be used as a gauge but not a passing tool or ship.

Regardless, I have thought about this before and how I can support and motivate my students to learn. After listening to Mr. Kohn, I need to learn about not grading and how I could put this into practice.

In professional environments, employees are frequently evaluated based on their performance. These evaluations often determine promotions, salary increases, bonuses, and even continued employment. By eliminating grades, we would not be preparing students for the reality that their work will be assessed against company goals and management expectations.

I believe grades can help students develop goal-setting skills and accountability. In this way, different types of assessment and grading give students enough practice and experience to be ready for the workplace, helping them understand how their performance will be measured.

While I appreciate the perspective that students will do only what is necessary to achieve the goal of the ‘almighty A’ and leave course work that is not necessary to fulfill this goal, I don’t agree that grades should not exist.

I think that the focus of grades can be lessened by the instructor by doing more formative assessments and providing more feedback to students. Leaving the ‘you will be tested on this’ statements out of the teaching would also remove some of the focus on the end grade.

I think that grades are still a strong indicator of understanding. If grades did not exist and students were not motivated to learn and get high grades then the success of any class would be entirely dependant on the teachers ability to engage and teach each individual effectively. Grades are a good way to gauge where extra attention and study may be required to be successful in a field of study.

I think moving away from grades but retaining learning outcomes could be a happy medium between being too focused on numerical grades and not measuring anything at all (eg. if the learning outcome is to make cookies, we consider it met if there are cookies at the end of the course, not getting marks for how well they memorized the list of ingredients, which also ties into UDL principles, which I believe we're covering soon).

Even though the research may abstractly support Kohn’s argument at a high level in academic settings, there is risk of misinterpretation of the data from an application perspective. Also, one can appreciate Kohn’s argument in spirit from a personal perspective. It makes sense that numerical grading is not effective or useful during self-assessment, as an individual rates and motivate themselves through inner heuristics and personal goal setting

However, Kohn’s argument is not effective in preparing learners for organizations and/or group or group work. The reality is that constant grading structures are utilized in the organizational workforce. This demonstrated through benchmarks, milestone deadlines, and quality assessment. In other words, stakeholders are constantly assessing each other’s performance through quantitative and qualitative grading matrices. Given this reality, educators would be creating a grave injustice for learners, as it would inadequately prepare them for the harsh expectations of the organizational structures.

Another rationale to disagree, is that learners receive a net benefit from receiving grades. While one can appreciate Kohn’s point of the negative aspects, learners experience from grade structures (anxiety and, mixed or toxic motivational signals), this cost is outstripped by the benefits of assisting learners in gauging their work and comprehension quality. Most students find grades useful as a guide to their performance and therefore adjust their behaviour accordingly.

AI generated TL;DR:

Less grading boosts intrinsic motivation and makes assessments more meaningful. Some extrinsic motivators (deadlines, feedback) are still needed. Self-assigned grades can work if consistently reinforced, but many students resist because it conflicts with traditional systems.

In a post-secondary institution, students have paid to be in attendance. This I would wager is not out of their desire to learn, at least not explicitly. It’s due to a need, whether that be an advancement in their career, or their desire to do a job that requires schooling.

While I do believe that students should have an interest in the topics they learn about, and that teachers and instructors should do what they can to engage students, not all topics are titillating. The students in my classroom may have little to no interest in atomic structure because it is not a tangible facet of their jobs. However, the province had mandated me to teach these students this material and so I will do so, so that they can pass my course and return to their true passion. Should they fail because they have no interest in that one topic?

Furthermore; if the grade is to be abolished what is the replacement? Excitement for the content, engagement, attitude or understanding? Do all these replacements not fall directly into a scale or range? Understands or doesn’t understand, is engaged, is not engaged.. at that point this is an implied grade and quite frankly does not differ from a letter or percentage.  

To conclude, whether grades should or not exist depends, in my view, mainly on the subject. Assessment and grading have a significant psychological impact on most learners, and they need to be addressed continuously by instructors since it is necessary to try maintaining the learner's stress levels as low as possible. No doubt, student stress in relation to grading would be reduced if the traditional grading practices do not exist, but the importance of certifying that the course learning objectives are met by the learners must not be neglected by instructors too regardless of whether he / she uses the traditional grading approaches or not.

For example, students need to achieve at least 70% in each Skill Using and Assessment (SU & A) Task across all language skills to reach a certain level of the Canadian Language Benchmark (CLB). The rubric and percentages we use in those language artifacts help guide our decisions about whether students have achieved a certain benchmark in each language skill. Instructors can include anecdotal evidence or teachers’ observations in the students’ portfolio, but the biggest element of benchmark measurement still relies on their achievement in those SU and A tasks.   

Let’s take a look at another field like carpentry for instance. It relies heavily on manual skills like cutting, shaping, assembling, and finishing wood, which means the hands-on or practical aspect dominates in this field. Having said that, I believe students still need to learn some theories like understanding the different types of wood and their properties, measurements and geometry, safety regulations, etc. to become skillful carpenters. The question is, how do we measure students who have mastered those theories? I guess it would probably be a combination of theory exams and practical application. Therefore, in my view, it’s nice to think that we don’t need grades, but in reality, we probably cannot totally get rid of them.

My approach has always been motivating students through interesting, thoughtful and engaging lectures / demonstrations, followed by authentic real-world assessments which assess their actual ability to perform the skills as they would in the workplace. The grade remains as a confirmation of their skills, abilities and intelligence on the topic and not the reason for the work they do.

I worry that some of his arguments may unintentionally make students less resilient. I also question whether eliminating grades truly allows students to reach their full potential.

As I listened, I found myself wondering whether removing grades could lead to excessive handholding in the classroom. If grades provide meaningful feedback on how well students demonstrate their skills, why are we hesitant to use them? Is the concern that grades might hurt students’ feelings?

In my view, eliminating grades does not adequately prepare students for real-world expectations. In the workplace, individuals are routinely evaluated and rated based on their performance, and students should be prepared for this reality.

He talks about how grades can push students to only do the work required to get an “A+.” They aren’t necessarily learning, they’re just doing what’s expected to hit that grade, and that really resonated with me. If I’m being honest, I approach my assignments by looking at the rubric and making sure I check off everything in the A+ section. I have my own thoughts and opinions, but I still shape my work around what will earn the highest grade.

So yes, I think Kohn has a valid argument, but he comes across as angry when he speaks. Maybe people have challenged him so much that he feels defensive, or maybe I’m just interpreting it that way. Either way, it’s clear he genuinely believes in what he’s saying, and I understand where he’s coming from.

There have definitely been times when I’ve been stressed about grades. I’ve worried about failing a course because of one low mark. Sometimes life gets in the way and I can’t fully contribute to an assignment, or sometimes I completely misunderstand what the assignment is asking and only realize it after seeing how my peers approached it. I’m also someone who worries a lot, and I don’t consider myself a very strong learner. I need more time and clearer instructions. I’m here to learn, but I often spend so much time stressing about grades and marks that I don’t feel like I’m fully absorbing what I’m supposed to be learning. When I think about it that way, I can see why Alfie feels the way he does.

At the same time, I also see another perspective. Some people really value feedback on their work. Doing an assignment and receiving no grade or feedback can feel frustrating and pointless. It leaves you wondering what you did right, what you did wrong, or how you could improve next time.

Overall, I think teachers should have the freedom to do what works best for them and their students. Most institutions still require grades to be entered, and that probably isn’t going away, but it’s still a really interesting perspective to think about.

Grades can definitely cause stress and anxiety, but I think a little pressure can be motivating—especially when paired with constructive feedback. Without feedback, a grade alone isn’t very meaningful.

I don’t fully agree with Kohn. He assumes students aren’t genuinely interested in learning and that grades are purely coercive. He also suggests that students will always take the easiest route to earn higher grades. I think these ideas are more relevant to traditional pedagogy and don’t necessarily fit adult learners.

I also found an interesting article that challenges Kohn’s ideas. It argues that non-contingent consequences can lead to incompetence, which I tend to agree with. I’ve attached the link for anyone interested in exploring a different perspective.

I do believe that grades, as they exist in our schools and colleges today, often kill the natural curiosity that most human beings are born with, and I find this very sad.

Schools and colleges in our country are run too much like businesses, and I think how we view grades really reflects this.

Most of my classes have a class size of 35 students. This number isn't based on a class size that is most effective for learning my trade, but rather the student/instructor ratio that will make the college the most money. At my current class sizes, I can't even begin to imagine how I would eliminate grades.

In my ideal world, class sizes would be smaller, so that I could more effectively build rapport with each of my students in the rather short time we have together, and help foster that natural curiosity. But in the world as it currently exists, I struggle to imagine college without grades.

I fully agree with this video as this is what I have done my whole career, maybe not when I was in high school but for sure when I went back to school. I aimed only to get 64.5% total as they had to round up to 65, so I would pass the class. So my assignments I would only do as much as I needed in order to pass with the minimal.

There is way too much put onto students, and they are doing sketchy things to pass, but they have to jump through so many hoops.

If we could go to this way of education, where we are just saying you have to do the assignments but show me your learning through it and not to put a number on it. As I do believe that there are many of students who are just doing the thing in order to do the easiest grade they can so they can get going. I agree not many take these opportunities to challenge themselves, they are doing the easiest way they can.

I really like this video, and I am much aligned with this gentleman's point of view, it is also what I try to teach in my own classroom. I find that formal testing and the like really brings out a lot of anxiety and it doesn't help show their full knowledge on the topic. I have found it is very helpful, so if I find that they can show me that they know the stuff then I will assign a certain number for them.

That being said, I don’t think grades are completely useless. They can provide a quick snapshot of how a student is doing. Is can show you trends and give you information about the larger group. The issue, to Kohn and to myself, is when grades become the main reason students engage in learning.

I want my students to be motivated by interest and relevance. Learning is deeper and more meaningful, especially in the field of Early Childhood Education. I want to see my students be able to problem solve, understand child development, know how to appropriately guide behaviour, and understand underlying principles that are the foundation of Early Childhood Education.