Criterion E - HL by Hamed Mokhtar https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp Criterion E - HL en-us 2016-11-09 19:30:06 UTC 2021-03-27 08:18:25 UTC hello@padlet.com Martin martin_mcmulkin https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139516808 Major difference is 'rigour' and 'sophistication' and 'precise'. Rigour here seems to overlap with coherence (Crit A) and language (crit B). Sophistication could again be very subjective, who decides what is more sophisticated? For a 4 it says 'reflect the sophistication expected' but it is unclear what is expected!]]> 2016-11-23 07:21:39 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139516808 Esma I agree with Martin that the difference between the point 5 and 6 is not clear. Most times, I stuck in directing students with these two points. I also have misconceptions about "correct" and precise". Not clear to me.. esma1284 https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139664133 2016-11-23 21:17:17 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139664133 Hamed hamed_mokhtar https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139700779 Maybe a useful way to judge the sophistication is:
If the mathematics is in the core of SL and HL then it is commensurate but not sophisticated (but take care that sometimes something in the core can be used in a sophisticated manner, so maybe this is why Martin feels it can be subjective. And it is true that each chooses his/her own professional judgement on this) 

Rigorousness on the other hand can be more subjective. I think it is like we need to see "coherent" lines of mathematics that include sophisticated mathematics and linked from one step to another in a logical manner
 
Maybe for the difference between "correct" and "precise" it is easier to judge. Correct may include mistakes that do not reflect lack of understanding while precise is nearly error free.

It is interesting if we continue posting here how we judge or what we expect to see in order to judge sophisticated and rigor]]> 2016-11-24 07:24:25 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139700779 Troy troy_droubay https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139943997 I have trouble distinguishing between a 5 and 6 as well. It appears to me that students are expected to study mathematics that is outside the core material. What level of sophistication are they looking for from a 16 year old? I teach 3 different IB courses and I feel the level of rigor required in mathematics is far greater than that required in other courses.]]> 2016-11-25 22:55:57 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139943997 Quinn quinn_velasco https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139970519 I think IB should give list or further guidelines on what they meant on "challenging mathematics" so that grading is more objective.]]> 2016-11-26 14:41:46 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139970519 Quinn quinn_velasco https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139970969 Hi Hamed, 
Is the subjectivity of these strands the reason why some scores are reduced when the paper is moderated? ]]> 2016-11-26 14:52:20 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139970969 Sophistication? Rigour? katrijn_ganne https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139997747 According to the HL Guide :
Sophistication in mathematics may include understanding & use of challenging math concepts, looking at a problem from different perspectives and seeing underlying structures to link different areas of mathematics.

I would expect from an HL student to pick an IA topic that is commensurate with the level of the course but you add that little extra touch. I don't want them to go above and beyond to find something extremely difficult. They need to be able to tackle a problem in a creative way, showing off their Mathematical abilities without being 'too difficult'. Sophistication doesn't mean you need to use fancy terminology, you need to be able to explain your work in your own words.

I would rather see an in depth study of a topic in the syllabus than a superficial look at a difficult theory that has been proven by a Famous mathematician.

▪ Rigour involves clarity of logic and language when making mathematical arguments and calculations.

Students need to show their ability of 'simplifying' their work, step by step. I strongly feel that in order to fully understand the Mathematical concepts you need to be able to explain it in a 'simple' manner. I would expect to see  an explanation on 'Why' a certain calculation is done, 'How' they have done it and 'What' they can now conclude. This all needs to be done in their 'own' language, without using terminology they themselves don't understand. 

Very informative! Thx a lot (HM)
]]> 2016-11-27 03:40:22 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139997747 @Troy katrijn_ganne https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139998073 The difference between Correct and Precise is indeed very confusing!!

So if I understand Hamed correctly, students can make mistakes and still be 'correct' as longs as it doesn't affect their understanding? 

Precise basically means there are no mistakes at all ?]]> 2016-11-27 03:59:02 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/139998073 Urszula urszula_bednarska_l2 https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/140024477 You whould not look for a very difficult topic. It is enough to stick to the syllabus. You have to remember that understanding is much more important.
Sophistication, rigour, accuracy and precision - are essential whatever you do in Maths. You cannot claim to be a good (HL) Mathematic students if you do not have these features. You have to be able to present ALL your ideas clearly, which means you have to understand them. If I am not convinced that I understand a topic I cannot teach this topic. The same is with the Exploration. 
The main difference is that I expect my HL students to be more sophisticated in their research, I expect understanding, precision, rigour and accuracy from both levels.]]> 2016-11-27 15:20:24 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/140024477 George https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/140028002
I have not taught the HL course, so I find these posts interesting and helpful as I complete this online course.]]> 2016-11-27 16:12:25 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/140028002 Wael - https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/140685906 out of experience- the IA's that are linked to science subjects and included modelling of real life situations have high probability of achieving high grades in this criteria]]> 2016-11-29 23:03:20 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/140685906 Adam https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/141600032 I think "correct" may also imply that processes etc. were carried out to arrive at the correct result while not necessarily showing awareness of boundary conditions, unstated assumptions, etc. e.g. a student who fails to explain how their model fails when a parameter is negative might be correct but not precise (maybe?).]]> 2016-12-04 15:31:54 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/141600032 Adam https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/141600244 I think "sophisticated" is to do with showing a level of understanding that allows mathematics to be applied in unfamiliar ways. Hence students won't score well if they do a "routine" problem from the HL core but they could apply it to create an interesting model of a situation without having to study new material - I definitely don't think the guide implies they should have to study a totally new topic to do well! ]]> 2016-12-04 15:34:50 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/141600244 Adam https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/141600444 Many of my students' best IAs in the past have been ones which scored poorly in this criterion but got a total of 16-17 overall. As a result I have often erred on the side of guiding students towards slightly less sophisticated topics where they are likely to do well in the other four criteria -especially if they are unlikely to reach E5 or E6 anyway.]]> 2016-12-04 15:38:15 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/141600444 Soo Chan Hua https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/1078600897 I hate IB]]> 2021-01-12 14:16:49 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/1078600897 Frank https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/1359543959 Hi all. Correct vs Precise. I like the different suggestions you provided for its meaning. Could it also have to do with the use of sig figs? If measurements are used as numbers in calculations, could precision mean the idea of how many significant figures can be used and how final answers are expressed? I know this is more an idea from a science IA, but perhaps it applies for math as well. It would definitely show good knowledge and understanding. ]]> 2021-03-27 08:12:12 UTC https://padlet.com/hamed_mokhtar/3myx6qewc2zp/wish/1359543959