https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi A common term used in many varieties of English to address a group of people is 'guys,' as in "C'mon, you guys, let's go!" For many speakers, this term in the singular is almost exclusively masculine, but in the plural it can refer to all male referents, a group of both males & females, or an all-female group. Do you use this term? If so, how do you use it, that is, what are the possible referents? If you are female, do you ever object to being referred to with 'guys'? Do you think this usage is inherently sexist, as it uses a male term as the default, like 'mankind'? Do you have other related examples of language? (ESL 8110 F19) en-us 2017-04-17 18:40:54 UTC 2020-02-07 02:54:27 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/icons/Lightdecrease.png https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395782416
As the United States becomes increasingly conscious of the inherent connotations and implicit biases in our language use we see phrases like 'hey guys' start to fade. More gender-neutral alternatives like 'folks', 'y'all', and just the singular 'you' to refer to a group of people rise in popularity and give us great examples of how language intersects with both identity and politics. As an urban middle-class male I have almost exclusively used 'hey guys' as a greeting my whole life to help construct my identity and to form solidarity through informality. This all changed when I began to work as a waiter a few years ago in a very progressive Nepali restaurant. I have slipped up and offended customers with this greeting in the past so now I make a very conscious effort in that setting to use 'y'all' or a singular 'you' to refer to a whole table. I know some men complain that the world is becoming so politically correct that we are losing some cultural traits but maybe it's time we stop and think deeply about the social meaning behind this cultural use of language. It would feel uncomfortable and probably insulting if we were to use 'hey ladies' as a casual greeting replacing 'hey guys' so I think it's time we in America make the change to the Southern 'y'all' or the Midwestern 'howdy folks'. ]]> 2019-10-09 18:20:42 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395782416 kpieczonka01 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395877914 Note: I identify as a cis woman, I grew up in a household of only women, and I was born in the 1990s.

So I say 'guys' to refer to a group of people, and I have never felt that it bothered me, but I have begun to recognize that not every other person feels the same way. I think since there isn't a good plural of 'you' in the northern US, we have defaulted to this term. I have begun consciously switching to using 'y'all' when I'm at work, even though I'm as southern as a polar bear. 

One term that I have been called out on using when addressing other women is 'dude'. I grew up referring to all people as dude (think Michelle Tanner from 'Full House'), and was heavily influenced by the Nickelodeon show 'Kenan and Kel'. There's a running joke/song about how everyone is a dude. If you've never seen/experienced this show before, I highly recommend it for silliness and 90s nostalgia.]]> 2019-10-09 21:55:43 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395877914 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395942521 I use this term all the time. I try so hard not to use it because as a teacher I want to be inclusive for everyone. I am a girl and have never thought that when someone says "guys" that I was excluded. I always felt like "guys" was gender neutral until I was called out on it during a class. Ever since then I realized sometimes people get offended by being called "guys" and i'm glad I know! So this is something that I am working on everyday! -CM]]> 2019-10-10 02:52:20 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395942521 ccherry01 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395948051 2019-10-10 03:23:31 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395948051 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395955788 I have been working in various bars for approximately six years and have developed a code for greeting people which I actually think contradicts itself but so far it has not failed me.  I think most servers or bartenders will generally greet you with "Hey guys."  I used to use this greeting with all patrons until I started thinking, "what if I offend someone?"

In general, I do not believe people who use this greeting give one thought to the masculine implications as this has been a standard greeting for a very long period of time.  I do see how some may come to be offended by such a greeting especially if they strongly identify as female or simply want to do away with gender specific terms.  So as to not offend anyone, I usually use "you two" ("would you two like another beer?") if I am serving two people.  If there is more than two I will use "you all" or "anyone."

Here's the contradiction: if I get a very strong gender feel from patrons I will use gender specifics as I feel it helps tips.  Example: older men who outwardly appear (I realize I am making assumptions) to identify as male seem to love when I address them as "fellas."  I have only had positive feedback from that greeting and it actually helps to create a mood.  Another example is "hey ladies" for a group of women with overly feminine qualities such as a group dressed very nicely and out for a bachelorette party.   Again, this greeting only seems to help the mood and I always get positive feedback.]]> 2019-10-10 04:11:38 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/395955788 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396062731 I have been thinking about my use of “guys” to refer to more than one person for a good while now, especially when referring to my students.  I have definitely said things like “What’s up, guys?”, “Let’s go guys”, “How are you guys doing?” for as long as I can remember and I have I said these utterances regardless if it was a group of males, females, or a mixture of both.  I also hear it all the time and feel it is largely accepted, but perhaps we are not questioning if it appropriate or not?  I have started to try and say “everyone” in place of “guys” or “all” (as in hi all, thanks all, love you all), etc.  With my students, I will mostly say “everyone” but do still say the occasional “guys”. The term does seem inherently sexist, and it would be nice to see something take its place, much like “postal worker” has taken over for “postman” etc.   I like the way Pittsburghese uses the plural of you: Yinz.  This seems nice to me.

]]> 2019-10-10 10:59:54 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396062731 sherry_smith1 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396063930 Guys, guys, guys.
I use it all the time  usually in the form of "you guys" with a little "you all" thrown in for good measure.

Why?
Because it fills a need.

You can say that "you" is singular or plural all you want, but it is falling short. It is not getting the job done. 
So I use "you guys", and I use it often. I grew up hearing it, and I never thought about it being masculine at all, until someone along the way raised the issue .I am female, who doesn't think it is inherently sexist, I feel like we needed something to get the job done, and we just grabbed a short word for ease of use. 
 
I was born and raised in Minnesota, but I have come to see the importance of the job "y'all" does for my southern countrymates. I admit to trying it out, sometimes raising the eyebrows of my midwestern audience. 

If someone were to tell me he or she was offended buy my use of guys, I do think I would try to use it less. However, I am going on record that if no better alternative comes up, you know I am pulling "y'all" out of my tool box.




]]> 2019-10-10 11:04:01 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396063930 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396169735 I use 'guys' all the time in my daily speech. When I was going through my teacher prep program it was taught to us that we need to avoid using guys and use alternatives instead: "fifth graders, scholars, students, etc." such as "Okay, students, we are going to get started now on page 11." I really tried to use alternatives exclusively in my first couple of years of teaching, but I do throw in guys more and more these days from habit.

An area I really took on and rarely slip up on now is using 'women' for 18+ females and 'girls' for 17 and younger. I typically use 'ladies' as an age-neutral term. For now, this is where I am trying to make the biggest difference in sending a message through my language. 

]]> 2019-10-10 14:13:35 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396169735 rmaki03 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396191990 I don't use "guys" as much in my speech ever since my server days at a country club. The server training me in explained that the older generation of golfers we catered to might not appreciate being referred to as "guys" as it was a slang term. I got out of the habit of using it, and now I almost never use it. 
I don't feel offended when referred to as "guys." Mostly I note the informality that I now associate with it. ]]> 2019-10-10 14:40:33 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396191990 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396422805 I seldom use "guys" anymore, but my kids, who are young adults still use it across genders. They would be the same ones to tell you that it's important to use the pronouns that people identify with. They seem to think of guys as an almost gender-neutral term. For whatever reason I still can't use it that way. When I was in college, one of the trends was to use "women" and never "ladies" because of older connotations of that word. I don't remember the exact issue, but I almost never use it.
Yous kind of makes grammatical sense, but sounds off to my ear. You'ins is about the same. "Yinz" makes me laugh. "Ya'll" is a term I use in casual conversation and I have used "you all" if the situation was a bit more formal. I guess I would still like a better option.]]> 2019-10-10 20:46:13 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396422805 jsticha02 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396505890 I used to use "guys" all the time (and sometimes still do out of habit!), but I'm making a conscious effort to use "friends" or "y'all" instead, especially with my students. I notice that a lot of people of all genders use it synonymously with "everyone". I'm a woman and don't find it offensive when someone says "guys", but can see how it annoys some non-men just because it unintentionally centers the conversation around men. As far as "mankind" goes, I personally don't have a problem with it, but again, can see why some might. When I was in college in choir, we would actually change some words in our songs from "men" to "all"! For example, instead of singing "and on earth, goodwill to men", we would sing "and on earth, good will to all". It was actually really cool to see my male choir directors make that change without question--it was really powerful!]]> 2019-10-11 02:49:30 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396505890 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396640253 I use the term 'guys' all the time in both spoken and written speech. For example, if I'm messaging a group of friends, I might start it with, "Hey guys!" I use it to refer to both men and women, even if it's a group of only women. And I don't mind if people refer to me and a group as "guys." In my opinion, this term has been so often used as a gender neutral greeting that it has lost it's gendered meaning in this context. ]]> 2019-10-11 12:33:56 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396640253 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396922371 I use this term all the time and I sometimes wonder if there are any people who are not comfortable with this term but I have never tried to switch to "y'all " just because I am not simply not used to it. With this being said, I do not mind if someone refers to me when I am in a group as "guys " , I simply consider it as being neutral. ]]> 2019-10-12 01:32:48 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/396922371 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397042186 I have used this term and other similar terms such as 'dude' quite often to refer to a group of both males and females. To be honest, it has been only recently that I began to think about the inherently sexist implications of using such language. However, my decision to curtail the generalized usage of these terms stem mostly from becoming more sensitive to gender role ideology.]]> 2019-10-12 22:56:43 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397042186 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397056158 I find myself using "you guys" way more than I intend to. It's a hard habit to break, but I'm trying to remember to replace it with "you all" instead.]]> 2019-10-13 02:31:58 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397056158 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397154268 I do use this term a lot which makes this interesting to think about! Besides "guys" I also often use "people," "y'all" and occasionally even "folks" (which I actually try to avoid and kind of cringe at when I use because it sounds so desperately Minnesotan - which is ingrained in me but for some reason I want to tone down). Honestly, with the term "guys" though, I've gotten the sense over the years that it is just a language variation example (like how 'guys' used to mean 'males' and now it doesn't). I would go so far as to say that "guys" as a group-call term no longer means the same thing as "men" or "dudes", etc. - To help explain this, think of the way that some people say or pronounce it. High school or college aged kids I've been around will pronounce it "guyyyzzzz," or something like that with a drawn out "ee" sound and a drawn out final-consonant sound. This pronunciation, to me, says that it has been played around so much that it now does not mean what it once did. I think that many people no longer associate the term with 'male.'
I even think that sometimes using 'guys' is stronger in terms of getting a group's attention, than other options like "y'all" or "people." In fact, if I want to get the attention of JUST the females at this table or JUST the males at that table, I have used "ladies" or "girls" for the females and "boys" for the males before. I do not use "guys" to get the attention of just males. So I guess I think of "guys" as neutral, do to language variation and change. And I am not offended by it when I am in the group being called because of this.]]> 2019-10-13 18:42:18 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397154268 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397639695 I'm somewhat involved int the cycling community here in the Cities. The cycling industry is dominated by males, and there are some business and companies that are not only aware of this, but try to change it. I'm cis female and that's one reason I got a job in the bike shop I did. The shop I work at is family owned and they are very much tuned-in to the gender inequality issues. There are two cycling groups in the Cities that are FTW(Femme/Trans/Women)-focused or FTW only. (FTW is now starting to include non-binary, and the acronym is growing). One is Grease Rag, which creates a safe space for FTW riders to come in and work on their (notice I said their, and not her) bike, and the other is Midwest Dirt Legion, which do FTW only mountain bike group rides and skill clinics. Sometimes groups like this will open up to non FTWs only if that person is invited by an FTW.  The bottom of this flyer has a really good example of safer space policy and inclusive language. ]]> 2019-10-14 21:37:02 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397639695 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397675746 I use this term on a regular basis when referring to my daughters at home, my friends, and my students (both male and female). I don't even think about it unless it is pointed out in such a discussion as this. I also do not object to this term being used in reference to myself in a group of either males and females or females only. I think it is such a common phrase that I have heard and used for so long that I don't think about the fact the the term "guy(s)" refers to a male. When I stop to think about it, I do think is it inherently sexist as "Hey gals" is not used to refer to more than one person of any gender, but rather female groups specifically. ]]> 2019-10-15 00:27:54 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397675746 https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397688681 I find myself using this term all the time. Definitely in the classroom. I try to catch myself from saying 'you guys' because I know it's not a correct term to use for boys and girls. I'm not offended by this term and I don't think it's meant to be sexist but I can see it as coming across this way.]]> 2019-10-15 01:15:14 UTC https://padlet.com/berg1207/34jya0l16esi/wish/397688681