My apologies for going silent re last night. I thought I had posted a note saying I'd be on a ferry boat and therefore unavailable, but the post must not have gone through. We had high winds on Nantucket, and the internet got a little shaky a couple nights.

We will absolutely meet on October 30. I'll post a topic in the next day or two, and I'm looking forward to seeing you all!

DK

In general, my policy is not to feature my own work in these discussions, since the creative process is largely about writers finding their own voices. But in this case, Elizabeth and I agree that it might be useful to take a stab at the request, so here goes.

It's not necessary to read the whole novel; I think I can do a pretty good job of introducing relevant characters and situations during the discussion, and in that spirit I've selected three scenes from the book and will upload them here. Note that each upload requires a separate padlet post, so be sure to scroll down.

See you then!

To be honest, my sense of diction is more a collection of inchoate notions than a global theory. But I do definitely have notions--plus a couple of strategies--which I'd love to discuss. As always, please feel free to share your own thoughts on the subject; also, of course, to call me out when I'm wrong.

I should say that this isn't something I've done before, and I've been warned that it can be hard to get through everyone's work. But I'll do my best, and if we all feel it's a success, I'll schedule another similar session soon.

Also: Happy Thanksgiving!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Jon and Laura were on the list for the 27th, but we ran out of time, so if you two still want to step before the jury, you're first in line. Others on a first come, etc basis.

And this seems like a good thing to build into the system every couple of months, so stay tuned...

Thanks to everyone for the smart and perceptive comments.

And then Frank and I will be in Mexico the first two weeks of January. Damn, I'm gonna miss everyone!

I'll be back on January 16, though, and we'll do the January reading on that date. Stay tuned for the PDF.

And happy holidays to all!

On January 15, let's check out this celebrated bit of weirdness from Neil Gaiman. As a point of reference, we'll consider Angela Carter in February.

Then let's transition to a sentence clinic. I think we still have one person from last time we didn't get to; after that, it's open call.

As always, your thoughts and observations will be deeply welcome.

Note that though the pdf begins with "The Werewolf," we'll be discussing "The Company of Wolves," which begins on a subsequent page.

One list I encountered in my student days comprised nine elements, starting with the more concrete and moving toward the more abstract: Plot, structure, character, setting, point of view, language & style, theme, irony, symbol. I have my quibbles with this list, but I think it might be fun, over the winter of '24, to engage these various components in order, taking one or two weeks for each one. (Depending on how it goes, we may do the last three--the more figurative elements--as a cluster).

To that end, on 2/19 we'll be talking about plot. Why are stories even a thing?

We spoke about structure not too long ago, but let's drift from our discussion of plot to thinking about how plot and structure interrelate.

Related to all this is the novella I'd like to talk about on March 4th (Exelauno Day, to you scholars of ancient Greek).

Whoa! I am a sloppy mess today. It's just a head cold, but it requires me to clear my schedule and take to my bed like a Victorian lady. Now, where did I leave the laudanum?

But hooray! Elizabeth will be sitting in. Have a wonderful session!

I look forward to talking about Damon Galgut's novella next week, on March 4, and to picking up our discussion of plot and structure on the 11th.

All best to all of you.

Dave

And what better day to speak of Damon Galgut's novella "The Follower," from his book In a Strange Room. This one is a bit longer than usual, but there's quite a bit of white space, and it pairs nicely with the discussions we've been having re the elements of narrative. And it is, after all, about marching forth.

I look forward to seeing you then.

See you there!

Please join us!

Let's pick up any final thoughts on Edward P Jones' "The Store" and also continue to think about setting. We are gradually moving toward our next fictional element, point of view, which also plays a pretty significant role in the Jones story.

Enjoy the spooky light!

I hope to see you there!

If there's time, we'll also move into thinking about language and style. I hope to see you there!

Language & style, Theme, Irony, Symbol, moving generally from concrete to abstract).

I think we'll treat the last three items--theme, irony and symbol--as a group because they are the most abstract of the bunch. I have thoughts about how writers develop theme and symbol (the David Foster Wallace story we discussed last week handles both pretty elegantly), but I have fewer thoughts about irony, since I'm not really ironic, at least on the page. So please bring your ideas to share.

We may wrap this up in one week, but if folks want it to bleed over into one more session, I'm game for that too.

See you there!

See you then!

Also, one note: on the following Monday, June 3, I'll be returning from my nephew's wedding. I expect I'll be home by 4:30, but if I'm not here, the great and powerful Elizabeth Gaffney will take over. I'll confirm once I've nailed down travel details.

Happy summer, all!

A pdf is attached, and I look forward to your thoughts. And yeah, I will definitely be back from my nephew's wedding by Monday.

(One small note: I have a 3pm routine dental appointment in midtown. I expect to leave 46th St at 4pm at the latest and be home in Prospect Heights by 4:40, but if for some ridiculous reason I'm delayed, please go ahead and start, and I'll join you as soon as I can.)

This will be first come, first served, but if you know you're going to read and want to get ahead of the gridlock, feel free to email me at davekingwriter@gmail.com, and I'll start a list.

Also, it's important that you know we won't really be workshopping the pieces. Listeners are invited to post comments in the comments scroll, but the session will be largely focused on listening and learning about what our colleagues are up to, rather than specific critiques.

I look forward to hearing your work!

On Monday, let's continue to look at endings but also broaden the discussion to include subsequent drafts, expectations, ideas of refinement and even--shudder!--deletion. If the first draft is about getting stuff like plot and character down on paper, what do we expect when we go through a second time (or a third, fourth, seventh, whatever...)?

This topic is a little open-ended and subjective--I doubt there are wrong answers--so as such I welcome your thoughts and experiences. See you then!

I look forward to discussing D H Lawrence's "The Blind Man" with you on Monday, July 1.

For those who weren't with us on 7/1, some themes we discussed were Lawrence's gift for describing human intimacy; his interest in his characters' (particularly Isabel's) conflicting feelings; his use of setting to evoke human difference (urban/rural; leisure/labor; sighted/blind); his willingness to land repeatedly on words like "afraid" and "invisible" as the story progresses; and of course his suggestion of sex and sensuality as vital to the human condition.

A PDF is attached. I hope you'll join us!

(A reminder that we don't really workshop the pieces at these sessions. Listeners are invited to post comments in the comments scroll, but the session will be largely focused on listening and learning about what our colleagues are up to, rather than getting into deeper critiques.)

So on Monday let's talk about actual strategies for pushing a completed draft to the next level. I'll bring some ideas, and I look forward to hearing yours!

Beyond that, the list of revision strategies is attached. I'd like to discuss the second half on Monday's class. (Ignore the heading and intro; this was originally a handout for my NYU grad students.)

But what does it mean to evoke or quote another writer's work in this way? Let's have a general conversation about why this is interesting and how such literary referencing works. See you there!

Clearly there is not just one way to tell a story. Still, the variety of modes and methods for building narrative tension certainly bears examination, and given the openness of the topic, it seems useful to imagine our discussion as more of a seminar than a lecture. So please feel free to expound if that's your bag. See you there!

(A reminder that we don't really workshop the pieces at these sessions. Listeners are invited to post comments in the comments scroll, but the session will be largely focused on listening and learning about what our colleagues are up to, rather than getting into deeper critiques.)

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone on Monday the 23rd!

I look forward to our discussion!

I hope to see you there!

We'll have our "first-story" discussion the following week, October 14, and I'll post that story soon.

Peace out.

What I'm getting at is that the omniscient p.o.v. means something different when I'm using it than it does when an English Canadian writer writes about "us", or an American writer doing so. 

I'm appropriating the old forms (omniscience and historical fiction) in order to endow the stories that were silenced with the authority, the relevance, the power they were denied. 

Just look at Ship Fever, the novella. A beautiful story, yes. But apart from the rare mention of a French Canadian name (Dr. Perrault), there are no French Canadians in sight! Not one. And no acknowledgment that we exist. Yes, after Britain defeated France (1759), the British took over the governing class, but the majority of the people in Québec (the city and the province) were French Canadians who spoke French. You would never know that from reading Ship Fever. We are invisible, disappeared. 

Annick de B.

responses welcome

I look forward to seeing you there!

Elisa will join us for this discussion. I hope to see you there!

Elisa sent me this announcement of a conversation she's doing in New York next Monday. I'm unable to go, but some of you might be interested. I believe the ticket price includes a copy of Human Blues.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/an-evening-with-elisa-albert-tickets-1043048475067?aff=oddtdtcreator

Regrettably, I have to have a diagnostic procedure on Monday, and the only appointment I could get was at 4pm. It's possible I'll be home by 5 but more likely I won't, so I think it only makes sense to cancel. I'm so sorry about this.

DK

See you then!

(By the way, I told an anecdote on 10/28 about making students read this until they found it funny. I'm not sure it was clear that at the time I was making a joke, though the students all took me seriously. Talk about stuff not said!)

Let's deal with Dan's point first. On Monday we'll talk about omnibus works like Elisa Albert's "Mammals" and Amit Majmudar's "Secret Lives of the Detainees." (pdf's available in my column or by emailing davekingwriter@gmail.com.) Please feel free to bring examples of your own.

I look forward to seeing you!

(A reminder that we don't really workshop the pieces at these sessions. Listeners are invited to post comments in the comments scroll, but the session will be largely focused on listening and learning about what our colleagues are up to, rather than getting into deeper critiques.)

I look forward to hearing your work!

See you then!

Please join me Monday for a lively discussion of this piece by A. S. Byatt.

And just a head's up: I'll be in Italy from 12/25 until 1/8, so our first Monday session of 2025 will be on Monday, January 13. Happy new year, all!

Our first-Monday reading is a little late this year because I was overseas, but on 1/13 let's look at Joan Wickersham's story "The News from Spain," which is intriguing on several levels. First, this is from Wickersham's collection of linked short stories also called The News from Spain, in which all the stories have the same title, and small correspondences carry from piece to piece, sometimes across centuries.

Secondly, the story appears to characterize a recognizable public figure. That question of recognizability is something we've discussed before.

I look forward to seeing all of you!

What are some literary works that embody specific political or social agendas?

Have your views ever been broadened by a book or story?

Say a writer sets out specifically to write with an agenda. What are some tactics the writer might deploy? What works for you, and what doesn't?

Is everything political?

And so on.

I'm hoping for a meaningful chat about literature and big ideas. See you then!

(Because I was away at the beginning of January, I'm tabling the third-Monday open mic this month. But the open mic will absolutely return in February, so folks, start your engines!)

Let's talk about this on Monday at 5pm. See you there!

Email me at davekingwriter@gmail.com if you want to get at the head of the line. See you Monday!

I pulled a muscle in my back and was prescribed a muscle relaxer and a day of bed rest. Clearly I'll be fine, but it's unlikely I'll be able to sit at my laptop by 5pm, so I won't be able to host today's session. We had an open mic planned, so if you want to go through with that, please be my guests (I know Jon is ready). Otherwise, we'll push the open mic to next week.

With apologies and warm greetings!

Email me at davekingwriter@gmail.com if you want to get at the head of the line. See you Monday!

.....No need to thank me. Just leave your calling card with the butler.

Also, there've been occasional questions about the utility of an open mic. For me, the benefit derives from simply listening to your words aloud and hearing them more or less as they'd resound in the reader's mind. Reading aloud is also a great way to identify weaknesses in what you've produced. If you stumble over a passage, that passage might warrant another look; if your mind wanders at a particular point, give some thought to how to make the text more irresistible.

Anyway, see you Monday!

I look forward to seeing you there!

Anyway, let's continue our discussion of narration. At the end of last week's session there was a question about foreshadowing and moving into the future. I don't have a whole lot to say about like that, but I'd like to make a few points and also talk generally about styles and modes of narration. I look forward to your thoughts!

On April 21, she'll host an open mic.

On April 28, she'll discuss an Octavia Butler story. Stay tuned!

And I'm happy to be going to France but sorry to miss all of you on those dates. DK

See you there!

The great Elizabeth Gaffney will sit in on the 12th, and I'll be back on the 19th for an open mic. To your health!

Anyway, let's do our open mic tonight. It'll be so great to see all of you! Email me at davekingwriter@gmail.com if you know you want to present.

See you then!

DK

Nah, I'm kidding. Like everything we do in this darned business, endings are occult. But let's have the discussion anyway. Please bring your theories, your experiences and any recommendations of unusually strong endings you'd like to share with the group.

See you there! And if you miss the session because you're off at a Memorial Day picnic, that's cool too, but watch out for bees hovering above the potato salad!

A couple of you are working in pretty spare modes, while others' projects are more lush. It's all good, but let's hear about your experiences of working as you do, also perhaps what kind of prose you're done to when you read for pleasure.

See you there, I hope!

Anyway, as per my announcement last week, on Monday we'll have our usual third-week open mic. Bring stuff you're proud and delighted with, or bring stuff you're uncertain about. Any and all texts welcome!

Email me at davekingwriter@gmail.com if you want to join the cue. I look forward to hearing your work!

So on Monday the 23rd, let's expand (contract?) the discussion to the actual page, the actual manuscript. How do we know when we're overwhelming the reader with detail, and what can we do about it? How do we know when we're not giving readers enough?

Again, this will obviously vary from writer to writer, but let's talk about how these issues of more and less text can be applied in the most practical sense as we sit alone in our sad half-lit rooms, channeling the glory of our own thoughts.

See you then!

I'll miss everybody this evening! I have a long physical therapy appointment that will run past 5pm, and unfortunately the same thing will happen Thursday, despite my earlier plans to take that evening's slot. So Elizabeth will be graciously filling the host chair tonight, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone on July 7. Thanks for bearing with me during this long, incredibly boring recovery!

Forget war crimes, murder, betrayal and other major league mayhem, for a minute. How do writers use small-scale problems and incidents, from the cat bite in Paula Fox’s Desperate Characters to the social anxiety that plagues Clarissa Dalloway, to drive big stories?

(On a side note, the other candidate was Saunders' "Escape From Spiderhead," but on rereading it I feared that some might justifiably find it triggering. For those who are curious, however, I'm happy to provide a pdf. Just email me.)

But we didn't get very far into the story, and there was an apparent consensus that we'd like to continue this coming week. I don't think I'll start where we left off (page 227) but let's look at the way Saunders handles the end of the story, especially with regard to misdirection, maintaining reader interest and so on.

I look forward to seeing you all there!

On Monday please feel free to read something you're proud of, something you're struggling with, or just something you need to hear the sound of.

Email me if you want to get in the cue--or just show up! I'm looking forward already.

I have thoughts about ways this works or doesn't work for me, but hey, I'm just the moderator. Please bring your own ideas, queries, examples and so on. I look forward to seeing you!

See you there, I sincerely hope!

On Monday let's talk about how this is done technically but also talk about the writers who've influenced you. How important is it to you to bring those authors' voices and ideas into your own projects, and how are you approaching this?

As always, I look forward!

I think this is a great suggestion, and I'm looking forward to picking the topic apart. I might also fold in questions of first person/third person, etc, as these are also broad concerns that affect the sweep of a manuscript.

Bring your genius or bring your confusion, but bring it!

Happy writing!

But on Monday September 8, let's roar into fall with a discussion of David Gates' "A Hand Reached Down to Guide Me." I look forward to your thoughts.

But the second half of the story does have plot, and many of the characterizations are deepened through Gates' remarkable dialogue. Let's pick at that dialogue with all the acuity and courteous disagreement that so characterizes these sessions. See you there!

So what do you say? Shall we give this odd topic a go? We may find that the conversation leads us to thinking about structure, metaphor and other notions; or it may fall dead at our feet. Who knows?

I hope to see you there!

As in most writing workshops, the primary texts will be works in progress by course members: novels, stories, memoirs and so on. Each writer will submit two or three times, roughly 15-30 pages each time--though I tend not to be strict about that type of thing. Our emphasis will be on constructive but thoughtful criticism as well as broader issues of craft, structure, aesthetics and so on. The goal is to help writers revise current work and move forward with all their projects.

The course runs 9 sessions, 10/8-12/17 (with no meetings on 10/15 and 11/26). Space is limited. For more information, please visit https://www.the24hourroom.org/store/p/engines-of-narrative.

As some of you know, I’ve taught literature and creative writing at NYU for the past eighteen years and was at Baruch before that. I’m the author of a best-selling novel and the winner of a number of awards, including the Rome Prize for Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and an O. Henry Prize.

Thanks!

DK

Meeting weekly on Fridays with EG, but I encourage others to convene additional sessions anytime!

Ride the bus with the super cool 24-Hour gang!

I'm thinking a paragraph or so, so we can get through everyone.Or even just a sentence.

See you there!

See you in the lounge at 5!

See you there!

This coming Monday let's unpack the intriguing ending and the reemergence of the Diaz's narrator, Yunior.

Not to be missed!

I have to give a talk at my job on Monday night, so I regretfully cannot see you here via zoom. I'm looking forward to November 21, though!

Happy writing--

DK

This week, let's continue revving our motors and talk about some ways a writer might kindle a plot at the narrative's start. I know, I know! Many of us don't really care about plot and just want to write pretty sentences that show off our puckish humor. But let's pretend for an hour...

See you there.

See you there!

Roughly 1000 words, though who's counting?

So please bring your thoughts about writing about love. Romantic love, of course, and desire (how are the two different?) but also filial love, unrequited love, deep overweening friendship and so on.

See you there. I'll have my heart on my sleeve.

I expect to be back by January 5 for our first-Monday reading chat. Please see the other post for that info.

Happy holidays, all!

As an extra treat, check out Jon's report (with accompanying soundtrack) on seeing Murakami at NYC's Japan Center in mid December. That's on the group WhatsApp chat called The 24-Hour Room.

Things I'm particularly interested in discussing:

• The movement to a conventional scene after the interiority of the first half

• Similarly, the shift from a somewhat dour assessment on page 318

• The question raised by Marina: is the elephant a symbol? If so, of what?

• Annick's provocative point about our narrator's withholding of crucial info: is this the clever deployment craft or just Murakami playing with us?

• Is the story satisfying?

• Or, of course, whatever you want to talk about.

See you there!

Along similar lines, there was a suggestion that we fold in Murakami's book "What I Talk About When I Talk About Running," Which evidently includes writing insights as well as athletic braggadocio. I won't have time to read it before Monday, but I welcome any insights others have gained.

(There are actually a fair number of quite good books about writing. What are some of our favorites?)

See you Monday!

"Well, it's not all me talking. I mean, plenty of other folks jump in. We've got a very engaged group."

"That's not what I asked."

"Oh. Okay, sorry. Well, the actual topic... So I thought we'd talk about dialogue. You know, like what it achieves in terms of plot and character development and so on, how to make it sound--"

"Didn't you do that already"

"Well yeah. But it's been a while, and it never hurts to review. We're working writers, after all, and we've learned stuff. Our perspectives have changed. There's still more to say."

"Huh."

"And anyway, dialogue is paradoxical. It's not just a transcript of whatever people say. It's more of a--"

"Is that so."

See you there!

https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/ItGh3rX1goafIHu__OGaEvOXlRy3O_bc0aaoplDKhi7eEC4ldkuVxU7IJ5HAHcD3.QLqrKmhZ6aVIgztO

See you all Monday!

Like everything else, this is highly subjective terrain. No firm rules! So bring your stories, your frustrations, your discoveries, and we'll figure it out together. It'll be kind of like a group ayahuasca healing session--but for writers.

(PS. This idea was prompted by Grace Paley's interesting deployment of time in "Samuel," the story we read for February 2.)

I look forward to hearing what everyone's been working on!

See you all Monday!

Feel free to reach out at davekingwriter@gmail.com if you want to get on the list. Looking forward!

As always, I look forward to seeing you there.

As always, I'm looking forward to seeing you there!

But Hempel did write one book, The Dog of the Marriage, in which she explored longer forms. On Monday, let's discuss this example of that work. I look forward to seeing you there!

On April 20, let's revisit Amy Hempel's "The Uninvited" for the session's first ten minutes or so. (A pdf is on the schedule for 4/6/2026.)There was some disagreement about the timeline and certain technical authorial choices, so the panel agreed to reread the piece and briefly convene.

After that, let's talk about foreshadowing: when is it appropriate, how the hell do you do it, why is it useful? Or whatever. We've talked a significant amount about flashbacks and jumps in time, but this seems to be a somewhat different concern conceptually.

Unless you have to wash your hair, I'll expect to see all of you punching the clock promptly at 5pm on the 20th. Happy writing!

On Monday, May 4, I have an end-of-the-year academic commitment and won't be able to host. So we'll do our monthly reading on May 11.

Happy writing, everybody!

Parade's End by Ford Madox Ford, admittedly a bit long (596pages)

The Flamethrowers by Rachel Kushner,

Bleak House, by Charles Dickens,

The House in Paris, by Elizabeth Bowen,

American Woman, by Susan Choi,

The Power and the Glory, by Graham Greene.

Annick

Just a reminder that I won't be hosting a meeting today, May 4, due to an end-of-the-academic-year commitment. I hope your writing continues to go well!

On Monday, May 11, let's hold our monthly discussion of a work of literature. This month's text will be Jorge Luis Borge's "Pierre Menard, Author of Don Quixote." I look forward to your thoughts!

Post readings, info, ideas or anything else of relevance to the Fast & Loose board

See you there!

Feel free to let me know...

If we are meeting (and I'm happy to), let's continue with the revision techniques discussion we began on May 18.

Happy holiday!

Also, to access the doc, click on the three dots in the upper right-hand corner of this post. You should see a link to download it to your device, and then you'll be able to print it.

Or email me, and I'll email it back to you.

Or throw a shoe at my head.

UPDATE: We are on for Monday! See you then!

In any case, on June 7, let's discuss Memento Mori. This will pick up on our discussion of repeating scenes and motifs, and we may also find ourselves looking at how the story was translated into Christopher Nolan's celebrated film Memento.

See you here!

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone.

I had planned to hold an open mic on June 22 but will hold off if it seems likely you'll be doing open mics while I'm away. Let's chat briefly about this on 6/15.

Looking forward to seeing everybody.

I'll be in Italy for the next two weeks, so I won't be officially holding craft sessions. I'll miss you!

However, several of you have suggested that you'd like to continue meeting during the Monday 5-6 slot for informal talks, open mics, hand-holding and so on. Sounds like a great idea to me. If you know you'll be here, you might consider adding a response below just to let others know, but I'm sure it's also fine to just show up and see who's hangin' in the Lounge.

I'll be back on July 13, and we'll discuss a work of fiction, which I'll be sure to post at least a week in advance.

Good writing to you all!

Does anyone still read Updike? He was such an essential literary figure during my coming-of-age, and yet I rarely go back to his works now. But one book that does repeatedly draw my attention is Too Far to Go: The Maples Stories, which is a 1979 compilation of the linked stories Updike wrote over twenty years and published in an obscure publication called The New Yorker. The stories feature the middle-class couple Richard and Joan Maple and describe the state and decline of their marriage. The first appeared in the New Yorker in 1956, the last in 1976, and this one, "Twin Beds in Rome," is from 1964.

A pdf is attached. I look forward to your thoughts. 5pm Monday (or 11pm Rome time). See you there!

Interesting discussion Monday--so many disparate views! Let's pick up the Updike at the top of page 60, when Richard and Joan are at the Piazza Venezia. I'm particularly interested in thoughts on Updike's ornate imagery and '60's-style sexual politics, but anything you bring to the table is fine. A pdf is reuploaded in case you don;t already have it.

As I mentioned, we're building to a conversation about linked stories the following week.

Ciao!

See you there!

--Dave

Among other things, I'd like to talk about the question of what the reader brings to the experience vs what the writer is obligated to provide. Also, of course, the punctuation...

See you there!

Looking forward!

As suspected, I will be taking my great niece on a college trip on Monday, and though there's a possibility I'll be back in my lair by 5pm, it's not guaranteed. So I won't be online on Monday but look forward to seeing all of you a week later, on the 24th.

Happy writing!

DK

I hope to see you all there!

(This is Dave. I don't know why the padlet persists in maintaining my anonymity, no matter how often I sign in.)