P.2 The Giver: Socratic Seminar2 by Veronica Ros-Murillo

4692451 — 2025-02-11 17:19:13 UTC

4692451 — 2025-02-11 17:20:30 UTC

Is Jonas' decision to leave his community a moral imperative, or is he abandoning his responsibility to the society that raised him?

2025-02-11 17:20:41 UTC

What does the community's pursuit of "Sameness" reveal about the human need for individuality and experience?

4815361 — 2025-02-11 17:21:18 UTC

How does the portrayal of "release" as a euphemism reflect the dangers of societal manipulation and the suppression of uncomfortable truths?

4742021 — 2025-02-11 17:21:58 UTC

Does the novel ultimately suggest that a life without pain is inherently less meaningful?

4712531 — 2025-02-11 17:23:01 UTC

I agree with Kameron because these painful memories are a part of who you are as a person. They help you build your character and what you will do later. Taking it away removes this important part of them.

4765351 — 2025-02-11 17:23:46 UTC

I agree with Lea because painful memories help us grow and without them how are we supposed to grow.

4842801 — 2025-02-11 17:24:13 UTC

The portrayal of release is very strong manipultion because it makes people think that being released is not death and something happpend this shows that they control people and try to hide thins that could shift the views of people and make people think for themselves

4717871 — 2025-02-11 17:25:36 UTC

Building up on what savannah said the people in the community are still people but they don't have any real types of emotions.

4692451 — 2025-02-11 17:26:13 UTC

I wanted to build on Savannah's idea because the idea of "humanity" is an entirely philosophical idea. Biologically, the people in the community still have the same natural human instincts that all humans do.

4693861 — 2025-02-11 17:28:26 UTC

How does the relationship between Jonas and The Giver challenge the idea of a "perfect" society and the value of individual connection.

4712531 — 2025-02-11 17:29:27 UTC

I agree with Ava because having this relationship allows them to truly open up to each other, building the relationship that is not considered "perfect" in this society.

4743622 — 2025-02-11 17:29:55 UTC

I agree with Ava they have a closer bond because they are able to talk about things that aren't talked about because the society was built to keep those feelings away and kept secret.

2025-02-11 17:31:48 UTC

I agree with Lucy how Jonas and The Giver has a father and son relationship and not a grandfather and son relationship because Jonas doesn't really see his own father as his father figure because Jonas watched his father killed a baby. The Giver would represent Jonas father figure because The Giver wants Jonas to learn and grow.

4695552 — 2025-02-11 17:32:57 UTC

Agreeing with Lucy saying that The giver is a better Father figure than Grandfather because even though Jonas already has a father but The giver treats him like a son better than His father does. I also think because The giver introduced "Love" to Jonas which shows them having a "Bond" with each other.

4712531 — 2025-02-11 17:33:11 UTC

I agree with Dane because since new children are lost only a few years after their birth, they don't have much growth yet and are more generic than what they can grow into as they turn into adults.

4724521 — 2025-02-11 17:33:22 UTC

I agree with Ali because even if you cannot feel pain or any emotions, there is always a relationship between a parent and child, or even cared for and caretaker, that cannot be broken besides extreme circumstances.

4712531 — 2025-02-11 17:36:07 UTC

I agree with Lucy because since no one has any true emotions, they wouldn't react much to learn about what "release" actually is, so it shouldn't have to be hidden.

4695552 — 2025-02-11 17:37:21 UTC

Adding onto question 4, I think that if the community does not want to lose people by them filling for release then shouldn't the Elders tell the children at a certain age what happens during release so they would be to afraid to leave?

4712531 — 2025-02-11 17:39:34 UTC

I agree with Ava because if everyone learned about it, some may become fearful of release, so it sort of makes sense why it was hidden.

4693861 — 2025-02-11 17:41:20 UTC

I disagree with what Lia said is that if people are scared of making a mistake because if they make to many they will be released. In my opionion, I think always living in fear that if you make mistake you get released you should be able to make a mistake and learn from them not be released.

4724521 — 2025-02-11 17:41:22 UTC

I disagree with Lia because there have been many times when countries were ruled by fear, and all of them have not worked for a long period of time. Fear is a viable reason for the people of the community to revolt, and I would think the committee would not want that on their hands.

4743622 — 2025-02-11 17:41:59 UTC

I agree with Lia I think that the reason release is so hidden because it will maintain the "perfect" society in their eyes because it can be like a warning to the others when someone does something bad and gets released. But, if the kids were knowledgeable about release wouldn't they want to follow the rules anyways because they would know that if you keep breaking rules you will be released?

4712531 — 2025-02-11 17:44:01 UTC

I agree with Savannah because they won't be as afraid to break the rules intentionally than if they knew about what "release" actually is.

4695552 — 2025-02-11 17:44:33 UTC

I want to add on to Kameron's claim because throughout life its ok to make mistakes because you learn from your mistakes and how will you grow if you get punished to make a mistake. Also it could be 3 different mistakes and not the same one.

4702071 — 2025-02-11 17:47:20 UTC

Are the elders in this book controlling how the community acts?, Based on the actions and how much more control over their own lives they have .

4764901 — 2025-02-11 17:47:26 UTC

I believe nobody should be living in fear of death but I also think nobody should be hidden from that feeling. I don't think the penalty of making mistakes should be death but maybe an introduction of jail time or something that can help people learn from their mistakes instead.

2025-02-13 17:24:05 UTC

Where's my Sprite Cranberry

4712531 — 2025-02-13 17:25:29 UTC

I agree with Ava because since the penalty is release (which people think is being banished to another community), less people want to commit crimes, so their society, in that aspect, is much safer than ours.

4717871 — 2025-02-13 17:27:22 UTC

Challenging what lia said how do you know the difference between masking the truth or lying?

4765351 — 2025-02-13 17:27:37 UTC

I agree with Lea because children get slightly punished for lying.

4702071 — 2025-02-13 17:29:33 UTC

I agree with Ava point if everyone were to know how to lie or do it then people won't know if people are honest or trustworthy.

4724521 — 2025-02-13 17:29:44 UTC

Is not telling the complete truth lying, even if it is done for what you think is the benefit of society?

4743622 — 2025-02-13 17:31:12 UTC

I agree with Savannah if someone doesn't ask them it isn't lying. If asked a question you could tell some truths but doesn't mean you have to tell the whole story, in other words keeping things to yourself.

472045 — 2025-02-13 17:31:50 UTC

I disagree with Lia, I feel that lying means saying what's not true and it's not hiding something.

4717871 — 2025-02-13 17:32:14 UTC

I agree with Savannah hiding the truth isn't the same as lying because not many people in the community asked about it so the truth isn't being manipulated.

4712531 — 2025-02-13 17:32:43 UTC

I respectfully disagree with Lucy because manipulation often includes the changing of many details to make their false claim true, and those changing of the details is lying.

4695552 — 2025-02-13 17:33:01 UTC

I agree Ali because it not necessarily "Lying", its more of a white lie or not telling the full truth. For example if someone asks about what happens during release and you say that they go anywhere they want is not lying because they can go to an "afterlife".

4692451 — 2025-02-13 17:33:07 UTC

I believe that lying is a step usually taken in the process of hiding the truth but the concept of lying and hiding the truth are separate things.

4702561 — 2025-02-13 17:34:41 UTC

Responding to Lucy's question about lying, I think that lying should be counted as hiding something, especially when it's something important like 'releasing' someone but only telling them the partial truth. They say that the children that get released go to a different place but they don't tell them how. I think that this is technically lying to them because they don't know the real truth. As Lia and Ava add on, they say that the elders are very manipulative, which is worse than lying. As I already said, I would consider the concept of release that is told to people to be a lie, because it is not the whole truth, but I don't quite think that release is getting to Manipulation, but there is definitely more to add on.

4765351 — 2025-02-13 17:35:02 UTC

I disagree with Lucy because he was trying to save the community from being meaningless.

4712531 — 2025-02-13 17:36:07 UTC

I disagree with Lia and Ava because Jonas is still responsible, even if he didn't choose this. Like our society, we have many responsibilities that we didn't choose and may not want. We are still responsible even if we didn't want to be. A few examples of this are responsibilities of going to school and doing your homework or getting other work done.

4743622 — 2025-02-13 17:36:37 UTC

Going off of Ava and Lia I think that he wants to do what he wants and break that perfect society, and by taking Gabriel he thinks he's potentially saving a life. I Don't think he was abandoning his duty if he didn't want it anyways.

4695552 — 2025-02-13 17:36:55 UTC

Is it possible that all of this could be a dream and not real?

4717871 — 2025-02-13 17:36:56 UTC

I agree with lia that when Jonas left the community it wasn't selfish because he was thinking for himself and Gabriel's future because the community was dull. When the receiver asked Jonas about music Jonas said that he doesn't know what music was.

4692451 — 2025-02-13 17:39:31 UTC

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION!

Jonas did not die and he later appears in one of the other books.

4815361 — 2025-02-13 17:39:46 UTC

I agree with Lucy disagreeing with Jonas' decision to leave the community with Gabriel.

4724521 — 2025-02-13 17:40:07 UTC

I agree with Lia and see it the same way, even though the author made it so you could see the end of the book whatever way you want. She said so in her interview at the end of the book.

4712531 — 2025-02-13 17:40:07 UTC

I agree with Ava that Jonas could be hallucinating at the end of the book because he is so worn down, so close to death that his mind can easily be hallucinating these things, trying to merge reality with memories.

4743622 — 2025-02-13 17:40:35 UTC

I agree with Lia, I think that the end of the book when it ended with his memory of snow, also known as his first memory, is showing the readers his new beginning with Gabriel.

4702561 — 2025-02-13 17:41:15 UTC

Talking more about how the elders speak of release and manipulating their people, I wonder about what the people would think if they knew about what release truly was. Are the elders manipulating their people when they take a child to release them? If they take a sick child and release them, are they doing it for the better so that no one else gets sick? Or what about a newborn that is underdeveloped and will be very hard to nurse back to health? And what would people think about the release of a sick child if they knew what release truly was?

4702071 — 2025-02-13 17:42:16 UTC

I disagree with Lucy be leaving that leaving the community was a bad idea because the people would never know the truth.

472569 — 2025-02-13 17:48:02 UTC

I disagree with Lucy because in their society their society isn't responsible for bad or any good memories, memories they put a singular person through all that stuff that has happened, obviously if they cant find another giver because the girl killed herself and Jonas ran off because of how sheltered they were maybe we shouldn't have it that sheltered....