https://padlet.com/ms_hadikusumah/25accnncujtbasx3 Outer circle- please contribute to the discussion by posting quotes, comments, etc. on this padlet. When responding to another student's question, please either mention the student's name or reiterate the question/prompt. Include your name on your post. en-us 2020-10-26 17:20:41 UTC 2020-10-27 19:30:33 UTC hello@padlet.com https://padlet.com/ms_hadikusumah/25accnncujtbasx3/wish/867114849 Lindsey's question: Rochester

Rochester's background is very unknown to Jane similar to how Raskolnikov was to the supporting character

 Tiffany: Adele

I think Lindsey's point that Jane will be the Miss Temple for Adele is valid, but I feel like the relationship between the two does not resemble the closeness that Jane and Miss Temple had. It seems as though Jane is just her teacher and similar to a sister figure but not motherly. 

Judy: Rochester's change

I feel like Rochester's change occurred because he realized he finally had someone to talk to with different mannerisms. Compared to Mrs. Fairfax and the other servants, Jane was definitely the person that could give him the most honest insight about the situation he was in which was not always what he wanted to hear.

Lindsey: Rochester thinks Jane hexed the horse

I think that Rochester could have been very serious. After reading following chapters, it seems like there is some kind of mysterious activity going on with him and Grace which makes me believe that there is something unexpected coming. 

Nhi: "women are generally calm..."

The author uses this quote to refer to societal standards and how they should be broken. His main point is that women had been expected to act a certain way but they should be allowed to go beyond those expectations and express themselves in whatever way they would like.

Lindsey: Blanche v Jane

I think Rochester gets more out his relationship with Jane than Blanche because Blanche can't provide the insights that Jane can, but Nhi's point about social class is likely the reason that is stopping them. 

"To watch Miss Ingram's efforts at fascinating Mr. Rochester, to witness their repeated failure - herself unconscious that they did fail: vainly fancying that each shaft launched hit the mark, and infatuatedly pluming herself on success, when her pride and self complacency repelled further and further what she wished to allure - to witness this, was to be at once under ceaseless excitation and ruthless restraint"

This quote shows how Jane believes that she has the superior personality that is better fit for Rochester and emphasizes that Blanche couldn't satisfy him in her eyes

Tiffany: status

Lindsey's point that Mr. Rochester is kind of more open to talking to Jane than she is to him, but I would like to add that Jane is not getting much out of their conversations besides making her love stronger for him. She figures out many things about him but he still purposely keeps many secrets away from Jane. An example of this is when he told Mr. mason not to talk her because he was knowing of Rochester's past

Judy: ethical sense

Jane's personality seems to be shaped by her experiences at Gateshead, Lowood, and Thornfield. How she was treated, who she met, and how she interacted with others likely rubbed off on her in some ways and influenced her behavior and personality

Tiffany:  rhetorical questions 

Nhi says rhetorical questions are used to talk to the reader and to build on that, I think that the author uses them to put some mystery and confusion in the audience to keep them engaged and unknowing of what will come next


]]> 2020-10-27 18:39:00 UTC https://padlet.com/ms_hadikusumah/25accnncujtbasx3/wish/867114849 rwan2468 https://padlet.com/ms_hadikusumah/25accnncujtbasx3/wish/867115689 - (Lindsey) thoughts on Mr. Rochester?
gives a sense of mystery and unpredictability

- (Nhi) "My couch had no thorns in it that night"
the "thorns" represent Jane's past life at Gateshead (struggles, injustice). at thornfield, jane feels a sense of hospitality at respect from the other servants, indicating how the "thorns" are no longer there

- (Judy) Rochesters' abruptness
for the first time in a long time, Rochester has a genuine conversation. his change in character results from meeting jane and their "connection."

- (judy) how does the change setting relate to character development?
- "coming of age" novel
- child that hasn't matured yet at lowood and gateshead --> thornfield = stage of development and maturation
- limits expectations when seeing Ingram and Rochester bonding --> shows her development in self-control and discipline

(Nhi) "Women are supposed to be calm generally.. it is thoughtless to condemn them"
- shouldn't think of women any less than human
- ties back to societal expectations back then, where women were required to do chores, laundry (all the dirty work of the household)
- Jane has a feminist view against this status quo. she stands up against these normalized expectations and has unconventional opinions

(Judy) 
- nhi: ingram highlights difference between jane and society
- Jane chooses not to confront Ingram despite her "superior" ego --> highlights the clear division between social class. 

(lindsey) rochester with blanch vs rochester with jane
- rochester and jane would not have maintained a healthy relationship because 1) status was prioritized back then 2) jane is a "lowly" governess and rochester is her boss 
- if the time era was circled around today, jane and rochester would have a good relationship because status and wealth doesn't play as big of an impact as it did back then.
- jane's passionate nature allows her to sympathize with rochester's jealousy
- jane finds it comforting that Ingram and Rochester lack a genuine connection; their love is clouded by beauty, wealth, and social standing

(judy) did the author leave Mr. Mason's background unclear by accident or on purpose?
- on purpose. creates a feeling of mystery (rochester's scornful view towards mason; his bleeding arm) and maybe foreshadows a later event in the novel
- the secrecy of Rochester's past and connection to Grace Pool puts a strain between his relationship with Jane. 
- gives a reason for Jane to not trust rochester

(nhi) when did jane eyre first meet mr. rochester?
- one day during december, jane took a stroll and stopped to watch the moon. saw a horse slip on ice and rochester injure his ankle

(Judy) jane's ethical sense: born ethical or had to learn along the way?
- lindsey: her kind nature was something she was nurtured into
- her selflessness is something she had to learn. while at gateshead, she always felt a sense of injustice between her and her cousins. it is not until lowood, where she meets helen, that she learns how to "love your enemies" and focus on self-approval. she accepts her position as a governess (considered low at the time)  because she understands moral nature vs. unjust status

(tiffany) what is the purpose of the rhetorical questions implemented throughout?
- allows the reader to predict the possibilities of what could happen in the future rather than simply narrating the story
- keeps the reader engaged by having them think analytically]]> 2020-10-27 18:39:11 UTC https://padlet.com/ms_hadikusumah/25accnncujtbasx3/wish/867115689 kwu2588 https://padlet.com/ms_hadikusumah/25accnncujtbasx3/wish/867117021 Lindsey: Rochester
-Rochester initially thought of as abrupt and the first romantic interest in the book
-Emphasized Jane's growth because this love interest is different from the beginning of the book where Jane is a child/teenager. 
-Rochester is another extremely complex character that adds a lot to the story, Jane isn't the only character with multiple layers... a bit of mystery

Tiffany: Adele and her relationship with Jane
-Jane is Adele's governess
-Talkative, intelligent, and reminds Jane of herself when she was younger
-Rochester's(most likely not but said to be) illegitimate child
-Their relationship is something new, yet there are lots of similarities to Jane and Miss Temple's relationship. Jane and Adele closely resemble a sibling bond

Nhi: Thornfield
-When first arriving at Thornfield, Jane experienced no prominent struggles or hardships, and there's irony in the name because she finally doesn't feel any "thorns"

Judy: Rochester's demeanor
-Ms. Fairfax reveals that he had a difficult past, and wasn't one to open up, until he met Jane
-Rochester is a complex character who also wasn't given the best of circumstances... past relationship was not great and he didn't seem to want to pursue or act upon his feelings towards Jane

Judy: Setting changes and character development
-Coming of Age novel
-At Thornfield, there are subtle differences in Jane and how she handles situations differently compared to when she was younger
-Jane at Lowood, always would retort back but at Ingram she held her tongue and acted more maturely

Nhi: Condemning of women
-Society did not hold women equal and the gender roles were prevalent and hard to overcome, even in novels
-Charlotte Bronte challenged these societal restrictions in the book, and did attempt to make sure Jane didn't conform to these ideals of female beauty

Nhi: Ingram and Jane
-The comparison of Jane to Ingram was a moment of vulnerability in Jane's potential relationship with Rochester
-Ingram is seen as someone Jane had wished she was, someone of great beauty and wealth, and further showed Jane's complexities and insecurities

Lindsey: Jane and Rochester and Blanch
-Due to the novel's time period it takes place in, the relationship would not have been a good match considering social status and how important wealth was
-Jane was a governess, and someone of little wealth, even considered to be in poverty while Blanch was a woman of higher social status, and someone who was seen as extremely beautiful
-If the relationship were to take place later, the relationship between Jane and Rochester would be beneficial

Lindsey: Jane and Rochester's motives
-Rochester could be feeling for Jane because he has someone to confide in and it can't be determined if Jane is just confiding in his company because this is the first male and romantic character in her life.

Nhi: Adele's purpose
-She could symbolize another obstacle in Jane and Rochester's relationship and his promiscuous past
-Jane and Adele do have a caring, good relationship even if Adele stands in as an obstacle (could be foreshadowing that Jane would be able to overcome the obstacles and prove to be a strong women.)

Judy: Mr. Mason's background
-The background was left unclear because it brings in mystery and and adds more about the side characters
-Rochester's secrecy and reluctance towards Mr. Mason could be another problem in Jane and Rochester's potential relationship and their level of trust

Nhi: When did Jane meet Rochester
-Jane saw Rochester return home on his horse with his dog after pondering about her past, and he had fallen off his horse and sprained his ankle and she helped him
-Shows a bit of importance because when thinking about her past and past relationships, the interjection of this ominous horse and man symbolizes her new life and new relationships she'll have at Thornfield

Judy: Jane and her ethics
-Jane matured into a good person as she grew up and was influenced by a few significant figures
-Miss Temple and Helen, helped build Jane's ethical sense
-Later on developed Helen's ideals
-Her harsh environment and previous frustration led her to her kind, nurturing self who learns to love herself a bit more

Tiffany: Rhetorical Questions throughout the novel
-The rhetorical questions somewhat help readers question it themselves, and entertain different possibilities of this story(helps readers analyze the characters' motives and seemingly important things)
-Charlotte Bronte breaks the fourth wall in the novel without actually breaking the fourth wall. 

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