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I liked Ben's connection to the great migration. In the story, since I was supposed to judge it from a historical lens I recognized historical elements such as segregation, and the great migration since so many African Americans were traveling in harlem. I think that its interesting that he chose gathered that out of the short storys

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The only wonder I have left is around Ellison's fiction vs non-fiction. While "Harlem is Nowhere" and his short stories both have the same principals, which one did people connect with more? Did they find the non-fiction more accessible because it gave authentic descriptions of Harlem and it didn't get lost in the fiction, or were people able to connect more to individual experiences like those in The Black Ball?

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All of the other girls in my group studied the psychology behind the two stories which was interesting to hear about. I looked into the stories and his upbrining as well, but there was little to find about women and the relationship they had with his stories. Also being able to view the text from another lense help me understand the stories more and relate the to perspectives of the other readers. I wonder how his stories would change if he had written them in the present time and how that would effect the psychology behind the stories and societal/gender roles placed on men and women.

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During our dicussion as well When Frances and Grace mentioned his upbringing I thought it was interesting how he took his expiriences into the writing and even through the stroies aren't real the expiriences and emotions the characters were going through are very real. Grace mentioned his upbringing and travels through Tuskegee and related her notes on how big changes like moving can effect a person and be overhwelimg to my argument about the overwhelimg feeling the main character had in the king of the bingo game.

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During our dicussion, I thought it was really interesting to look at the stories rofm another elnse than what I studied. I found it interesting how I also would notice the psychologucal themes in the story without even realising and I thought it was interesting when Grace mentioend the Fruedian beliefs of psychology since that relates to what we learned in Intro to Psych.

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I wonder if Ellison suffered from imposter syndrome since he wasn't able to complete his college education due to lack of funds.

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I wonder what Ellison's reason was for avoiding political topics in his stories. Was it out of fear, or just a personal preference?

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I like Sam and Ben's point on how many stories now could be written the same as they were in the past on how our world is today with similarities on how it used to be to now. As well as adding politics into the conversation, knowing that Ellison never wrote about or talked about politics in his stories. Also, would Ellisons' stories be different than how they were if he had continued to stay in the South?

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Ben brings up a good point that half of Black people were jobless from the Great Depression. In the Black Ball, unionism was a major theme. The character is being a perfectionist with his work due to the idea that he could lose his job at any time and "he is lucky" to be employed at that time.
Paige brings up a good point that African Americans were not seen as human but seen for their work. The characters boss did not acknowledge the character, but only examined his work.
I like Sams point that Ellisons father actually died in an industrial accident which could have an effect on the story.
Ben brings up a good point that the Black Ball's story draws parallels to now. Black children still need the race talk, POC are at a disadvantage in the work force and their jobs are often threatened, childhood innocence, etc.
Sarah brings up a good point that in the King of the Bingo game, even though the protagonist landed on 00 and won, he did not get his reward. This can relate to the feeling of hopelessness in the Black community.

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I like when Sam brought up how Ellison would write if he were in modern times. I think its interesting to think about what Ellison would have an opinion on, and what media he would stream his work through. I think it also makes a point that the problems addressed in the stories are still a problem now. Ben brings this up, mentioning that the lessons taught in these stories still need to be taught today.

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I like Sam's point of how would Ellisons work change written in present time

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I think Bens comment about how little change has actually occurred for African Americans today was significant. Going back to Sarah's statement about how African American parents still need to warn their children about discrimination, as well as violence is an interesting point. Although there has been change over the years, it seems that most needed change is still around today.

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I like how Sam related these novels to modern day art and music. I believe that we need to continue to write stories and songs about those times so that we can spread the important stories and events

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I agree that durning this time the Great Depression was a key influence on Ellison and his stories. Liam point of how in the black ball that the union worked hard for the white workers but not for the black workers is exactly how it worked in real life which led to the death of Ellison father. I like Paige point that blacks were still looked at as what can they do to help the white man and not as people.

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I like how Ben explained of during the Great Depression many African American jobs were taken by white Americans because of the lack of jobs. African Americans had to take the jobs that they could get during this time which meant a lot of dangerous factory jobs, but this was necessary to be able to live and afford to feed themselves and their families.

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I like Ben's connection to the Great Depression. I agree that it definitely had a huge impact on the stories, especially since money was a prominent factor in both stories.

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I think the fact that most jobs at the time were taken by white people contributed to Ellison's feelings of having no control over his fate. No matter how hard the protagonist worked to polish the brass, if there was a white man without a job he would immediately be replaced.

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I like how Spitz talks about how the Great Depression could be a big impact on jobs for African Americans in America and that all jobs they had would be taken by White Americans that were jobless and needed jobs

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I think Ella's comment about Ellison being the man of the house from a young age was really interesting. If this was the case, he probably didn't get the same childhood experience that his peers did, so maybe the little boy in The Black Ball was his way of depicting the childhood experience he wishes he had.

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I like how AJ and Noah say that Ellison couldn't really show his emotions and just try to run away from his problems because that is what he always tried to do except trying to lose his safe space being his mother and that is why he didn't want to lose her

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I like how they brought up how there were very few moments of vulnerability. He was probably seen as the head of the house since it was just him and his mom, so he probably tried to hide all emotions and act strong. The suppression of emotions can be attributed to why there arent many moments of vulnerability.

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Ella has a good point of bringing up how since he lost his father when he was a baby, he was forced to be the man of the house. This could draw a parallel to the men characters not being able to express emotion. In the king of the bingo game when the character shows his emotions he is seen as delusional and crazy so this may be how Ellison feels when he expresses emotions. He feels is cannot express emotion.

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I liked Ella's thoughts on how the child's situation would be different in "The Black Ball" if instead of having a single father, he had a single mother. If he had a mother he may be a lot more likely to be emotional and talk about his problems in instances such as the ball getting thrown into Berry's window.

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I like Annabel's description on how two stories could be changed by who plays each role. With a Mother and son describing that it would be nurturing and very comfortable story and when it is a father and son it would be very tough and that the son would not have the nourishment the mother would give to him by describing that it is going to be a hard life and you have to learn now rather than later the father would say at this time because it is expected.

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I also think that the absence of woman in the stories relates to the societal norms of men.  Traditionally, the men were expected provide for their families, income coming mostly from labor.  Especially as a black person during this time, many of the jobs available were menial labor jobs.  Relating to the Ella's point "Man of the House," after Ralph lost his father, he had to step up. He did not have the same childhood as other children he grew up with.

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I like AJ's point about it being an unusual perspective to have a single father. It's interesting to note that Ellison was raised by a single mother.

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I love AJs point of how the women characters in Ellisons works are supportive characters, yet his mother was a prominent activist. It is just interesting how Ellisons women characters are so different from his mother.

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Ella brought up a quote from the invisible man that describes a women as a doll explaining that she is seen as an object for entertainment. Annabel also talks about a quote about how the girls should have been dancing for entertainment. He also names some of the female characters like "the magnificent blonde" labeling them as how they are seen to others and in a way dehumanizing them or depersonalizing them.

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Ella's comment about how some authors have connected women to objects is really interesting to me. I think this same narrative is used often still today, and it can be seen in all different situations. One of the biggest obstacles that women in our world have had to face is objectification. It was interesting to find out that there are so many examples of this hidden in the texts we have read.

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I really liked Ella's connection to the Invisible Man, I think the evidence she chose really shows the role of women at that time period, or at least how Ellison viewed women. The fact that the female characters didn't have names goes to show their insignificance at the time.

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I feel that Ellison is intentionally showing the struggle the protagonist, John is facing as a single parent taking on both parental roles. John was both working and taking care of his son going from the front door to upstairs to feed him. Ellison shows how hard this is to handle by having his son get into trouble while John is sleeping which in turn causes John to be in trouble as well.

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I agree that Laura is a big factor in the bingo story. The story could be interpreted as a story of love and desperation, rather than a story of greed and desire.

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I think Noah's interpretation of Laura was an interesting perspective. Laura kept him motivated and influenced him to keep holding on to the button and keep the wheel spinning. Although she didn't have dialogue or a lot of character development, she played an important roll in the Bingo King's character.

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I like how Ella brought up the term "invisible women". It's very interesting how there appears to be very little women influence in both stories. The only time there is a prominent female role is when the protagonist of King of Bingo has to save his wife. Ellison brings in themes of objectification towards women. I wonder if this can be due to his upbringing.

Noah's comment about the women having important roles despite not having a lot of speaking parts. This can be connected to the historical time period, or even the loss of his mother and lack of a female figure in his life.

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I wonder if Ellison intentionally didn't include any female characters in either story. Is there a deeper meaning behind this?

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i agree with how ellison basically indirectly implied that women were more seen  as background characters and were more seen as objects. they were important and still played a big role but weren't respected like they did

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The symbol of the nurse very clearly reflects the idea that women were genuinely involved in health and minimal labor jobs. The brief mention of this character helps connect the story with the current time frame. I think AJ's comment of "women were treated as background figures" is very true. The lack of women in his stories is interpreted as the lack of women's roles in society. Many of societal norms surrounding women were created for men to keep control over America. Therefore the women were mainly housewives and caregivers.

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I thinks Ellas point about how the women in the story were kind of invisible and sometimes seen as less than or even abused in the stories. Aj uses a strong point about how women were seen as background figures and only used to nature and care for their husbands and children.

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I liked Noah's comment about how the protagonist's "wheel would stop spinning" if Laura were to pass away. I think this connects back to the protagonist's fear that if he spun the wheel and didn't win the money, it would be his fault when Laura died.

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I liked Annabelle's comment about how women are not significant characters to each story, but they have minor roles that show the gender roles during that time period. Women were typical helpers, such as the nurse. I also agreed with Ella's comment about how the women were seen as objects and being silences. During this time especially, women were only seen as objects and not as people. Relating to Ellisons childhood, he cares a lot for his mom, so in his novels even though they are minor characters, the women that are helping could be some form of a representation of his mom. Even thought women were not appreciated, Ellison had a small part of his story show that the women were more than just objects, but he also showed how they were being treated during this time period. I agree with Noahs comment about even though Ellison does not give them important speaking roles, which makes me think they have important roles as symbols of something bigger to the whole story. I liked Annabelle's question about how the Black Ball would be a different story if it was a mother and son rather than a father and son. The father gives his son and instructions and is more orderly, while a mother would be more nurturing to the son and let him be emotional. The stereotypical roles of a father were shown in this story.

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I agree with Ella's quote from Invisible Man saying that women are dolls and aren't the most crucial role and have no dialogue, but they play essential roles in each story of Ellison because they show the story Ellison tries to tell in each of his writings

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Relating to Ellas point of the absence of women in Ellisons stories, I feel this could be because of his personal life. His mother died when he was writing these stories. The lack of women figures in his stories may have to do with the feelings he was experiencing at the time of his mothers death.
AJ also has a good point of saying that women at this time were seen as background characters, in real life and in fiction.

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I agree with Shae's comment about how the main character had a hard time accepting that he had control over his future.

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Sona's analogy of the protagonist using multiple bingo cards to level the playing field because he needs to due to always being behind in society was super interesting. If Ellison did this on purpose, it was a really strong analogy that is hard to see, but once seen it's super interesting to think about.

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I agree with Whitney's comment about fate and I think it is interesting to view fate as a comparison with fortune in this story. There is a lot of chance that he is leaving in the button when he holds it down and he is just wishing to have control and power over that fate. In the end, he lost and fate overtook the fortune.

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I would've liked to see more discussion of Nature vs. Nurture. It got talked about slightly near the end, but I believe that that is a very important factor in discovering the psychological background of a person. The way that Ellison was brought up as a child is very important, but so is the color of his skin which he was born with. It would have been a good debate to see which of these qualities made more of a difference in his life.

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I like how Shea talked about how the man was sitting in the movie theatre and related that to him watching his life go by because he feels that he has no control over what happens and is basically taking a backseat to his own life. When I was reading this I made this same correlation.

I like how Whitney brought up how being black and trying to beat fate is a real thing because everyday you have to face disadvantages that you have no control over. It seems like your fate has already been decided for you and you can defy it.

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I agree with Whitney's analysis of the button in the bingo story. If the narrator doesn't let go of the button, he can't lose the prize money. I also like Shea's idea of the character not having control, as if he is watching a movie. The movie part of the story confused me at first, but this makes much more sense.

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I like how Carson brought up the toy metaphor that we witness multiple times throughout the story. I believe that Ellisons use of metaphors makes the story feel more real because we can picture what he is talking about. Whether it is the black ball or the toy truck, Ellison uses these to bring his story together.

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I agree with everyone saying that Ralph Ellison is essentially subconsciously writing a part of his childhood experiences into "The Black Ball" of this young child who is not really understanding the racism in the world that he had faced as a child and he himself did not understand at that time. He is reflecting on his own childhood experiences and finding a new way to explain them in this story. Whitney made a good point of saying his stories have a sense of no control because during Ellison's childhood he did not have any control over what was happening around him. His stories also have a theme of isolation or being exiled because of a person's race. Sona made a good point about the main character in King of the Bingo Game about how he was playing with multiple bingo cards while everyone else was playing with one because he had to level the playing field. It shows how African Americans have a disadvantage in their daily lives and this was one way for Ellison to represent that in this story. I liked the connection that Ruby made about the man in King of the Bingo Game trying to save his wife is like Ellison wanting to save his mom because during his childhood he worked many jobs to help his mom.

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I like where Sona highlighted where Ellison talks about how his son can play with his ball without knowing the rules and that he will tell him the rules later saying that he's already playing with the ball but he only sees the ball (world) on the surface and doesn't understand how complex the ball game is

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I think the traumatic past of Ellison that Sona mentioned has a lot to do with the way Ellison writes his stories. His troubled past put a dark filter over his life and not having a father figure growing up affected his upbringing. His father never got the chance to teach him important life lessons which left Ralph more naive to what he needed to do and how he needed to behave.

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I like Ruby's connection between the father-son relationship in The Black Ball and Ellison's relationship with his father in real life. I believe that Ellison's father dying was a big impact on his literature. When the father in The Black Ball "decided not to punish (his son)," for being in the front yard depicts him as a caring father, which is something that Ellison wasn't able to have.

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I think it's interesting to relate the dad and sons conversation in the story to one that still occurs today with Black parents and their children. Knowledge of the past racism occurring in the country is important to be aware of now, especially in situations dealing with law enforcement. The father in the story brings attention to the fact that one day his son will have to deal with the same racism that he had faced, this feels similar to situations in todays time. When we see an act of racism in today's world, whether on the news or in person, the word is spread and used to teach others about the violence of racism and how to deal with it. A lot of the time this is seen through that same parent and child conversation.

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Ruby's point about Ellison using this story to explain something his dad never got the chance to teach him is both connected to the historical context and Psychological lens.  Because Ellison's father died when he was very young, his dad never taught him some of the necessary lessons that Black kids needed when they were growing up in the early 1900s.  During this racist period, black kids could get in trouble for practically  anything and the meaning behind The Black Ball is that the children will come upon a time in which their situation is impossible to get out of.

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I think the point about not choosing the advantages and disadvantages you are given was interesting, and summed up one of the essential meaning of the novel. The narrator did have a challenging upbringing, with the passing of his parents, and discrimination, which ultimately lead him to lack skills that a father figure could have taught him.

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All group members' take on the connection between the protagonists' past experiences and their current situations was very strong. Due to racism that was prevalent in the early 1900s, many black people developed distrust toward white people which can be seen in "The Black Ball." Throughout John's life, he always experienced racism from white people so he quickly didn't trust a presumably non-racist white man that was trying to help.

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I like shea's connection of the stories to one of his later stories the invisible man. i think both the invisible man and the bingo game share the theme of disadvantage. this is shown in how in the invisible man to get to even speak to the crowd he has to fight but even in the very end he doesn't get the reward. In the bingo game the main character tries to remedy the disadvantage he sees in his life by playing bingo with multiple cards