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Start your experience at a community college. 

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Start your experience at a community college. 

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Are not sure about their major/academic field.
B. Would like to save money and accrue less student loans.
C. Only need an Associates Degree for career choice. [Some of these include: IT support, Administration, Occupational Therapy Assistant, or Business*]
D. Looking to obtain short-term certification including: Certified Nurse Assistant, Medical Assistant, Phlebotomy, or Paralegal.
E. Need to stay close to home or have other obligations that do not allow for them to attend a full-time college curriculum.
F. Need to fulfill pre-requisite courses before admittance into a 4-year college.
*Many business fields will require a Bachelors or Masters level education.
For more information, review the video which will provide several more pros and cons for enrolling in community college.

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You probably didn't even know that was a thing! Well, it is and right now there are only 7 colleges in the United States that fall under this category in 6 different states.
This is an ideal choice for students who:
A. Are looking to gain work related experience that also helps to pay for college tuition costs.
B. Would like to save money and accrue less student loans as well as receive a free college education.
C. Learn how to balance study, community service, and work.
D. Looking to cultivate a strong work ethic.
E. Would like to leave college with a plethora of real world experience.
The video below is a snapshot of what to expect from a work college:

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Work-Learning-Service at Warren Wilson College

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Gain some work experience by finding a job.

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Gain some work experience by finding a job.

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Want to save money for college or vocational/trade school.
B. Looking to discover the world of work in order to narrow down possible vocational choices for the future.
C. Obtain immediate financial freedom- possibly move out on your own or help out the family!
D. Have a chance to reinvent yourself. Take some time to figure out who you are, your interests, and strengths.
E. Obtain tuition assistance.  Some employers offer to pay some or all of college tuition as part of a benefit package.
While many graduates will look to the service industry or retail for entry-level experience, here is an article highlighting  highest paying jobs for those with a high school diploma:

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The typical college graduate in the United States makes roughly $23,000 more a year than the typical high school graduate. While a college degree generally qualifies workers for higher-paying jobs, there are a number of lucrative positions that require no more than a high school diploma.

To identify the highest-paying jobs for high school graduates, 24/7 Wall St. reviewed occupational data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Of the 150 jobs reviewed that require just a high school education, 13 have median annual salaries higher than $60,000.

Some of the highest paying jobs that do not require a college degree still often require some training beyond high school. For example, before elevator installers and repairers can earn their ample salary ― the median is more than $80,000 ― nearly all must complete an apprenticeship program that typically lasts four years.

In place of a college education, other high-paying jobs require related work experience. Of the 13 jobs that do not require a bachelor's degree and have a median pay of more than $60,000, only three are truly entry-level positions that require no experience or apprenticeships. For example, gaming managers often work for years as a dealer or slot supervisor before they are promoted to run the casino floor. The typical dealer earns $19,000 a year, less than one-third the median salary of a gaming manager.

Jobs with low educational barriers to entry can still yield high salaries if they are dangerous and stressful. Dangers associated with boilermaking and elevator repair include risk of severe burns and other injuries such as bruises and broken bones associated with falls. Other jobs can be especially stressful and emotionally taxing. Detectives can spend much of their working lives around death and suffering. A majority of workers in other high-paying fields, including subway and streetcar operators, report dealing with angry and unpleasant people on a daily basis.

To determine the highest-paying jobs for high school graduates, 24/7 Wall St. reviewed occupational data from the BLS. Occupations were considered if the job required a high school diploma or equivalent, as listed by the BLS. The highest-paying jobs were identified as the 13 jobs with a median annual wage greater than $60,000. Total employment, projected employment change, the share of workers in a given occupation that are self-employed, the typical work experience required by an occupation, and the typical on-the-job training needed for an occupation also came from the BLS.

These are the highest-paying jobs for high school graduates.

Boilermakers are usually high school graduates who have completed an apprenticeship. Despite the relatively low educational requirements, boilermakers earn relatively high salaries at more than $60,000 a year. This is likely because the job is not that appealing to many. Building boilers, or large closed vats that hold hot liquids and gases, can be both physically demanding and dangerous. Common injuries on-the-job include burns, cuts, and broken bones due to falls. Additionally, boiler construction and repair jobs are often contractual and could require extended travel and long stays at worksites far from home.

Demand for boilermakers is projected to increase by 9% by 2024, slightly faster than demand for all occupations.

A high school diploma is often the highest formal degree needed for jobs such as construction foreman, field supervisor, and site superintendent. Such jobs regularly pay more than $62,000 a year. It may be difficult to find work as a construction or material extraction supervisor directly out of high school, however. Workers in these occupations typically have years of on-the-job experience or have completed an apprenticeship program.

Employment growth for construction and extraction supervisors is projected to outpace overall job growth between 2014 and 2024. The BLS projects a 10.0% increase in employment across the field, a faster rate than the 6.5% total labor force projected growth.

Public transportation is a popular and practical option for many people living in major urban centers. Cities such as Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and Washington D.C. have extensive public transit networks that each serve tens of millions of riders a year. Operating those public transit systems requires little more than a high school diploma and typically pays more than $62,000 a year.

While such jobs are often routine in nature, they can also be stressful. Subway and streetcar operators may be responsible for directing emergency evacuations, and a majority of workers in the field report dealing with unpleasant or angry people on a daily basis.

Supervisors of mechanics, installers, and repairers need to be able to manage, coordinate, and think critically. Job titles in the field include facilities manager, electrical foreman, and maintenance supervisor. While it takes a certain skill set to be effective in these jobs, it does not necessarily require formal education beyond high school. Despite the low educational barrier to entry, the typical worker in the field earns $63,010 a year, far more than than the $27,809 a year the typical worker with no more than a high school diploma earns.

The typical farmer, rancher, and agricultural manager earns $64,170 a year. The different job titles often indicate different work places. While farmers and ranchers tend to own their own small family farms, agricultural managers mostly supervise work at larger agricultural establishments for companies or farmers. Similarly, while farmers are involved in all aspects of crop and livestock production, managers hire workers to carry out most of the physical labor tasks. Farm revenues can be unpredictable and dependent on a number of factors, such as the weather, and often times the government may subsidize income to ensure farmers earn a fair wage.

Most farmers and ranchers have some experience as a farmhand before coming into the position. While the job tends to require just a high school diploma, many universities offer postsecondary degrees in farm and land management.

The typical gaming manager earns $68,380 a year, more than any other worker in gaming services such as dealers or slot supervisors. Gaming managers are responsible for ensuring that the casino floor runs smoothly, walking table to table and addressing any complaints from customers that may arise. They also keep an eye out for potential cheaters and make sure that all customers and employees are following the establishment's rules.

Gaming managers are typically promoted from lower positions in the casino after gaining a few years of experience. Las Vegas has the highest concentration of gaming managers of any metro area and offers them the highest salaries in the country.

Media and communication equipment workers mostly work in the motion picture and video industry. More than one-fourth of such workers live in the Los Angeles metro area, where the large film industry likely provides the most jobs. Film work can be inconsistent, which is one reason for the high minimum pay many entertainment-related workers unions require for their members. Many media and communication equipment jobs require workers to be in such unions, like the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees. Jobs may include crew positions such as boom operator, grip, gaffer, with the more specialized positions paying higher salaries. The typical media and communication equipment worker earns $70,590 a year, one of the highest salaries of any occupation that requires just a high school diploma.

A majority of postmasters and mail superintendents have no more than a high school diploma in the way of formal education. While there is a low educational barrier to entry, postmasters need to have some on-the-job experience as well as management skills, organizational skills, and a knowledge of business administration. Those in such positions are relatively well compensated. A typical postmaster or mail superintendent makes more than $70,000 a year, more than all but five other jobs with similarly low formal education requirements.

However, the job may not be a viable option for high school graduates in the near future. The BLS projects a 26.2% decline in demand for postmasters and mail superintendents between 2014 and 2024.

Transportation inspectors are responsible for conducting safety inspections for all modes of transportation, including flight and rail. The typical transportation inspector earns $70,820, more than all but just four other positions that require only a high school education. Nearly half of all transportation inspectors work for the government, and about a third work in the private transportation and warehousing industry.

Job outlook for the profession is somewhat less promising than the job market as a whole. Despite expectations that the trucking industry will grow in the coming years, the BLS projects that the number of transportation inspectors will grow by just 1.2% in the decade ending in 2024, far slower than the overall projected labor market growth.

The typical first-line supervisor of non-retail sales workers, which includes positions such as sales manager, branch manager, and sales supervisor, earns $72,300 a year. Such managers are responsible for supervising sales employees, and may also carry out budgeting, accounting, and personnel duties. While the job tends to require just a high school diploma, sales managers often work their way up from lower positions. Some first-line sales supervising jobs require up to five years of experience in a related position.

Many first-line supervisors may run their own businesses. More than 40% of such workers are self employed, one of the largest shares of any profession.

While police officers actively fight crime and enforce the law, detectives or criminal investigators are responsible for investigating crime scenes, gathering evidence, and compiling facts. While it is not necessary for a detective to have formal schooling past high school, the job is often contingent on successful completion of a training academy. Detective salaries tend to be far higher than nearly every other job with similar educational requirements. The typical detective earns more than $77,000 a year.

High salaries in the profession are due largely to the stresses and dangers associated with the job. Working in crime scenes often means working in close proximity to death and suffering.

While a college education is not a prerequisite to working as an elevator installer and repairer, most who work in the field have completed an apprenticeship. The job is one of only two in the United States where the typical person with no more than a high school diploma can earn more than $80,000 a year.

Like many high-paying jobs with a low minimum educational attainment threshold, working as an elevator installer can be especially difficult and dangerous. Workers often spend long hours in tightly enclosed areas such as elevator shafts and are susceptible to electrical burns, falls, and muscle strain. Because of the possibility of emergency repairs, elevator installers can be on call 24 hours a day.

Transportation, storage, and distribution managers can reasonably expect to earn more than $86,500 a year, the highest annual salary of any job that does not require formal education past high school. There are a range of job titles in the field, including distribution manager, shipping supervisor, warehouse manager, and transportation director. Job responsibilities typically include adhering to budgets, supervising workers, and directing dispatching and routing operations.

Demand for these workers is projected to grow at a slower rate than demand across all fields. Consequently, those with only a high school diploma may find it increasingly difficult to find work in the field.

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Highest Paying Jobs For High School Graduates

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The typical college graduate in the United States makes roughly $23,000 more a year than the typical high school graduate. While a college degree generally qualifies workers for higher-paying jobs, there are a number of lucrative positions that require no more than a high school diploma.

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Learn a trade by enrolling in a vocational/trade school.

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Learn a trade by enrolling in a vocational/trade school.

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Want to receive education in a highly skilled field with potential for lucrative pay.
B. Are interested in transferring some of that education into a 4-year college degree program.
C. Need to prepare for skilled trade exams for industries such as electrical, plumbing, or contracting.
D. Interested in learning about careers in computer aided drafting (CAD), culinary,  heating ventiliation and air conditioning (HVAC), Information Technology (IT), or criminal justice.
E. Looking for a career that is in high demand with low potential for outsourcing.
Check out the Podcast below to hear about why you should consider a trades career instead:

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In America, there's an assumption that the most meaningful careers are found in office buildings, among those taking part in the information economy rather than in the nitty gritty of blue collar trades. To be eligible for these desirable white collar jobs, you need to take out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans so you can go to college for 4 years to get a degree. The sacrifice is always worth it though, or so we're told.

My guest today on the show has made a career of questioning this narrative. In fact, he argues that our obsession with 4-year colleges and white collar work, to the denigration of the blue collar kind, has left us economically and spiritually poorer both on the individual and national level. His name is Mike Rowe.

You might have seen his popular show Dirty Jobs. Since his time as a TV host, he's become an ardent advocate for trade work through his foundation mikeroweWORKS.

Today on the show, Mike and I discuss where the idea for Dirty Jobs came from and why a show about blue collar workers became a surprise hit. We then explore why we devalue blue collar work, the societal and individual consequences of that devaluation, and what Mike is doing to make pursuing vocational and trade work cool and viable again.

If you're a young man trying to figure out if college and an office job is right for you, or if you're a guy in a dead end office job looking for an alternative, Mike's going to make a strong case for why you should consider putting on a hard hat and getting your hands dirty.

Show Highlights

Mike's experience hosting Dirty Jobs

How sheep castration changed everything for Mike

The reality of how enlightenment often happens

How Mike became disconnected from how the world works

Why manual labor and the trades aren't seen as aspirational

How higher education became the default next step for high school graduates

The unfortunate stereotypes and pop culture images attached to trade workers

The skills gap in the workforce

Why people are unhappy in their jobs, and what really makes for career enjoyment

The difference between finding your passion and being passionate about what you do

Why "follow your passion" is the worst advice that can possibly be given

The societal consequences of the skills gap

The challenges faced in addressing our country's aging infrastructure (and aging trade workers)

The skills and trades that are most needed today

What keeps people from entering into the trades

The foundation that Mike started to promote blue collar work

Resources/People/Articles Mentioned in Podcast

Connect With Mike Rowe
Mike on Twitter Mike on Facebook Mike's website Mike's blog
Listen to the Podcast! (And don't forget to leave us a review!)
Listen to the episode on a separate page. Download this episode. Subscribe to the podcast in the media player of your choice.
Podcast Sponsors

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Read the Transcript

Brett McKay: Welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. Well, in America, there's an assumption that the most meaningful careers are found in office buildings, among those taking part in the information economy, rather than the nitty-gritty of blue-collar trades. And to be eligible for these desirable white-collar jobs, you need to take out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans so you can go to college for four years to get a degree. The sacrifice is always worth it, though, or so we're told.

My guest today on the show has made a career of questioning this narrative. In fact, he argues that our obsession with college education and white-collar work, to the denigration of blue-collar kind, has left us economically and spiritually poorer, both on the individual and national level. His name is Mike Rowe. You might have seen his popular show, Dirty Jobs. Since his time as a TV host, he's become an ardent advocate of trade work through his foundation, mikeroweWORKS.

Today on the show, Mike and I discuss where the idea of Dirty Jobs came from and why this show about blue-collar workers became a surprise national hit. We then explore why we devalue blue-collar work, the societal and individual consequences of that devaluation, and what Mike is doing to make pursuing vocational and trade work cool and viable again. If you're a young man trying to figure out if college and an office job is right for you, or if you're a guy in a dead-end office job looking for an alternative, Mike is going to make a strong case on why you should consider putting on a hard hat and getting your hands dirty. After the show is over, check out the show notes at aom.is/rowe, where you can find links to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic.

Mike Rowe, welcome to the show.

Mike Rowe: Thanks for having me, guys. Always a pleasure.

Brett McKay: Well, a big fan of your work with Dirty Jobs, and plus the work you're doing now, after Dirty Jobs, promoting the trades, being an advocate for that. And I've got to say, your TED Talk about sheep castration holds a dear place in my heart, because my grandfather, who just passed away last year, 101, when he was in high school, he was a shepherd, and in his memoirs, he goes into detail about sheep castration. And I remember when I saw that episode, when you put your teeth on a sheep's testicles, I was like, "I know that, I know how to do that because of Grandpa."

Mike Rowe: You know how few people have actually uttered that sentence in the history of time? I mean, it's just ... Dirty Jobs was so great in the sense that no two days were ever the same, but that particular day ... Yeah, you know, the sheep, the testicles, the cameras, and off you go. Yeah, that episode changed everything, really, looking back on it. It was something the network didn't want to put on the air, it was something people were completely freaked out about, it was something we had gone out of our way to get permission to do. I mean, I called all the proper acronyms, I called the Humane Society, I called PETA. They told me how it was supposed to work, and when I got there, of course, it was a totally different deal. And we just learned so many things in that episode that it completely changed the direction of the show, and to some extent, my own career. It's amazing what'll happen when you, you know, bite the balls off a sheep.

Brett McKay: How did it change the direction of the show, after you did that?

Mike Rowe: Well, in a couple of ways. You have to understand, first of all, Dirty Jobs was such an anomaly. It never was supposed to be a hit, much less even on the air. We snuck onto the air in 2003, at a time when there was really no other shows about work anywhere, and the network was kind of horrified, to be honest, by the number of people who liked it, because it didn't really fit with their brand, or at least what their notion of what the brand was at the time. So there was a lot of cognitive dissonance about the show, and so we were constantly at odds. I was always trying to push the envelope a little bit within that work, and argue for a completely transparent look at whatever the job at hand was.

So there was just a lot of ... There were files, Brett, that already existed on me, files from OSHA, from the Humane Society, from PETA, from the FBI. I mean, there's an army of angry acronyms that used to watch the show and complain about things that they saw on TV that didn't comport entirely with their worldview. So when I told my boss that I was going to be castrating sheep, she said, "For God's sakes, Michael" ... Her name is Gena, Gena McCarthy. She said, "For God's sakes, please make sure we do this right." So I called the proper authorities to tell them what I was going to do, and they explained that you would take rubber bands and put them over the testicles of the sheep, and that would retard the flow of blood, and eventually, the testicles would fall off. And I thought, "Well, that's pretty weird, but it'll be great TV."

And of course, when we went there, there were no rubber bands. It was just a rancher and his wife, and a penknife, and a scrotum that was quickly sliced open, two testicles were exposed, and this guy started literally biting the balls out of the scrotum of sheep, and spitting them into the bucket that I was holding. And it was just so shocking, because it was so unexpected, because I'd done all my homework, you know? I knew how we were supposed to do it, so ... My TED Talk, which, by the way, I had no idea I was giving one until about 20 minutes before I gave it, but ... My TED Talk was really an explanation of that episode, and how you can get all the authorities to tell you precisely how you're supposed to do a thing, and still be completely dead wrong.

As brutal as it sounded, the sheep that we castrated with our teeth fared so much better than the ones that we used the rubber bands on, because ... You know, after Albert bit the balls off and spit them into my bucket, I was like, "Oh, hold on a minute, we can't do it this way, we have to do it the approved way," and so we did it the approved way, and then we had a chance to see the aftermath. And if you look at a baby lamb with a rubber band around its testicles next to another baby lamb who just had its testicles bitten off, the baby lamb with the testicles bitten off doesn't have a care in the world. There's very little blood, he's already forgotten about that which is gone, and he's prancing around like it's a new day. The one with the rubber band around his nuts, he limps around, and quivers, and sits in the corner in agony. It changed the direction of the show, and it changed the direction of my career, because it indicated perfectly that you can be absolutely right in terms of compliance, and still, somehow, manage to have your head completely up your own ass.

Brett McKay: You talk about peripeteia, that Greek concept, in the show.

Mike Rowe: Yeah, anagnorisis and peripeteia, sure. That's it.

Brett McKay: I'm wondering who ... I wonder who was the guy that figured out you bite the testicles off a sheep to castrate them. That was the best way to do it.

Mike Rowe: I shudder to think, like, the true etymology of that process, but I would imagine it simply evolved out of practicality. You know, if you're ... I'm sure your grandfather would've told you back in the day. You're not out in the field with a team of people; it's really just you, and sometimes one other set of hands. To properly apply the banding method, you need three people, and that's ... I mean, that's a lot of extra personnel. This method is quicker, it's less painful for the sheep. It's a hell of a lot weirder, admittedly, but primarily, it's more efficient. And in the end, one of the big lessons from Dirty Jobs was effectiveness is ultimately the thing that drives innovation. Conversely, and a little weirdly, not efficiency, but effectiveness, and we could probably do a whole hour on the difference between the two, but ... Bottom line, biting the balls off sheep is a lot more effective than the approved method.

Brett McKay: Yeah, so, I mean, you mentioned your mind shift changed after that moment. Before that, were you kind of following the "experts," quote-unquote, that, "Okay, this is the right way to do it, and I'm here to make sure ... This is how work should be done; when I don't see it, according to how the experts say it should be done, then something's wrong"? And so after that, you decided ... I guess your shift was, "Well, let's just see what the guys on the ground who are actually doing this, what they think is useful, and that's what we should go after."

Mike Rowe: You know, in hindsight, it's easy and tempting to always frame these conversations in terms of the exact moment of awareness. And I said that in my TED Talk, and it was true to a degree, but the real truth is, awareness, and understanding, and realizations, anagnorisis, peripeteia, enlightenment, that stuff is almost always more analogous to a frog in the boiling water, you know? It's things you realize over time. You have a moment of awareness, but it doesn't really take root until you have some proof that you can really put behind it, and that takes time.

So for me, the real peripatetic moment in my career happened in a sewer, before Dirty Jobs, when I was working at Evening Magazine, and I was working on a segment called "Somebody's Gotta Do It," and I kind of ... I didn't hate my career. In fact, I'd always kind of liked it. I'd been impersonating a host for 15 years, was more effective as a guest instead of a host. That realization happened when I was working with a sewer inspector, thanks to a rat, actually, who assaulted me and drove me headfirst into just a river of ... Again, another long story, but that's when I began to realize that personally, I could do better on camera as an apprentice as opposed to an expert, as a guest as opposed to a host.

So when I sold Dirty Jobs, I went into it with this understanding that I didn't want to do, or impersonate, a conventional host. In fact, my pitch to Discovery was "Look, you guys ... You guys need another expert like you need a hole in the head. I mean, what you need is a fan of the brand out in the world, doing things not on your behalf, but out of his own misplaced curiosity." That was the pitch for Dirty Jobs. When we started shooting it, what I learned again and again, over and over and over, was that just about everything I thought I knew about work had been ... Well, was wrong, honestly. I had become disconnected from a lot of the things that I'd grown up with.

You know, I had a lot of certainty growing up. My grandfather was a master electrician, and also a plumber, and a steamfitter, and a pipefitter, and a welder, and a guy who could build a house without a blueprint, who only went to the seventh grade. My connection to work as a kid was profound. I knew where our food came from, I knew where our energy came from, and I had a lot of direct lines between how things worked and how the working of things benefited me. By the time I was 43, after working for 15, 16 years in Hollywood, I'd forgotten most of that, or at least become disconnected from it, and so for me, on a very personal level, Dirty Jobs became a reminder of all of those disconnects, all of the things that I had taken for granted, from the lights coming on when we flick the switch to the crap going away when we flush the toilet. Those little miracles took on a larger significance for me thanks to that show, and I think maybe, hopefully, to the viewers as well.

So that's a long answer to your question, but peripatetic moments happen one on top of the next, and their effect is almost always exponential, so one day, you wake up, and you look back on all that stuff, and you realize, "Holy crap, that's the point where my thinking diverged. That's the point where my career went in a direction I didn't intend it to." And so you can look back, and you can retrofit things, and try and sound smarter than you are, but in truth, in the moment, you're just a guy biting the balls of sheep, trying to understand why everything you thought you knew about this process turned out to be completely upside down.

Brett McKay: Well, speaking of how your career went in a different direction than you thought it would go, since Dirty Jobs ended, you've become an advocate for making manual labor cool again. Started different foundations, we'll talk about that here in a bit, but let's talk about this: Why do you think manual labor is seen as uncool? Right? Most kids don't aspire to be a plumber, they aspire to be some, I don't know, social media influencer, or banker, or something. Why don't people want to go into the trades?

Mike Rowe: We're suspicious of anything that doesn't come with a playbook. We want a playbook. We want to know what a good job is, and the best way to figure out what a good job is ... Now, I don't subscribe to any of this, but ... And I'm not an expert, obviously, but I think ... I think what's going on right now in society is we have a lot of anxiety around education and vocation, and that anxiety primarily exists with parents, who are desperate not to screw their kids. There's also anxiety within the educational system from administrators and guidance counselors, who don't want to be accused of sending some kid down the wrong path. And of course, there's a lot of anxiety among kids themselves, because they're looking at the vast, unknown future of their careers and hoping not to ... At the same time, there's endless money available, and a lot of pressure to borrow it in order to go down what a lot of people have said is the best path for the most people.

If you put all of that stuff together, essentially, you've got a lot of anxious people saying, "Look, this is your best hope of being happy: Borrow the money, get a four-year degree, get out in the world, and get busy chasing your dream." I know I'm generalizing, but from what I've seen, that's the trope, that's the bromide, that's the platitude that informs so much of what passes as good advice today. Regarding why blue-collar work is not aspirational, I think the main reason is because parents are hardwired to want something better for their kids than they had. The problem is we don't know what "better" means, but we now know that we have to define something as subordinate.

So it gets a little wonky, but as theories go, I think it really comes down to, in the mid-'70s, we decided that college needed a big PR campaign, and we gave it one, and that PR campaign elevated the importance of a four-year degree, not just for its inherent benefit, but it elevated it at the expense of every other form of education. So the message that started to go out to high school kids was "If you don't do this, you're liable to wind up over here, turning a wrench," or doing something that you really don't want to do, some kind of vocational consolation prize.

So what we did was we separated higher education from all other forms of enlightenment. Then we attached a price tag to higher education that exponentially rocketed through the roof. That was in the mid-'70s. At the same time, pop culture started to portray traditional working vocations as subordinate. I mean, if there's a plumber, come on, he's 300 pounds with a giant butt crack. It's just the way we portray plumbers. We write books, you know, look at the best-selling books over the last couple of years. The 4-Hour Work Week is somewhere near the top. I'm friends with Tim Ferriss, I like his book, but the things we started to respond to were messages that said, "Hey, you can work less, and if you don't work less, then you're gonna be a sucker."

So pop culture, portrayals of work in the media, educational distinctions that are basically presented as a false choice, in my opinion, all combined to drive the cost of college through the roof - $1.3 trillion in student loans right now, as a result of this cookie-cutter approach to what a good education is - and on the other end, where does most of the opportunity exist today? Well, it's in the skills gap. It's 5.6 million available jobs right now that nobody seems to want, that are sitting there waiting to be filled. It's not a coincidence that 75% of those jobs don't require a four-year degree, but rather training for the very jobs that we're talking about right now. So, again, kind of a meandering answer, but the reason blue-collar jobs fell out of favor is because alternative education fell out of favor, it's because the people who do the kinds of work that we're talking about started being portrayed in a negative light, and here we are. The skills gap's not a mystery, it's just a reflection of what we value. So, too, is the cost of a four-year degree, in my opinion.

Brett McKay: Right, and the irony is this playbook that we've been pushing on our culture, I think it's just resulted in a lot of unhappiness. You have people with four-year degrees, up to their eyeballs in debt, working some office job that they hate, and barely making ends meet.

Mike Rowe: Yeah. Look, the hell of it is, you know, you ... Here's what happens to me that's always problematic. I'll do an interview like this, and everyone will more or less agree that there's a problem worth talking about, but what comes back over the net is "Mike is anti-college," and sometimes anti-education, and nothing could be further from the truth. The problem that you're describing happens because of money. It's not that a liberal-arts degree is bad. I've got one, and it serves me well, but I got mine in 1984, and it cost $12,000. Today, the same degree from the same school costs $85,000. So if you spend that kind of money, and borrow that kind of money, and wind up suddenly in a cubicle, doing something that, as it turns out, you really didn't want to do, how do you get off the road? You've already majored in your major, you've already borrowed the money, and now you've got to pay all that stuff off, and you don't really have the freedom or the flexibility to hit the reset button without, you know, punching out of the whole proposition with a giant pile of debt.

That's really what the problem is, and I feel badly for this generation, because they get a bad rap, in my opinion. Obviously, there's room for improvement everywhere, but, you know, we raised an entire generation of kids to believe that if they borrow the money, and if they get the degree, then they will get the job of their dreams, and then they will be happy. That entire proposition is fallacious, and you can see it on the faces of dissatisfied workers, not just in cubicles across the country, but in all kinds of jobs, because so many people have come out of our educational system convinced that the key to job satisfaction is finding the job that will satisfy you. And of all the lessons that came out of Dirty Jobs, I think the biggest one is the fact that that belief is completely and totally upside down.

Brett McKay: So don't follow your passion, that's bad advice.

Mike Rowe: I think it's bad advice, but I would never say "Don't be passionate about what you do." See, this is the ... The fun part of Dirty Jobs, once it really got its feet under it, and once it became a thing, was that it allowed me to look back honestly and question some of the advice that I'd gotten in my life, and I think a lot of other people have as well. "Follow your passion" is somewhere near the top, the worst advice ever given. It's right up there with "Work smart, not hard." But "Always follow your passion," the first time I saw it, it was written on a photo of a guy in a kayak, paddling on some lake with mist on the surface, and there were butterflies in the background, and maybe even a unicorn. It was just awful, you know, and under it, it just says, "Always follow your passion." And I'm just like, "What ... What ... What does that even mean?"

So on Dirty Jobs, the corollary was "Never follow your passion, but always, always bring it with you." Passion's too important to ignore, but it's too fickle to follow, and I just ... I think ... Look, if you really want to see what following your passion looks like, watch any of the first episodes of American Idol. Any of the seasons, episodes one through five, where you see tens of thousands of people, absolutely passionate about singing, right? Absolutely passionate about their artistry and their love of vocalizing. And they show up, and they audition, and it's incredible to me that so many people can't sing; that's obvious. What's incredible is that these 18, 19, 20-year-old people are realizing for the first time in their life - the first time in their life - that they can't sing.

That's amazing to me, and that disconnect ... I mean, you can see it in their faces when they realize, this is the first time somebody told them they're no good at a thing that they like. And so it's a great truth that we used to teach early on, but now a lot of people don't find out until it's very, very, very late in their career. But the reality is, it's entirely possible to be very passionate about something that you suck at, and that's useful, especially if you're going to attach money to your pursuit.

So if you're going to go out into the world to try and make a living, you know, the big lesson on Dirty Jobs, time and time again, the people I met all said the same thing: "I didn't go looking to be a septic tank cleaner, I went looking for an opportunity, and that started by watching where everybody else was heading, and going in the other direction. Then I bought a septic tank cleaning truck, and then I hired three people. Then I bought another truck, and then another truck after that. Now I've got 12 people, we clean septic tanks, I'm a millionaire, I've got a summer house and a margarita machine next to my pool. Yes, I clean septic tanks, and I'm passionate about my life and my career, but I didn't start ... I didn't get here by sitting down one day when I was 18 years old and going, 'Okay, what is going to make me happy? This will make me happy; therefore, I'm going to go get that, and I'm not going to be happy until I do.'"

Look, we do the same thing with romance, right? Same exact thing. Happiness vis-à-vis romance today requires us to find our soulmate. Well, where's our soulmate? Depends who you ask, you know? Maybe she's on Match, maybe he's on Tinder, maybe it's eHarmony, maybe it's in the bar down the street that ... You know? It just seems like a tough way to go, if your romantic happiness is going to be entirely contingent upon your ability to find the one other person walking around on the planet who you were meant to be with. It's no less nuts, in my view, to approach the wide world of work and say, "Okay, all this opportunity's out there, but the one that's going to make me happy, that's the one I gotta find, and then I can be happy." We just make it pretty hard for ourselves, I think, and the dirty jobbers I met did not fall victim to that.

Brett McKay: We've had a guest on the show, guy named Cal Newport. He wrote a book, So Good They Can't Ignore You, and he agrees, following your passion is terrible advice. He says, "Passion comes whenever you get really good at a job, and you see that you're effective in the world, and that you provide value." That's when you start feeling passionate about the job, that's when you start feeling satisfaction with your job, is when you see that, but it's not chasing your passion.

Mike Rowe: Yeah, good for him. I couldn't agree more. Gladwell put it, I thought, pretty well too. A couple of books ago, he talked about "meaningful work." Meaningful work is the thing that ultimately will lead to satisfaction faster than anything else. But again, the trick is, there is no book out there called Meaningful Work, right? But we act as though there is. We're telling our kids today that this work over here is meaningful and important and worth your time; this work over here is not. Why we do that is really, I think, one of the great questions. I've never heard it answered properly. I've tried to, but I usually just ramble on into incoherence, because it's almost unknowable, but we can't help ourselves.

As a society, as a culture, as parents, as teachers, we simply can't help but somehow prioritize jobs into this jacked-up ranking system that is completely and totally counterintuitive to the result we want. You can Google "100 top jobs," and you'll have thousands of pages, thousands of pages filled with hundreds and hundreds of surveys about what the best jobs are. You can do the same thing with schools. Every year, every year, every major publication rolls out the top colleges in the country and the top jobs in the country. And you'll never find a trade school on that list, and you'll never find the jobs that are begging to be filled right now on that list. We just double down on the worst odds in the world, and we make it really, really hard for kids to feel excited about learning a skill.

That's why we do what we do in this foundation thing. If you train somebody to weld, well, then you can start working in nine months at 60 grand. Two years later, you can easily be making six figures. But beyond that, the business of mastering a trade opens an entire set of doors that most people didn't even know existed, and so "way leads on to way," as the poet said, and before you know it, you'll find meaning in your work, whatever the work is.

Brett McKay: Let's talk about some of the big-picture societal consequences of this skill gap you talked about. The skill gap is there's jobs that are available, ready for workers; there just isn't anyone there to take them, because they don't have the appropriate skills. I mean, how does that affect us as a country, on a high level?

Mike Rowe: Well, it's a micro/macro thing. So, look, on a micro level, no pun intended, its consequences are devastating. For an individual who goes down the wrong road simply because he or she didn't know other opportunities were available, that, to me, is the very definition of a tragedy. I mean, Aristotle said a tragedy was that moment in the narrative where the protagonist comes face to face with the unescapable truth of their own identity, and when you realize that your identity was based on the pursuit of a thing that you never really cared for or understood, at the expense of all the other opportunities that are out there, that really is nothing short of a personal micro tragedy.

To answer your question, on a macro level, I think the skills gap ... Not to overstate it, but I think it's a matter of national security. A balanced workforce is kind of like a coin, you know? Each side, heads and tails, is equally important. We don't have a balanced workforce today, and the most obvious ramification of that is supply and demand. Call a plumber with a plumbing emergency right now. Tell me how long it takes for him to get there - or her - and tell me how much it costs. I guarantee you the first number - how long does it take him or her to get there - is going to be a lot larger than it was 10 years ago, and the second number - how much does it cost - that's going to be a lot larger too. So the cost of taking care of our infrastructure is going through the roof: plumbing, electric, heating, air conditioning.

I'm talking about our personal infrastructures in our homes, but the same thing is happening on a macro level, and I think, when I look at the current administration's desire to invest a trillion dollars in infrastructure repair, I say the same thing I did eight years ago, when the last guy promised three million shovel-ready jobs in 2008. I remember, I wrote a letter to the president back then, and I said, "Look, I'm pulling for you, good luck. I've got this foundation; if I can help, I will. But the short version from my position is this: If you're saying there's three million shovel-ready jobs, then you have to understand that you're talking to a country that really doesn't admire the business of picking up a shovel. You just have to understand that, and you have to hit the PR element of your program squarely on the head."

Eight years later, I said the same thing to the current guy. If you're going to spend a trillion dollars to open up infrastructure repair, you have to ... You surely know that we do not have a workforce standing by that's trained to do work. It's going to take years of training people and getting them the skills that they need, and that's not going to happen until or unless we celebrate these opportunities for what they are. So on a national level, the skills gap is nothing less than a matter of national security.

5.6 million jobs open right now, and Brett, no one talks about them, and we don't talk about them because it's ... Well, it's unflattering. The existence of all of that opportunity in a country like this, it doesn't speak well of us. But more to the point, it contradicts the prevailing narrative, and the prevailing narrative says if we bring jobs to the country, we're going to put more people to work. I'm not saying that's not true - it is, it is true - but it's not a panacea, and it's not an action for which there's an equal or opposite reaction. Our current narrative, in my opinion, basically says that the more opportunity we can create, the more people will go back to work. It's not untrue, but it's not completely true, because the existence of this skills gap proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the existence of opportunity alone is not enough to get everybody working.

So those two narratives collide, and honestly, I've never seen anybody on TV reconcile it in a persuasive way. How do you reconcile 60, 70 million people out of the workforce who could be working, with millions and millions of open jobs that nobody's excited about doing? Whatever your answer is is probably going to get sucked into some polemic, because everything is political today, and that it's going to get drowned out. So the skills gap continues to exist, because we keep lending money we don't have to kids who are never going to be able to pay it back, to encourage them to get a four-year degree which, while valuable, does not train them to do the jobs that actually exist.

Brett McKay: And I imagine the skills gap is only going to get bigger as baby boomers start to retire, these guys who own plumbing shops or carpentry shops. There's no one else there to replace them.

Mike Rowe: There's going to be a reckoning, and much like the peripeteia we were talking about before, it's not going to happen overnight, it's not going to be the flick of a switch. Right now, you can see it in different states manifesting in different ways. I worked for years on a campaign in Alabama called Go Build Alabama, which was motivated primarily by the construction industry down there, who is in a full-on panic. A full-on panic. The average skilled tradesman in Alabama is north of 55, and these aren't jobs you do into your 80s. These guys are going to retire, and there is no one there, there is no one standing by, there's no new generation of trained apprentices waiting to step in.

The skills gap in Idaho is different. They've got a different situation up there, because they actually export a lot of materials all over the world that people really aren't up to speed on, and over the next 15 years, the billions of dollars of opportunity that exists for manufacturing is literally sitting right there, and that state has a pretty bad record of kids coming out of college ... Sorry, out of high school, and going into any kind of additional training, college or otherwise. So they're looking very specifically at a massive chunk of opportunity that they're going to lose if they don't get some kind of giant training program in place, where people can get the skills that are so clearly going to be needed in the next couple of years.

Georgia has another challenge, Arizona has a different challenge, Iowa has a different challenge. Some of these are fundamentally agrarian challenges; other are manufacturing. It's different in different geographies in the country, so that's why it's kind of hard to say anything smart that sums the whole thing up, and I'd be suspicious, honestly, of anyone who tries. But in a very general way, the skills gap manifests in different ways in different places, but in all cases, the first step of the remedy is the same: We have to make a more persuasive case for the opportunities that actually exist, and the educational alternatives that will train people for those opportunities.

If we don't do that as a society ... Back to your prior question, you know, what's the real threat on a macro level? If we can't persuade the majority of Americans to be suitably gobsmacked by the miracle of affordable electricity, smooth roads and runways, modern plumbing, all the things that make civilized life possible, if we no longer give a damn about those things, then I don't know how to fix the problem, because it has to start with a larger shared collective appreciation for the society that we have. If we don't have that, then we're just going to have to slip a little bit further down before we hit bottom, and somebody slaps us upside the head.

Brett McKay: So yeah, different geographical locations have different demands for different types of blue-collar jobs, so it's hard to say ... I mean, I guess, are there professions that, overall, the country needs more of? Like welding, is there a big skills gap there?

Mike Rowe: I'd put it somewhere near the top, to tell you the truth. We've had about 600, maybe 800 people come through my little foundation, and welding is somewhere near the top of the list of the skill that we're most often asked to help.

Brett McKay: Well, here's a question. One reason I've heard people say, "Oh, I'm not gonna go into the trades" is, like, well, it doesn't pay as well as, say, a white-collar job, being an attorney, or being a business manager. What's the pay like for these blue-collar trades?

Mike Rowe: Well, look, the actuarial charts, the statistical charts, they'll give you an idea, factoring in millions of people in all different areas. And I've seen most of that, and honestly, my feeling is "So what?" How is it ... I mean, a writer in Spokane versus a writer in Tallahassee, there's absolutely no reason to assume one is going to be making anything similar to the other. A welder in Dakota right now is going to be making more money than a welder somewhere else, guaranteed. So the geographical impact on blue-collar wages, I do think, is real - more real, maybe, than on white-collar - but again, I don't know what to conclude from that, in a world where you're either willing to relocate or you're not, and I think that applies equally to both blue- and white-collar.

I don't know when it happened, this aversion to mobility. I mean, the country fundamentally formed because people were willing to go from one coast to the other. They'd go wherever the opportunity was. We were a very transient people. We've become really sedentary. You know, I'm amazed, personally, when I sit down and talk to people who are resistant to exploring a career in the blue-collar trades, or in the construction trades, the first thing they'll say is "Well, the money's not as good." And I can say, "Okay, look. If I can show you where the money's better, and how the money's better, will you give it a shot?" And they'll say, "Sure," and then I'll walk them through.

I mean, look, I can take the same statistics that show a four-year degree is always better, and I can conclude a completely different conclusion. It's easy to manipulate the numbers. But it never really comes down to that. What it comes down to next is people are like, "Well, tell me again where I have to go?" And that's almost always where it falls apart. We're just ... We want the job that we've identified that will make us happy, we want that job at the money that we believe is fair, and we want that job in the ZIP code where we currently live. And those three things are primarily what I run into most often with people who are resistant to at least looking at the opportunities as they exist today. I'm not sure I answered your question, because it-

Brett McKay: You did. We had an economist on our podcast, Tyler Cowen, who just published a book called The Complacent Class, and he talks about how we've become less mobile in our country. People just want to stay put. Yeah, you're right, we used to go travel the country for opportunities; we no longer do that anymore. And he makes all these arguments that it's hurting the economy, but it's also causing us to become more segregated, and a lot of downstream effects of us becoming less mobile. So if you haven't checked that book out, check it out. It's really interesting.

Mike Rowe: What's it called again?

Brett McKay: The Complacent Class.

Mike Rowe: I'm writing it down right now. It reminds me of a thing ... There used to be this thing called The Popcorn Report. Woman called herself "Faith Popcorn." This was back in the '80s, but she talked about it in terms of our unwillingness, or our growing unwillingness to even venture out of our own homes. And she was looking at the coming technology and predicting that we'd have something ... She called it "cocooning," where we would just, more and more and more, build our homes in a way that allows us to stay in them more and more. And then, of course, with delivery services, and better technology, better TVs, everything else, cocooning turned into something she called "burrowing." So we just kind of doubled down on the whole notion of a cocoon, and so essentially, we're here now.

We're more connected than we've ever been, thanks to the kind of technology we're using right now, and social media, but we're more disconnected than we've ever been as a result, and less mobile at the same time. I'm not sure what's next. Where do you go after burrowing? Probably like the ... You're going to wind up in an Altered States tank, like William Hurt, you know? We're just going to be there, suspended in some kind of gooey animation, completely connected and mentally fulfilled, but ... It's the atrophy that's going to kill us in the end.

Brett McKay: Besides the blue-collar trades, are there other trades where we're seeing a skills gap? Because I can think of one off the top of my head, is tailoring. My tailor, he's this 96-year-old Polish immigrant, he survived the Holocaust, he's here in town, and I go like, "Why are you still working?" And he says, like, "There's no one else to do the work. I can't retire." He says, "Yeah, no one wants to go into tailoring or learn a trade." And the thing is, the money's good. Like, he's expensive, and he can be expensive, because he's the only one who can do what he does really well.

Mike Rowe: Yeah, look, there's a tension between what I do, what I want, and what I hope for. I'm a fan of the guy you just described, and I'm a fan of the plumbers and the electricians and the pipefitters, and all the people that I rely on. I want them to do well, but at the same time, I'm a consumer, and so when my toilet explodes, when my engine just falls out of the car, how much do I want to pay? Right? So this is where labor and work sort of diverge, you know, they've come to mean different things. I love the fact that your 96-year-old Polish tailor is still making a great living, but I hate the fact that no one has looked at that industry and said, "Good grief, look at all the opportunity here."

The answer to your question is sure, the skills gap applies to any vocation that requires a skill that can only be attained through training and apprenticeship. And I can't think of a single vocation that relies on those two things where a gap hasn't manifested. So yeah, you can talk about cosmetology, you can talk about tailor, you can talk about all that stuff. The only distinction I make - and it's just a fact - some jobs fundamentally improve ... Call them the "wants" of our life. You want your suit to look good; you want to be able to get a haircut in a way that doesn't require you to schedule the thing three months in advance.

But you need, you need your toilet to flush when you hit the handle. You need your lights to come on when you flick the switch. We need this technology you and I are using right now to function properly for this interview to occur. So there's certain vocations upon which the entire country depends, and there's certain vocations that we like. So I do draw ... I do make a distinction. It's not a judgment, but I make a distinction between a really great plumber and a really great tailor, because life goes on without a really great tailor. With plumbing, not so much.

Brett McKay: That's true, that is true. Not so much. So tell us a little bit about the foundations you've started to promote blue-collar trade work.

Mike Rowe: Well, actually, not long after that whole sheep castration thing, it became so clear to me ... This was in 2008, you know, and when the economy tanked, the obvious narrative, and the obvious headlines that we saw day after day after day, focused on unemployment numbers. And as the unemployment rate nationally crept up to around 10%, everywhere I went on Dirty Jobs, I saw Help Wanted signs. I mean everywhere, all 50 states. And so it was that awareness that there were two conflicting narratives going on - a widening skills gap contemporaneous with rising unemployment - that made me think, "You know, if this show has any kind of worthwhile legacy, maybe it should be me talking about the opportunities that exist that no one else talks about."

So that's how the foundation started. In 2008, on Labor Day, I asked the fans of Dirty Jobs, who happily numbered in the millions, to help me build a trade resource center online that collated the alternative educational programs state by state, along with apprenticeships and fellowships, and all of the things that weren't a four-year degree that would lead to jobs that actually existed. And the fans of the show were amazing. They just overwhelmed us with information and links, so I hired people to try and organize that, and then I build a trade resource center and put it online, and we called it mikeroweWORKS.

It was useful to a point. It wasn't a job board, but really what it was was just proof positive that opportunity was everywhere. And that was a useful message, I think, for people to hear in 2009. I think it's useful to hear now. But the trade resource center became very difficult to manage, because it was so enormous, and I'm not an IT guy, and I didn't want to spend so much time organizing things through some sort of modern-age Dewey Decimal System. It was killing us. And besides, the more important element from building the trade resource center was just the idea that I could go out and say, "Look what the fans of this show did. Look at the opportunities that exist." And as I started doing that, companies started coming and saying, "You know, we have a lot of those opportunities right here. How can we help?" And so I started partnering with lots and lots of different companies to focus on jobs that existed under their roof.

And then? Then people wanted to contribute, and I didn't really have a mechanism for accepting money, and I didn't know what to do with it, so I resisted that for a while, but ultimately, it seemed like a sensible thing to do to set up a scholarship program. So mikeroweWORKS kind of evolved over the years, but today, it's still a PR campaign for jobs that actually exist, but primarily, it's a scholarship fund. We call it a work ethic scholarship program. We look for people who are willing to get the necessary training to pursue the kinds of jobs that we're talking about, and that's been pretty rewarding, and it's been good. Not huge, by foundation standards - we've given away a little more than $4 million since we started - but they're modest stipends, you know, $2,000 here, $5,000 there. People who want to be a tailor, people who want to be a plumber, we can help, and so we have.

And honestly, of all the things dividing the country right now, the thing that worries me the most is the divide between a big group of people who seem convinced that the system's totally rigged and there is no hope, and a group of people who are convinced otherwise. So I'm in that group. I know for a fact that there's not a single place in the country where somebody isn't hiring within an industry wherever anybody is sitting right now. I know that, and I've seen it again and again. I've seen what can happen if people enthusiastically go after the first few rungs on the ladder, and I can prove it. So that's why the foundation evolved, that's why I continue to work on it to this day, and with luck, we'll continue to move the needle in the future.

Brett McKay: Besides the foundation, you've also started a podcast yourself, The Way I Heard It. What was the impetus behind that, and what sort of stuff will listeners find on your show?

Mike Rowe: Honestly, that thing turned into ... That was another unexpected peripeteia. It was a year ago, I was saying to a friend of mind, "You know, Paul Harvey was a" ... You remember Paul Harvey, by any chance?

Brett McKay: Oh, of course, yeah, yeah, definitely. I think he's from Oklahoma. I'm from Oklahoma. He's-

Mike Rowe: Yeah, I think he might be too. He worked in Chicago mostly, but he had a show called The Rest of the Story. It was three five-minute mysteries; he'd do them every day. And I loved them, because they were basically biographies and little history lessons, but served up as a mystery, so you don't really know who he's talking about until the last sentence. It just occurred to me that nobody was doing anything like that. And by the way, Paul Harvey, Charles Kuralt, George Plimpton, Studs Terkel, you know, these guys are all dead, and they left a huge smoking ... They just don't make them, and people don't tell stories like that anymore. And I would in no way compare myself to them; I can't fill their footsteps, but I can follow in their footsteps, maybe. And so, with that in mind, given the amount of time I was spending on airplanes, I just thought, "You know, I'm gonna try and write one of these mysteries a week, in the style of Paul Harvey."

Anyway, we started doing it a year ago, and I started posting them under this podcast called The Way I Heard It. I didn't pay much attention to it, because I don't really understand the whole podcast thing, and I was really writing them just to entertain myself. But somebody called a few months ago and said, "Listen, these things have been downloaded 22 million times." And I was reading them on Facebook as well, and they were viewed something like 30 million times, so he said, "You should maybe do some more," so I'm doing that, and it's really fun. I'm not a writer by trade, but I love to write. These have been rewarding, and the feedback's been great, so as soon as we're finished today, I'm going to go upstairs and write one, and we'll post it, and we'll see where it goes, but so far, so good.

Brett McKay: Fantastic. Well, Mike, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for your time; it's been an absolute pleasure.

Mike Rowe: Any time. I appreciate what you guys are doing as well, and I hope we can do it again.

Brett McKay: My guest today was Mike Rowe. You know him as the host of Dirty Jobs. You can find out more information about Mike's work, what he's doing with mikeroweWORKS, at mikerowe.com and profoundlydisconnected.com. Also, check out our show notes at aom.is/rowe, where you can find links to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic.

Well, that wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. For more manly tips and advice, make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com. If you enjoy this show, have gotten something out of it, I'd appreciate if you'd take one minute to give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher. Helps us out a lot. As always, thank you for your continued support, and until next time, this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.

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The Case for Blue Collar Work - Mike Rowe Interview | The Art of Manliness

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In America, there's an assumption that the most meaningful careers are found in office buildings, among those taking part in the information economy rather than in the nitty gritty of blue collar trades.

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Want to start working in a trade after high school without having to go or pay for trade school.
B. Interested in the idea of working as an apprentice with a Labor Union, while attending trade school, community college, or even a 4-year college.
C. Interested in supporting themselves with a lucrative career while either deciding on or attending college.
D. Would like to work in construction, roads, and electrical.
E. Passionate about working with your hands and learning complex skills in wiring, tele-data communications, hazardous materials communication, fiberoptics, or CAD/BIM.
For more information about Apprenticeship programs, visit http://www.ibewlocal102.org/training.aspx or http://www.njlaborers.org/ or watch video below:

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Union Apprenticeship Programs -The Best Decision You’ll Ever Make!

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Take this time to explore your creative side.

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Take this time to explore your creative side.

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Are artistic/creative types.
B. Would like to pursue an artistic/creative endeavor without influence from an arts program at a college.
C. Is interested in taking a risk.
*This can be done while working FT/PT, attending community college, volunteering, or any of the other suggestions from this padlet.
Watch the video, below, of an actor who chose to pursue his passion instead of going to college.

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Aaron Paul Graduated High School Early to Pursue Acting

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Volunteer for a good cause- may receive a stipend or college tuition assistance

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Volunteer for a good cause- may receive a stipend or college tuition assistance

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Are looking to give back to the community through service.
B. Would like to receive college tuition assistance or reimbursement.
C. Looking to build their character.
D. Travel for free and experience other cultures...before starting a family and focusing on every day responsibilities.
D. Interested in working with the PeaceCorps, AmeriCorps, the National Civilian Community Corp (NCCC) (for men), Conservation Corps, Global Routes, or the Catholic Volunteer Network.
For more information and direct links to the above organizations, visit https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/04/17/is-college-for-everyone-10-alternatives-to-the-traditional-4-year-college/.
Image retrieved from Travelers Quest at http://www.travellersquest.com/articles/best-high-school-volunteer-abroad-program-opportunities-organizations.

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Serve your country and join the military.

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Serve your country and join the military.

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Are looking to serve their country before entering the workforce as a civilian or attending college.
B. Interested in receiving tuition assistance, a GI bill, or loan reimbursement program for education obtained before enlisting. You can also earn an Associates degree through the Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) available to men and women in the air force offering over 70 degree programs.
C. Looking to travel and see the world.
D. Want to discover their passion while dedicating themselves to service and discipline.
E. Would like to embark on a military career offering free healthcare, VA benefits (including home loans), life insurance, and full retirement benefits after 20 years.
For more information on how to become an office, see video below. Also, please visit http://todaysmilitary.com/ for more information and videos that discuss specific branches of the military, training, education opportunities, and social/family life.

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Narrator: When it comes to choosing a career in the Military, it's important to know what sort of work fits your skills, interests and future goals. Officer careers typically involve leadership roles like planning and directing military operations, strategically working with enlisted service members or serving in specialized medical or legal roles. Officer careers require a college degree. They offer great responsibility and personal satisfaction for those who decide to pursue them. These are the ways to become an officer.

Service academies and Senior Military Colleges offer a four-year higher education experience while fully immersing students in military culture. Service academies offer full scholarships in return for a service commitment after graduation. Senior Military Colleges, while a similar experience, require students to serve after graduation only if they receive ROTC scholarships.

The Reserve Officer Training Corps, or ROTC, is a great way to see if the military lifestyle is the right fit for you during college. One weekend out of the month, students participate in ROTC training, a combination of field exercises and classroom education. The program offers selective scholarships if a student commits to serve after graduation.

Officer Candidate School, known as Officer Training School in the Air Force, is an officer program for recruits who have a four-year degree and did not do an ROTC program. It teaches leadership skills, military culture and physical training over a 10- to 17-week period.

Direct Commission Officers are civilians who have special skills needed for military operations. These are usually individuals who have earned professional degrees in fields such as medicine, law and religious studies. Because of their expertise, Direct Commission Officers may have different age and training requirements than the norm.

Whatever path you choose, becoming an officer will begin a career offering a rewarding mixture of thought and action - in which critical skills learned in the classroom are put to the test in the field. And it's all toward the vital goal of protecting our country.

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Narrator: When it comes to choosing a career in the Military, it's important to know what sort of work fits your skills, interests and future goals. Officer careers typically involve leadership roles like planning and directing military operations, strategically working with enlisted service members or serving in specialized medical or legal roles.

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Take a year off before heading to college - Gap Year. 

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Take a year off before heading to college - Gap Year. 

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Ideal choice for student who:
A. Want to take a year, before heading off to college, to explore themselves and discover the skills they will need to live their lives.
B. Are looking to be a part of a program that will help them find volunteer work and possibly work abroad.
C. Would like to take this opportunity to advance their intellectual, academic, and professional objectives. Gap years allow students to grow and mature a little more before heading out to college.
*Students can volunteer for organizations (such as those listed under voluteer in this padlet) or other organizations such as Habitat for Humanity or World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms (WWOF).
*Students are better off applying to colleges while in school (before taking the gap year) since the infrastructure and support are already in place.  Most colleges will hold the student's spot and scholarships should be available once enrolled. Some volunteer organizations will provide additional college funding which is sometimes matched by other scholarships.
For more information, visit the website below:

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American Association of Community Colleges. (2018). Fast Facts. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from https://www.aacc.nche.edu/research-trends/fast-facts/

Anderberg, J. (2014). Is College for Everyone?11 Alternatives to the Traditional 4-year College. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/04/17/is-college-for-everyone-10-alternatives-to-the-traditional-4-year-college/

The Art of Manliness. (2017). Podcast #308: The Case for Blue Collar Work with Mike Rowe. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from https://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/05/30/mike-rowe-interview/.

GoCollege. (2017). Vocational & Trade Schools: A Growing Trend. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from http://www.gocollege.com/options/vocational-trade-schools/.

The Grown Up Millenial. (2016, August 25th). Community College: Pros and Cons. [Video file]/ Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Riuzvo-90O8.

Hemmer, S. (2016, May 8th). Work-Learning-Service at Warren Wilson College. [Video file]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnAK6u8zXDc.

IBEW Local 102. (2018). Training. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from http://www.ibewlocal102.org/training.aspx

IBEW Local Union 569. (2016, January 12th). Union Apprenticeship Programs – The Best Decision You’ll Ever Make! [Video file]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPUCGaV-zs

Kern, R. (2010). 7 Questions to Ask When Considering a Gap Year. Retrieved on April 5th 2018 from https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/right-school/timeline/articles/2010/05/19/7-questions-to-ask-when-considering-a-gap-year

Liuna NJ. (n.d.). Training & Appreticeship. Retreived on April 5th, 2018 from http://www.njlaborers.org/node/84.

MacQuarrie, A.J. (2017). 8 Tips for Entreprenuerial High School Students Ready to Start Their First Businesses. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/300403

Theoffcamerashow. (2017, January 15th). Aaron Paul Graduated High School Early to Pursue Acting. [Video file]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTLM4mY1yEU.

TodaysMilitary. (2018). Living Benefits & Family. Retrieved on April 5th 2018 from http://todaysmilitary.com/living/paying-for-college.

Work Learning Service. (2014-15). Home. Retrieved on April 5th, 2018 from http://www.workcolleges.org/.

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Start a business/ take over the family business.

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Start a business/ take over the family business.

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Ideal choice for students who:
A. Have a strong sense of business acumen and know what they want to offer to consumers.
B. Have already undergone direct work experience in the family business and excited about taking over the enterprise.
C. Like the idea of working for themselves and being their own boss.
D. Has a good idea for a commodity, service, or invention.
E. Would like to work from home with an online business or blog.
For more tips on how to start your own business, read the article below:

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5 min read

Opinions expressed by Entrepreneur contributors are their own.

More than 15 million U.S. high school students headed to school last month, and many of them will become entrepreneurs, building their own futures, creating wealth and doing what they love.
Related: 11 Successful Kid Entrepreneurs Keeping Their Eyes on the Prize
Entrepreneurship is respected, fun and dynamic (now more than ever before). There's never a dull moment. It's something you can start at any time in your life and, especially if you are young, you'll only get better at it as you travel through life. It's like a muscle you can work on and practice.

As Mark Cuban says, business is the ultimate sport. It's an exciting way to do life. You have a direct impact on the economy, create jobs, create wealth and solve a multitude of problems that make peoples' lives better.

There's no time better than now for any young entrepreneur to embark on the adventure of their life.

1. Do it now: Start your own business.

Like swimming, you just have to jump in and start paddling. You know those ideas you've been batting around? Write them down. What's your best one? What makes it better? How can you gain an edge? Talk about your idea with your friends, gather feedback from them, from parents, teachers, your target customers. And go for it.
Related: 25 Kids That Made Millions Before Graduating High School
Don't make it complicated. It can be a simple business, like babysitting, yard work or dog walking. This is going to give you experience in setting up a business -- organizing paperwork, registering it, getting a business license, a tax identification number and so forth. Legitimize it as much as you can because your age is working against you. Babysitters who have CPR and First Aid certificates are a cut above. References from satisfied customers, before and after photos of a house-painting project you completed -- whatever you can point to that shows you are serious and that you care about what you do.

2. Find your first mentors.

This step is very important. And it's a lot easier than you might think it would be. The business world is filled with people who've made it and want to "send the elevator down" to pass along the knowledge, lessons and insights they've accumulated in their climb to success. It might be intimidating to ask someone, but go ahead and approach some local business owners and ask them if they can help you and mentor you. Throughout your life as an entrepreneur you should actively seek out and ask for mentorship. You will always need someone supportive, honest and neutral to turn to for advice.

3. Get a job.

Wait, wait ... why get a job when you're starting a business? Well, for one very good reason: You need to get more experience with customers and people. American businesses pride themselves on providing excellent customer service -- but no one is born innately knowing how to do that. It's something you learn how to do. The experience of interacting with people makes a huge difference to building a successful business. You need to learn to be the face of the company, to exhibit grace under pressure and to spread that smile on your face to satisfied customers and coworkers even on their crummiest day. Attitude may not be everything, but it's always going to be a lot, so start becoming an entrepreneur by learning from McDonald's or your local supermarket.
Related: The 6 Best Jobs for Teenage Entrepreneurs
4. Embrace failure.

Everyone fails. It's what we learn from our failures that teaches us what we need to be successful. Overcome any fear of failure you might feel -- that feeling is the biggest obstacle of any you'll ever face. Try. Fail. Get back up. Convert the experience into education. Learn its lessons. Did you need more focus, attention, effort? Get back up and try again, armed with your experience.

5. Put yourself out there.

First, be yourself. Remember what may not be considered cool in high school could give you an edge as an entrepreneur. Step out of your comfort zone. Run for student government, join a sports or academic team, get involved with the school news team. You need to start getting comfortable being a leader and marketing yourself, because ultimately that's what entrepreneurship is all about. You'll benefit from anything where you work on teams with others. It's good to be able to juggle a lot going on, to meet obligations and develop accountability.
Related: 5 Reasons Why Kids Make Amazing Entrepreneurs
6. Get involved with theater.

I was involved in community theater since I was very young and I started my own theater company when I was 17. It was my first real business. It developed so many skills in working with people and overcoming shyness. Today, I can command important phone calls and my team, and I credit my experience being involved in 35 productions with developing the skills necessary to build up my business into a nationwide healthy vending company.

7. Pay attention in these classes (I wish I had!).

Math is critical because you won't be able to rely on an accountant or bookkeeper when you get your business started. And after you're successful, you still need to keep an eye on your finances -- your livelihood is at stake.

English and writing are crucial. You need to communicate your ideas clearly and often. You need to persuade customers and financiers and suppliers. You need to sound intelligent and inspire confidence.

8. Recognize opportunities and pursue them.

Look for a problem in your community. Think about how you can possibly create a business around solving it. Start thinking about it even if you never do it. You need to start exercising the creative brainstorming part of your brain.
Related Video: How to Support Your Entrepreneurial Kids

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8 Tips for Entrepreneurial High School Students Ready to Start Their First Businesses

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5 min read Opinions expressed by Entrepreneur contributors are their own. More than 15 million U.S. high school students headed to school last month, and many of them will become entrepreneurs, building their own futures, creating wealth and doing what they love.