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Agree with banding statements any title holding advanced is usually trainee advanced role at a band 7 and 8a for qualified advanced roles. My colleague was a trainee Surgical Care Practitioner (SCP) at band 7 and a 8a once qualified as an SCP. In terms of Advanced Practice Health Education England (HEE) also quantify the same banding. 8a for advanced practice not 6. I’m currently registered ODP but band 7 Lead Resuscitation Officer.

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Policies are so outdated at our trust regarding ODP’s! To the point where I’m theatre we’re not allowed only ODP’s on a night or weekend shift in a theatre, there has to be a nurse there, even a band 5!

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I was only thinking about where I fit into this, as I’m sure there will be others out there who are in similar positions.
I haven’t worked in Theatres for 12 years, was qualified as C&G752 all those years back. However, I maintain my registration, am a band 8C and work within my clinical skills.
I think it’s important that we think about non Theatre roles as more and more move into management of one sort or another.

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Overall a great framework that is definitely needed for the profession.
Two areas of concern for me are:
1 - Why does a senior ODP need to be educated to level 7? The course is level 6 and very little opportunity exisists in the NHS to complete a funded level 7 course. This could also discriminate against those already in the role that have been doing it for years and may be C&G or NVQ qualified.
2 - ODP isn't limited to theatres, although I appreciate most roles are based here. Introducing a framework that looks as if it supports the idea an ODP can only progress into senior roles in theatre could be damaging for those of us that work out of the perioperative arena and also inhibit the development of further roles. I'm a band 7 lead practitioner and haven't worked in theatre for 3 years!

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I wish Hospital Trusts would allow, or give, ODP's a chance of working in Research - they're always advertised for nurses/NMC registered professionals. After 7 years as an ODP & a back injury which gives me pain all the time now I'd jump at the chance of a research job. I've yet to come across a Research ODP but if you are out there please let me know how you got into it!
Unfortunately what you get told as a student regarding job opportunities post-qualification can prove disappointing in reality.

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Good starting point for discussion

I have some concerns with some of the descriptions - there. Is the suggestion that leadership roles only occur in theatre - I think that the leadership ones should be generic - increasingly ODPs are doing senior / divisional leadership roles or even regional

I’m guessing education ones are academic ones in HEI though of course university banding is separate and doesn’t Align toA4c

Band 8 is actually 4 band 8a -d and what about band 9 ?? Although there are senior roles in the Centre I think VSM payscale could be mentioned here

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National Job Specification and AfC for Trainee Advanced Practitioners are at band 7 and Qualified Advanced Practitioners are at Band 8a.  If Advanced ODPs are at band 6 would this not cause AfC banding issues and problems with parity with other professional groups that work at an advanced level of practice.
I understand that the RCN are credentialing nurses that have MSc and practice at advanced level.  You could have Advanced Nurses In theatre at band 8a and Advanced ODP at band 6?  Both having Advanced Titles?
THANK YOU (from Helen)

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Initial thoughts: Great idea. Thought we should have a framework every since I saw the paramedic career pathway.
One concern re-terminology. Framework suggests Advanced ODPs are a level below Specialist ODPs, this is the wrong way round. Advanced ODPs/ODPs in Advanced Roles study at academic level 7. Surgical First Assistant is an extended scope of practice achieved with level 6 study. It is not an advanced role. Advanced roles include SCP, PA(A) and ACP. They all require a minimum of 2yrs post-grad education at level 7 whereas SFA is a 30 credit module at level 6. Have Senior/Specialist ODP at level 6 with Advanced ODP at level 7. Also, Advanced ODPs span all 4 pillars of Advanced Practice: Education, Leadership, Clinical Expertise and Research, would be good to reflect that in the diagram , at present they are listed under Clinical Expertise.
Great work so far, well done.
Sarah Anderson (Trainee ACP, ODP, MSc Student & Student SFA)
THANK YOU (from Helen)

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ODP & Perioperative Career Framework Final June 2017

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SCAN ME -This is the QR CODE for the framework - please share it with the ODP community!

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Cue forum hull educators and students - 07/07/2017 

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Cue forum hull educators and students - 07/07/2017 

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You can measure yourself against this
Disparity about what level sfa is and other roles
Ensure don't hold back practitioners by stating that you have to have level 6/7
Learn from AFC alignment and regrading which occurred
More opportunities in London
Private sector
Will Trusts look at this and try to use it to provide most cost effective/degrade people?

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Design would be nice centred around ODP rather than the cheif exec. I.e he other way round
Limitations in future practices?
Advances ODP is part of BSc
Makes all ODP's/trusts equal
Trust would need to be on board
Could/should this be led by the Trusts
National framework - trust health board have to acknowledge roles and responsibilities I line with the reward.
Career aligned to education and why!!
Equality and parity with peers of like or similar professions. Theatre nurses/ODP.
Positive.
Good idea
Good to have pictorial version to show ODP's and applicants
Concise
Good visual solid format
Potential for cross professions
Difference between consultant and specialist
What would a consultant do?
Extend past level 8?
Earlier engagement with research skills
Clarity over roles/levels to align the framework(this would ensure engagement and understanding of direction for additional study etc)
Is it more complex than a circle?

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No need for level 4 or less
Take it on a road show to other universities
?sideways movement I.e. Specialist ODP may be horizontal not vertical
? Level 5/6 are both qualified ODP's
Do we need to match levels with roles? (Maybe not?)
It's about educating employers
Are ODPs unable to apply due to unable to access
Is the profession stopping progression to high levels e.g dept manager ODP. It slowed to apply for as not qualified to work on ward
To change identity to become another profession not just an ODP
Will PAA/SCP want to be known as an ODP or a PAA in future?

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Will it cause some practitioners issues and regarding/demoting?
How does it fit into KSF/other PDP's
Who would this sit best with, the CODP, AfPP both?
Create a guide as to what roles these aspects come under
Need a national study to identify roles
Need to share this nationally and let ODP's voice what they want - crowdsourcing similar to that for the AHP's?

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scan me- This is the padlet link for this padlet - please share it with the ODP community!

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ODP Conference ideas and suggestions- from approx. 80 delegates
ODP journal/magazine- online?
use focus groups
a guide on how we can expand
this pathway gives you options
promotes stability
creates fairness
likelihood of future plans to develop
50/50 leadership and education
opportunity for progression
colour code the overlaps?
Confusion about the word consultant, will the public think we are doctors, should we use a different term?

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ODP Conference ideas and suggestions
Where can we find the pathway, how can we access it?
Good clear prospects for ODP's
How as a band 5 can we implement this into practice i.e. take it back to work
What jobs in clinical practice could an ODP do? How can we expand our role?
A dedicated ODP Masters degree/modules?
Bringing parity to ODP preceptorships
Why are we not pushing for an ALL DEGREE PROFESSION
The framework could give us credibility/stability, specific education routes, recognition
single profession in theatres
We might need more transferable skills, some from nursing or other professions like paramedics so we should train on wards and other areas as part of our course, perhaps in the community and in the 1st year. They come to our area so why not us to theirs?
Mental health & community health
Management simulation training
What constitutes a 5 or 6 nationally
The trusts would need to be involved
Getting the recognition
Would we need to regrade staff to fit this framework? How would we overcome the national disparity that already exists?
Would we need a 5a, 6a etc?
Where does being on the directorate, a hospital manager or chief exec fit in the leadership bit?
Where does policy maker fit- in the research bit?
Where would professor and lecturer fit?
Put a guide on the back?

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06/07/2017 Sheffield Hallam University
SHU Students, Conference Delegates, Academic staff
Educational academic level - starts at level 6 (mentor), levels of prgression prior to level 6 (Dip/NVQ/City & Guilds).

Definately needed! Good Model!
Like the layout- easy to understand
Assumptions of title- consultant- what does this mean to people?
Keeping of the ODP within advanced roles is important!
Practice development - not represented (title)
?Example needed for each title?

Clinical- job roles can be specified so as toknow whta skills are needed?

it is imperative to keep the ODP title so to give awareness of the profession
the crossover from leadership to clincial practice conflicts itself
to new students this framework is needed to widen future prospects to the profession
to those choosing a career in ODP this would be great so they can see future aspirations
information database or link for career progressio

This could be used at PDP's to help the practitioner discsuss what they want and where they want to get to