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I am honestly not surprised about the kinds of violence that Vance encountered at home.  In our previous readings from Chapters 1 & 2 we were able to see that from a very young age, Vance's grandparents were exposed to and committed acts of violence of their own.
I do not think that the family themselves consider some of their behaviors violent. Violence has always been part of their "heritage". I believe that Vance's family thinks their behaviors are the norm. You often times do not thinks something is wrong or different when that is all you have known in your life.

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"She loathed anything that smacked of a lack of complete devotion to the family." (pg. 41)
Mamaw was raised in a time where family always stuck together no matter what. You were never to talk to strangers about your family. In doing so, Mamaw felt that you "committed the cardinal sin of disloyalty." (pg. 42). In reading Chapter 3 the most common theme that I picked up on was that often times in the end, when all is said and done, you only have family left.

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The attitude conflicts towards work that many Middletown people faced can be found throughout many middle class working individuals....The need to have your children do better for themselves than you.
In chapter 4 we read about the pride and comfort (monies and insurance) Armco provided to Papaw and his family.  While this job was acceptable for him, the only acceptable job for his offspring at Armco was "as an engineer, not a laborer in the weld shop." (pg. 56). Middletown parents and grandparents felt that in order to achieve the American Dream you had to progress, move forward, on the socioeconomic ladder and that required one thing...going to college.

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In reading Chapter 3, I was thinking the entire time. how many of our students go home to the violence and unease we read about?

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Even in uncertainty, family is something that one is supposed to be able to count on.
Again and again in the book, there's examples of family sticking together. They definitely practiced what they preached.

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No.  Multiple situations seemed stressed to the max.  Economic uncertainty and the stress that comes with it unfortunately might lead to violence being unleashed out of frustration.
I wouldn't be surprised if some in the family thought their behavior was somewhat normal at times, or even if abnormal, they could find ways to justify it.

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In response to Kylee's statement concerning a parent's need to have their children do better....I would certainly hope this is the case and I always just assumed it was. I'm not so sure that is the case with some of our parents at UC. I wonder how many of our parents are quite comfortable with their children never achieving any kind of upward mobility, so that those kids will never leave them. I wonder how many of our students underachieve because they are "kept down" by their own parents. And if there is anything to that, how do we break them loose? Is it our business to do so? I would like to think so.

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I always notice the kids who aren't cheering on the last dismissal of the school year. Plenty of our kids have a sadness in their eyes when school ends for the year. They might not admit they enjoy being at school and they might not get the best grades, but inside they know that school is far more consistent than the summer they are about to spend at home.

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But there are also some pretty glaring examples of disloyalty - Papaw's mother abandoning him, Vance's mother abandoning him, and I don't even remember why their fathers weren't in the picture.
I read somewhere recently that politicians in other countries rarely talk about the importance of family, because the importance of family is assumed and not threatened. American politicians talk about it all the time, maybe perhaps because it's so precarious in our culture. Maybe that's what's going on with Mamaw & family disloyalty - she dislikes it so much because she's seen some hurtful examples of it.

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There are a number of contradictions, and I'm not sure what Vance is trying to say with them. "The rhetoric of hard work conflicts with the reality on the ground." (p. 58) People talk about the importance of hard work, but they don't work. Is he saying that people are poor because they are lazy? And on page 57: "To the average Middletonian, hard work doesn't matter as much as raw talent." He then credits his grandparents for giving him a "different message at home" (p. 60) - basically a growth mindset, which may have saved him from a life of poverty. But again, I'm not sure what Vance is saying about the role of his family and culture. Were his grandparents able to do that BECAUSE of the solid foundation of their mountain culture, or did they do it IN SPITE of their culture? As teachers, should we view our students' family cultures as a source of strength to tap into, or as a limiting thing that needs to be overcome? Am I reading too much into this?

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When Vance described the plight of steel workers in Middletown, I couldn't help thinking of coal miner songs I learned when I lived in NC. They describe the same thing, only it's coal mines closing down.  Here are a couple of my favorites:

The L & N Don't Stop Here Anymore by Jean Richie (performed by Johnny Cash)

Paradise by John Prine

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Even more specific to loyalty, Mama thought it was important to be loyal to your family. You are not supposed to talk about your family outside of the family. A couple of examples that I found especially interesting is 1. How Mama's brothers were protective of her and how papa treated her; however, after they married when Mama's brothers came up they would take Papa out drinking and hanging out with other women. 2. After Jimmy moved out, when Jimmy came over for dinner Aunt Wee had to hide in her room after Papa had beat her up. Although Jimmy was family, because he had moved out he was not allowed to know what was going on in the family based on Mama's rules

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I think that when you do not have much then family might be all that you really have so you want to protect it at all costs.  If your family won't protect you, then who will.  We see this quite often with our students who come from "bad homes."  They will protect a parent  at all costs no matter what that parent might have done to them.   Being with family in a horrible situation is better than being alone in a world you can't imagine.

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Yes and no. He speaks so matter of fact that it's like he knows it was there but that is all they knew so they didn't think much about it. That's just the way their life, and the lives of others around them, was. He speaks so highly of Mamaw and Papaw and that was his safe place that I assumed it was always a happy place to be so I was shocked to know at one point it could be a violent place to be.

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Even though to an extent the violence is expected, I was still surprised by it. They mentioned in chapters 1 and 2 how someone would get away with murder, they would kill someone and charges would never be pressed. In chapters 3 and 4, a couple of scenes of violence that surprised me is 1. When Mama sat Papa on fire when laying on the couch after coming home drunk a few too many times. 2. When Papa gave Aunt Wee a black eye. 3. When they destroyed the toys at the store after Jimmy was yelled at, and then just continued Christmas shopping as if nothing happened.

I do not think that they truly understand the extent of the violence. I think is interesting to hear Jimmy's account of how Mama and Papa got along when Jimmy was an only child. Also, I found it interesting how his mom and Aunt Wee both found themselves in abusive relationships.

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I believe that the parents truly did want their children to do better than them but they had no idea how to make that happen so it didn't.  It was almost like they were waiting for it all to happen for them without doing much to get there, and when it didn't happen, oh well.  It also sounded like they didn't truly know what hard work meant.  They assumed that what they were doing was hard work even if they worked very little.  I loved the statement on pg. 57 about the woman who "was a lifetime welfare recipient: and then complained that "So many people abuse the system , it's impossible for the hardworking people to get the help they need."  I see this in our students all of the time, they like to blame and tattle on other students but can never see that they do the exact same things and are upset if they get into trouble for it.  They like to judge the world around them but don't want the world to judge them.    I believe this is partly self protection because maybe they do compare themselves to others and know they are lacking in some ways so try to drag others down to make themselves look better.

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This book makes me wish that Casey's grandparents were still alive because I would love to talk to them and compare their lives to Vance's life. They are transplants from Glasgow, Kentucky that moved to Indiana after World War II to get factory jobs. At least 1 of Tom's brothers moved also so wonder if they did the extended family migration. His story does make you look at students a little differently to help realize whey they do some of the things that they do. I am sure that will continue even more as we read.

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Reading about Armco and feelings that the parents didn't want their children to work at Armco, but rather go off to college and achieve a career stuck with me. Initially this is what Jimmy did, after high school he moved out and worked at Armco. I think to extent Papa resented Jimmy for this; however, over the course of time Jimmy ended up taking classee while working and starting a career. I think as a town we have seen a lot of people work in the factory and live with the challenges of factories uproooting and abandoning the town. There are several people in Union City that still talk about the days when they worked at body company and work horse, similar to Armco these local factories provide a lot of economic structure and stability for the town where they are located.

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I can tell you that I have seen and lived some of Vance's life through my up bringing.  My family is transplanted from Rowan County Kentucky and so much of this book takes me back to my family vacations to Kentucky to stay with family.

The biggest take away that I see in our students is the loyalty to family.  Even if their family situation is awful we have students that will stay home and baby sit, work two jobs to pay bills because they do not want to see their family struggle more than it does already.

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30 mins later problem be out side your window