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List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle and answer the following questions:

Why  are these topics  important?
what is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?
What  interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand?
Write your group no.

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Major Topics Covered:

1. Rankine Cycle

This is important because it solves the problems with trying to use a Carnot cycle which is not suitable as an model for an ideal vapour power cycle

2. Ways to increase efficiency

Because small increases in thermal efficiency can mean large savings from the fuel requirements

3. Reheat

Solves the excessive moisture problem in turbines

4. Cogeneration

To produce more than one useful form of energy

5. Combined Cycles

Has higher thermal efficiency than either gas-turbine or steam-turbine cycle executed individually

6. Binary Cycles

Combination of a cycle in the high temperature region and another in the low temperature region

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THERMODYNAMICS II Group Closure Review [MAVERICK MOK GIM XING, 25170, ME3, DR.AKLILU]

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THERMODYNAMICS II Group Closure Review [MAVERICK MOK GIM XING, 25170, ME3, DR.AKLILU]

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The major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle are rankine cycle, ways to increase the efficiency of a rankine cycle, deviation of actual cycle from the idealised one, the ideal reheat rankine cycle, open feedwater heater and closed feedwater heater and lastly cogeneration.

These topics are important because rankine cycle is a model that is used to predict the performance of steam turbine systems. The Rankine cycle is an idealized thermodynamic cycle of a heat engine that converts heat into mechanical work. The heat is supplied externally to a closed loop, which usually uses water as the working fluid.

A general way to solve rankine cycle problems are through the use of the T-S Diagram by knowing the value of the entropy and also the temperature. Not to forget that pressure are also important. Through these values, we can search the value of enthalpy through the table provided.

The part that interest me the most is the ways to increase the efficiency of a rankine cycle as it can provide a larger area under the curve to increase the net work output. The part that is difficult for me to understand is cogeneration as our class have not yet touch on that topic for now. Thank you.

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Names :

Irfan Iskandar (25022)
Mohamad Danial Jaffar (25025)
Muhammad Amirul Hakim (17007237)
Nur Syafiqah Binti Mohamed Hussain (17000750)
Mohd Irfan Bin Anur (25121)

1. Major Topics in Vapor & Combined Power Cycles

a) Carnot Vapor Cycle
b) Rankine Cycle
c) Increasing Rankine Cycle's Efficiency
d) Deviation of Actual Cycle from Idealised one
e) The Ideal Reheat Rankine Cycle
f) Ideal Regenerative Rankine Cycles (OFH/CFH)
g) Cogeneration
h) Combined Gas-Vapor Power Cycles

2. Why are these topics important

- To have a strong theoretical basis in preparation for real industrial scenarios

- To understand how power generation works

- Being able to improve on current efficiencies

3. General methodology for solving the typical Rankine Cycle Problem

- List the assumptions
- Draw P-v and T-s diagrams
- Identify the 4 processes
- Determine the h-values based on the given temperatures
- Calculate the Qin and Qout
- Calculate the net work
- Calculate the thermal efficiency

4. What interests you most about the topics and which one is the most difficult to understand?

Most Interesting :

Carnot Vapor Cycle because we have learned it in Thermo I

Most Difficult :

Combined Gas-Vapor Power Cycles

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group review

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Why are these topics important:
-able to solve problems based in internal combustion cycle and on gas turbine cycles.
-identify simplifying assumptions for 2nd law of thermodynamics
-perform analysis for the gas power cycles

general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem:
-increase high pressure
-decrease low pressure
-apply regeneration
-apply reheating

interests about topic/s:
-understanding the cycle and able to derive the equations/formulas from it.
-understanding the concept of the cycles

which one is difficult to understand:
-Chapter 2 (combined cycle.)

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Major Topics Covered
-Carnot Vapor Cycle
- Rankine Cycle (Ideal Cycle for Vapor Power Cycles)
-Increasing Rankine Cycle effiencency
-Deviation of Actual Cycle from Idealised One
-The Ideal Reheat Rankine Cycle
-The Ideal Regenerative Rankine Cycle
- Cogeneration
-Combined Gas-Vapor Power Cycles

1. Why are these topics important?
-related to the uses and applications of turbines in the engineering field.
2. What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?
- understanding the concept of the cycle.
- sketch and label the T-s or P-v diagram of the cycle
-derive and apply equations/formulas related to Rankine cycle
-find the necessary unknowns for all states involved in the cycle (ex: temperature,enthalpy,specific volume,etc).
3. What interests you most about the topics and which one is the difficult one to understand ?
- interests-> how the cycles work and function at different conditions/states.
-difficult-> Combined power cycle.

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Group Closure Review- Vapour and Combined Power Cycle

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Group Closure Review- Vapour and Combined Power Cycle

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Group 9

1) Thadchini Ramanujam (25212)
2) Mohamad Afif Azhan Bin Azis (25208)
3) Danish Luqman Bin Norazmi (25302)
4) Ahmad Syukri Bin Abdul Rahman (25280)
5) Mohammad Saifullah Alqawieyy Bin Mohd Abdul Wahab (25343)

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Answer:
1. Why are these topics important?

For the application during the industrial period later

To learn the basic fundamental and the main principle of thermodynamic system

2. What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?
1) List all of the information given
2) Draw T-S diagram and label
3) Find information needed like specific volume, pressure, entropy, enthalpy of each point given
4) Find work of pump (to find enthalpy after compression)
4) Make sure s3 and s4 have same entropy as they is isentropic process
5) Find the quality, X.
6) Answer the question

3. Topics that interests you the most

How to increase efficiency of Rankine cycle

4. Topics that difficult to understand

Rankine cycle (reheat & cogeneration)

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Vapor and combined cycle

1)      Rankine cycle

2)      How to increase the efficiency of the Rankine cycle

3)      The ideal reheat Rankine cycle

4)      Combined gas-vapor power cycle

Why are these topics important.

It is a topic about power generation. As engineer we need to know the types of energy conversion and how it works. So, engineer can illustrate how power plants produce electrical and mechanical power. Vapour power cycles, in which working fluid is alternatively vaporised and condensed, can be evaluate to determine power cycle performance, thermal efficiency, net power output and mass flow rates. Combined gas-vapour power cycle is an innovative modifications to conventional power plant to achieve higher efficiency It can increase the efficiency without increasing fuel cost. Thermal efficiency is about 50% as reported.

General Method to solve Rankine Cycle
The Rankine Cycle is one of many thermodynamic cycles that is used to produce mechanical work. This cycle in particular is used to predict the work produced by a steam turbine system in a heat engine. Heat engines are commonly found in things like trains and air conditioners.

The Rankine cycle consists of four different components: a steam generator of some kind (for example, a boiler), a steam turbine, and condenser, and a pump. Each component changes the state and properties of the fluid that moves through it, by adding and taking away heat and work, in order to transfer energy from heat to work.

Steam generator: Turns the fluid at room temperature and pressure, to vapor or steam at an extremely high temperature, usually known as "superheated vapor.”

Turbine: The pressure is increased, resulting in a drop in temperature, and producing mechanical work that leaves the system to be used.

Condenser: Operates at a constant pressure where heat is released into the environment, compressing the state of the fluid back down to a liquid-gas mixture, that is mostly liquid. This state is otherwise known as “saturated liquid.”

Pump: Pressurizes the saturated liquid back up to the pressure of the turbine by bringing work back into the system, turning to a highly pressurized liquid which is usually referred to as a "compressed liquid.”

Finally, the fluid goes back through the steam generator at constant pressure to return to a superheated vapor.

There are few steps to solve a Rankine Cycle Problem:

1)      The First Step in the analysis is to simply draw a diagram of the system.

2)      important to know that to acquire all of the properties of any given state, you must first have two independent properties to calculate the rest

3)      After obtaining all of the necessary values, the First Law of Thermodynamics is used to calculate work, heat and efficiency of the cycle

The efficiency of a basic Rankine Cycle is usually somewhere around the order of 40% so 39% is an acceptable value.

What interests you most about the topic?

The methods taken by the engineers in order to increase the efficiency of rankine cycle is what interest me most. First, they came out with the idea of making carnot vapor cycle possible by introducing boiler (superheating purposes) and condenser (condensing vapor completely). This is considered a very good way to solve the problems which are the turbine cannot handle high moisture content and the compressor cannot handle 2 phases (mixture). Next, they introduced 3 ways which are increasing boiler pressure, decreasing condenser pressure and superheating the steam to higher temperature so more. Yes, those are very very nice way to increase rankine cycle efficiency. Not to talk about how they introduced 2nd turbine (low pressure turbine) after reheating process in such a brilliant way to increase efficiency. Finally, they utilize the high temperature exhaust gas to increase the heat addition in the boiler of the vapor cycle. This one if used in combined gas vapor cycle. Interesting omgad.

WHICH PART IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?

We found out that most of us are having a hard time to find the right value of enthalpy, entropy, and the temperature in the vapour power cycle which is the most crucial part in the problem solving especially in Brayton cycle where intercooling, reheating and regeneration occurs. Maybe because we do not really understand the concept of the cycle. We believe this can be fixed if we do enough practice or exercise.

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a) Major Topics covered in vapor power cycle & combined power cycle:
1) Carnot vapor cycle
2) Rankine Cycle, energy analysis of the ideal Rankine cycle
3) Modifications to Rankine cycle
4) Deviation of actual cycle from ideal
5) Ideal reheat and regenerative Rankine cycle
6) Co-generation and combined gas-vapor power cycle

b) Why are these topics important?
we think this topic is important because it enables us to understand the effects of increasing the average temperature at which heat is transferred to the working fluid in the boiler, or decrease the average temperature at which heat is rejected from the working fluid in the condenser.

c) methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem:
first draw the T-s or P-v diagram and label all important points. then find out the enthalpy, h temperature and pressure for all the points. use the formulas to find what the questions wants.

d) What interests us most:
The Rankine cycle because it is a cycle that converts heat energy into work. Heat is supplied around a closed loop. We use this cycle to predict the performance of steam turbine systems whereby water is a working fluid. the one that is difficult to understand is the Ideal Rankine Cycle.

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Major topics :- Ideal Rankine Cycle (reheat and regenerative, cogeneration, combined gas-vapor power cycles
Importance :-
- to know the real life application and how to improvise
General methodology to solve typical rankine cycle :-
Work pump = v1(p2-p1)
h2=h1 + Wp
h1=hf @ p.sat
h3=h @ superheated
s3=s4
sg4=sg @ p.sat
s4=sf + x (sfg)
h4=hf + x4 (hfg)
Work turbine = h3-h4
Wnet = Wt -Wp
Efficiency = 1- (q out / q in)
Interest us most:-
- combined gas-power cycle
Difficult topic:-
- rankine cycle (regeneration)
- OFH (function of y, what is y?)

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The major topics are
- The Carnot Vapor Cycle
- Rankine Cycle: The ideal cycle for vapor power cycles
- Deviation of actual vapor power cycles from idealized ones
- How can increase the efficiency of the Rankine cycle?
- The ideal reheat Rankine Cycle
- The ideal regenerative Rankine Cycle
- Cogeneration
- Combined gas-vapor power cycles

The importance of this topic is to know more about the Rankine Cycle. Since the Carnot cycle is not suitable for vapor power, Rankine cycle is used to handle the vapor power. Besides, the Combined Power and Refrigeration Cycles are used to improve overall energy conversion efficiency and decrease the cost of energy produced. The topic is a review of combined power and cooling cycles for effective utilization of heat sources.

Methodology to slove a Rankine cycle problem
1. Draw the process graph.
2. Find the enthalpy,h of all the process.
3. Use the enthalpies to find Heat in & out , Work Pump, Work Turbine.
4. Find the efficiency of the cycle.

The most interest topic is Deviation of actual vapor power cycles from idealized ones.
The most difficult topic is Cogeneration and Combined gas-vapor cycles

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Why are these topics important?
The topics enables students to study and learn more about steam power plants. Steam power plants are widely and commonly found in many companies in the world. Examples are coal plants, nuclear plants and biomass plants. Moreover, it also helps us understand more about how the cycles work in hopes of engineering a  better and efficient system in the future.

What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?
To solve a typical Rankine cycle problem, it is important to draw graphs/diagrams beforehand and figuring out the enthalpies, entropies and specific volumes from the Property Tables and calculations. The final step is to evaluate the question based on the values found from the calculations before.

What interests you most about the topics and which one is the difficult one to understand?
The interesting part in this topic is when observing the graphs and being able to see the processes of the cycles explained. In addition, when modifying the graphs, it can be seen that the thermal efficiencies can be changed to increase or decrease based on the particular modification made.
The combined cycle also shows how the rejected heat is not just lost to the environment but made useful for other processes in the chapters to come.
The difficult part in this topic is on the combined power cycle and the regeneration Rankine cycle, which took some time to understand.

ME1
LAB 1, GROUP 2

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Why are these topics important?

Vapour and Combined Power Cycle is significant because most industrial company utilizes these cycles. Examples are coal plant, biomass plant, and nuclear plant. Furthermore, by studying more on these cycles, we can provide a better and efficient system in the future.

What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?

The first step is to draw a T-s Diagram and label the information provided. Next, find the required parameters such as enthalpies, specific volume, and entropy of each states by analysing its properties and also through the suitable Property Table. After that, calculate the desired value from the question.

What interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand?

Combined Power Cycle and Regenerative Rankine Cycle are complex topics and require us time to understand the topic. Besides, the interesting part about this topic is regarding on the effects due to modifications of Rankine Cycle. Through proper modifications, we can increase the efficiency of the cycle. Furthermore, combining two or more thermodynamic cycles results in improved overall efficiency, reducing fuel costs.

ME2
GROUP 8

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Major topics:

carnot vapor cycle

rankine cycle: ideal cycle for vapor power cycle

deviation of actual vapor cycle from ideal cycle

modification of basic rankine cycle; to increase thermal efficiency (lowering condenser pressure, superheating the steam to a higher temperature, increasing the boiler pressure)

ideal regenerative rankine cycle

cogeneration

combined gas power cycle

Why is this topic important?

to enable us to understand about thermodynamics cycles which are very important in industries and daily life

to learn about modifications and improvements that can be made to enhance the efficiency of the cycles

Methodology to solve Rankine Cycle

draw the T-s graph

find the enthalpy, h for every state

find anything that is required using the enthalpy (Qin Qout Work-pump Work-turbine)

find efficiency of the cycle

Most interesting topic

ideal Rankine Cycle

Difficult topic

combined gas-vapor cycle and cogeneration

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+ Group ME2, Members:-
• Ramzi Farhan Bin Rosdi@Razif 25394
• Fikran Ilmi Bin Saaid 25314
• Muhd Safwan Bin Sadimin 25367
• Ealdvieriena Jainin 25412
• Olive Uyang David Ngau 25392
Q&A :
+ List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle.
- Rankine vapour power cycle, increasing Rankine cycle efficiency, Ideal reheat Rankine cycle, Ideal regenerative Rankine Cycle, Combined gas-vapor power cycle
+ Why are these topics important?
- Useful for invention of machine in the industry
- Helps increase the efficiancy of each process
- Helps to understand the characteristic of vapor and combined power cycle that can be use in industry
- Gives idea how to solve problem that related to power cycle
+ What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?
- List out all information from the question
- Draw diagram to represent the process and label it
- Calculate and find enthalpy or entropy for each temperature using tables
- Answer the question given (eg : Wnet, BWR, Efficiancy)
+ What interest you most about topics and which one is the difficult one to understand?
- Interest the most -> the Cycle (generally)
- They are all difficult but I find it enjoyable once I understand the steps.

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List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle
-rankine cycle
-rankine cycle with regeneration
-rankine system with reheating and multistage expansion
-combined gas turbine and steam generator cycle
and answer the following

Questions:
1.Why  are these topics  important?
-the topic is important for us to be able to eveluate and design steam turbine  generators bases on rankine cycle

2.What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?
-sketch T-S diagram
-find enthalpy of all the states
-calculate Qin,Qout,Wturbine and find efficiency

3.What  interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand?
-The difficult one to understand is the reheat and regeneration part
- The complex part is so to differentiate those cycles on how to calculate, formula & so on
-One of the most interesting topics is Increasing Rankine Cycle Efficiency by lowering the condenser pressure, superheating the steam and increasing the boiler pressure
-Cogerenation is also an interesting topic

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List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle and answer the following questions:Carnot Vapor CycleIdeal Rankine CycleActual Rankine CycleIdeal Rankine Reheat CycleIdeal Regenerative Rankine Cycle-	Opened Feedwater Heaters-	Closed Feedwater HeatersCombined Gas-Vapor Power CyclesWhy  are these topics  important?-Based on a report by Black & Vetch, the number of projects involving vapour and combined power cycle will increase by a masiive 3.1% in the next decade. This is due to its high efficiency of combined power plants. It may cost more than simple cycle plants, but they make up for that drawback in high efficiency. The current world industry is using vapour and combined power cycle more frequently to achieve high efficiency. The demands of these cycles in industry is getting higher. Hence, it is important for us to understand the reason why vapour and combined power cycles can achieve such high efficiency. In future, with enough knowledge on these cycle, we can also impprove and enhance the current vapour and combined power cycle to achieve even higher efficiecy or even invent another new type of cycle to achieve higher.what is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?1) write down the information and data given 2) draw T-S diagram for the particular question 3) write down equations/ formulas that’ll help in solving 4) find enthalpy and entropy for all states 5) refer to table to get required values 6) solve questionWhat  interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand? -What interest me the most about the topics is regeneration in the Rankine cycle. With the help of regeneration, we can improve the efficiency of the cycle when the heat is taken from steam between turbine stages and used to heat water as it goes through pump stages. The cogeneration of Rankine is the most difficult topic. The graph needs to be analysed thoroughly because the combination of various process can be confusing and tricky to be determined. Nevertheless, it is also another innovative modification to help the conventional power plants achieve higher efficiency.Write your group no.

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List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle and answer the following questions:Carnot Vapor CycleIdeal Rankine CycleActual Rankine CycleIdeal Rankine Reheat CycleIdeal Regenerative Rankine Cycle-	Opened Feedwater Heaters-	Closed Feedwater HeatersCombined Gas-Vapor Power CyclesWhy  are these topics  important?-Based on a report by Black & Vetch, the number of projects involving vapour and combined power cycle will increase by a masiive 3.1% in the next decade. This is due to its high efficiency of combined power plants. It may cost more than simple cycle plants, but they make up for that drawback in high efficiency. The current world industry is using vapour and combined power cycle more frequently to achieve high efficiency. The demands of these cycles in industry is getting higher. Hence, it is important for us to understand the reason why vapour and combined power cycles can achieve such high efficiency. In future, with enough knowledge on these cycle, we can also impprove and enhance the current vapour and combined power cycle to achieve even higher efficiecy or even invent another new type of cycle to achieve higher.what is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?1) write down the information and data given 2) draw T-S diagram for the particular question 3) write down equations/ formulas that’ll help in solving 4) find enthalpy and entropy for all states 5) refer to table to get required values 6) solve questionWhat  interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand? -What interest me the most about the topics is regeneration in the Rankine cycle. With the help of regeneration, we can improve the efficiency of the cycle when the heat is taken from steam between turbine stages and used to heat water as it goes through pump stages. The cogeneration of Rankine is the most difficult topic. The graph needs to be analysed thoroughly because the combination of various process can be confusing and tricky to be determined. Nevertheless, it is also another innovative modification to help the conventional power plants achieve higher efficiency.Write your group no.

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List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle and answer the following questions:

Carnot Vapor Cycle

Ideal Rankine Cycle

Actual Rankine Cycle

Ideal Rankine Reheat Cycle

Ideal Regenerative Rankine Cycle

-        Opened Feedwater Heaters

-        Closed Feedwater Heaters

Combined Gas-Vapor Power Cycles

Why  are these topics  important?

-Based on a report by Black & Vetch, the number of projects involving vapour and combined power cycle will increase by a masiive 3.1% in the next decade. This is due to its high efficiency of combined power plants. It may cost more than simple cycle plants, but they make up for that drawback in high efficiency. The current world industry is using vapour and combined power cycle more frequently to achieve high efficiency. The demands of these cycles in industry is getting higher. Hence, it is important for us to understand the reason why vapour and combined power cycles can achieve such high efficiency. In future, with enough knowledge on these cycle, we can also impprove and enhance the current vapour and combined power cycle to achieve even higher efficiecy or even invent another new type of cycle to achieve higher.

What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?

1) write down the information and data given

2) draw T-S diagram for the particular question

3) write down equations/ formulas that’ll help in solving

4) find enthalpy and entropy for all states

5) refer to table to get required values

6) solve question

What  interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand?

-What interest me the most about the topics is regeneration in the Rankine cycle. With the help of regeneration, we can improve the efficiency of the cycle when the heat is taken from steam between turbine stages and used to heat water as it goes through pump stages. The cogeneration of Rankine is the most difficult topic. The graph needs to be analysed thoroughly because the combination of various process can be confusing and tricky to be determined. Nevertheless, it is also another innovative modification to help the conventional power plants achieve higher efficiency.

Write your group no.

20

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Major topics
-The Simple Ideal Rankine Cycle
- Increasing Rankine Cycle Efficiency
- Deviation of Actual Cycle from Idealised One
- The Ideal Reheat Rankine Cycle
- The Ideal Regenerative Rankine Cycle
(Open feedwater heater & Closed feedwater heater)
- Cogeneration
- Combined Gas- Vapor Power Cycles

Why are these topics important?
Because they will be applied in real life in industry.

What is the general methodology to solve Rankine Cycle problem?
By sketching T-s diagram in order us to know the process happened at the particular point before we proceed to find h,s,v,sfg,hfg at point 1.

What interests you most about the topic and which one is the difficult?

The combined of gas vapor power cycles is quite interesting because it combines with what we have learnt before. The difficult one to understand is the ideal regenerative Rankine Cycle.

No group: 22

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List the major topics covered in vapor and combined power cycle and answer the following questions:

1.     Carnot Vapor Cycle.

2.     Increasing Rankine Cycle Efficiency.

3.     Deviation of Actual Cycle.

4.     Regenerative vapor power cycles (Open Feedwater and Closed Feedwater Heater).

5.     Cogeneration.

Why are these topics important?

1.     Investigate ways to modify the basic Rankine vapor power cycle to increase the cycle thermal efficiency.

2.     To learn on how power cycles that consist of two separate cycles known as combined cycles and binary cycles.

What is the general methodology to solve a typical Rankine cycle problem?

1.     Understood Idealization and Assumptions.

2.      Draw the diagram based on type of the cycle (T-s and P-v diagram).

3.      Acquire all of the properties of any given state.

4.      Calculating state property values.
5.      Calculating Work, Heat and Efficiency and solved the other questions.

What interests you most about the topic/s and which one is the difficult one to understand?
1.     The cogeneration topic is so interesting to learn as it was something new for us.
2.     The regenerative vapor power cycles can be a little difficult to understand as the OFW and CFW can be confusing to recognize.

Write your group no: 17

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1. Carnot Vapor Cycle
2. Ideal Rankine Cycle
3.  Actual Rankine Cycle
4. Improvements to Actual Rankine Cycle
4a. Reheat Rankine Cycle
4b. Regenerative Rankine Cycle
5. Power Co-generation and Combined Power cycle

These topics allow the analysis of power generation in power plants that use water vapor and showing why Carnot cycle does not work in real life.

Method to solve Rankine cycle problem:
1. Draw T-s diagram and ideal Rankine
2. Determine given (normally superheated or saturated liquid) states, especially P,T,h and s.
3. Using processes in Rankine, determine all 4 states.
4. If actual Rankine is needed, determine actual state 2 and 4 using turbine and pump efficiency.
5. Find Qin, Qout, Wpump, Wturbine using enthalpy difference
6. Find rate of mass flow, Wnet and efficiency as need.

Interests: Real life application of Rankine cycle, whether existing power plant is as best optimized as possible and if not, why.
Hard: Questions involving coals.

Our group members:
17008744
24967
24947
24916
25161
24989