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Krista Daniels- Response to Chandra Shurvinton

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Krista Daniels- Response to Chandra Shurvinton

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Chandra,
You make a very good point in being in a rural school district.  I did not think about small towns not having the capability of having a resource officer.  I spoke from the other side, but now you got me thinking about the schools that are unable to have security guards or resource officers.  That does make a huge difference in this issue.  They would not have any chance of having a trained officer there in an urgent situation.  Some small towns may not have great numbers in their police department.   Great point!

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I have thought a lot about this topic because I have heard of so many horrible incidents that have happened on the news due to guns.  There was even a point in time when I was younger and there was a shooting at my cousins school, and a child had died because the dad had come to the school going after the mom and the child got in the way of the bullet.  It was a horrible incident that happened and will definitely never be forgotten.  As much as I think a gun may have helped in that situation, I just don't see how adding guns to a school could be a good thing.  You hear all of the time stories of people accidently getting shot, according to the article I read, putting guns in schools would increase the potential for accidents.
Beem, D. (2013). "Back to School: Lock and Load" The Hugffington Post.

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I too live in a small rural area. I would say the  police response time would be more than 11 minutes. I have been through a couple of simulations to help encourage teachers to find "weapons" in their classroom to fight back with, or to know how to hide and secure their room to prevent entry from the hallway. The few trainings that I have went through really have helped myself think of ways to either Fight or Flight.
I agree that not just any teacher or admin should be allowed to carry, there should be "protocol" to determine who should be able to carry.

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I do not agree that EVERY teacher should be armed but I do feel that there should be some teachers or administrator armed if the school can't afford to have a armed police officer. I don't think the students should know which teacher it is but maybe having the "threat" of another loaded weapon on school would deter some of the gun violence. Depending on how the school is set up having at least one person in every hallway be the "Shield Solutions" for the school. Luckily I have never had to experience any gun violence within school but I have had a few students that I kept an extra eye on because they "fit" the stereotypical view of a shooter. I don't feel that I personally would be a good person to be a Shield Solution. I think that I would freeze or not be able react quick enough.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/23/missouri-teachers-concealed-weapons_n_5522708.html

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I like the idea of introducing more resource officers into schools but the problem lies with how to cover the cost. Not all schools have the ability or the budget to hire a resource officer.  If the government really wants to make our schools safer they need to allot more money to schools for school safety or offer a grant to schools in financial need. There has to be a way to make schools safer without burdening the school’s budget.

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I had a very hard time deciding which column I belonged in for this assignment. I honestly probably belong more on the “con” side that the “pro” side because I don’t believe that every teacher should have a gun or that there should be an abundance of guns inside of a school. Multiple guns inside of a school would cause huge liability issues, safety issues, and it would probably destroy the learning environment of that school.  However, I do believe there are certain situations where if a teacher/administrator had a gun it might mean the difference between life and death. I used to work in a very small rural district and when we practiced our intruder training we were told that it would take law enforcement AT LEAST 20 minutes to respond to our location if an emergency was to occur. We were like those small rural schools discussed in the Kansas City Star article, we didn’t have a security officer or a Resource Officer, the school quite frankly couldn’t afford it. My previous school was so small (<100 students) that if we would have ever had an intruder, they probably could have killed us all before law enforcement ever showed up.  As I said at the beginning of my post, I do not advocate for every teacher having a gun. I know that I wouldn’t have the ability to shoot a student and that I shouldn’t be responsible for carrying a gun in a school, but if someone in the school district felt confident enough about their guns skills and had the proper AND regular training, I know that I would be okay with that. I agree with the article that stated the teachers who are certified to carry a gun in a school should be anonyms.  Students don’t need to know, it would be a distraction if they did know and it could possibly limit the effectiveness of that teacher (the student/parent knows what room to avoid or who to take out first) if an active shooter situation ever occurred. I think there should be some very strong limits on allowing a gun in a school but I do believe that there might be certain situations that call for it.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article595097.html

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Response to Dillion by Chandra Shurvington

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Response to Dillion by Chandra Shurvington

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Dillion, I agree that teachers were not trained to respond to active shooters, however I think that with training, elected staff members could help in the event of an emergency. I think the key to this is also taking time to see the realistic cost that the government is willing to spend on training teachers v. hiring trained officers. It would be interesting to see just how much cost factors into the final decision.

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In growing up in a rural school district, at the heart of a town of 700, I feel that teachers who have been trained and educated to be armed in the event of an emergency is much more critical than it is in a larger district. Had someone said the words "school resource officer" in my hometown not a single person would have a clue as to who we were supposed to be looking for. They don't exist in small towns. It is typically a superintendent, principal, counselor, and staff, that's it. The nearest police department is two to three towns away and at least a 20 minute drive for them to arrive should they need to.While I understand and agree that not every staff member needs to be carrying a weapon or hiding one in their desk drawer, someone in that building needs to know how to fight back for the safety of the students. After completing an armed intruder drill recently, even five minutes with a shooter in the building waiting for law enforcement to save us felt like an eternity. Schools need to have someone in the building who is comfortable and well trained to be armed and ready in an emergency. The article Every Teacher in America Should Have a Gun states this in regards to response time and the pro for armed staff, "What happens when the closest police unit is 10 minutes away? One of two scenarios will happen: die or become injured waiting to be rescued, or fight back. Shouldn’t we give our children and teachers a fighting chance?" While I agree, I do feel teachers need education, training, and continuous support for this to be most effective, and safe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-siebold/every-teacher-in-america-_b_3797752.html

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I personally posted for the other side but I can really see your side Laura.  I think when we think about this policy it is easy for the first thing to go into our heads to be every single teacher walking into school with a pistol in their sock.  Limiting this to highly trained individuals would reduce a lot of the potential risks with arming teachers.  The study about inmates and criminals was interesting that criminals were highly less likely to attack somewhere if there is a thought that somebody may be armed at the potential location.

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Dillon Luke......I am also on the side of not arming teachers, though I can see the other side of the ball as well.  I like the edweek article where the author states that "You would be taking people who were trained to educate—many of whom had most likely never owned or even fired a gun—and transforming them into the appointed defenders of schools."  While I do believe there should be some form of protection in schools, via means of armed security guards, I do not believe arming teachers is not the answer in my mind.  Teachers were not trained to defend students lives via means of firearms, but to educate them.

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Dillon Luke......I am also on the side of not arming teachers, though I can see the other side of the ball as well.  I like the edweek article where the author states that "You would be taking people who were trained to educate—many of whom had most likely never owned or even fired a gun—and transforming them into the appointed defenders of schools."  While I do believe there should be some form of protection in schools, via means of armed security guards, I do not believe arming teachers is not the answer in my mind.  Teachers were not trained to defend students lives via means of firearms, but to educate them.

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http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/10/29/10moore.h34.html

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I am surprised that you believe a gun will discharge by accidentally bumping into lasagna.  Firearms do not discharge by themselves, regardless of what movies have led you to believe.  There must be something physically pulling the trigger.  Now, if somehow her ladle handle were placed in front of the trigger and able to pull 9 pounds worth of force (a double action revolver with an internal hammer cannot go off unless the trigger is pulled with 9-13 pounds of force) without her noticing, then yes, there might be an unfortunate accident.  But that scenario is just about impossible in my opinion.  The only way the firearm will discharge on its own is if there is a serious mechanical issue that a trained owner would be aware of in the first place.  I doubt a firearm with an issue of this caliber would be the choice of someone who was carrying concealed for the protection of those around them, especially in a school setting.

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While I do not support every teacher in a school having a weapon, I think the proposal for one or two anonymously armed teachers who are highly trained has value.  I understand this will not be a popular viewpoint, and for those who teach in large school districts, you most likely have access to higher security measures than those who teach in small, rural districts.  According to an article by Kara Pendleton on www.ijreview.com the average police response time in the United States is 11 minutes.  I live in Maryville, which means the response time here is most likely significantly lower than the national average simply due to the size of the town and the distance the local police department is from the school buildings, but I would rather not put my life or the lives of those around me in jeopardy while waiting for someone else to come save me.  If I am now being taught by my school district to fight back in the case of an armed intruder, I would much rather have something more effective than the stapler off my desk to defend myself and my students. I do not, however, advocate for any person with access to a firearm to strap it on their hip and come to school to teach.  I feel only teachers who have had extensive training and who volunteer for this position should be involved.  There are many teachers who do not feel equipped to handle this situation, and I completely respect that.  I would never want someone to carry a concealed weapon if they were uncomfortable, and I would want others to know that whomever was there protecting the masses was highly trained and ready for any situation that may arise.  I believe the Shield Solutions program mentioned in the previous resources would be an excellent way to implement more security in schools. http://www.ijreview.com/2016/03/554002-heres-how-long-on-average-it-takes-for-police-to-respond-to-a-911-call/

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I agree with Tiffany that teachers are not prepared to turn into swat team members or anything comparable. Most of us, even if properly trained, would not be comfortable with this type of responsibility. I also agree that it does initially seem like a good idea, but that the bad outweighs the good.

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I agree with your sentiment on adding more resource officers to school.  At least in that scenario you have someone who is trained and knows that protection is their job.  That sounds a lot better than the lunch lady having to jump into action or her gun accidently going off because she bumped it serving lasagna.  I would also note the stat in the video at the beginning of the lesson that guns are 22X more likely to be used for something other than defense.

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Although no one wants to see anymore school shootings, I do not think the answer is arming teachers.  I agree with Russ Moore in the edweek.com article in the presentation.  Arming teachers is going to cause way more harm than good.  An inexperienced gun user is not going to be able to react in those situations. (Moore,2014) That's not even getting into the issues of liability, accidents, the procedures of how teachers would have to carry their weapon, and student accessibility.
edweek.org/edu/articles/2014/10/29/10moore.h34.html

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I totally agree with Michelle.  The potential dangers to students cannot be underscored.  While law enforcement is trained and still makes mistakes, it is unfair to expect a teacher to hold themselves to the same level of professionalism as an officer, not make a mistake, and deal with the consequences if a mistake is made.  Also the potential for a mistake opens up the school district and teachers to liabilities never explored before.

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Tiffany Keeth
While arming teachers initially seems like an idea that is worth considering, I soon realize the bad outweighs the possible benefits.  Arming teachers has a whole host of issues one being asking teachers to react to a shooter and transition into a swat officers in a matter of minutes or even seconds is not feasible, according to G.A. Buie a principal in Kansas.  Swat officers go through intense training and continual training to prepare them for their job.  A teacher is not equipped with this necessary knowledge.
Missouri School Districts Start Training Teachers to Conceal and Carry Weapons in Classrooms
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/23/missouri-teachers-concealed-weapons_n_5522708.html

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Although I am very conflicted on this topic I feel as though we should not add more guns to school.  I do like the idea of having more school resource officers, etc.  According to Beem (2013), there is too much of an increased risk for potential accidents.  I personally would not want to see anyone hurt just because someone made a mistake.  This makes me worried as an educator and as a parent.  There has to be a better way.  Beem, D. (2013) Back to School: Lock and Load.  Retrieved from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-beem/back-to-school_b_3762195.html