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Do you have questions or comments about this phase? Please add them here

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Do you have questions or comments about this phase? Please add them here

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Do you have questions or comments? Please add them here

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Do you have questions or comments? Please add them here

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Graham Ewing: The Limitations of Healthcare

Almost every pathological reaction influences sense perception. This happens because a biophoton is released which influences colour perception so by measuring changes of colour perception we can screen everything about a person’s health. It is also a neuromodulation therapeutic technique which proof-of-concept studies have illustrated 75-96% effective, often achieving therapeutic outcomes which exceed that which is possible using biomedicine. The technique ‘Strannik’ was developed by Igor Grakov in the period 1981-2006.

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Maybe it's not a female issue the fact that women who do not put themselves forward in management due to lack of assertiveness...women really do not need to be "fixed" in this. Its a joint effort that will "fix" it. AI will be heavily impacted for the worst if this does not happen. I see this first hand working with these AI tools unfortunately (3 instances in the workplace of AI bias that have been practically implemented and counting) Impacts ALL minorities!...where possible the tool if within your remit should be re-coded. Or a policy formulated NOT to use

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Evolving Panorama and Timings for the Day in GMT (UK Time)

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Evolving Panorama and Timings for the Day in GMT (UK Time)

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09:30 - 10:00 : Phase 1 - Arrivals

Activities on arrival include a Quotes Auction and Voting Boards, both in-person and online. These activities aim to immediately engage participants in the day’s theme of AI and Risk.

10:00 - 10:15: Phase 2 - Tuning in and Host Welcome

The welcome session sets the tone for the day, introducing the strategic importance of ethical AI and safety. The aim is to establish a shared understanding and context for the day’s discussions.

10:15 - 10:35: Phase 3 - Seeding the Day

10:45 - 11:15: Phase 4 - Community Scan

Featuring:

Michael Ekpechue, Director at Ada Labs UK

Priscila Chaves Martinez, Innovation and Ecosystem Lead at Cargill

Alex McKeown, Head of Data Ethics at Information Governance Services, Research Fellow in Bioethics at the University of Oxford

Dr. Syreeta Charles-Cole, Data Science Ethicist, CEO and University Ethics Reviewer

This panel discussion aims to explore a multi-stakeholder approach to AI safety. The interactive Q&A and the empty chair concept are designed to include diverse perspectives.

11:30 - 11:45: Phase 5 - Break and Informal Dialogue

11:45 - 12:15: Phase 6 - The Ethical Agenda for Business

Featuring:

Evgeniya Fedoseeva, Director of KM at Beamery, Founder at Generation KM

Renaud Di Francesco, Director, Europe Tech. and Standards at Sony

Andrei Bogdan, Inclusion, Diversity and Engagement Manager at Informa

The panel aims to discuss the business case for ethical AI development, particularly focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI).

12:30 - 13:15: Phase 7 - Midway Along Our Road

This lunch break offers a moment for thought leadership, possibly through a slideshow or a recorded forum, aiming to keep the intellectual engagement alive.

13:15 - 13:45: Phase 8 - The Good, the Bad and the Possible

This forum scrum aims to explore corporate governance perspectives on AI transparency through scenario-based discussions.

13:45 - 14:15: Phase 9 - Voice of the People, with:

Featuring:

Ryan Carrier, Executive Director at ForHumanity

Kerryn Arnott, Legal Head, Digital Innovation at Standard Advisory London and Standard Chartered Bank

Katja Andric, AI Policy Analyst at GSK

Prof. Ali Hessami, VC & Process Architect, IEEE Ethics Certification Programme for Autonomous & Intelligent Systems at IEEE Standards Association

This panel aims to discuss corporate responsibility in AI ethics, focusing on public awareness and engagement.

14:30 - 14:45: Phase 10 - Asking the Next Generation

This strategic interlude aims to include the voice of the next generation, discussing best, expected, and worst-case scenarios in generative AI.

14:45 - 15:15: Phase 11 - Moving Our Feet into Action and Commitment

Featuring:

Debbie Reynolds, Founder and CEO at Debbie Reynolds Consulting

Sarah Clarke, Owner at Infospectives

Belinda Djamson, MD, Data and AI at Accenture

Prof. Paul Morrissey, Chair and Global Ambassador at TM Forum, Nova and Bolgiaten

Rebecca Gorman, Founder and CEO at Aligned AI

This panel aims to explore business-led initiatives for ethical AI, focusing on collaborative solutions.

15:30 - 15:55: Phase 12 - Panorama, Horizon Scanning and Weaving Threads of the Day Together

This concluding session aims to synthesise the day’s discussions and insights, setting the stage for a press release capturing the collective wisdom of the forum.

16:00 - 16:25: Phase 13 - Seeding the Onward Journey Beyond the Forum with Nick Bostrom

Nick Bostrom’s session aims to challenge the forum with questions or provocations that will extend the day’s discussions into future engagements.

16:25 - 16:30: Phase 14 - Setting Off for Home and into the Future

The closing remarks aim to thank all participants and lay down the next steps for staying engaged as a community.

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So happy that you could come: Who are you? Where are you joining us from?

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So happy that you could come: Who are you? Where are you joining us from?

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On our way & excited!

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My interest is upon the definition of AI. Is it Artificial Intelligence or Actual Intelligence. I say this because I have sought for some years to commercialise a mathematical model of the body’s regulated function which was developed to screen and treat the patient using only a software program and PC.

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we are sorting the viewing pleasure of vimeo . sorry that the discussed AI picture is not viewed as of yet .

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thanks for not making it a MANEL Richard, it's great!

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thanks for not making it a MANEL Richard, it's great!

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What are you hearing and how is it affecting you. what would be an AI ethical concern?

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some of the IODs recommendations of managing AI in the boardroom focus on 12 principles, 1 of these is: "Test and remove from use if bias and other impacts are discovered." How easy do the panel think this will be to do?

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Ethics refers to the branch of philosophy that deals with questions of right and wrong, moral principles, values, and human behavior. It is the study of what is morally right and just, and it explores the concepts of good and bad, duty, responsibility, and the consequences of our actions.

Ethics provides a framework for individuals and societies to make informed decisions about what is morally acceptable or unacceptable. It helps people navigate complex moral dilemmas and make choices that align with their values and the broader principles of right and wrong.

Ethical principles often form the basis of moral codes, rules, and guidelines that govern various aspects of human life, including personal behavior, professional conduct, and societal norms. These principles can vary across cultures and belief systems, leading to diverse ethical systems.

Some common ethical principles and theories include:

Utilitarianism: The principle of seeking the greatest good for the greatest number, where the ethical choice is the one that maximizes overall happiness or well-being.

Deontology: Emphasizes the importance of moral duties and obligations, where an action is considered ethical if it aligns with a specific moral rule or duty.

Virtue Ethics: Focuses on the development of virtuous character traits, emphasizing the importance of being a good person rather than solely following rules or calculating consequences.

Ethics of Care: Stresses the importance of interpersonal relationships and the care and consideration we owe to others, especially in contexts where vulnerability and dependency are involved.

Rights-Based Ethics: Centers on the idea of individual rights and freedoms, where ethical behavior respects and upholds the rights of individuals.

Relativism: Acknowledges that ethical standards may vary across cultures, and what is considered ethical can be context-dependent.

Ethical considerations play a crucial role in various fields, including philosophy, law, medicine, business, and technology. In these contexts, ethical frameworks help guide decision-making, shape public policies, and determine the ethical responsibilities of individuals and organizations.

Ethics is an essential aspect of human civilization, helping us navigate complex moral challenges, uphold shared values, and promote the well-being and dignity of individuals and society as a whole.

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Graham Ewing: Biomedicine is based upon a rudimentary understanding of the consequences of system failure. The various medical tests are a hotch potch of techniques which seek to determine the symptomatic consequences of the failure of this mechanism. Is it an ethical concern that there is, as yet, no recognition of the causal mechanism ie a mathematical model of the relationship between sense perception, brain function, the physiological systems and related organs, and cellular and molecular biology?

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"How can organisations effectively incorporate diversity, equity, and inclusion into their AI policies and strategies to ensure that AI technologies are developed, deployed, and used in ways that benefit all communities and minimize bias and discrimination?"

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Data is required it only in training but also in execution you must be able to trust both sets - synthetic data is useful sometimes with training but if you can’t trust the execution data (which is surprisingly common in organizations) you still have a massive issue.

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How can we strike the right balance between AI transparency and innovation, ensuring that AI systems are both accountable and ethical, while not stifling progress in AI research and development?

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legal considerations on AI

Balance of bringing in health and creativity into schools together with AI Ed.

The already excludes folks that need be brough onboard as we go ahead . laws and regulations must be perpetual reconsidered as we widen the audience to AI policy.

Ai can save us all ... IF we work towars that Vision .

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Some AI models, like deep neural networks, operate as "black boxes," meaning their decision-making processes are not easily understandable by humans. This opacity can hinder the ability to audit and ensure fairness, accountability, and ethical behavior in AI systems.

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1. What challenges and biases are most prevalent in AI systems, and how can we address them to ensure fair and equitable outcomes, particularly in underrepresented communities?

2. How can we build diverse and inclusive teams in AI development, and what strategies can organizations implement to ensure a more representative and equitable workforce in AI research and development?

3. What role can policy and regulation play in promoting diversity and equity in AI, and what are the potential benefits and drawbacks of government intervention in this domain?

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Regulation through 'parenthood' . where we guide and care for the guidelines/governance and let it mature . The state cannot rule but the people must drive the regulations as we learn more.

Consequences of mis-use of AI. How will we enforce regulations? practically?

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HTaylor left

Faizan Abbasi left

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 14:36)

I think too there will be differences. One thing is the open development which always is slightly wild, but also the established companies, which are more affected by regulations. And regulations also give a direction

So I certainly think absence of regulation will be a problem

ROHIT KUMAR left

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Pat (1 Nov 2023, 14:38)

Regulation is nothing without enforcement (although that can be enforcement through social norms, but criminals ignore that)

Fireflies.ai Notetaker Richard joined as a guest

Jaime Schwarz (1 Nov 2023, 14:41)

Livi- Sand Talk is a recco book

Jean Marie Altema (1 Nov 2023, 14:41)

Certainly, regulation isn't about blocking. It's important to create a safe environment that benefits all stakeholders.

Jaime Schwarz (1 Nov 2023, 14:42)

AI impersonating humans must be illegal

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 14:43)

To what Jean wrote: agreed. A rives does not stop to flow if it has bordersLivi Adu (1 Nov 2023, 14:46)

AI knows it has Bias due to the data sets it has been trained on but, it can't recognise what the bias are

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 14:53)

I'm not sure that people can normally recognise their biases, let alone what those biases are

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 14:55)

I guess it is quite difficult, and already a big win if we are aware that we are packed of biases….

But having them is not bad, is natural, but to decide and judge based on them, I think

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 14:45)

Policy rather than regulation seems like a good emphasis

the issue with not addressing Bias, either in yourself or technology is that it perpetuates stereotypes and leads to prejudice.

Yes, agree Livi; although I agree with Andres it is natural to have biases, if we don't recognize them and work to avoid having them influence us in decisions, it leads to bad decisions, but also that continuing problem of stereotypes and hence prejudice, which is then self-perpetuating

Livi Adu (1 Nov 2023, 14:46)

AI knows it has Bias due to the data sets it has been trained on but, it can't recognise what the bias are

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 14:53)

I'm not sure that people can normally recognise their biases, let alone what those biases are

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 14:55)

I guess it is quite difficult, and already a big win if we are aware that we are packed of biases….

But having them is not bad, is natural, but to decide and judge based on them, I think

Livi Adu (1 Nov 2023, 14:57)

the issue with not addressing Bias, either in yourself or technology is that it perpetuates stereotypes and leads to prejudice.

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 15:01)

Yes, agree Livi; although I agree with Andres it is natural to have biases, if we don't recognize them and work to avoid having them influence us in decisions, it leads to bad decisions, but also that continuing problem of stereotypes and hence prejudice, which is then self-perpetuating

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 15:05)

Agreed. Because passing it perpetuates it. So, we have it, that’s natural, but we put it in our products, and that starts a problem. Our products make it (as usually happens with uncontextualized info) in kind of a truth. So we have to pass also the awareness of bias to avoid their perpetuation?

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Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 15:05)

Agreed. Because passing it perpetuates it. So, we have it, that’s natural, but we put it in our products, and that starts a problem. Our products make it (as usually happens with uncontextualized info) in kind of a truth. So we have to pass also the awareness of bias to avoid their perpetuation?

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 15:09)

In the case of social networks, a playground for our prejudices and esterotipes, we know - if we are lucid users - that we should not believe all…

But in products where the source is so indirect like AI tools, we loose of sight the human bias and are not capable of fighting it.

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 15:09)

?

Livi Adu (1 Nov 2023, 15:10)

We have to be aware of it so that we can be better critical thinkers in our professional practice. Awareness is the first step, you then have to find ways to reduce the bias (with decision makers having relevant lived experience), then you apply that new learning to make your product better for the end user's experience.

Livi Adu (1 Nov 2023, 15:12)

we totally do lose sight of the bias with AI tools but, with AI hallucinations, it is bringing it to the forefront.

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 15:13)

I think most people seem to totally lose sight of bias anyway, without AI being anywhere near the problem. Look at the way some political movements influence folk who don't exercise their critical thinking powers.

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 15:14)

Of course, there are also those who then use AI to capitalise on that human weakness

Andres Leon-Geyer (1 Nov 2023, 15:16)

Agreed. There always will be.

To be true, I think (quite optimistically) that’s a minority, what troubles me more is our own sympathy for our weaknesses- like willful ignorance, or willful lack of awareness :/

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 15:19)

I think there is a mix of concerns there; if we can get everyone to deal with their own weaknesses, the problems largely go away, because an AI will have to adjust to behave itself to continue being useful. However, I think that is an unlikely outcome, sadly. I know I can't identify all of my own biases, try though I might.

The other side is the disproportional impact the bad actors can have, by influencing millions through social media (or, indeed, through legacy media)

For example, in another area: if I can cure trauma with VR, I can also cause it. It can be due simply to ignorance of its emotional power, but ignorance does not save me of responsability. If I am the teacher of VR development with did not tell well about the emotional consequences, am I accountable too. I know, this is quite far away of the kind of problem we are talking now, but I believe often a threath is to think that harm comes only from “bad people”, because it projects the problems far from our own agency.

Jaime Schwarz (1 Nov 2023, 15:08)

Transparent provenance of IP sourcing

Jaime Schwarz (1 Nov 2023, 15:25)

But if I show my jk Rowling work to open AI then I’ve informed them this needs to be fixed, where is the law on once ai company has been informed it can still provide plagiarized content that open ai is then liable?

Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 15:27)

Standing and empowered Ethics Committees operating with a Code of Ethics that transparently describes the shared moral framework and relevant legal frameworks applicable to the adjudication of each instance of Ethical Choice - ethics officers trained in Algorithm Ethics

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 15:27)

Data ethics may be more important, but yes.

Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 15:28)

Independent Audit of AI Systems is a 4 line of defence model that is operated over the lifecycle of an AAA SystemYou to Team MKAI (Direct Message) (1 Nov 2023, 15:30)

I think its important to emphasise that not all ethics is or can be codified into law. But can have consequences to humanity and organisations .

Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 15:30)

disagree Pat - we should talk

Jaime Schwarz (1 Nov 2023, 15:31)

Agree with Ryan, that’s was certifications and audits are for

You to Team MKAI (Direct Message) (1 Nov 2023, 15:31)

And that the conversation is important to be held perpetually a we mature with AI and machine learning.

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 15:32)

Then you are trusting the external audits and certifiers instead, which is easier/better to do

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Chat from online group

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10:56:11 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Are you on Vimeo?
10:56:21 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	You need to leave it if so
10:56:40 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	We seem to be fully working this side
10:56:45 From Louise To Everyone:
	Im not on Vimeo
10:56:59 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	I can hear the room and the room can hear me when I log in
10:57:45 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	You're not on Louise
10:57:46 From Louise To Everyone:
	Looks like its muted from your end
10:58:02 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Promise it's all working this side, it's definitely an issue for you
10:58:24 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	You're not on the audio, you need to join
10:58:32 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Try without the earphones
10:58:36 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Check your mic
11:30:41 From Louise To Everyone:
	On Vimeo we cannot see the pictures
11:30:52 From Louise To Everyone:
	Can we make the video be more roaming
11:40:35 From Team MKAI To Everyone:
	If you can hear we are starting the panel soon so pelase turn on cameras
12:09:30 From Michael Ekpechue To Everyone:
	I have contribution to the trust conversation
13:45:28 From Faizan Abbasi To Everyone:
	Question: What are the "dark sides" of the hyper regulation, that the mainstream media or folks not talking about?
	
	Sorry I'm at work so can't speak
13:47:51 From Team MKAI To Everyone:
	Please can you all unmute
13:48:23 From Team MKAI To Louise(Privately):
	You do not have any audio connected, please can you connect a device
13:48:57 From Team MKAI To Louise(Privately):
	We cannot hear you Louise
14:17:55 From Pat To Everyone:
	(Lecturer in social, legal and ethical aspects of computing with a special interest in AI): Great sessions.  We need to be cautious about who makes the laws (and the Civil Contingencies Act is a case in point about how law may not be as good as it could be)
14:19:54 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	You guys might find this interesting: First copyright suit concerning ai (stability.ai). generation of protected content. I found it out on Facebook, so I need to verify this case, but the link is safe, https://drive.google.com/file/d/19oLqGeezldu1de366DMGrVYJsKXDgJS2/view?fbclid=IwAR39gng9Yg58glXMsSYWkl74etjqKl8P540FzyZHxtq4uBEmaY-0iWlmlA8
14:21:03 From Hande Donmez To Everyone:
	Reacted to "(Lecturer in social,â¦" with â¤ï¸
14:23:02 From Vibhav Mithal To Everyone:
	Thank you Livi for sharing that. This is an order in one of the pending cases, and is instructive to us for learn how the Courts are looking at this.
14:23:05 From Pat To Everyone:
	Louise's point about keeping the human creativity is important.  And I think that also related back to trust as discussed earlier; we need to establish ways of using the technology ("AI") that allows us to be able to trust in the ways we work with it, almost irrespective of whether the underlying tech (algorithms and data and intentions of the 'owners' of it) is itself trustworthy.
14:23:48 From Vibhav Mithal To Louise(Privately):
	Very good to meet you ! Thank you for your points.
14:24:11 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thank you Livi for s..." with ð
14:25:28 From Pat To Everyone:
	Will regulation make any sense if it isn't in some way 'global'?  There is obviously a need for regional/cultural variation, but that also risks undermining the usefulness of the regulations.
14:28:48 From Pat To Everyone:
	Would you also have the regulation prevent fan-fiction created by humans?
14:36:16 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	I think too there will be differences. One thing is the open development which always is slightly wild, but also the established companies, which are more affected by regulations. And regulations also give a direction
14:36:50 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	So I certainly think absence of regulation will be a problem
14:38:39 From Pat To Everyone:
	Regulation is nothing without enforcement (although that can be enforcement through social norms, but criminals ignore that)
14:41:47 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	Livi- Sand Talk is a recco book
14:41:49 From Jean Marie Altema To Everyone:
	Certainly, regulation isn't about blocking. It's important to create a safe environment that benefits all stakeholders.
14:42:28 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	AI impersonating humans must be illegal
14:42:59 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	To what Jean wrote: agreed. A rives does not stop to flow if it has borders
14:43:02 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	ooh what is Sand talk? I haven't come across it
14:43:39 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	*river
14:45:14 From Pat To Everyone:
	Policy rather than regulation seems like a good emphasis
14:46:30 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	AI knows it has Bias due to the data sets it has been trained on but, it can't recognise what the bias are
14:47:14 From Pat To Everyone:
	Foreshadowing a later panel, perhaps, but if we treated an AI  as a legal person, like we do with companies, we have the legal frameworks in place already, although companies are seldom really held to account fully.
14:48:01 From Pat To Everyone:
	(obviously you'd have to link the AI with... someone; probably the company or natural person who developed it)
14:51:07 From Pat To Everyone:
	The badly engineered car example...
14:53:19 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I'm not sure that people can normally recognise their biases, let alone what those biases are
14:55:02 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I guess it is quite difficult, and already a big win if we are aware that we are packed of biasesâ¦.
	But having them is not bad, is natural, but to decide and judge  based on them, I think
14:55:18 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I guess it is quite ..." with ð
14:55:20 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I guess it is quite ..." with ð
14:55:22 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Removed a ð reaction from "I guess it is quite ..."
14:56:17 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I'm not sure that pe..." with ð
14:56:24 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I'm not sure that pe..." with ðð½
14:57:24 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Foreshadowing a late..." with ðð½
14:57:38 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Foreshadowing a late..." with ð¡
14:57:40 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Removed a ðð½ reaction from "Foreshadowing a late..."
14:57:56 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	the issue with not addressing Bias, either in yourself or technology is that it perpetuates stereotypes and leads to prejudice.
14:58:10 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "(Lecturer in social,..." with ðð½
14:58:44 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "You guys might find ..." with ðð¼
14:58:53 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Online peeps . Please add your thoughts on the question  here and I will add them to pallet OR add your thoughts and comments on Padlet . Big Thanks.
14:59:53 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "the issue with not a..." with ð
15:01:32 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Yes, agree Livi; although I agree with Andres it is natural to have biases, if we don't recognize them and work to avoid having them influence us in decisions, it leads to bad decisions, but also that continuing problem of stereotypes and hence prejudice, which is then self-perpetuating
15:04:53 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Yes, agree Livi; alt..." with ð¯
15:05:01 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Agreed. Because passing it perpetuates it. So, we have it, thatâs natural, but we put it in our products, and that starts a problem. Our products make it (as usually happens with uncontextualized info) in kind of a truth. So we have to pass also the awareness of bias to avoid their perpetuation?
15:05:22 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Yes, agree Livi; alt..." with ðð¼
15:08:25 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	Transparent provenance of IP sourcing
15:09:08 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	In the case of social networks, a playground for our prejudices and esterotipes, we know - if we are lucid users - that we should not believe allâ¦
	But in products where the source is so indirect like AI tools, we loose of sight the human bias and are not capable of fighting it.
15:09:31 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	?
15:10:07 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	We have to be aware of it so that we can be better critical thinkers in our professional practice. Awareness is the first step, you then have to find ways to reduce the bias (with decision makers having relevant lived experience), then you apply that new learning to make your product better for the end user's experience.
15:10:17 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "We have to be aware ..." with â¤ï¸
15:12:05 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "We have to be aware ..." with ð
15:12:13 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	we totally do lose sight of the bias with AI tools but, with AI hallucinations, it is bringing it to the forefront.
15:13:20 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I think most people seem to totally lose sight of bias anyway, without AI being anywhere near the problem.  Look at the way some political movements influence folk who don't exercise their critical thinking powers.
15:13:36 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "In the case of socia..." with ð¯
15:13:41 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think most people ..." with ð¯
15:13:50 From HTaylor To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think most people â¦" with ð
15:14:12 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Of  course, there are also those who then use AI to capitalise on that human weakness
15:16:54 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Agreed. There always will be. 
	To be true, I think (quite optimistically) thatâs a minority, what troubles me more is our own sympathy for our weaknesses- like willful ignorance, or willful lack of awareness :/
15:19:05 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I think there is a mix of concerns there; if we can get everyone to deal with their own weaknesses, the problems largely go away, because an AI will have to adjust to behave itself to continue being useful.  However, I think that is an unlikely outcome, sadly.  I know I can't identify all of my own biases, try though I might.
	The other side is the disproportional impact the bad actors can have, by influencing millions through social media (or, indeed, through legacy media)
15:21:10 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think there is a m..." with ðð¼
15:23:22 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think there is a m..." with ð¯
15:23:56 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Right. Anyway, I think, policies, frameworks etc should not only address malicious intentions, but also harm inflicted by mechanisms and human automatisms driven without bad intentions. I consider this possibility of what I would call self-inflicted harm equally relevant to be looked upon.
15:25:56 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	But if I show my jk Rowling work to open AI then Iâve informed them this needs to be fixed, where is the law on once ai company has been informed it can still provide plagiarized content that open ai is then liable?
15:27:28 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Standing and empowered Ethics Committees operating with a Code of Ethics that transparently describes the shared moral framework and relevant legal frameworks applicable to the adjudication of each instance of Ethical Choice - ethics officers trained in Algorithm Ethics
15:27:55 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "Standing and empower..."
	
	Data ethics may be more important, but yes.
15:28:11 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Independent Audit of AI Systems is a 4 line of defence model that is operated over the lifecycle of an AAA System
15:28:18 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	For example, in another area: if I can cure trauma with VR, I can also cause it. It can be due simply to ignorance of its emotional power, but ignorance does not save me of responsability. If I am the teacher of VR development with did not tell well about the emotional consequences, am I accountable too. I know, this is quite far away of the kind of problem we are talking now, but I believe often a threath is to think that harm comes only from âbad peopleâ, because it projects the problems far from our own agency.
15:30:32 From Pat To Everyone:
	Trust... can't trust internal ethics committees (without them building that trust up)
15:30:39 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	I think its important to emphasise that not all ethics is or can be codified into law. But can have consequences to humanity and organisations .
15:30:52 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	disagree Pat - we should talk
15:31:36 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	Agree with Ryan, thatâs was certifications and audits are for
15:31:39 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	And that the conversation is important to be held perpetually a we mature with AI and machine learning.
15:32:24 From Pat To Everyone:
	Then you are trusting the external audits and certifiers instead, which is easier/better to do
15:32:40 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	plus transparency and disclosure Pat
15:33:01 From Pat To Everyone:
	And those seldom exist in internal systems, including ethics committees, in my experience
15:33:30 From Pat To Everyone:
	There are too many conflicts of interest, in general, for it to be an entirely trustworthy system without external auditing
15:36:20 From Pat To Everyone:
	Ryan and Jaime - I have to go afk for a while; happy to follow up if you want, you can find my email online if so
15:36:23 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	To the ethical groups> I believe that transparency can help to build trust to them. Of course there always be conflicts, but on the long term, it seems to me as the strongest strategy to foster it. A little like in OpenSourceâ¦
15:36:23 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	I have to agree with you Pat, unless there is an internal system that is reported to an external body, such as HMRC for finances, It would be difficulty to ensuring a standard of Audit. However, there is also the issue of what would happen if that external body ended up being influenced by corruption.
15:36:52 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Thank you all for the conversation!
15:38:27 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	If anyone would like to connect, feel free to add me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/livi-a-4178b68a/
15:38:44 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "If anyone would like..." with ð
15:40:01 From Team MKAI To Everyone:
	Remote students please can you put your video on
15:46:33 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thank you all for th..." with ð

# data[].attributes.headline
Answer from AI (Chat GPT 3.5) . Is it ok for an AI to flirt with you as a woman? and as a man?

# data[].attributes.subject
Answer from AI (Chat GPT 3.5) . Is it ok for an AI to flirt with you as a woman? and as a man?

# data[].attributes.body
AI tools should be designed to prioritize user comfort and respect their boundaries. Flirting by an AI can be perceived as inappropriate or uncomfortable for many users. Whether you are a woman or a man, it's important that AI tools maintain a respectful and professional demeanor.

The design and behavior of AI tools should consider the potential for misunderstandings and uncomfortable interactions. AI should respect social and cultural norms, and developers should take care to ensure that AI systems do not engage in behavior that could be perceived as harassment, discrimination, or discomfort.

Ultimately, the appropriateness of an AI tool's behavior depends on the specific context, the user's preferences, and the intended purpose of the AI. It's important for developers to create AI systems that are user-friendly, considerate, and adhere to ethical guidelines. If you encounter an AI tool that makes you uncomfortable, you should provide feedback to the developers so they can improve the system's behavior.

# data[].attributes.body
AI tools should be designed to prioritize user comfort and respect their boundaries. Flirting by an AI can be perceived as inappropriate or uncomfortable for many users. Whether you are a woman or a man, it's important that AI tools maintain a respectful and professional demeanor.

The design and behavior of AI tools should consider the potential for misunderstandings and uncomfortable interactions. AI should respect social and cultural norms, and developers should take care to ensure that AI systems do not engage in behavior that could be perceived as harassment, discrimination, or discomfort.

Ultimately, the appropriateness of an AI tool's behavior depends on the specific context, the user's preferences, and the intended purpose of the AI. It's important for developers to create AI systems that are user-friendly, considerate, and adhere to ethical guidelines. If you encounter an AI tool that makes you uncomfortable, you should provide feedback to the developers so they can improve the system's behavior.

# data[].attributes.body
AI tools should be designed to prioritize user comfort and respect their boundaries. Flirting by an AI can be perceived as inappropriate or uncomfortable for many users. Whether you are a woman or a man, it's important that AI tools maintain a respectful and professional demeanor.

The design and behavior of AI tools should consider the potential for misunderstandings and uncomfortable interactions. AI should respect social and cultural norms, and developers should take care to ensure that AI systems do not engage in behavior that could be perceived as harassment, discrimination, or discomfort.

Ultimately, the appropriateness of an AI tool's behavior depends on the specific context, the user's preferences, and the intended purpose of the AI. It's important for developers to create AI systems that are user-friendly, considerate, and adhere to ethical guidelines. If you encounter an AI tool that makes you uncomfortable, you should provide feedback to the developers so they can improve the system's behavior.

# data[].attributes.body
I have no idea what causes this or where to find answers but, my theory is the AI training data has conflicting information, how does it make a decision on what is the correct answer? what are the critical thinking processes the AI goes through to ensure quality of response? and why doesn't the AI share its critical thinking process when asked? why is this being hidden/ blocked?

# data[].attributes.body
Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 16:17)

HUMAN OVERSIGHT - Ensuring that Humans are in-the-loop, on-the-loop, in-Command, or available for post hoc review of outputs of the AAA Systems as appropriate and applicable

Kishen Seyjagat joined as a guest

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 16:18)

I'm not sure we have any systems at all which don't have a human in the loop, at some point. I think the issue is making sure that the humans in the loop are able to veto and mandate retraining of AI if necessary.

Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 16:19)

Let's be careful with our definitions - human-in-the-loop means that an AI CANNOT achieve a decision without the human

we definitely do NOT mean that AI's should all have a human-in-the-loop. Imagine a stop light for traffic

# data[].attributes.body
Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 16:27)

Human-in-Command

A natural person assigned by a system Provider or Deployer to act as no less than a 3rd line of defence governance Human-on-the-Loop, knowing the capacity and limitations of the system, possessing sufficient training for the regular operation including the identification of anomalies, dysfunctions and unexpected performance.

Human-in-the-loop

any model that is unable to offer an answer or conclude processing without human intervention

Human-on-the-loop

Human supervision and/or control of AI, algorithmic or autonomous systems, however the system is able to conclude processing without the need for human intervention

hopefully those definitions are helpful and distinct from each other

Pat (1 Nov 2023, 16:27)

Ryan, where are those definitions from - I like them, but would need to persuade others to use them

# data[].attributes.body
Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 16:28)
They are ForHumanity definitions crowdsourced from the literature and the EU AI Act (for human-in-command)
 
Pat (1 Nov 2023, 16:28)
I'll cite your site then, thanks

# data[].attributes.body
Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 16:29)
that is the 4th part of the required human oversight "or available for post hoc review of outputs of the AAA Systems as appropriate and applicable"
Nick Bostrom joined as a guest
 
Ryan Carrier (1 Nov 2023, 16:31)
What Rebecca is referring to is called a "Necessity Assessment" and is required under GDPR when Personal Data
 
Pat (1 Nov 2023, 16:36)
Gaps between ethics and law are always an issue, and change over time even within a single country/culture

# data[].attributes.body
Pat (1 Nov 2023, 16:37)
Risk based decision making often appears to lead to breaches of regulation, if the risk of being caught and costs involved of being caught are insufficient.

# data[].attributes.headline
The video was no longer working, so this may seem disconnected to the current topic, but what I’ve gotten from today’s event, is that we do need regular feedback as AI grows, and it’s important to remind ourselves of the data provenance. So, with that in mind, are we suggesting that the same regulatory bodies that guided the data that was used to build these LLMs, which do show biases, should be the same/similar regulatory bodies to carry on this work ? 

# data[].attributes.subject
The video was no longer working, so this may seem disconnected to the current topic, but what I’ve gotten from today’s event, is that we do need regular feedback as AI grows, and it’s important to remind ourselves of the data provenance. So, with that in mind, are we suggesting that the same regulatory bodies that guided the data that was used to build these LLMs, which do show biases, should be the same/similar regulatory bodies to carry on this work ? 

# data[].attributes.body
Considering the online safety bill, there is a need to allow the reporting of certain content.

As we clearly saw with the hogwarts example from Paul, we are in a situation whereby  ai can identify illegal actions.

Should we regulate that ai companies have a responsibility to report these actions?

# data[].attributes.body
Technology is an autocracy https://medium.com/@ForHumanity_Org/technology-is-an-autocracy-and-the-risk-from-externalities-are-growing-4027f7227a24

# data[].attributes.attachment_link.readable_text
10:56:11 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Are you on Vimeo?
10:56:21 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	You need to leave it if so
10:56:40 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	We seem to be fully working this side
10:56:45 From Louise To Everyone:
	Im not on Vimeo
10:56:59 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	I can hear the room and the room can hear me when I log in
10:57:45 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	You're not on Louise
10:57:46 From Louise To Everyone:
	Looks like its muted from your end
10:58:02 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Promise it's all working this side, it's definitely an issue for you
10:58:24 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	You're not on the audio, you need to join
10:58:32 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Try without the earphones
10:58:36 From Richard Foster-Fletcher To Everyone:
	Check your mic
11:30:41 From Louise To Everyone:
	On Vimeo we cannot see the pictures
11:30:52 From Louise To Everyone:
	Can we make the video be more roaming
11:40:35 From Team MKAI To Everyone:
	If you can hear we are starting the panel soon so pelase turn on cameras
12:09:30 From Michael Ekpechue To Everyone:
	I have contribution to the trust conversation
13:45:28 From Faizan Abbasi To Everyone:
	Question: What are the "dark sides" of the hyper regulation, that the mainstream media or folks not talking about?
	
	Sorry I'm at work so can't speak
13:47:51 From Team MKAI To Everyone:
	Please can you all unmute
13:48:23 From Team MKAI To Louise(Privately):
	You do not have any audio connected, please can you connect a device
13:48:57 From Team MKAI To Louise(Privately):
	We cannot hear you Louise
14:17:55 From Pat To Everyone:
	(Lecturer in social, legal and ethical aspects of computing with a special interest in AI): Great sessions.  We need to be cautious about who makes the laws (and the Civil Contingencies Act is a case in point about how law may not be as good as it could be)
14:19:54 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	You guys might find this interesting: First copyright suit concerning ai (stability.ai). generation of protected content. I found it out on Facebook, so I need to verify this case, but the link is safe, https://drive.google.com/file/d/19oLqGeezldu1de366DMGrVYJsKXDgJS2/view?fbclid=IwAR39gng9Yg58glXMsSYWkl74etjqKl8P540FzyZHxtq4uBEmaY-0iWlmlA8
14:21:03 From Hande Donmez To Everyone:
	Reacted to "(Lecturer in social,â¦" with â¤ï¸
14:23:02 From Vibhav Mithal To Everyone:
	Thank you Livi for sharing that. This is an order in one of the pending cases, and is instructive to us for learn how the Courts are looking at this.
14:23:05 From Pat To Everyone:
	Louise's point about keeping the human creativity is important.  And I think that also related back to trust as discussed earlier; we need to establish ways of using the technology ("AI") that allows us to be able to trust in the ways we work with it, almost irrespective of whether the underlying tech (algorithms and data and intentions of the 'owners' of it) is itself trustworthy.
14:23:48 From Vibhav Mithal To Louise(Privately):
	Very good to meet you ! Thank you for your points.
14:24:11 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thank you Livi for s..." with ð
14:25:28 From Pat To Everyone:
	Will regulation make any sense if it isn't in some way 'global'?  There is obviously a need for regional/cultural variation, but that also risks undermining the usefulness of the regulations.
14:28:48 From Pat To Everyone:
	Would you also have the regulation prevent fan-fiction created by humans?
14:36:16 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	I think too there will be differences. One thing is the open development which always is slightly wild, but also the established companies, which are more affected by regulations. And regulations also give a direction
14:36:50 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	So I certainly think absence of regulation will be a problem
14:38:39 From Pat To Everyone:
	Regulation is nothing without enforcement (although that can be enforcement through social norms, but criminals ignore that)
14:41:47 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	Livi- Sand Talk is a recco book
14:41:49 From Jean Marie Altema To Everyone:
	Certainly, regulation isn't about blocking. It's important to create a safe environment that benefits all stakeholders.
14:42:28 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	AI impersonating humans must be illegal
14:42:59 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	To what Jean wrote: agreed. A rives does not stop to flow if it has borders
14:43:02 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	ooh what is Sand talk? I haven't come across it
14:43:39 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	*river
14:45:14 From Pat To Everyone:
	Policy rather than regulation seems like a good emphasis
14:46:30 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	AI knows it has Bias due to the data sets it has been trained on but, it can't recognise what the bias are
14:47:14 From Pat To Everyone:
	Foreshadowing a later panel, perhaps, but if we treated an AI  as a legal person, like we do with companies, we have the legal frameworks in place already, although companies are seldom really held to account fully.
14:48:01 From Pat To Everyone:
	(obviously you'd have to link the AI with... someone; probably the company or natural person who developed it)
14:51:07 From Pat To Everyone:
	The badly engineered car example...
14:53:19 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I'm not sure that people can normally recognise their biases, let alone what those biases are
14:55:02 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I guess it is quite difficult, and already a big win if we are aware that we are packed of biasesâ¦.
	But having them is not bad, is natural, but to decide and judge  based on them, I think
14:55:18 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I guess it is quite ..." with ð
14:55:20 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I guess it is quite ..." with ð
14:55:22 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Removed a ð reaction from "I guess it is quite ..."
14:56:17 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I'm not sure that pe..." with ð
14:56:24 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I'm not sure that pe..." with ðð½
14:57:24 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Foreshadowing a late..." with ðð½
14:57:38 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Foreshadowing a late..." with ð¡
14:57:40 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Removed a ðð½ reaction from "Foreshadowing a late..."
14:57:56 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	the issue with not addressing Bias, either in yourself or technology is that it perpetuates stereotypes and leads to prejudice.
14:58:10 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "(Lecturer in social,..." with ðð½
14:58:44 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "You guys might find ..." with ðð¼
14:58:53 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Online peeps . Please add your thoughts on the question  here and I will add them to pallet OR add your thoughts and comments on Padlet . Big Thanks.
14:59:53 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "the issue with not a..." with ð
15:01:32 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Yes, agree Livi; although I agree with Andres it is natural to have biases, if we don't recognize them and work to avoid having them influence us in decisions, it leads to bad decisions, but also that continuing problem of stereotypes and hence prejudice, which is then self-perpetuating
15:04:53 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Yes, agree Livi; alt..." with ð¯
15:05:01 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Agreed. Because passing it perpetuates it. So, we have it, thatâs natural, but we put it in our products, and that starts a problem. Our products make it (as usually happens with uncontextualized info) in kind of a truth. So we have to pass also the awareness of bias to avoid their perpetuation?
15:05:22 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Yes, agree Livi; alt..." with ðð¼
15:08:25 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	Transparent provenance of IP sourcing
15:09:08 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	In the case of social networks, a playground for our prejudices and esterotipes, we know - if we are lucid users - that we should not believe allâ¦
	But in products where the source is so indirect like AI tools, we loose of sight the human bias and are not capable of fighting it.
15:09:31 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	?
15:10:07 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	We have to be aware of it so that we can be better critical thinkers in our professional practice. Awareness is the first step, you then have to find ways to reduce the bias (with decision makers having relevant lived experience), then you apply that new learning to make your product better for the end user's experience.
15:10:17 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "We have to be aware ..." with â¤ï¸
15:12:05 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "We have to be aware ..." with ð
15:12:13 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	we totally do lose sight of the bias with AI tools but, with AI hallucinations, it is bringing it to the forefront.
15:13:20 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I think most people seem to totally lose sight of bias anyway, without AI being anywhere near the problem.  Look at the way some political movements influence folk who don't exercise their critical thinking powers.
15:13:36 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "In the case of socia..." with ð¯
15:13:41 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think most people ..." with ð¯
15:13:50 From HTaylor To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think most people â¦" with ð
15:14:12 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Of  course, there are also those who then use AI to capitalise on that human weakness
15:16:54 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Agreed. There always will be. 
	To be true, I think (quite optimistically) thatâs a minority, what troubles me more is our own sympathy for our weaknesses- like willful ignorance, or willful lack of awareness :/
15:19:05 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	I think there is a mix of concerns there; if we can get everyone to deal with their own weaknesses, the problems largely go away, because an AI will have to adjust to behave itself to continue being useful.  However, I think that is an unlikely outcome, sadly.  I know I can't identify all of my own biases, try though I might.
	The other side is the disproportional impact the bad actors can have, by influencing millions through social media (or, indeed, through legacy media)
15:21:10 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think there is a m..." with ðð¼
15:23:22 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I think there is a m..." with ð¯
15:23:56 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	Right. Anyway, I think, policies, frameworks etc should not only address malicious intentions, but also harm inflicted by mechanisms and human automatisms driven without bad intentions. I consider this possibility of what I would call self-inflicted harm equally relevant to be looked upon.
15:25:56 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	But if I show my jk Rowling work to open AI then Iâve informed them this needs to be fixed, where is the law on once ai company has been informed it can still provide plagiarized content that open ai is then liable?
15:27:28 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Standing and empowered Ethics Committees operating with a Code of Ethics that transparently describes the shared moral framework and relevant legal frameworks applicable to the adjudication of each instance of Ethical Choice - ethics officers trained in Algorithm Ethics
15:27:55 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "Standing and empower..."
	
	Data ethics may be more important, but yes.
15:28:11 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Independent Audit of AI Systems is a 4 line of defence model that is operated over the lifecycle of an AAA System
15:28:18 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Replying to "AI knows it has Bias..."
	
	For example, in another area: if I can cure trauma with VR, I can also cause it. It can be due simply to ignorance of its emotional power, but ignorance does not save me of responsability. If I am the teacher of VR development with did not tell well about the emotional consequences, am I accountable too. I know, this is quite far away of the kind of problem we are talking now, but I believe often a threath is to think that harm comes only from âbad peopleâ, because it projects the problems far from our own agency.
15:30:32 From Pat To Everyone:
	Trust... can't trust internal ethics committees (without them building that trust up)
15:30:39 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	I think its important to emphasise that not all ethics is or can be codified into law. But can have consequences to humanity and organisations .
15:30:52 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	disagree Pat - we should talk
15:31:36 From Jaime Schwarz To Everyone:
	Agree with Ryan, thatâs was certifications and audits are for
15:31:39 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	And that the conversation is important to be held perpetually a we mature with AI and machine learning.
15:32:24 From Pat To Everyone:
	Then you are trusting the external audits and certifiers instead, which is easier/better to do
15:32:40 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	plus transparency and disclosure Pat
15:33:01 From Pat To Everyone:
	And those seldom exist in internal systems, including ethics committees, in my experience
15:33:30 From Pat To Everyone:
	There are too many conflicts of interest, in general, for it to be an entirely trustworthy system without external auditing
15:36:20 From Pat To Everyone:
	Ryan and Jaime - I have to go afk for a while; happy to follow up if you want, you can find my email online if so
15:36:23 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	To the ethical groups> I believe that transparency can help to build trust to them. Of course there always be conflicts, but on the long term, it seems to me as the strongest strategy to foster it. A little like in OpenSourceâ¦
15:36:23 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	I have to agree with you Pat, unless there is an internal system that is reported to an external body, such as HMRC for finances, It would be difficulty to ensuring a standard of Audit. However, there is also the issue of what would happen if that external body ended up being influenced by corruption.
15:36:52 From Andres Leon-Geyer To Everyone:
	Thank you all for the conversation!
15:38:27 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	If anyone would like to connect, feel free to add me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/livi-a-4178b68a/
15:38:44 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "If anyone would like..." with ð
15:40:01 From Team MKAI To Everyone:
	Remote students please can you put your video on
15:46:33 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thank you all for th..." with ð
15:47:30 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	AI by it's statistical definition is EXCLUSIVE, it dislikes anomalies, outliers and exceptions
15:47:37 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	I have an AI usage policy on my website that explains what AI I use and for what: https://www.muchaduabout.com/artificial-intelligence-usage-disclosure
	I would love to know you thoughts on this. I also include in the captions which images are AI
15:48:12 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	An Inclusivity Risk Assessment is necessary to balance between inclusion and accuracy - they are unfortunately necessary tradeoffs in our current model construction
15:48:27 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	What do the students think about using it for research?
15:57:37 From Jean Marie Altema To Everyone:
	If anyone is interested in participating in the upcoming music and tech conference in Miami, visit https://ww.themusictechconference.com for more details. You can also apply to speak.
16:10:08 From Peter Joyce To Louise(Privately):
	Thank you Louise - I lost connecction.
16:14:20 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisewilmarsdotterbjork/ feel free to connecting ! Id love to stay in touch
16:17:19 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	HUMAN OVERSIGHT - Ensuring that Humans are in-the-loop, on-the-loop, in-Command, or available for post hoc review of outputs of the AAA Systems as appropriate and applicable
16:18:39 From Pat To Everyone:
	I'm not sure we have any systems at all which don't have a human in the loop, at some point.  I think the issue is making sure that the humans in the loop are able to veto and mandate retraining of AI if necessary.
16:19:18 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Let's be careful with our definitions - human-in-the-loop means that an AI CANNOT achieve a decision without the human
16:19:54 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	we definitely do NOT mean that AI's should all have a human-in-the-loop.  Imagine a stop light for traffic
16:20:46 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	The Children's Code is a magnificent law governing the interface between Children's Data and their online interfcaes
16:21:19 From Pat To Everyone:
	That isn't the definition that would be used around here... sorry!  In the loop would mean that the humans have to be involved in the generation of content/decisions, not that the system cannot act without them; post-decision review is still in the loop if they are able to modify the way the decisions are made in the future (and it depends on the system, yes)
16:21:40 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Hi, Emer Butler here. I want to circle back to a comment made by an audience member earlier that I think has enormous value. An idea to truly foster trust between end users, tech giants, and governments: democratize all large model training datasets. Datasets used by those actors who build the foundation models deployed, should be mandated by government to make them open-source + accessible to the public domain.
	
	
	
	How realistic is this? How do we, as "the people", action this?
16:22:16 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi, Emer Butler here..."
	
	This question is on Padlet . Anyone in the panel that can answer?
16:23:08 From Pat To Everyone:
	More afraid of humans here too ( but that can mean bad AIs...)
16:26:42 From Pat To Louise(Privately):
	Hi - thanks for all this by they way; I'd like to share the content as much as possible with my students later (after Christmas); will that be possible?
16:27:14 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Human-in-Command
	A natural person assigned by a system Provider or Deployer to act as no less than a 3rd line of defence governance Human-on-the-Loop,  knowing the capacity and limitations of the system, possessing sufficient training for the regular operation including the identification of anomalies, dysfunctions and unexpected performance. 
	Human-in-the-loop
	any model that is unable to offer an answer or conclude processing without human intervention
	Human-on-the-loop
	Human supervision and/or control of AI, algorithmic or autonomous systems, however the system is able to conclude processing without the need for human intervention
16:27:29 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	hopefully those definitions are helpful and distinct from each other
16:27:58 From Pat To Everyone:
	Ryan, where are those definitions from - I like them, but would need to persuade others to use them
16:28:29 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	They are ForHumanity definitions crowdsourced from the literature and the EU AI Act (for human-in-command)
16:28:41 From Atif To Everyone:
	It might be that the complex decisions or a process where decisions can lead to serious consequences may need a human to check the the output of the AI before the final decision is made.
16:28:53 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "They are ForHumanity..."
	
	I'll cite your site then, thanks
16:28:58 From Louise To Pat(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi - thanks for all ..."
	
	Are you soon the. Padlet? There are info placed there .
16:29:21 From Louise To Pat(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi - thanks for all ..."
	
	Vimeo will be online.
16:29:25 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Reacted to "I'll cite your site ..." with ð
16:29:35 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	that is the 4th part of the required human oversight "or available for post hoc review of outputs of the AAA Systems as appropriate and applicable"
16:29:55 From Pat To Louise(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi - thanks for all ..."
	
	I'm a ticketless interloper so don't have the padlet.  The vimeo will be fine, I think.  Thanks!
16:29:55 From Louise To Pat(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi - thanks for all ..."
	
	And thank you so much for your contributions.
16:30:03 From Pat To Louise(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi - thanks for all ..."
	
	You are very welcome.
16:31:06 From Louise To Pat(Privately):
	Reacted to "You are very welcome..." with ð
16:31:30 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	What Rebecca is referring to is called a "Necessity Assessment" and is required under GDPR when Personal Data
16:36:16 From Pat To Everyone:
	Gaps between ethics and law are always an issue, and change over time even within a single country/culture
16:36:44 From HTaylor To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Gaps between ethics â¦" with ð
16:37:45 From Pat To Everyone:
	Risk based decision making often appears to lead to breaches of regulation, if the risk of being caught and costs involved of being caught are insufficient.
16:39:24 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Thus the merit of Independent third party audits... proactive, measurable compliance adjudicated by an unconflicted group operating on behalf of society
16:39:29 From Pat To Everyone:
	Is there an appetite for non-governmental publicly answerable and available ethics boards to help with these issues, I wonder?
16:39:44 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thus the merit of In..." with ð
16:40:10 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Here is very valuable chat so far in one doc .. for those interested . Ill do another at the end of today too .
16:41:40 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	Is there an appetite for non-governmental publicly answerable and available ethics boards to help with these issues, I wonder?
	Not IMHO, they and their derivations keep getting fired by both the public and private sectors regardless of geography.
16:43:26 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Is there an appetite..." with ð
16:44:35 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Hi all
16:45:16 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Workplace impacts by AI is a key issue
16:46:37 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Limitations of the use in hours of screens is very important.
16:47:19 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Hi all" with ð
16:47:26 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Reacted to Hi all with "ð"
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16:48:07 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Deskilling and Digital Literacy are two factors to be considered.
16:48:44 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Is there an appetite..." with ð
16:49:43 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	I saw that this week there is the 1st World Meeting about AI
16:50:10 From Debbie Reynolds To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Deskilling and Digit..." with ð
16:56:25 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Human touch is the solution!
16:56:50 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	We need to empower people
16:57:48 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Protection is needed for the income of populations due the disruption on some niches by automation.
16:59:31 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	oogle.fr/books/edition/Superintelligence/7_H8AwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=nick+bostrom+superintelligence&printsec=frontcover
17:00:21 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Nick Bostrom Book! Superintelligence!
17:01:46 From Livi Adu To Everyone:
	Can anyone find the link to the UN white paper on AI that was discussed earlier?
17:02:39 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Open Source is dead under the EU AI Act - someone has to "own" it from a liability perspective
17:05:40 From Louise To Everyone:
	Replying to "Can anyone find the ..."
	
	Ive seen your request but Iâm unable to help you. Anyone else?
17:05:47 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Technology is an autocracy https://medium.com/@ForHumanity_Org/technology-is-an-autocracy-and-the-risk-from-externalities-are-growing-4027f7227a24
17:06:25 From Jean Marie Altema To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Technology is an aut..." with ð
17:07:07 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	This rich chat for your convenience:
17:07:44 From Peter Joyce To Louise(Privately):
	Just in case you did not see it Louise I have raised my hand. If you can introduce my request to speak I would appreciate it as I do not want to but in.
17:08:54 From Louise To Peter Joyce(Privately):
	Reacted to "Just in case you did..." with ð
17:09:47 From Louise To Peter Joyce(Privately):
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17:10:18 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Great article!
17:11:00 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	There is a greater hostile Digital environment of Cyberthreats risks too!
17:11:53 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Conscious is not replicable yet!
17:13:02 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Even if GPT we consider an AGI it is different to consider a sensient being.
17:13:29 From Pat To Everyone:
	Not yet, Renato, and possibly never, but we can be fairly sure that we can get ever closer to something which we perceive as conscious.  I think we need to consider treating those "similarly" to humans, though, because of what it says about ourselves, and the impact it has on us if we treat apparently conscious things badly.
17:13:34 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Regarding the issue Technocracy is a big issue.
17:13:41 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Agree!
17:14:11 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	There is a new book called Technofeudalism.
17:14:28 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	From a Greek politician
17:15:35 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	This book explain how the big Cloud companies
17:15:53 From Pat To Everyone:
	I do have to laugh at myself when I see that I always use please and thank you when "talking" to chatGPT and its ilk, though.
17:16:12 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Become a center phenomena of Capitalism.
17:16:37 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	And it makes us stuck
17:16:54 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	The reality is the 'business' use cases against humanity - especially the poor and vulnerable has existed from the beginning of time. Even before machines. The powerful will exploit wherever opportunity presents itself. We can't afford to believe enterprise will work against their own interests to benefit humanity without stick incentives like regulation and third party independent audits.
17:16:57 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	With the bias of digital systems.
17:17:46 From Pat To Everyone:
	Replying to "The reality is the '..."
	
	Agree, although I have the same reservations about political entities as you outline about commercial enterprises, unfortunately.
17:20:09 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Ban Autonomous AI Currency/Capital usage/Holding IP rights https://medium.com/@ForHumanity_Org/ban-autonomous-ai-currency-capital-usage-9951d675b815
17:26:33 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Returning people who are sub-human capabilities, to human level capability is a miracle (every time).  However, all these tools are likely to be used to create superhuman capabilities and that is where the problems begin - Transhumanism is a going to create a schism in humanity and we are ill-equipped to handle this challenge
17:28:29 From Pat To Everyone:
	As with almost all things, I think the commercial exploitation is likely to reinforce man's inhumanity to man (and other sentient beings)
17:30:29 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	Full chat conversation
17:30:30 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	Agree with both of you Ryan and Pat.
17:32:02 From Ryan Carrier To Everyone:
	Thanks to everyone - it was a great session.  Congrats to MKAI and all organizers
17:32:11 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thanks to everyone -..." with ð
17:32:17 From Jean Marie Altema To Everyone:
	High level conversation
17:32:22 From Pat To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thanks to everyone -..." with ð
17:32:28 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "High level conversat..." with ð
17:32:40 From Jean Marie Altema To Everyone:
	Thanks MKAI. I look forward to collaborating in this process
17:32:41 From Pat To Everyone:
	It's been great - I  have to thank my student who put me on to it!
17:32:51 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	Reacted to "It's been great - I ..." with ð
17:32:51 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "It's been great - I ..." with â¤ï¸
17:32:59 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	I'm a skeptical regarding Transhimanism.
17:33:05 From renatosantanna@gmail.com To Everyone:
	Great event!
17:33:12 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Hi Louise!
	Vous parlez franÃ§ais?
17:33:15 From Louise To Jean Marie Altema(Privately):
	Reacted to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..." with ð
17:33:33 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Reacted to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..." with ð
17:33:35 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Removed a ð reaction from "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
17:33:37 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Reacted to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..." with ð
17:33:40 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Removed a ð reaction from "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
17:34:05 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Reacted to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..." with ð
17:35:03 From Louise To Jean Marie Altema(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
	
	Oui mais malheureusement pas tres bien â¦ lol and my keyboard refuse all  french â¦ ð
17:35:33 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
	
	Ahh ok. Itâs a French name. 
	I understand.
17:35:58 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
	
	It would be great to connect.
	https://www.linkedin.com/in/jean-marie-altema/
17:36:10 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Reacted to "Oui mais malheureuse..." with ð
17:36:12 From Louise To Jean Marie Altema(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
	
	Ah but I am Swedish ð
17:36:30 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
	
	Very nice.
17:36:57 From Louise To Jean Marie Altema(Privately):
	Reacted to "Very nice." with ð
17:37:08 From Louise To Jean Marie Altema(Privately):
	Replying to "Hi Louise!
	Vous parl..."
	
	Connected!
17:37:32 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	@Louise, would it be too late to ask if the final panel want to stay if they can share one last message in ONE sentence with the audience?  If they are hanging around anyway....
17:38:20 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	Thank you to all!
17:38:20 From Jean Marie Altema To Louise(Privately):
	Reacted to "Connected!" with ð
17:38:54 From Louise To Team MKAI(Privately):
	https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisewilmarsdotterbjork/ Do connect!
17:39:17 From Louise To Everyone:
	Reacted to "Thank you to all!" with ð
17:39:26 From Louise To Everyone:
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17:40:28 From Louise To Everyone:
	Replying to "@Louise, would it be..."
	
	I think I might fight bigger wills . Here .. I will if I get a change .
17:41:23 From Peter Joyce To Everyone:
	Thank you all
17:41:46 From Gisele Waters To Everyone:
	Take care all.
17:41:46 From Pat To Everyone:
	Thanks all!