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After watching the video, I can say I mostly agree with Alfie Kohn's argument. Grades often take the focus off learning and put it on performance instead. When students are worried about marks, they tend to focus on doing what’s required to get the grade rather than actually understanding the material. I see this in my day to day teaching with my students. When you add in AI and personal factors, you have to then consider what your goals are in teaching students. Do you want them to get high grades and have them feel a sense of achievement? Or do you want them to feel personal and professional growth?

That being said, I don’t think grades are completely useless. They can provide a quick snapshot of how a student is doing. Is can show you trends and give you information about the larger group. The issue, to Kohn and to myself, is when grades become the main reason students engage in learning.

I want my students to be motivated by interest and relevance. Learning is deeper and more meaningful, especially in the field of Early Childhood Education. I want to see my students be able to problem solve, understand child development, know how to appropriately guide behaviour, and understand underlying principles that are the foundation of Early Childhood Education.

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Well I am very happy to see that grades don't apply to this assignment as I forgot about this course all together.

I fully agree with this video as this is what I have done my whole career, maybe not when I was in high school but for sure when I went back to school. I aimed only to get 64.5% total as they had to round up to 65, so I would pass the class. So my assignments I would only do as much as I needed in order to pass with the minimal.

There is way too much put onto students, and they are doing sketchy things to pass, but they have to jump through so many hoops.

If we could go to this way of education, where we are just saying you have to do the assignments but show me your learning through it and not to put a number on it. As I do believe that there are many of students who are just doing the thing in order to do the easiest grade they can so they can get going. I agree not many take these opportunities to challenge themselves, they are doing the easiest way they can.

I really like this video, and I am much aligned with this gentleman's point of view, it is also what I try to teach in my own classroom. I find that formal testing and the like really brings out a lot of anxiety and it doesn't help show their full knowledge on the topic. I have found it is very helpful, so if I find that they can show me that they know the stuff then I will assign a certain number for them.

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Initial Reaction to 'Why Grades Shouldn't Exist'

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Initial Reaction to 'Why Grades Shouldn't Exist'

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My initial reaction after watching Alfie Kohn's interview in 'Why Grades Shouldn't Exist' was to agree with almost everything he had to say.

I do believe that grades, as they exist in our schools and colleges today, often kill the natural curiosity that most human beings are born with, and I find this very sad.

Schools and colleges in our country are run too much like businesses, and I think how we view grades really reflects this.

Most of my classes have a class size of 35 students. This number isn't based on a class size that is most effective for learning my trade, but rather the student/instructor ratio that will make the college the most money. At my current class sizes, I can't even begin to imagine how I would eliminate grades.

In my ideal world, class sizes would be smaller, so that I could more effectively build rapport with each of my students in the rather short time we have together, and help foster that natural curiosity. But in the world as it currently exists, I struggle to imagine college without grades.

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I almost didn’t post my discussion after finding out this assignment is ungraded. I kept asking myself, “Is it even worth the effort if it’s not graded?” As a learner, I’ll admit I’m motivated by grades, but I also see them as a way to track personal and professional growth. Every assignment is an opportunity to show what I’ve learned, and I try to think outside the box to highlight my problem-solving skills. High grades boost my confidence in my abilities, so my motivation still comes largely from within.

Grades can definitely cause stress and anxiety, but I think a little pressure can be motivating—especially when paired with constructive feedback. Without feedback, a grade alone isn’t very meaningful.

I don’t fully agree with Kohn. He assumes students aren’t genuinely interested in learning and that grades are purely coercive. He also suggests that students will always take the easiest route to earn higher grades. I think these ideas are more relevant to traditional pedagogy and don’t necessarily fit adult learners.

I also found an interesting article that challenges Kohn’s ideas. It argues that non-contingent consequences can lead to incompetence, which I tend to agree with. I’ve attached the link for anyone interested in exploring a different perspective.

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One of my colleagues sent me a link to a New York Times article by Alfie Kohn, Do Our Kids Get Off Too Easy?. As with most articles by Mr. Kohn, I shouldn't respond but figured somebody might take his advice seriously so I felt I needed to.

The reason for the popularity of Kohn's books, articles and speeches is that he strikes a chord that resonates with parents who trust what Kohn says about the research he reports, with most likely little inclination to examine that research themselves. These parents have likely tried many solutions to difficult behaviors at home and at school, and find that few of these other ideas have worked. Furthermore, because many people do use positive reinforcement and rewards poorly, there is no end to examples where parents buy Kohn's assertion that the problem is the rewards and reinforcers and not the way people use them.

First let me say that Kohn actually says some things with which I agree. For example, competition in academics is out of place. You do not have to have losers to have academic excellence. Students should not be graded "on the curve." Every child should be able to make an "A." Struggle and sacrifice is not the best teacher. As Andy Griffith once said when asked if being raised poor contributed to his sense of humor, "No doubt that it did but it is a hell of a way to learn to be funny."

Although I agree with Kohn's descriptions of problems in school and with parenting, I almost always disagree with his solutions. I have a serious problem with what Kohn refers to as "conditionality." He seems to think nothing should be earned since that would mean there were conditions or transactions attached and conditional rewards and reinforcement are bad. He values "self-esteem" but talks as though it is a gift from God - I guess something you are born with, not something that you earn. Even more valuable than "self-esteem" is what he calls "unconditional self-esteem." I know of no studies that support such a conclusion. If he knows, I would like to read them to see if they are valid. Everything I know about behavior indicates that "self-esteem" cannot be given; it must be earned. "Earned" creates feelings of pride and joy that can never be duplicated even by the most expensive gift. Think about how you felt when you learned to tie your shoes or learned to ride a bicycle. Every time we earn something these feelings recur and enough success of this nature leads to high self-esteem.

Kohn relies heavily on the "research" of Edward Deci, a psychology professor at the University of Rochester and author of the widely quoted book, Intrinsic Motivation (1975). Deci's notion of "Intrinsically motivated" essentially means that motivation is its own reward. How liberating is that for a parent not to have to worry about such mundane things. You shouldn't have to reward a child for doing what they should do because they are member of a family. Some things they should do, just because they should. Good luck with that one. Or as Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working for you?"

Even most readers of Deci's work don't really question his interpretation of his own research findings (that motivation is an inside job and rewards produce inferior behavior and values) because there is an element in them that sounds right. I guess intrinsic sounds better and is more intriguing or mysterious than a "do this; get that" process of motivation. "Do this; get that" sounds so mechanical, or to use Kohn's word, transactional. I guess the word "intrinsic" sounds so much more attractive.

Tom Gilbert, professor of psychology, observed the legendary (and very successful) football coach at the University of Alabama, Bear Bryant, watching the team's practices and Bear's coaching behavior. What he learned was that what he said about producing winners and what he actually did was quite different. He never went in at half time and gave them an inspirational speech. At one point Tom said, "But coach, what about all that talk of leadership and inspiration being your keys to success?" "Aw, people like to hear that sh_t." Bear continued, "Winning inspires my boys." The point is that you may read or hear something that you like and agree with but you still cannot put it to any useful practice because you don't have all the facts. It is important to know what the researcher actually did.

Kohn quotes by Assor, Roth and Deci, The Emotional Costs of Parents' Conditional Regard: A Self-Determination Theory Analysis (2004) to bolster his assertion that conditional regard is not a good practice for raising children. However what the authors actually investigated was "parents' use of conditional regard as a socializing practice to predict their children's introjected internalization (as indexed by sense of internal compulsion), resentment toward parents, and ill-being." (If you don't understand that explanation of the study, you are not alone.)

As I can best figure this one, the authors looked at college student memories of negative reinforcement and punishing events by parents and grandparents. From these memories the authors made predictions about current feelings of college age children. I often quote the late, Maya Angelou who said, "I may forget what you said; I may forget what you did, but I will never forget how you made me feel." Of course the participants had negative feelings about control of this nature. Who wouldn't?

I don't see much value in this "research." I would not call it scientific research as this study is a survey of what participants remember about the way mothers and grandmothers did things in the past and how it impacted them in the present. Memory is not reliable about much of our upbringing so results of a survey cannot be considered valuable. Before accepting any scientific evidence as gospel, look at what was done, what the numbers were and how they were interpreted.

However, data about how the subjects felt are always valid but the data collected in this instance was very biased. Even so, the highest correlation they obtained out of a hundred or so that they calculated was .53. A correlation of .53 explains only 28% of the variance, not a very substantial number even under the conditions of the study. Further along the road to my complete craziness, the authors conclude, "The results of two studies suggest..." I respect the conclusion that they did not find a real relationship between the variables studied. However, later they conclude, "Overall, the two studies showed..." Later, "Study 1 indicated..." What happened to "suggest?" Again, the data do not support their claims.

Kohn says he cannot find research that contradicts his conclusions. I cannot find real scientific research to support his conclusions. His interpretation of the study is that "conditional regard" as in loving children as a condition of the child's behavior is a bad thing. Do something bad and the parent withdrawals parental love. I agree; that's just not right. No parent should do that. I love my children no matter what they do. If they do bad things, which thankfully they rarely if ever do, I would still love them and would do everything I could to help them out of trouble. While not liking the actions of a child at a particular time, I would never say that a parent should withhold love. To guide and direct a child's behavior is a loving act of parenting. To withhold love is a terribly misguided act of what it means to be a parent.

Although I can't imagine anyone in a position to help parents who would suggest using parental love as either a punisher or reward, Kohn seems to think it is rather common. He jumps from the position of parents as guides to the idea that any correcting is about withholding love and to the parent-child relationship one of a simple stimulus-response, withdrawing love of all things when the child fails. The science of behavior has not found that. From what I have read of Kohn's writings, he apparently believes that all rewards and reinforcers are essentially transactions involving parental control - a negative sort of control. For example, he would not recommend that parents say to a child, "When you finish studying, you can go play with your friend," as this is conditional or transactional (a bad thing). But there is extensive research demonstrating that it is a very effective "transaction" for not only getting studying done but also for improving parental-child relationships. His naïve interpretation of the word 'conditional' moves from the world of learning what is valued by our actions to making the world a very fearful place indeed.

As to the title of the article, " Do Our Kids Get Off Too Easy? " My answer is "yes" because those children who get everything they ask for, beg for, or have a tantrum for are learning they are entitled in that what they get is owed to them as a birthright. Those behaviors and attitudes will make for a difficult adjustment to a world that doesn't respond to them as their parents did. Not only that, but children who receive things non-conditionally yet whose behavior is out of control, often report that no matter what they do, it doesn't really matter as far as their parents are concerned. In other words, their parents don't care what they do. Translated another way, their parents don't love them. How ironic since this is an outcome that is the opposite of what Kohn predicts.

Giving to others is a valuable gift that can be taught and children are aware that their out-of-control actions should NOT be rewarded. "Passive neglect" is a very harmful parental or teacher pattern where no words or actions are taken when someone is out of control. It recognizes the child's actions in the most awful of ways, encouraging her to harm others or demonstrating to that child, that no one cares enough to say, "No." On the other hand, the child who never gets anything also reports that no matter how good, how correct, how immediate and how constant the child works to please, those who withhold positive responses to such effort create in these children a sense of worthlessness, depression and dependency. Although Kohn reports that he knows of no studies of harmful effects of conditionality (non-contingent reinforcement), I just found 62,700 places on Google for him to look.

Andrew Carnegie is quoted as saying, "Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations." He was talking about how most inherited wealth in the U.S. is squandered. The first generation works hard and long to accumulate wealth that they pass on to their children, who neither work hard nor long but enjoy the luxuries of life since they have never had to develop the habits required to grow the fortune. Consequently they squander the fortune only to have their children in the position where they have to start the process of working hard and long to make a living.

How anyone can not believe in a conditional world blows my mind. The only non-conditional situation that is somewhat productive is ants feeding the queen. People that I have worked with who were close to leading a non-conditional life were patients in a mental hospital. They wouldn't eat unless someone brought the meal and fed them. They would not dress unless someone dressed them. They would not go to the bathroom unless someone took them. Every need was taken care of by others. Although Kohn may say that this is an extreme situation, he needs to consider the extreme of a child growing up without any conditions of approval for what he says or does. He needs to consider what led these patients to this place of total dependence. It goes well beyond their diagnosis. It has to do in some large part for many with years of non-contingent reinforcement for things they said and did. I am sure that Kohn in his wisdom interacts with others in ways that demonstrate his positive regard and his displeasure. I agree that hospitalized patients are an extreme example, but the work that brought these people to a productive and happy life for the first time in many years was all contingent (Ayllon and Azrin, 1968).

Living a life where all things are handed to you is devoid of accomplishments and feelings of self-worth. This kind of life leads to a result that is very clear. The ultimate result of a non-conditional life is a life not worth living, I assure you. Children who are provided praise and assurance for their steps toward doing the right thing are often saved from a life of despair about such fundamental questions as self-worth. Children who are taught rules and the limits of their behavior also report greater self-satisfaction and worth. Behavior that matters is always conditional. Otherwise, how would you know that it mattered?
On Trophies and Education
After receiving a trophy at the season ending banquet of a tee-ball league, my grandson asked his mother, "Mama, what did I do to earn a trophy?" Even as a six year old he knew something was not right. His mother said she had to think real fast and responded, "Well son, you were at every practice." I have no problem giving some form of recognition for all who attend practice and games regardless of their individual achievements, but not a trophy.

My problem stems from the rather universal definition of trophy. The accepted definition is "a cup, or other decorative object, awarded as a prize for a victory or success." Unless you want to do away with trophies all together, limit trophies to those who are successful at some new aspect of their own behavior. Otherwise the word has no special meaning. Give plaques or some other symbol of participation to all who deserve them. Reserve trophies for those who earn them.

The goal of teaching is to transfer knowledge or skill in a way that results in the students not only learning, but loving the experience. A successful teacher is one who is able to teach everyone. That cannot be done by non-conditionality. Conditionality creates confidence, independence and competence. Non-contingent consequences create dependence, depression and incompetence. Hundreds, if not thousands of scientific studies support this. Do all parents and teachers know how to use consequences effectively? No. I believe that if students don't like a teacher, the teacher is not a good teacher, even if they learn. If children don't love their parents, the parents have failed and the child may suffer for a lifetime. Contrary to what Kohn asserts, conditionality is essential to all learning, from academics to interpersonal relationships. A non-conditional life is an essentially self-centered, demanding life. Children learn that people owe them and that they need to do nothing in return. The result is a miserable, depressed existence where they are constantly trying to "find themselves." Earning is the best way to success, but since you can't accomplish much without successful interpersonal relationships (transactions, conditionality), genuine happiness is impossible.

Gilbert, T and Gilbert, M. (2003) The Science of Winning. ISPI Vancouver Special Article.

T. Ayllon & N.H. Azrin : The Token Economy: a motivational system for therapy and rehabilitation. New York: Appleton-Century-Crofts, 1968

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One of my colleagues sent me a link to a New York Times article by Alfie Kohn, Do Our Kids Get Off Too Easy?. As with most articles by Mr. Kohn, I shouldn't respond but figured somebody might take his advice seriously so I felt I needed to.

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My contribution to the class discussion. I agree with AFLIE !

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My contribution to the class discussion. I agree with AFLIE !

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I think Kohn’s perspective is valid, but the way he presents it is pretty off putting. It challenges how most schools are set up, though. It’s hard to accept the idea that grades don’t matter when so many people grew up chasing good grades. Like a lot of people mentioned, employers also need some way to determine whether a person can actually do the job they were trained for. That said, I do think Kohn makes a good point.

He talks about how grades can push students to only do the work required to get an “A+.” They aren’t necessarily learning, they’re just doing what’s expected to hit that grade, and that really resonated with me. If I’m being honest, I approach my assignments by looking at the rubric and making sure I check off everything in the A+ section. I have my own thoughts and opinions, but I still shape my work around what will earn the highest grade.

So yes, I think Kohn has a valid argument, but he comes across as angry when he speaks. Maybe people have challenged him so much that he feels defensive, or maybe I’m just interpreting it that way. Either way, it’s clear he genuinely believes in what he’s saying, and I understand where he’s coming from.

There have definitely been times when I’ve been stressed about grades. I’ve worried about failing a course because of one low mark. Sometimes life gets in the way and I can’t fully contribute to an assignment, or sometimes I completely misunderstand what the assignment is asking and only realize it after seeing how my peers approached it. I’m also someone who worries a lot, and I don’t consider myself a very strong learner. I need more time and clearer instructions. I’m here to learn, but I often spend so much time stressing about grades and marks that I don’t feel like I’m fully absorbing what I’m supposed to be learning. When I think about it that way, I can see why Alfie feels the way he does.

At the same time, I also see another perspective. Some people really value feedback on their work. Doing an assignment and receiving no grade or feedback can feel frustrating and pointless. It leaves you wondering what you did right, what you did wrong, or how you could improve next time.

Overall, I think teachers should have the freedom to do what works best for them and their students. Most institutions still require grades to be entered, and that probably isn’t going away, but it’s still a really interesting perspective to think about.

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Kohn’s perspectives were thought-provoking; however, I have several reservations.

I worry that some of his arguments may unintentionally make students less resilient. I also question whether eliminating grades truly allows students to reach their full potential.

As I listened, I found myself wondering whether removing grades could lead to excessive handholding in the classroom. If grades provide meaningful feedback on how well students demonstrate their skills, why are we hesitant to use them? Is the concern that grades might hurt students’ feelings?

In my view, eliminating grades does not adequately prepare students for real-world expectations. In the workplace, individuals are routinely evaluated and rated based on their performance, and students should be prepared for this reality.

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Grades are not the problem; lack of authentic assessments are.

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Grades are not the problem; lack of authentic assessments are.

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After watching the interview with Alfie Kohn, I am not entirely convinced this is the answer to motivating students in adult education / college level programming. In many cases we are training students to be skilled professionals and our employers rely on the educational institutions to teach and to validate that these students can perform the expected skills in the workplace. Without validation, the employer has no front-line record that the student can actually perform these tasks, their work ethic or their intelligence. Without this front-line measurement of the student, employers are potentially left at a disadvantage in finding the right individual with the right skills.

My approach has always been motivating students through interesting, thoughtful and engaging lectures / demonstrations, followed by authentic real-world assessments which assess their actual ability to perform the skills as they would in the workplace. The grade remains as a confirmation of their skills, abilities and intelligence on the topic and not the reason for the work they do.

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Why grades still matter in adult education

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Why grades still matter in adult education

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When we talk about adult education, I ‘m not completely in agreement with Alfie Kohn. I personally believe that we still need grades to some extent. In my profession as an Adult English as an Additional Language (EAL) instructor, for example, the so-called Portfolio Based Language Assessment (PBLA) is basically a combination of artifacts and “grades” we use to measure students’ progress and achievement. We use terms like “achieved” or “not yet achieved” in place of traditional grades. Nevertheless, the process still includes some kind of grades or percentages.

For example, students need to achieve at least 70% in each Skill Using and Assessment (SU & A) Task across all language skills to reach a certain level of the Canadian Language Benchmark (CLB). The rubric and percentages we use in those language artifacts help guide our decisions about whether students have achieved a certain benchmark in each language skill. Instructors can include anecdotal evidence or teachers’ observations in the students’ portfolio, but the biggest element of benchmark measurement still relies on their achievement in those SU and A tasks.

Let’s take a look at another field like carpentry for instance. It relies heavily on manual skills like cutting, shaping, assembling, and finishing wood, which means the hands-on or practical aspect dominates in this field. Having said that, I believe students still need to learn some theories like understanding the different types of wood and their properties, measurements and geometry, safety regulations, etc. to become skillful carpenters. The question is, how do we measure students who have mastered those theories? I guess it would probably be a combination of theory exams and practical application. Therefore, in my view, it’s nice to think that we don’t need grades, but in reality, we probably cannot totally get rid of them.

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I believe that it depends a great deal on the learning subject whether grades should exist or not in a course. I suppose that for learning subjects which involve specific mathematical calculations or scientific experiments, such as in mathematics or physics courses for instance, grading provides an easy and accurate way to confirm and to measure the understanding of the learners on the subject. But, in theoretical courses, such as in psychology and in classical studies, "qualitative summaries of student progress offered in writing or as part of a conversation" (Alfie Kohn, The Case Against Grades, 2011) would be a more suitable and effective approach that the traditional one.

To conclude, whether grades should or not exist depends, in my view, mainly on the subject. Assessment and grading have a significant psychological impact on most learners, and they need to be addressed continuously by instructors since it is necessary to try maintaining the learner's stress levels as low as possible. No doubt, student stress in relation to grading would be reduced if the traditional grading practices do not exist, but the importance of certifying that the course learning objectives are met by the learners must not be neglected by instructors too regardless of whether he / she uses the traditional grading approaches or not.

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I don't believe that the grades are the problem.

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I don't believe that the grades are the problem.

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As I listened to Alfie Kohn, I had many thoughts arise that led me to believe that it is not the grading system per se that is the issue. One issue, as mentioned by another contributor, is that some topics in a program are required, and it doesn't really matter whether or not you find it relevant or interesting. That may be an issue to address systemically, or perhaps it is just a necessary annoyance. Alfie implies that grading is different than assessment, and I'd need to know what he is suggesting in place of a grading system to truly form an opinion on the topic. Grading, as he's described, seems to be based on rote memorization of topics that are not intrinsically motivating. In my classes, I try to focus on teaching and assessing comprehension and application of principles over memorization, and I use grades to assess these specific aspects of learning. I believe that in the situations described by Kohn, we need to improve our learning goals and methods of assessment and grade assignment rather than eliminate grades altogether. Considering applied professions in particular, I want to know that my mechanic or my nurse understands and knows how to use the required technologies and address problems as they've been taught, not that they found the topic interesting or put forth effort in trying to understand the key concepts. I agree that I've learned more in classes that I personally chose to take rather than required courses, and that in some classes, my focus was more on grades than learning for the sake of learning. However, this was impacted more by the fact that I voluntarily chose the course rather than the fact that courses were not graded. I also agree with other contributors' comments that if a non-grading system does not align with the systems in which we live and work, removing grades will offer little benefit to anyone.

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Grading is implied whether you like it or not.

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Grading is implied whether you like it or not.

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I disagree with the statements made by Alfie Kohn in this video. I do not believe that grades are a coercion tactic used by “bad teachers”.

In a post-secondary institution, students have paid to be in attendance. This I would wager is not out of their desire to learn, at least not explicitly. It’s due to a need, whether that be an advancement in their career, or their desire to do a job that requires schooling.

While I do believe that students should have an interest in the topics they learn about, and that teachers and instructors should do what they can to engage students, not all topics are titillating. The students in my classroom may have little to no interest in atomic structure because it is not a tangible facet of their jobs. However, the province had mandated me to teach these students this material and so I will do so, so that they can pass my course and return to their true passion. Should they fail because they have no interest in that one topic?

Furthermore; if the grade is to be abolished what is the replacement? Excitement for the content, engagement, attitude or understanding? Do all these replacements not fall directly into a scale or range? Understands or doesn’t understand, is engaged, is not engaged.. at that point this is an implied grade and quite frankly does not differ from a letter or percentage.

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In principle fewer grades, In practice we still need a little something.

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In principle fewer grades, In practice we still need a little something.

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I 100% agree that less grading and fewer grades can improve students learning. I think we want to increase the student's intrinsic motivation to learn and to deliver a product that represents their learning as effectively as possible should be primary goal of most assessments. I also think that human nature requires that we have some extrinsic motivations such as deadlines teacher critiques and some type of grading. I'm a big fan of the grades being self-assigned by the student and validated by an instructor. Having said that, ungrading only works if the in-class messaging is strongly and consistently supporting this. Additionally, many students will not accept the ungrading message as it contradicts what they have been taught their whole lives. Thus, we are stuck trying to teach our students about ungrading and ownership of their learning while they are surrounded by a system that pushes them in the other direction.

AI generated TL;DR:

Less grading boosts intrinsic motivation and makes assessments more meaningful. Some extrinsic motivators (deadlines, feedback) are still needed. Self-assigned grades can work if consistently reinforced, but many students resist because it conflicts with traditional systems.

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I disagree with Kohn for two reasons.

Even though the research may abstractly support Kohn’s argument at a high level in academic settings, there is risk of misinterpretation of the data from an application perspective. Also, one can appreciate Kohn’s argument in spirit from a personal perspective. It makes sense that numerical grading is not effective or useful during self-assessment, as an individual rates and motivate themselves through inner heuristics and personal goal setting

However, Kohn’s argument is not effective in preparing learners for organizations and/or group or group work. The reality is that constant grading structures are utilized in the organizational workforce. This demonstrated through benchmarks, milestone deadlines, and quality assessment. In other words, stakeholders are constantly assessing each other’s performance through quantitative and qualitative grading matrices. Given this reality, educators would be creating a grave injustice for learners, as it would inadequately prepare them for the harsh expectations of the organizational structures.

Another rationale to disagree, is that learners receive a net benefit from receiving grades. While one can appreciate Kohn’s point of the negative aspects, learners experience from grade structures (anxiety and, mixed or toxic motivational signals), this cost is outstripped by the benefits of assisting learners in gauging their work and comprehension quality. Most students find grades useful as a guide to their performance and therefore adjust their behaviour accordingly.

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I thought Alfie Kohn's perspective was interesting, although I do think it applies more to standardized testing than some of the classes taught at a polytechnic (eg. we don't really have tests in our programs, as they are project-based with check-in points along the way, so I believe that in a way we are already implementing some of Kohn's principles).

I think moving away from grades but retaining learning outcomes could be a happy medium between being too focused on numerical grades and not measuring anything at all (eg. if the learning outcome is to make cookies, we consider it met if there are cookies at the end of the course, not getting marks for how well they memorized the list of ingredients, which also ties into UDL principles, which I believe we're covering soon).

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I found this video to be very interesting and it presented a perspective that I had not considered.

While I appreciate the perspective that students will do only what is necessary to achieve the goal of the ‘almighty A’ and leave course work that is not necessary to fulfill this goal, I don’t agree that grades should not exist.

I think that the focus of grades can be lessened by the instructor by doing more formative assessments and providing more feedback to students. Leaving the ‘you will be tested on this’ statements out of the teaching would also remove some of the focus on the end grade.

I think that grades are still a strong indicator of understanding. If grades did not exist and students were not motivated to learn and get high grades then the success of any class would be entirely dependant on the teachers ability to engage and teach each individual effectively. Grades are a good way to gauge where extra attention and study may be required to be successful in a field of study.

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I watched a webinar on this topic a couple of years ago and it really opened my mind and heart to the negative impact that grades can have. I've moved toward a more collaborative way of grading (for some assignments) where I sit with the students, their work, and the rubric, and we have a discussion to determine a reasonable grade together. This takes time, of course, but the impact it has on students is worth it. This method also requires that students have to be able to talk about what they submitted which is helpful in group work as well. I and other faculty have also changed how much focus we put on assessing things like grammar, syntax, spelling because, with international students especially, we see students so worried about those details that they often resort to Ai. We try to be very clear what we are actually assessing and stress the importance of information that comes from their own brain even if there are errors and that those errors will not impact their grade significantly. I understand the need for grades for any number of reasons; however, I do think that we would do well to make some changes!

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I respectfully disagree with Alfie Kohn’s argument that grades should not exist. While I understand his concerns about how grades can sometimes “diminish students’ interest in whatever they’re learning,” I believe grading still plays an important role in preparing students for real-world expectations.

In professional environments, employees are frequently evaluated based on their performance. These evaluations often determine promotions, salary increases, bonuses, and even continued employment. By eliminating grades, we would not be preparing students for the reality that their work will be assessed against company goals and management expectations.

I believe grades can help students develop goal-setting skills and accountability. In this way, different types of assessment and grading give students enough practice and experience to be ready for the workplace, helping them understand how their performance will be measured.

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I agree with the speaker and classmates and believe student learning should be measured through formative, growth-focused approaches instead of grades. I've seen that when students are working on group assignments, they tend to focus on more grades than collaborating as a team, and sometimes that creates conflicts because they sometimes argue that their peers do not devote the same effort they make. So, I think some formative assessments to measure student learning could be descriptive feedback, self-reflection, peer review, and demonstrated skills and competencies tied to clear learning outcomes. Ongoing feedback shows progress over time and values improvement. I think these methods better capture real understanding, encourage intrinsic motivation, and help students see learning and relearning as continuous process rather than a final product.

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When I was watching the video, I thought holy moly, what a conflicting topic! Part of me wanted to say....then how are we to measure the students' learning, but on the flip side, the grades can cause major anxiety and barriers to learning. I do think there needs to be some type of assessment of learning and understanding of the subject content, and how to put it into practice or use, so to speak. Made me reflect on my profession and how I, as the educator, can ensure my students have a good understanding of the theory behind the skill/techniques and why we do what we do.

Regardless, I have thought about this before and how I can support and motivate my students to learn. After listening to Mr. Kohn, I need to learn about not grading and how I could put this into practice.

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Grades should not exist. This is heated topic

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Grades should not exist. This is heated topic

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I listen with attention and focus to the statement from the video. One side, I had a feeling that the author was right but on the other side, I feel like what is needed is a balance between the grading model. I am not an education specialist, but I say the grading should exist to gauge the level of understanding of students on a specific topic. This gauge will help the instructor to channel the summative assessment to meet or resolve the issues noticed in the first grading system (formative assessment).

Instructors should not show high importance to grading because that will derail students to only hunting for an A-grade than the learning of the course outcome. I always try to emphasize to my students that they should not look at the grades but because the grading system has been installed for them to pass the course, this is practically impossible to make them forget the ship that is meant to take them to pass the class. In summary, I would say that the grading should remain but be used as a gauge but not a passing tool or ship.

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Grades Shouldn't Be The Main Focus Of Instruction.

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Grades Shouldn't Be The Main Focus Of Instruction.

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I agree that a good teacher should not worry about grades.

I completely agree that grades make people hyperfocus on grades over the materials at hand.

As I teach a trade specifically, the focus should be on retaining material, critical thinking, and incorporating the lessons taught rather than a grade number.

I constantly have students asking if this will be on the test when I’m just trying to get them thinking like a seasoned mechanic. If their thought process is correct, I don’t care about grades as they WILL get to the point. I tell them to be confident. You can be wrong, but be confidently wrong, in the sense that they use solid reasoning to get to their conclusion. If you can explain how you got to your answer, it is far more important than getting the right answer. We can then guide their thinking process properly if we approach it in that direction. Whereas if we just test them, it’s more relying on them memorizing facts than absorbing the lessons.

We are trying to ensure we have prepared mechanics entering the field more than being able to just pass a test.