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Yes and no,
In our society they are (and were) similar persons to the joker (even the joker is an fiction character) but these persons, are a victim of society?
Somtimes yes because there are scenarios where is most likely that kind of people apeares, somtimes yes and sometimes no, and when the conditions are not likely they also appears (maybe in less measure but they appears), just for probability or coincidences and sometimes is not that easy to say that some persons are a victim of society.
The true is the joker is a story and maybe we will never know if he is a victim of society (and I could'n watch the movie so), only that we have is our opinion.

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LUCA: For me, if he is a victim of society because just because he had a disease, people treated him crazy and left him out, they clearly separated him from society because we don't see them as normal and when we see something that is not normal or Weird as we put it aside and I do not think this is just the case of the joker happens to many people in the world, that society leaves them aside for not being normal for society

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LUCA: For me, if he is a victim of society because just because he had a disease, people treated him crazy and left him out, they clearly separated him from society because we don't see them as normal and when we see something that is not normal or Weird as we put it aside and I do not think this is just the case of the joker happens to many people in the world, that society leaves them aside for not being normal for society

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good job, lu!

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I think clearly he is a victim of the exclusive society. Mockery of his mental illness, abuse at work and abandonment by the government are clear examples. The previous dialogue in the scene where he kills the television host is very interesting, it raises how there is a self-proclamation of objectivity by the powers of the system, and it is something very common where it falls all the time, all the discussions that are Given within the moral parameters applied by the system, they are discussions that end up gaining the established power.

Well done, Joaquín.

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I think that "the joker" is a person who suffered a lot throughout his life and to release all his problems he paints himself as a clown and goes out to commit vandal acts, victim of marginalization, of never having obtained help and in addition to his failed career as a comedian, falls into a state of insanity and mental illness that ultimately leads him into crime.

Well done, Ale!

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I do believe that he is a victim of society, because Arthur is not in a good mental state and the government does not give enough attention to people with the treatment they need or the drugs.  Arthur had a traumatic and violent childhood, he suffered discrimination from society just for not having good mental health.  The end of the film shows Arthur feeling free, without caring about hiding the problems he has, he shows himself as he is.

Good job, Alma!

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Yes!, I agree!, The joker is a victim of society. I think that society right now (because society a few years ago was even worse), still can´t accept the fact that there´s people who born with mental ilness. Or maybe it could happen also, that this mental ilness could be created  by society itself, and that is why Arthur (The joker) is a victim of this. He has this mental ilness so the hole society who doesn´t have it segregates him. They don´t undestand him, he doesn´t fit for them and that bothers people. He alter their world.
Even in the comics of Batman, or batman´s movies we see him (The joker) as a mistake of society, we had to wait to see his own movie to start to really think about his behaviour!!
That´s why we, all the people, all society, have to think in every person as people who have problems, family problems,  past, future. We are not the same.

Good job, Lu!

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I agree with that because Arthur was a person who suffered discrimination by the society. Although he wanted to be accepted by others, people rejected him and looked down upon him. I think that the behaviour of the "joker" is the feeling that many people have and they don't dare to do  display  because they follow rules of the society.The joker felt free,when he stopped hiding his mental illness. 

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I agree with that because Arthur was a person who suffered discrimination by the society. Although he wanted to be accepted by others, people rejected him and looked down upon him. I think that the behaviour of the "joker" is the feeling that many people have and they don't dare to do  display  because they follow rules of the society.The joker felt free,when he stopped hiding his mental illness. 

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Rafael Rubinschik

Good job, Rafa!

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I think he is a victim because being born with a disease already makes him an outcast of society. Society itself helps to build the joker, television builds the character, all media do. That he becomes a criminal is a product of the hostility of the city, of how dark and macabre it becomes more and more. His origins, to put it in a way, make him that way, his illness, being poor, the dysfunctional family. All this does not mean that if someone is born that way they will be a criminal. Here you can see the ideology that man is noble but society corrupts him, Fleck when born in that environment is prone to being excluded from society, all the treatment and mistreatment that Fleck receives are what make him the Joker.

Good job, Lean!

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yes, I agree with that statement. i think that society has a lot to do with the creation and conformation of toxic stimulus stimuli like the tv and the way that work and businesses work. all this things have a big role in his life, causing him a lot of psychological troubles  and making the troubles that he already has, worse. that's why I see him as a victim of society, because his illness is a result of all the damage that sick society done to him.
good job, lucy

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Yes, because, the Phillips film introduces us to Arthur Fleck, a young man with a psychiatric problem who lives in a filthy Gotham, crowded with rats and dirt. With the help of welfare, a clown job, and day-to-day with his mother, Arthur dreams of one day becoming a reputed comedian. However, the stifling political and social climate of the city turns against him and Arthur begins to feel an irrepressible hatred against everything that surrounds him. The social drama serves as a context in which the reality in which Arthur, who is expelled from the wheel of the system, has to live. When you get out of the system it's impossible to get back in, this is a clear critique of the American system. And too the psychological drama that Arthur lives in the first person due to his illness. It is a film that does not speak of the Joker at all, but of a person who is abandoned by the state system and humiliated by society who ends up becoming a key link to unleash the chaos that reigns in his city and awakens the people.
So, yes, I consider that she is a victim of society. In the film, Arthur Flek is a sick and impoverished man that society does not take into account. Constantly throughout the film the abandonment by society and the state towards the oppressed and the mentally ill is notable, as in the case of Arthur.
The movie doesn't show something new, it shows something that happens every day, all the time.

Cami, fantastic job! I will quote you:
"It is a film that does not speak of the Joker at all, but of a person who is abandoned by the state system and humiliated by society who ends up becoming a key link to unleash the chaos that reigns in his city and awakens the people."

The central theme is not the Joker, as you very well suggested the film is about Arthur Fleck. Bravo!

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fudYes, I think the Joker is a victim of society. Starting with his mental health and the fact that the government should give people the treatment and medication they need. At the beginning of the movie, his psychologist tells him that they couldn’t work together anymore because of financial problems and he wasn’t able to pay for the treatment himself. The Joker was also financially maintaining his mother and all this with a job that didn’t pay him enough to afford all these important needs they had. But going back to his mental health, he clearly had a traumatic childhood, with a lot of violence coming from different people and her mother was the only one who took care of him but she also wasn’t able to do her job as a mother because of her mental health as well. His life was a set of many vulnerable situations which can’t be maintain stood together and the government does nothing about this kind of situations even though they happen every day.

Casiana, congratulations on your job! There is one salient part in your piece of writing:
"he clearly had a traumatic childhood, with a lot of violence coming from different people and her mother was the only one who took care of him but she also wasn’t able to do her job as a mother because of her mental health as well"
You are one of the few people who mentioned that his mom was also ill and that is fundamental.
Was he a loner all his life? Has anyone ever truly given him love and support?
Great job, Casi!

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I believe that Arthur is a victim of society because he spent a lot of his life being humiliated and demeaned by the upper class and his coworkers for not fitting into the model of society.

He had a difficult and damaging childhood not only financially but also mentally for having suffered sexual and physical abuse by his mother and stepfather who kept him tied and malnourished with various signs of violence, these issues cause trauma and psychological damage in people causing him to develop a mental illness. He lived in a lie since his mother told him that his father was someone who is not considering that he was adopted.

He was fired for carrying a gun giving a show in a hospital in front of children, and in every job he was looking for he couldn't fit in. He ended up unleashing a fury against those who mistreated and humiliated him and his solution was to take revenge by taking the life of the act that society took as a rebellion and did not see the seriousness of the matter.

Arthur Fleeck was a victim of society who in a certain way wanted to find himself and was unable to do so, he sought to fit in and could not do it either and instead of receiving the help he needed he was a victim of abuse, a situation that prompted him to take revenge on all those who hurt him.

Male, this is fantastic. You explored the character and even explained why he behaves like this. Great! Lucy

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I think it's possible, the mental illness suffered by the joker is called Pseudobulbar syndrome, with a combination of sociopath. These diseases can be generated by the environment, traumatic events or brain damage in an accident.
The first disease generates uncontrollable attacks of laughter in the subject that can lead to crying, these attacks can last for long periods of time. The characteristics of a sociopath are that they are incapable of having any feeling of guilt, empathy, and they cannot maintain relationships for long periods of time, since in general, they use the relationship for the purpose of a goal. Unlike psychopaths, these are arrogant and do not plan the things they are going to do, they are usually caught since the acts they do are to commit crimes in the majority

Mati, thanks for sharing your reflection an stating the differences between a sociopath and a psychopath. Your insight on the Joker´s condition is fantastic.
Lucy

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Qué diferencia hay entre un PSICÓPATA y un SOCIÓPATA

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T

C´mon, Oni! You can do it!

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I think that what triggers Arthur to make up this whole "joker" character and to have this behavior is his dark past, more than the society in which he lives.
him having a tremendously dark and sad childhood, and that developing into a mental illness, puts him in a delicate place in relation to his everyday environment. Not to mention that the society in which he lives in is really messed up and going through hard stuff too. so, I wouldn't blame it only on the society but, does it affect and adds negativity to the whole conflict? yes, it does.

Ines, good point! Even though the Joker has been through some hardships himself, society does fuel his anger. Excellent job!

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Yes, I agree with this. I believe that The Joker is in a very vulnerable situation in many aspects at once, this includes his mental health and his income working as a clown. Besides the obvious bullying he receives from his “equals” (other citizens), the Government fails to supply with the medication and treatment he needs, because he can’t pay for it with the money he earns while he is maintaining and looking after his mother.

Vicky, fantastic job! You explain why to you Arthur is a victim of society. You mentioned bullying, poor income, vulnerable situations, mental health problems and finally, society casting him aside.
Great job!

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The Joker is a person whit  WITH a mental illness. He had a very bad childhood and this was very bad for him :(
He lives in a city where the money is very badly distributed: few persons with a lot of money and many poor people. This situation generated a criminal society. That´s why a poor person whit mental ilness was not considerated for the society. I agree with the fact that the joker is a victim of the society.

Javier, good reflection. Unfortunately, the Joker had many misfortunes in his life. Good job!
Lucy

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To be honest after I saw  this film i was shaking really badly,  Ithink that he was just a guy that wanted to make people laugh and it turned to be a puppet; his therapist seems to be a demonstration of how people see sometimes mental illnes, i was really mad, i did really felt feel bad for him and how mean and stupid is people are.

Isa, thanks for sharing your reflection. Indeed, this movie is really moving and makes us empathise with Arthur right away. Good job!

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The Joker had a mental illness, that when he lived some kind of discomfort or sirousness  seriousness he laughed and grew stronger, for this reason Arthur took several medications a per day, he writes  wrote in his diary and regulary visited a social worker.  He is a person who´s suffered all his life since he had a very complex childhood and the social context in which he lives is not ideal either. He cares for his mother, who was released from a psychiatric hospital for inventing a story that her boss was Arthur's father; when he is actually adopted.
He supports his mother with a miserable job dressed as a clown, who was fired because he dropped a gun (which he was carrying because he had been attacked before) in the middle of a "show" for children in a hospital. In this work Fleck was always treated as "weird", as well as on the street. He was abandoned by the system as he had to stop going to his social worker due to budget cuts. And besides all this, he found out that he was adopted.
As they humiliated him at work,  they also humiliated him on tv in front of all the "upper class" for his stand up, when he just wanted to amuse others.
Arthur Fleck was a person who doesn't d idn´t  fit into that society and encourages their behavior.

I was talking with some people about this, and we were all agreed with the idea that The Joker is a victim of society, but some told me that he is a victim of society, but that's no excuse for all the horrible  and psychopathic things he did. Also some others told me that he is also a victim of himself. And i found it very interesting.

Delfi, I find this last paragraph really interesting. Was he a victim of himself too? What a great question! Thanks for narrating the story to illustrate your arguments. This movie and this story is fascinating. Congrats on this writing!
Great job!

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The discrimination of the joker.  Maia duek

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The discrimination of the joker.  Maia duek

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I agree with that because Arthur was a person who suffered discrimination by of the society. Although he wanted to be accepted by others, people rejected him and looked down upon him.
I think that the behaviour of the "joker" is the feeling that many people have and they don't dare to do  display  because they follow rules of the society.The joker felt free,when he stopped hiding his mental illness.

Maia, you mention a really interesting argument: the Joker finally set himself free when he started doing as he pleased. He unleashed his mind and felt guilt-free.
Great job!

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The Joker it is, in deed, a victim of society. But not everyone who is a victim of the society ends up that way. He has a clear tendecy to mental illnes which is why he develops  turns into the Joker. Although at the beginin  beginning of the movie Arthur tries to see the glass half full, eventually he gives up and proceeds to loose his mind completly. Events such as the murder that takes place on the train are what make the Joker begin to have recognition in society  not in a good way. But it is not unitl until  he got invited to the tv show where he kills the interviewer while broadcasting live that the chaos breaks out creating major riots in the city. While the outcasts thinks of the Joker as an important figure that gives them finally the power to speak up, he ends up in the Arkham asylum being treated because of his new condition of as a criminal.

Lu, great job! I will quote you: "Events such as the murder that takes place on the train are what make the Joker begin to have recognition in society  not in a good way. "
This part is brilliant because you clearly see what Arthur triggers in society, in this sick society. You described the film and clearly stated your opinion.
Great job!

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Arthur is clearly a victim of society because he was a well-behaved person despite his trauma and illness. As the film progresses, Arthur undergoes several changes that negatively affect his life, the government cuts health expenses so he can no longer go to the psychologist or take his pills, they also kick him out of work because a colleague of his gave had given him a gun, and he's also physically abused when he was trying to do his job. So Arthur is totally abandoned by a society that should protect him more than other people.

Rami, great choice of words! You fully depict and describe the Joker´s life and problems. Fantastic job!

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my opinion about the movie "joker", is how there is an inequality of social and economic classes, and how society does nothing about it just accepts that. it also looks like as if the society the joker is in there are no rules.
He suffered from a mental illness, he was humiliated before in front of all the people on TV, which caused him to seek revenge, for all the damage they caused him for years.
I also think that beyond his illness, he laughed to hide his pain, so he could express his pain differently.

Adri, what you say is true:  there´s something wrong with the society in which this character lives. However, let´s not forget that he suffered from an illness that made him laugh uncontrollably.
Good job!

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The joker is a character that his whose  life was going pretty well and he was fighting for his dream of being a comedian and getting a smile out of people, only in the film you can see how Arthur is superimposing things, his dismissal from the clown club, the murders on the train, finding out that his mother lied to him all his life, that he is adopted and also his mother hospitalized, well all this led him to unleash that madness full of anger and frustration.  This is how his transformation began to prepare for the program he watched every night. Arthur was showing all his anger, sufferings that.

Marcos, the very last part of this writing seems incomplete.
Still, I will quote you:
"The joker is a character that his whose  life was going pretty well "
Do you believe that he was leading a happy life? I don´t agree with that.
You narrated some of the events in the film that triggered Arthur´s catharsis. Good job!

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Warning! This opinion contains spoilers for the movie spoilers, before reading it it is recommended to watch the movie so you can have your own conclusion and not be surprised.
or I agree that the joker is a victim of society. I say this because in the film it is seen how Arthur constantly tries to take the initiative to do things that make him happy, the society far from helping him and giving him tools for it that, represses him to the point that Arthur reaches madness.
In the film we can see how Arthur reaches a peak of madness when he is affected by many disappointments together at the same time, such as the beating, his murder and his subsequent dismissal, his failure as a comedian, the hospitalization of his mother, the discovery of his adoption and upbringing led him to the state of madness that he shows us at the end of the movie.
With this we could say that originally Arthur did not have any mental problem, what is more, he tried to see the positive side of things to move on, but when he was involved in so many events of frustration and disappointment, these seized him and made him lose his control of your life.

Lauti, fantastic job! You listed down what happened in the film to reinforce your opinion. Fantastic! Indeed, Artur has been through a lot and society did not help him at all; on the contrary, society contributed to his mental state.
Great job!

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.The recent movie "Joker" is an interesting material to generate a debate about the issues and topics that we can see in the film. There are a lot of movies and TV shows that talk about evolution, growth or change in a character, and the "Joker" is not the first one to bring this subject to discussion. In fact, I believe the Joker is strongly influenced by 2 great movies by Martin Scorsese, "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy". I really recommend this these pictures, I like them even more than "Joker", although I enjoyed this last one very much, I watched it 2 times in movie theaters.
"Joker" poses the situation of a man with a complicated life. He gets kicked up when he is working, he has to take absolute care of his mother, and he has a laughter problem; he can´t control his laughter. He is medicated and goes frecuently to therapy, but he seems like a "good person" and "mentaly healthy". The movie tries to show us how his life conflicts can affect his judgment and "turn him" into a "bad guy". The society takes responsability when the government cuts expenses on health and ceases to pay Arthur's therapy sessions and his medication. Since then, he seems to have hallucinations, as he imagines a relationship with his neighbour that is shown to us as non-existent. It looks like the government is fully responsible for this, and Thomas Wayne, future mayor, explicity says that poor people are clowns and have to change, and the typical meritocratic discourse that rich people are rich because of an effort. In this specific points I think Arthur is a victim of society, but I also think that it is questionable that a guy who has no mental illness background, in one or maybe two weeks becomes a psicotic. psychotic When the movie starts, he doesn´t show any sign of psicosis. psychosis He is perfectly capable of taking care of his mother, another character that the movie shows us as a mentally illness. He isn´t violent, he doesn´t even want to carry a gun, and 40 minutes later he is killing a guy and he leads a violent movement in the whole city.
If anyone thinks differently and wants to discuss, I´m open.

Santi, great job! To start off, I can see that you tackled this question from different perspectives: good job!
You provided solid arguments to state your position.
You described the film and narrated how this complex character evolves throughout the movie. Bravo!
Still, I agree with you up to some extent.. I also believe that at the beginning, Arthur wasn´t a "violent" person and that maybe, he unleashed that fury out of the recognition that society gave to him.
However,  there is strong evidence in the film that suggests that Arthur is delusional on many occasions. Can we affirm that he accepted reality? Could he be objective? We will never know!
but I´m convinced that we love this character! I truly believe that every time we watch this film, we discover new things...
Fantastic job, Santi!

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"The Joker is a catharsis about the dark side of a part of us that we don’t acknowledge – the part that doesn’t want to obey the little niceties of society.  There is a reason that characters like Gregory House and Eric Cartman are so popular.  They represent the idea that we all, in some way, wish we could be a part of.  They don’t obey society’s rules.  They don’t follow the set way of thinking.  They do their own thing, and to hell with everybody else.  Let’s be honest, all of us wish that we could do that.  But the Joker is part of the darker side of that way of thinking.  Not only does he not want to follow the rules of society, but he actively seeks to destroy the rules as we understand them.  In his mind, chaos is the only actual truth in the world."