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My first Interview was with a 1st grade special education teacher "Ms. M", she teaches in an autistic support classroom and is entering her fourth year teaching. I sent my questions ahead of time and broke them into three categories: Background, Curriculum & instructional strategies, and, school culture. I will share my list of questions and highlight some of the key moments from the interview.

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My first Interview was with a 1st grade special education teacher "Ms. M", she teaches in an autistic support classroom and is entering her fourth year teaching. I sent my questions ahead of time and broke them into three categories: Background, Curriculum & instructional strategies, and, school culture. I will share my list of questions and highlight some of the key moments from the interview.

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What inspired you to become a special education teacher? "I always wanted to be a teacher, as an undergrad I was in the process of getting certified to teach general education and special education, my student teaching experience in an autistic support classroom was terrific and I knew that was the place for me."

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What inspired you to become a special education teacher? "I always wanted to be a teacher, as an undergrad I was in the process of getting certified to teach general education and special education, my student teaching experience in an autistic support classroom was terrific and I knew that was the place for me."

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What is your favorite part of teaching in Autistic support? "With the small class sizes you really develop relationships with your students, I enjoy building communication and self help skills into my curriculum, and find satisfaction in teaching the whole child."

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What is your favorite part of teaching in Autistic support? "With the small class sizes you really develop relationships with your students, I enjoy building communication and self help skills into my curriculum, and find satisfaction in teaching the whole child."

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What do you hope for yourself and your students 15 years from now? " I hope to be still teaching autistic support, maybe I would like to do something with my Wilson Reading program certification or try being an adjunct professor. For my students I hope for them independence and to become good people."

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What do you hope for yourself and your students 15 years from now? " I hope to be still teaching autistic support, maybe I would like to do something with my Wilson Reading program certification or try being an adjunct professor. For my students I hope for them independence and to become good people."

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What EBP's do you use in your classroom? "I utilize a variety of evidence based practices, I find video modeling and social stories make concepts concrete and sets the expectation for behavior. TEACCH, addressing the physical space and lots of visuals make the classroom run smoother and transitions easier. My favorite is Peer Mediated strategies, this approach is great for teaching resiliency and natural social experiences." 

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What EBP's do you use in your classroom? "I utilize a variety of evidence based practices, I find video modeling and social stories make concepts concrete and sets the expectation for behavior. TEACCH, addressing the physical space and lots of visuals make the classroom run smoother and transitions easier. My favorite is Peer Mediated strategies, this approach is great for teaching resiliency and natural social experiences." 

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What do you find a less effective strategy? " I find ABA to be a one size fits all approach that has serious limitations. I am not specifically trained in ABA, we have BCBA's and ABA therapist that push in to the classroom and while I do use reinforcement and I like the structure, I find the methods often to textbook and not individualized enough."

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What do you find a less effective strategy? " I find ABA to be a one size fits all approach that has serious limitations. I am not specifically trained in ABA, we have BCBA's and ABA therapist that push in to the classroom and while I do use reinforcement and I like the structure, I find the methods often to textbook and not individualized enough."

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How do you collaborate with the Paras and various other supports in the classroom? what is your communication method? " When I begin working with a Para or 1:1, we meet and I show them a manual that I have prepared with an overview of ASD and special education, we meet in the morning daily to discuss the day and I will often model the ways they should be interacting with the students. The various services that come into my classroom I meet with often and they will come in to support specific students or moments in activities. We work together. If there is a problem with a staff member that can not be resolved by conversation, the principle with step in. Recently I had a 1:1 who was refusing to wear a mask, This was a case where after several conversations the principle needed to intervene."

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How do you collaborate with the Paras and various other supports in the classroom? what is your communication method? " When I begin working with a Para or 1:1, we meet and I show them a manual that I have prepared with an overview of ASD and special education, we meet in the morning daily to discuss the day and I will often model the ways they should be interacting with the students. The various services that come into my classroom I meet with often and they will come in to support specific students or moments in activities. We work together. If there is a problem with a staff member that can not be resolved by conversation, the principle with step in. Recently I had a 1:1 who was refusing to wear a mask, This was a case where after several conversations the principle needed to intervene."

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What would you change if you could about special education today? (your school, Pa. America) " I believe it would be better for many of my students if there was an alternative curriculum available, for the students who cannot access it with supports. I would like to see more parent involvement. In my school there is not a co-teaching model, and while my students are included in gym class, specials, assemblies, and lunch, I really would like to see opportunities for them to be included in other academic courses like math and literacy."

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What would you change if you could about special education today? (your school, Pa. America) " I believe it would be better for many of my students if there was an alternative curriculum available, for the students who cannot access it with supports. I would like to see more parent involvement. In my school there is not a co-teaching model, and while my students are included in gym class, specials, assemblies, and lunch, I really would like to see opportunities for them to be included in other academic courses like math and literacy."

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Do you feel supported by your superiors and district? "yes, I feel supported. They listen." In this part we did spin off into talking about the challenges of the pandemic, it's stress and we noted that in the beginning teachers were hero's and then suddenly attitude switched (by some) and the demand for them to come back to school shifted the perspective. 

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Do you feel supported by your superiors and district? "yes, I feel supported. They listen." In this part we did spin off into talking about the challenges of the pandemic, it's stress and we noted that in the beginning teachers were hero's and then suddenly attitude switched (by some) and the demand for them to come back to school shifted the perspective. 

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How do you manage self-care or prevention from burnout? Does your school support you in these areas? "I've learned to do my work at work, early when I arrive. I no longer take work home with me. I also enjoy going to the gym." "The school district doesn't do anything to support self-care that I am aware of." 

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How do you manage self-care or prevention from burnout? Does your school support you in these areas? "I've learned to do my work at work, early when I arrive. I no longer take work home with me. I also enjoy going to the gym." "The school district doesn't do anything to support self-care that I am aware of." 

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From my interview with Ms. M, her emphasis on peer mediated interventions had me curious to learn more. Post interview, that's where my research focused. Research about Peer relationships in the classroom environment also connects to my next interview which focuses on college and work environments, spoiler alert, positive peer relationships are huge assets in these arenas.  

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From my interview with Ms. M, her emphasis on peer mediated interventions had me curious to learn more. Post interview, that's where my research focused. Research about Peer relationships in the classroom environment also connects to my next interview which focuses on college and work environments, spoiler alert, positive peer relationships are huge assets in these arenas.  

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Peer- reviewed paper about peer-mediated interventions

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Peer- reviewed paper about peer-mediated interventions

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Participants will describe the importance of involving peers in efforts to expand social relationships and learning, identify how peer support and peer network interventions can benefit students with and without disabilities, and will learn practical strategies for recruiting students, developing effective intervention plans, orienting students to their roles, and supporting them as they work together.

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Participants will describe the importance of involving peers in efforts to expand social relationships and learning, identify how peer support and peer network interventions can benefit students with and without disabilities, and will learn practical strategies for recruiting students, developing effective intervention plans, orienting students to their roles, and supporting them as they work together.

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Safety care training came up in our interview, not everyone who interacts with the children have this training so if an behavioral event occurs a person who is certified must stay and deescalate the event. While this happens a Para must take over for the classroom teacher. It seems to me, that somehow there should be a larger percentage of training happening with support staff.

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Safety-Care ® Behavioral Safety Training program provides the skills and competencies necessary to effectively prevent, minimize, and manage behavioral challenges with dignity, safety, and the possibility of change. Safety-Care provides the tools you need to be safe when working with behaviorally challenging individuals.

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My second interview was with Ms. P, a woman who's career was spent working in the computer science field at large companies, including SAP, and teaching Computer science curriculum at Universities. For Ms. P Autism is personal, over 20 years ago her twin nephews were diagnosed with ASD, since then she has been involved with organizations, served on boards, and advocated for better lives for people on the spectrum. For this interview I focused on her involvement in the SAP Autism at Work program and her position at Drexel University. Because of her varied experiences I choose to research the programs ahead of our interview and let the conversation flow. The questions and thoughts I will post are what came from our conversation.

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My second interview was with Ms. P, a woman who's career was spent working in the computer science field at large companies, including SAP, and teaching Computer science curriculum at Universities. For Ms. P Autism is personal, over 20 years ago her twin nephews were diagnosed with ASD, since then she has been involved with organizations, served on boards, and advocated for better lives for people on the spectrum. For this interview I focused on her involvement in the SAP Autism at Work program and her position at Drexel University. Because of her varied experiences I choose to research the programs ahead of our interview and let the conversation flow. The questions and thoughts I will post are what came from our conversation.

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This is a well produced look at the SAP program, it will give you an idea of the companies support of the program, what type of person it supports, and it's larger impact to the success and culture of the company

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We like to think that good work is always rewarded. But what if some people who could do good work can't their foot in the door in the first place? That's where recent hiring initiatives that look beyond unfair stereotypes come in, as Lee Cowan reports in our Cover Story:
Twenty-seven-year-old Christopher Pauley thought he had it all figured out when it came to looking for a job.

He had a detailed spreadsheet of each and every position he applied for -- at least 600.

But despite his degree in computer science from California Polytechnic State University, he went two years with barely a nibble.

Did he get discouraged? "Oh my gosh, my morale really started to drop towards the end," he said. "In fact, there were days where I would either hardly fill out any applications at all, or just simply not apply on anything."

He knew he had the smarts for most jobs; he was a former Spelling Bee Champ, after all. But Pauley struggles with social and communications skills because he's also autistic.

While precise numbers are hard to come by, by some estimates at least 80% of adults with autism are unemployed, even though their IQs are often well above average.

Sometimes their job skills can present themselves in unique ways. For Christopher, it's video games. His ability to recognize patterns and his acute attention to detail -- both hallmarks of autism -- make his playing the video game Rock Band look pretty easy.

And they are the same skills he was hoping would impress prospective employers in the computer programming world. But he always had to get past that interview, which was a challenge at best.

Cowan asked, "Was there, in any of those interviews, a time where you just wanted to tell somebody, 'Look, I know my social skills maybe aren't quite what you expect, but I know I can do this job, and I know I can do a really good job if you give me a chance'?"

"Yes."

"But you never said that to anybody?"

"Most of the time, no," he replied.

"Because why?"

"I just wasn't comfortable. It makes me come across as desperate."

At Microsoft, however, there was no need to hide his autism; they were looking for it.

"It's a talent pool that really hasn't been tapped," said Jenny Lay-Flurrie, the chief accessibility officer at tech giant Microsoft outside Seattle.

"There really is, and was, a lot of data on the table that said to us that we were missing out. We were missing out on an opportunity to bring talent in with autism."

Cowan said, "So in a way, it sounds like this was almost a business imperative."

"Heck, yeah!" she laughed. "People with disabilities are a strength and a force of nature in this company, myself included."

Lay-Flurrie, who is profoundly deaf, communicates by reading lips and working with an interpreter. She helped create a hiring program for Microsoft back in 2015 designed to better identify candidates with autistic talents.

Instead of the traditional job interview focusing so heavily on social skills, the company has replaced it with a vetting process that lasts for weeks, and team building exercises like one called the Marshmallow Challenge.

"Being able to watch a candidate in that environment as opposed to sitting across the table interviewing them makes all the difference in the world," said Cowan.

"Every difference," said Lay-Flurrie. "Every day, in any company, in any role, you're going to be asked to work with someone else to figure out a problem or a challenge, or a project."

"And yet in that scenario, they're not as self-conscious that they're being observed for a job -- they're just doing a task."

"It's marshmallows!"

After Christopher Pauley went through a similar, unconventional interview process back in 2016, Microsoft quickly hired him as a software engineer.

His manager Brent Truell says he was immediately impressed by Christopher's "out of the box" thinking.

"When we are faced with really complicated problems, the solutions to those aren't always simple," said Truell. "And Christopher always kind of brings new insights. And having that creative mind, he always brings something new to the team, which is really exciting."

"Which is exactly why you hired him, right?

"Right."

It's an idea that's catching on.

Last April, 50 big-name companies -- including JP Morgan, Ford and Ernst & Young -- came together for a summit on how to bring more autistic adults into the workforce.

It was hosted at the Silicon Valley campus of German software maker SAP, which was one of the first large companies to reach out to the autistic community.

It started its Autism at Work Program almost five years ago, and since then it's hired 128 people on the spectrum, with the goal of hiring more than 600.

"I have been in this industry for close to 30 years, and I can tell you it's probably the single most rewarding program that I have been involved with," said Jose Velasco, who heads the program.

The biggest surprise for him, he says, has been the variety of candidates applying. "Very quickly we started getting resumes from people that had degrees in history, and literature in graphic design, attorneys ... the whole gamut of jobs," Velasco said.

"So really, you went into this thinking that people with autism would be good at certain jobs, and what you ended up discovering is they're good at all jobs?" asked Cowan.

"They are good at just about every role."

And they're expected to perform in those roles, just like anyone else.

Mike Seborowski, for example, was hired three years ago and works in cybersecurity in SAP's office outside of Philadelphia. When Cowan was visiting, Jose was helping Mike get ready for a long stint at the company world headquarters in Germany.

"If you would had told me six years ago that we would have an employee who was openly autistic in the company, going on a business trip to Germany for a month, I would have not believed you," said Velasco.

Almost everyone has been a surprise, he says. He points to 26-year-old Gloria Mendoza.

She told Cowan, "You should see some of the videos I had when I was a child. I was not very socially skilled with the other kids. Not showing interest with other people, displaying some of the challenging behaviors that a child on the autism spectrum would have."

Her parents, Rosaura and Enrique Mendoza, helped get Gloria years of speech and occupational therapies, as well as access to top doctors. "When she was very young, I used to worry so much because I never thought she will overcome all what she has done," said Rosaura. "So, it was like a very dark cloud."

Gloria made huge strides in her childhood, but her parents were still concerned about how autism might affect her future.

"We worry about her adult life -- well, first of all, could she make it through high school?" said Enrique. "Then, once she does that, you know, can she make it through college? Can she be independent?"

She made it through both high school and college; in fact, she got two degrees from Gettysburg College in Pennsylvania -- one in music (she has a beautiful singing voice), and another in computer science. And yet, a year after graduating -- and hundreds of resumes later -- she still couldn't find a job ... until she applied to SAP.

"Probably the best part about working here is that I can use the skills which I have studied whilst being among people that understand who I am and how I'm different from everybody else," she said.

SAP put Mendoza through five weeks of training, which included working on her social skills.

She's now in something called Digital Business Services, where she deals directly with customers.

Cowan asked, "What's the one dream you really want to come true?"

"Probably that I can be really up there in my department, earning a lot of money, and still keeping the friends that I have," she replied.

Her new friends are mostly co-workers in the autism program, and they try to get together regularly. Cowan watched as Mendoza and her friends participated in Game Night.

"And that, CBS, is how you play Smash Brothers!" said Gloria.

She told Cowan, "I never really had that many friends when I was younger, and having this wide variety of friends that understands me really makes all the difference for me."

How so? "'Cause I can express myself in ways that people won't look at me weird. And it turns out that a lot of people have common interests as I do."

SAP boasts a retention rate of about 90% for their autistic employees. Part of that may be due to the fact they're not just set adrift in the workplace all alone. Each participant in the program is assigned a mentor from within the company -- like an on-site guardian angel.

Gabby Robertson-Cawley, who has a cousin on the spectrum, volunteered to work with Gloria. "I think it's just the rewards of getting to be friends with these colleagues who have autism -- it's not something you get in your typical corporate day-to-day experience," Robertson-Cawley said.

Microsoft also has mentors. Melanie Carmosino, who works with Christopher Pauley, has a personal connection as well; she has a son who's autistic.

Cowan asked, "What have you taken away from this whole experience, personally?"

"Hope," Carmosino replied. "I think that this program gives hope to the autism community. It gives hope to parents like me, and it gives hope to people like my son that a company can, and will, look past their differences and see their gifts and let them contribute to society just like everybody else."

Christopher Pauley is now independent, living on his own in a high-rise apartment, something he's always wanted.

Cowan said, "I don't want to ask how much you're making, but you're doing pretty good, it sounds like, yeah?"

"Yes," he said.

"Could you ever imagine you'd be making this much money?"

"No, I never did! Honestly I would have been perfectly happy with, like, half the money I'm making now."

He bought a car and drives himself to work -- and for the first time, he says, looks forward to arriving at a place where he's accepted for who he is.

He knows there are still challenges ahead, but given a chance to prove his worth, says Christopher, has given him an optimism he never had.

Cowan asked, "If other kids, or young adults, or adults with autism are watching this, what's your message to them?"

"Don't give up, and make sure to always aim high," he replied. "Don't aim in the middle You know, shoot for the stars every time, 'cause you never know what might happen."

See also:
For more info:

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The growing acceptance of autism in the workplace

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We like to think that good work is always rewarded. But what if some people who could do good work can't their foot in the door in the first place? That's where recent hiring initiatives that look beyond unfair stereotypes come in, as Lee Cowan reports in our Cover Story: Twenty-seven-year-old Christopher Pauley thought he had it all figured out when it came to looking for a job.

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Ms.P did not spend a lot of the interview on the SAP program, this video above gives a great overview. From our conversations I think she finds more interest in building relationships and opportunities with smaller local companies who will open doors for a larger portion of the population. There are only so many SAP's and Microsoft's in the world, compared to the employers in your local community.

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This program also came up in our conversation. It's a program that connects and supports the employment of Autistic adults.

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Businesses around the world are recognizing the many strengths of adults with autism and their contributions to the workforce. Workplace Inclusion Now™ (WIN) is a collaboration of dozens of subject matter experts, business leaders, professionals with autism and members of the community. Together, we will increase employment opportunities and build workplaces where people with autism - and businesses - can thrive.

Why should employers join Workplace Inclusion Now?

Hiring people with autism and other intellectual and/or developmental differences isn't just about "doing the right thing." It's good for business. The benefits are vast and meaningful:

Welcoming workplaces drive innovation and ROI, and improve corporate culture.

Inclusive workplaces improve retention (up to 98% reported by some Silicon Valley companies), attendance and safety.

Diverse, welcoming, inclusive workplaces positively impact the bottom line.

In the U.S. alone, hundreds of thousands of people on the spectrum are ready and willing to work but don't have jobs or aren't working to their full potential.

Nearly half of 25-year-olds with autism have never held a paying job, and global estimates range as high as 85% un- or underemployment.

These statistics are not driven by a lack of employable skills. They are driven by old paradigms and processes that don't give people with autism the support they need to thrive in the workplace.

By participating in WIN, companies can not only play a crucial role in building more inclusive communities; they can also see significant positive impact on their success as a business.

Interested in learning more? Sign up here!

Other tools and resources:

The Autism @ Work Playbook is the product of a collaborative research project led by Dr. Hala Annabi, an associate professor at the University of Washington Information School. To create this guide, the ACCESS-IT Research Group at the Information School studied the Autism @ Work programs of four leading employers: Microsoft, SAP, JPMorgan Chase and EY.

Autism Speaks was proud to partner with Microsoft and others to produce the Autism Empowerment Kit in 2017. The kit provides employers with guidance, recommendations and resources for providing support and workplace accommodations to empower autistic employees throughout their employment lifecycle - from recruitment to training and career development. The Empowerment Kit is available for free download thanks to the Global Impact Sourcing Coalition (GISC), a forum of the world's leading companies committed to incorporate and scale impact sourcing as a business strategy.

We are thrilled that there is growing interest among businesses to explore how they can set up their own autism hiring initiatives. Companies are increasingly reaching out to Autism Speaks and others with questions about how to put together an effective program. In August 2018, we were proud to collaborate with legal experts from Duane Morris, LLP, SAP and Cornell University's Yang-Tan Institute on Employment and Disability to present this webinar that addresses legal t opics.

As part of a national funders' collaborative, Autism Speaks is proud to partner with the Workplace Initiative at the Poses Family Foundation. The Workplace Initiative helps companies recruit, hire and retain the largest untapped labor pool in the country - people with disabilities. This site offers all the tools and resources a business needs to embark on its inclusion journey. It includes facts and case studies to show how disability inclusion drives business value and a do-it-yourself guide that will take you from "how" to "hired" in seven clear steps. The Disability Employment and Inclusion: Your Guide to Success was published in 2017.

This 7-step guide was developed by the Employer Assistance and Resource Network on Disability Inclusion (EARN), a free resource that is funded by the U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP). Developed with input from a range of employers with exemplary track records in disability employment, Inclusion@Work outlines seven core components of a disability-inclusive workplace, along with a menu of strategies for achieving them.

Additional Resources

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Businesses around the world are recognizing the many strengths of adults with autism and their contributions to the workforce. Workplace Inclusion Now™ (WIN) is a collaboration of dozens of subject matter experts, business leaders, professionals with autism and members of the community.

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Currently, Ms.P works at Drexel University as the employment advisor for the Autism support program. Drexel's program originally started in 2008, stopped, and was re-initiated in 2018. The program originally started with a focus on life skills and about two years ago shifted to employment. Currently Ms. P has about 60 students to coach on issues of employment and managing their schedules related to school.

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Does the student sign up for your program or are they assigned? "Drexel's program is neurodiverse support, the student signs up and there is no need for a formal diagnosis." other programs in the area have different qualities, West Chester U has a program that facilitates social events monthly and a student run store where real life experiences are worked on. Kinney Center's support program functions more like a 1:1 support for students in classes. Both programs require a diagnosis to be eligible.

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Does the student sign up for your program or are they assigned? "Drexel's program is neurodiverse support, the student signs up and there is no need for a formal diagnosis." other programs in the area have different qualities, West Chester U has a program that facilitates social events monthly and a student run store where real life experiences are worked on. Kinney Center's support program functions more like a 1:1 support for students in classes. Both programs require a diagnosis to be eligible.

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What are the problems at work? "it's never the work, it's not showing up or missing meetings (not socially understanding the protocol of calling out sick/ feeling like they aren't being called on in meetings so therefore it's not necessary they attend) rigid behavior, interrupting others, poor task initiation."

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What are the problems at work? "it's never the work, it's not showing up or missing meetings (not socially understanding the protocol of calling out sick/ feeling like they aren't being called on in meetings so therefore it's not necessary they attend) rigid behavior, interrupting others, poor task initiation."

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What would be beneficial to younger students to prepare for the work place? " find what they like doing, it's the key to success. Find employment opportunity for them when they are in high school so they can learn the basics of how to be an employee." she also expressed the importance of employers taking risk on hiring autistic kids and more peer exposure. We talked about how people with disabilities are more part of the community than they were in previous eras, and also the rapid rising rate of diagnosis and how it is dire that we find opportunities for these young adults.

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What I learned from both of these interviews is that an environment that is adapted for the student or employee is important to maximize the potential for success doing the job or task, and building Peer social communications and understanding is absolutely key for inclusion at the work place and it all starts with the classrooms. I'm going to leave the presentation on a light note, the friendship between Sam and Zahid from the Netflix series Atypical and Julia from Sesame Street. Friendship is important for everyone and kids on the spectrum have really bad statistics when it comes to issues of loneliness and depression. Media depictions can be tricky, I personally find these positive, I mean no offense if you feel differently.

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Atypical | Sam Remembers His First Day At Techtropolis

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What To Know About Being A Good Friend To Someone With Autism, According To Sesame Street | TODAY