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"If only I could get myself to fall in love with you...that would be the thing for me" What does this say about his view of love?-Carlin

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"If only I could get myself to fall in love with you...that would be the thing for me" What does this say about his view of love?-Carlin

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Flora-"he feels bad he loves Estella but knows Biddy is the one for him."
Maya-"he knew he wouldn't go through so many obstacles if he loved Biddy, but at the same time, he knew he loved Estella"
Carlin-"immature to make someone love them if they don't. People only married within their own class, more accepted in that time period.
Flora-do you think Biddy should have married Joe? In the ending, do you think Biddy should have...
(laughter)
Sydney-"I feel like a lot of the readers didn't want that to happen because Pip..it was a friendship and they wanted...the author was..I didn't like it because they didn't show that relationship.."
Maya-"I believe that the fact that Joe and Biddy...author's way of adding another obstacle in his life. It was like karma for everything he put his family through, for becoming obnoxious.."
Flora
Maya

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"PBS...what are your opinions on how the director chose to depict..how would Dickens feel of his portrayal?"-Carlin

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"PBS...what are your opinions on how the director chose to depict..how would Dickens feel of his portrayal?"-Carlin

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Carlin-"Estella stood up for herself.."
Colin-"Estella did not like H too much but technically still family. Writing letters, still family.
Maya-"you have to put into consideration the relationship mother-daughter would have. she would still write to her mother after because still her mother."
Flora-everyone has had an argument with their parent before but in the end, we still love them.

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Was it really Estella's fault or Ms. H's fault for the treatment of Pip?-Carlin

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Was it really Estella's fault or Ms. H's fault for the treatment of Pip?-Carlin

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Hemza-"half and half, part of her knows she was raised to be different..."
Lac-"I would disagree, it isn't her fault because Ms. H raised her that way. How would she know between right and wrong if no one tells her?"
Maya-"I agree. She really didn't know anything else. Her mother was the most important figure...of course she would want to make her mother happy. She was trying to do what her mother said so she wouldn't end up like her mother.."
Flora-"she doesn't know anything else.."
Colin-"I kind of disagree because I feel like sure, she was taught this way but at the same time, Estella cannot always be living with ..you do this..Estella also has her own perspective on this..not just following Ms. H."
Hemza-"I agree, at a certain point, generally, most kids...are told to do things but don't want to. Rebellious.."
Sydney-"I agree, I feel like she could have rebelled against what her mother told her but she chose not to"
Maya-"as she was younger, she did not know any better, as she grew older, she would start getting in to arguments...did not think it was fair.."

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If you had the opportunity to change the title of the book..-Carlin

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If you had the opportunity to change the title of the book..-Carlin

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Laughter-
Flora-"no expectations...!"
Colin-"because there's nothing great!"
Sydney-"the benefactor"
Group agrees
Jhoyce
Flora-"title should be something unexpected..Magwitch"

Lac-"so like the unexpected?"

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Why do you think Dickens was told to change the ending?-Lac

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Why do you think Dickens was told to change the ending?-Lac

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Flora-they didn't like it
Hemza-people doen't agree..
Flora-if you're trying to put your expectations there, it might be one general unhappiness. The original ending was that E married..Pip stays single. Other people wanted them to be together"
Lac-I thought that the original ending changed because it did not emphasize why E changed. In the book, her husband used her quite cruelly...only mention of why she changed. In the second ending, it says that E hopes for a better shape. It seems to emphasize why she has changed for the better."
Colin-The original ending was more realistic but the changed ending was a happy, normal story"

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Do you think Magwitch deserved a second chance or was it right to be caught?-Maya

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Do you think Magwitch deserved a second chance or was it right to be caught?-Maya

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Colin-"yes and no. He should have a second chance, his motives were right but he did make some mistakes.."
Flora-"I feel like he should have. He paid off..worked to get where Pip is and he thought his daughter died."
Sydney-"not a lot of people knew about his situation, only a few people he trusted."
Carlin-"Magwitch was seen as ...it was for a purpose, he set a purpose to influence him as his benefactor, but at the same time...we need to own up to our own mistakes. If he did something in the past as a convict he should serve his time, but..."
Maya-"second chance. Magwitch shows his change..he becomes compassionate to Pip. Motives show...he changed and was working to give somebody else a better life."
Eric-clarifying question
Flora, Carlin clarify
Lac-"any last words?"

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Why must Pip always bear the name Pip?-Carlin

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Why must Pip always bear the name Pip?-Carlin

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Flora-he wanted Pip to be the same boy from the marshes, the boy who brought him the pie.
Hemza-"obnoxious, getting used to being wealthy, I think Magwitch thought that if he kept his name, he would stay that way..."
Invites Eric to discussion
Eric-N/A

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How does GE relate to TKAM within the topic of Bildungsroman?-Sydney

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How does GE relate to TKAM within the topic of Bildungsroman?-Sydney

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Colin-"Scout relates to Pip in that they're both very young. Scout does not know what to do. Pip looked up to Joe similarly to Scout looking up to Atticus. Atticus was respected, Pip looked up to Joe."
Flora-"there's a lot of segregation, racism and social class. We see them maturing-Pip and Jem..loss of innocence, how they see their world."
Lac-"But Jem, Scout and Pip..social class and elevated to higher social class, had multiple perspectives. Scout and Jem see their community be racist...they've seen how..treated unfairly.."
Sydney-"both grew up from restrictive environments,..they both develop into gentlemen-Pip and Scout.."
Flora-"Pip is similar to Jem..their dislike..helped them to learn.."
Sydney-"lessons were learned"

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GE is a bildungsroman..As Pip grows up, how does it change our perspectives as we grow up?-Colin

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GE is a bildungsroman..As Pip grows up, how does it change our perspectives as we grow up?-Colin

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Flora-"we learn.."
Hemza-"we can see Pip's mistakes and learn from them and sort of like.."
Lac-"I agree, in addition to that, it's good to have people to care about you like Joe and Herbert"
Maya-"In addition to that, the book taught me that you have to hang on with where you're from. Pip was caught up in his own fantasy-he lost sight of who he truly was..that tells that we should never lose sight of who we are."
Eric-"it was shaped by..Ms. Joe.."
Jhoyce-"I agree, Pip grew up to be...in London he was more snobby, did not treat..paid attention to what he had...not who he was before."

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Sound of Thunder, altered the past to benefit the future, Miss H refuses to let go of the future..what can we learn from that?-Carlin

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Sound of Thunder, altered the past to benefit the future, Miss H refuses to let go of the future..what can we learn from that?-Carlin

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Collin-"Ms. H is always in this depressing state. It relates, she should move on than going to the past rather than to alter it. The Sound of Thunder can change the past, Ms. H cannot. She is only able to come back..instead of moving on."
Flora
Sydney-"both show that changing our future...it relates because it shows how Ms H..affects her as a person..moving on.."
Lac-"I would say that Sound of Thunder does relate because in SOT, the moral of the story is: actions have consequences; Pip made a lot of mistakes..led to debt, mistook Havisham as benefactor."

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How does GE relate to all the short stories we've read so far?-Lac

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How does GE relate to all the short stories we've read so far?-Lac

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Colin-"Scarlet Ibis, The Necklace, The Gift of the Magi.. a couple in debt find out truth of the fake diamond necklace. Did not have to have a horrible life. Relates..truth be told..if we talk it over, it will get better."
Lac-"I thought Gift of the Magi...it was about self-sacrifice, Joe and Magwitch sacrificed..Joe paid of debts, and Magwitch gave him his earnings to thank him."
Flora-"Scarlet Ibis, main characters..Bildungsroman...learned and matured."

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Would Pip's life have been better if he did not have a benefactor?-Hemza

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Would Pip's life have been better if he did not have a benefactor?-Hemza

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Maya-"Pip would not have been better, he would have been miserable"
Colin-"I kind of agree..Pip set his goal to be a blacksmith. Ever since Havisham invited him over, he would have preferred to have that relationship.."
Hemza-"I agree, he would not be satisfied."
Flora-"After all that...social status and wealth does not make him happier.."
Maya-"Do you think after being away for so long, would Pip realize..."
Carlin-"she was..raised to bring havoc on men..how do you think Pip's personality changed?"
Maya-"I think Pip was more hopeful. Money=closer to becoming a gentleman."
Carlin-"advancements...he realized he could pursue Estella and marry her."
Colin-"it made him more mature"
Flora-"responsible, paying off debts..he even tried helping Herbert"

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How does GE relate to R and J in terms of tragedy? -Flora

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How does GE relate to R and J in terms of tragedy? -Flora

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Colin-"similar in that Pip and Estella were different...."
Flora-"rash decisions"
Invites Jhhoyce
Jhyoce-"I agree...without thinking, thinking only about themselves rather than the consequences of their choices"
Eric-"to add...Pip did not care about his family after his training...R &J ignore their families."
Lac-"I agree, Pip was told not to speculate...Romeo was warned by Friar not to be too rash..as Pip was told not to speculate...both ignored those warnings and ended up in tragic situations."