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I think that grammar is one of the most important things to learn but sometimes its harder to learn when we are older.

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Well said, I do believe that once you learn something that you never forget. Thats why this sould be learned at a young age

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That was a great message. I like how you took the passage.

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I disagree completely. Although, "The Rap God," may have a great vocabulary, I feel James Patterson has a much more impressive vocab list.

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I also believe that expressing your thoughts is important but only if you can support them.  If you fail to fully express your thoughts then your work seems weak and your point may be overlooked.

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I 100% agree with this statement

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Youshould feel

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I disagree, you should feel confident in everything you do, not just writing. (#StriveForGreatness) Teachers are teaching us because they know what is best. Therefore, when they teach us grammar techniques, it is not that they are changing our style, but instead are teaching us the proper way to put thoughts from our brain onto paper. Your own style of writing will still be the same due to the fact it is your own personal thoughts. The instructor is giving you lessons on how to properly write.

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As a child, grammar is new and fresh to you. If we are taught the correct way to use it at a young age, then as we grow up and produce more pieces of writing, we can include our own personal touches on them and begin to break some of the rules.

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Grammar is good to learn at an early stage. Like said in the article its like riding a bike. You really don't forget grammar as long as you continue to use grammar in daily lives. Also writing all the time would make people realize from the critics that they were wrong for their mistake and they would fix what they did wrong.

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I agree completely, there are too many rules that tend to scare us as students away from what we were originally trying to say.

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I agree completely, we have always been degraded because of our improper use or lack of grammar that by the time we are done with the paper its not even our work anymore. Its the corrections given to us and the restriction of the red pen.

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I disagree, I feel as though grammar should be taught until you're comfortable enough to use it correctly all the time. If kids feel uncomfortable with writing because of grammar then wouldn't it make sense to stop at nothing until that student has correct grammar? If we just stop teaching grammar to those who need it and just let them write then aren't we hindering their education?

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I believe that as long grammar is being understood at all we have nothing to worry about. Not everyone can learn something one way because people are all complex and very different but that thought will lead to an off topic discussion. Personally I believe I learned most of my writing skills on reading other peoples works. The same way people learn how to speak I think people can learn to write. Although this form of writing is not 100% correct, I believe it will make a stronger foundation for which English teachers can improve upon.

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I agree with this article completely. The reason behind my opinion is that when you are writing papers to also help you learn grammar as well as understand it better you are learning earlier also how to create a strong essay or whatever it is that you are writing about. this just helps a person develop at a much faster rate and allows them to have a higher education in that field.

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Grammar should be taught when we are younger and it is something we should know how to do by now but I do believe fixing our grammar mistakes as we write and learning it in a new way will help people not despise writing as much as they do now and to help them have more of a voice in their writings.

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I believe that grammar is only important until you understand the basics of it completely. There are far too many rules for writing, and this can be scary. I personally have had instnaces where I had an idea, but then I had to disregard said idea due to some grammar rule that we are now being told to throw out, because you don't really have to follow the rules in college writing. With that in mind, what is the purpose of learning every rule out there over grammar?

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Grammar is, and always will be important. Without proper grammar, it can be very difficult to read any type of text. As students we never get to write for fun. Instead we have to follow certain guidelines and make sure we use the correct format and a bunch of other rules. I agree with the article when it says, "Once students get ideas that they care about on the page, they are ready for instruction- including grammar instruction- that will help communicate those ideas." In other words let us practice and take a shot at it, than correct us

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 Basic school grammar should be taught to us when we are younger, so that when we get older if writing is something you are interested in you can develop your own style.

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 Basic school grammar should be taught to us when we are younger, so that when we get older if writing is something you are interested in you can develop your own style.

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Basic school grammar is important. But look at Eminem (The Rap God), the dudes vocab is amazing and he can write lyrics for days. I bet he could write a really good and in-depth essay if he wanted to. A piece of writing is good when someone is talking about something they are passionate about. Although they may make grammatical errors, the content could still be amazing but they should have some knowledge about basic grammar.

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We should enforce grammar more when we're younger and keep enforcing it as we continue through grade school. Yes of course its a bad thing when kids are discouraged to write, but when these learn correct grammar and continue to constantly use it then their writing will become better as well. It also might not be how the schools are teaching grammar but maybe it's the level of willingness the student has towards learning and using correct grammar.

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I both agree and disagree with this article. I don't find it necessarily important to be able to identify the parts of the sentence. It only made things harder on me. However, I do think basic grammar should still be taught out side of writing. Even though writing a paper does help with the learning process, it won't let you perfect everything. More specific areas like when to use a dash or a comma should be reviewed every now and again just to keep the information fresh and ready to used..

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I believe that the material taught in schools, no matter what the subject is, needs to feel more relevant to the students. For example, one of the possible reasons that writing skills have been decreasing over the past 40 years could be because students aren't attached to it, they feel like they don't need it, and so their brain deletes the information, creating space for the stuff that the student finds more interesting. Then since they either didn't pay attention to any of the grammar rules, or just felt like it's not needed, they'll end up bombing an essay or getting writing anxiety like the article said. This problem would never have occurred if the student wouldn't have been subject to monotonous, repetitive grammar tables. I am however not stating this to be the absolute truth, this could just be a possible reason that this crisis is occurring.

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I believe that learning grammar is important but I also agree that it is important for it to be paired with writing sentences. think that when being taught it would be important for the student to  be able to express their opinion before they are fully expected to be able to make everything grammatically correct.

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"Everybody should be taught but not the way we are taught."
What way is that?
What way would you prefer to be taught?

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Zoe, I strongly disagree.
-Braeden

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I agree with you 100% Emily! I feel like we both have very similar thoughts about this subject.

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You're totally right. People should not feel scared to write what they think is right.

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I completely agree with your statement. I always see posts on facebook or twitter with incorrect grammar, and I always want to tell them about their mistake.

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Don't you think if we write the mistakes that we would keep writing them and never actually learn them.

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I like the approach of the article because it is easy to relate to. Every time I am asked to write a paper or essay I get stopped because of proper grammar and I do not mix all that well

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Very well said.

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Students are so self-conscious because we were taught that way. In writing, are ideas are restricted because we have to do everything a certain way. There is always something better that you could do with your writing even if the writer thinks its perfect. There are too many rules to follow in writing to let us write what we really want to and how we want to.Even now I sit here and worry about how I wrote this and if my grammer is correct.

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Teaching us grammar can be good, but if there begins to be too many rules students will begin to worry too much about their grammar than the writing itself.

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Very well said Zoe!

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I believe teachers should just set us free like a pack of wolves while writing and let us make the mistakes before teaching us about it.

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I think we should be taught grammar so when we have a post on Facebook people wont comment trying to fix your mistakes.

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Everyone needs to know basic grammar, but it isn't always necessary to use it for writing. Grammar should be taught in Middle school or even the first year of high school but not throughout the entire time of high school since it won't help much.

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They're not confident in their writing because they've been critiqued their entire educational life on their writing.
-Braeden Pinkerton

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I feel that the reason students are so self-conscious about their writing is because no matter how creative the writing is they constantly get their work criticized because of grammatical errors. Whenever they start to feel comfortable with their writing someone finds an error to point out and so they start to feel like their work isn't good enough.

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I also think think it is hard to start my writing. I feel like we focused on grammar too much when we were younger. Also i feel as if teachers should let us write about things that we like or prefer to write about because that makes it difficult to start writing too.

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Basic grammar is important and everybody should be taught but not the way we are taught. Nobody should ever be scared to write.

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Kids should be able to feel confident in their writing. Teaching us grammar techniques changes that persons style of writing which could be really good. we need to be taught some grammar but changing our personal style of writing.

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It seems like in the past when we had an assignment to write about something. We had to focus more on how we present the information in a certain manner in order to meet the teachers standards rather than just writing and letting it flow. I don't know about everyone else, but my papers were trash once i made it acceptable for the teacher because it wasn't how i originally had it written. What would make sense to the teacher, didn't always make sense to me. And i feel like it was never fully explained to us.

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I think basic grammar should be taught but not as we are taught. Nobody should ever be scared to write.

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I think that we need to be taught the basic rules of grammar. But I believe that we should be able to use it as we wish and not forced into using it. I have been in a position to where I was scared to write because I was being forced into using grammar.

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I believe we do need to be taught basic grammar, but not pushed to where we are scared to write. I have been pushed to the limit where I didn't want to write because I was too focused on grammar.

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Basic grammar is important and everybody should have to learn it, but I don't think that it should be taught the way it is. I think that the article is right and that we should learn oursel

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In order to be able to write in any situation you must know some grammar rules. Marcia Hurlow"s research has shown that many errors "disappear" from student writing when students focus on their ideas and stop "trying to 'sound correct.'" For myself, I find that when I try to sit down and write a paper my imagination and ideas fade as I am too worried about my grammar. If we write our ideas down and then go through and talk about the grammatical errors it will be less stressful for the writer.

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You're so right!
-Braeden Pinkerton

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I have always struggled learning and memorizing grammar and its rules. I also know the feeling of being "paralyzed" while writing a paper. Being taught grammar is necessary but to an extent. We should be able to be creative with our writing techniques and not subjected to one way of thinking. I believe programs like what Arizona State has, is a wonderful program to educate and inspire students to become college graduates because it is easier than the standard grammar teachings.

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Basic school grammar is necessary. If you didn't learn basic grammar then your writing would be how it was when you were young. The article is not saying we do not need any grammar, it is saying the way we learn it should change. "Just as we teach children how to ride a bike by putting them on a bicycle, we need to teach students how to write grammatically by letting them write."

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The basic grammar rules are needed in order for your writing to be understood, but extensive teaching of grammar is not needed. I agree with the article in the fact that kids should write then go over their writing to find the grammatical errors

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When writing, I believe it is very important for us to use grammar correctly. But  too many rules can be restrictive. I think some over think the simple concepts of grammar. Therefore, I think we as a whole start to think we are restricted when it comes to express our way of writing, keeping in my mind that we need to be "grammatically correct".

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When writing a paper I feel as if you should be able to let your mind run with whatever topic you have. Not everyone writes the same way and I feel that is what everyone is looking for.

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But I guess the question is, do people learn it on their own "through reading and writing" or do they just continue to make mistakes and produce bad writing because they don't know any better? Or don't care...

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I think that knowing basic grammar is necessary to write.  I find it hard to start writing because I always want to make sure my grammar is correct.

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Read the comment section that follows the article for other interesting perspectives on this topic.

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These students are victims of the mistaken belief that grammar lessons must come before writing, rather than grammar being something that is best learned through writing. I saw the high cost of this phenomenon first-hand at the urban community college where I taught writing for eight years, an institution where more than 90 percent of students failed to complete a two-year degree within three years. (The national average is only marginally better at roughly 80 percent.) A primary culprit: the required developmental writing classes that focused on traditional grammar instruction. Again and again, I witnessed aspiration gave way to discouragement. In this seven-college system, some 80 percent of the students test into such classes where they can spend up to a year before being asked to write more than a paragraph. Nationally, over half of university and college students in developmental classes drop out before going any further. Essentially, they leave before having begun college.

Happily, there are solutions. Just as we teach children how to ride bikes by putting them on a bicycle, we need to teach students how to write grammatically by letting them write. Once students get ideas they care about onto the page, they are ready for instruction-including grammar instruction-that will help communicate those ideas. We know that grammar instruction that works includes teaching students strategies for revising and editing, providing targeted lessons on problems that students immediately apply to their own writing, and having students play with sentences like Legos, combining basic sentences into more complex ones. Often, surprisingly little formal grammar instruction is needed. Researcher Marcia Hurlow has shown that many errors "disappear" from student writing when students focus on their ideas and stop "trying to 'sound correct.'"

There are also less immediately apparent costs to having generations of learners who associate writing only with correctness. Invariably, when people learn that I teach writing, they offer their "grammar confessions." Sheepishly, they tell me that they "never really learned grammar," and sadly, it also often comes out that they avoid writing. I have interviewed an executive who locked herself in her office and called her son when she had to write reports, and I have had parents describe writing their child's paper because the kid was paralyzed with writing anxiety. I have even had people tell me that they passed up job opportunities because they required writing.

Schools that have shifted from traditional "stand-alone" grammar to teaching grammar through writing offer concrete proof that such approaches work. They are moving more students more quickly into college-level courses than previously thought possible. One of these is a program at Arizona State in which students who test below college-level in their writing ability immediately begin writing college essays. More than 88 percent of these students pass freshman English-a pass rate that is higher than that for students who enter the university as college-level writers. At the Community College of Baltimore, a program in which developmental writing students get additional support while taking college-level writing classes has reduced the time these students spend in developmental courses while more than doubling the number who pass freshman composition. More than 60 colleges and universities are now experimenting with programs modeled on this approach.

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These students are victims of the mistaken belief that grammar lessons must come before writing, rather than grammar being something that is best learned through writing. I saw the high cost of this phenomenon first-hand at the urban community college where I taught writing for eight years, an institution where more than 90 percent of students failed to complete a two-year degree within three years.

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The article was very informative. In my opinion, being taught basic grammar is necessary for everyone, but after that you should have the choice to either be taught more extensive grammar or to just learn it on your own through reading and writing.

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I understand that we need basic grammar rules and stuff, but I don't think we should put such a heavy emphasis on them as we do. The whole purpose of writing is to communicate ideas, but the ability for some people to communicate them are impeded on because they can't fully express them due to the seemingly never ending list of rules you must abide by.
-Braeden Pinkerton

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I believe we need to understand some basic rules of grammar. With that being said, I also  find grammar to be restricting and cause many people to second guess themselves. I think grammar can limit our abilities as writers to express ourselves. As people we worry about all the rules such as not starting a sentence with a contraction and so on. I think it's important just to write without the fear of it being grammatically wrong.

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Grammar is important but I feel like it is overdone. Kids should not be afraid to write a paper. You should feel comfortable with your writing and no one should be intimidated about what he or she writes.

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As students, I do think we focus so much on grammer that our ideas and writing are restricted. I spend more time on just focusing on grammer and if i'm doing everything right then actual ideas. By that time I just cram in a story.

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I believe that grammar is important. I think that we should learn it growing up in a way that this article says. I think that having to memorize a bunch of rules for a test is pointless. If we were to learn like the article says I think that we would become more successful.

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I feel like grammar is necessary but to an extent.

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I hope that this new study and possibly new way to teach writing and grammar will give people confidence and will eventually give them the opportunity to take any job they want; not fearing what they might have to write.

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Grammar can be taught in many different ways some people like to be taught by writing and other people not so much.

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I think grammar should be taught some when we are younger but not so much as we get older

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Grammar is important but expressing your thoughts is more important. Proofreading can always be done after the paper has been written and you have fully explained your thoughts.

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I feel that basic school grammar is not necessary because you can be a good writer and know what you want to say and just not be able to spell some words right or misplace a few commas. -That is word to Caden Hayward

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It says in the article, "Once students get ideas that they care about on the page, they are ready for instruction- including grammar instruction- that will help communicate those ideas."

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I feel like basic grammar is necessary to an extent because if you don't know basic grammar your writing won't be as good as it should be

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I think the reason that students become so self- conscious about writing is because for so long we were graded for how well our grammar was, not what we were specifically writing about. For students who want to academically exceed, they want to do the best they can.

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"I have found over and over again that they over-edit themselves from the moment they sit down to write. They report thoughts like 'Is this right? Is that right?'"

This is what I see in class year after year. But why do you think students become so self-conscious about their writing?

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i think it was real neat how they preformed the study between students being taught a traditional way, an alternative way, and a way that has no grammar lessons at all and the results were no significant differences in any of the groups. this means grammar lessons are pointlesssssssss.

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After reading the assigned article, your job is to respond to the text in a thoughtful way. Quote the text when appropriate, and ask questions of the text or of other people on the discussion board. When responding to another person's post, refer to them by name for the sake of clarity.