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“I study arranged marriage because it is a living laboratory in which to learn about the process of building love.

From both my research and the research of many of my colleagues in the behavioral sciences, I have come to believe this process can be packaged in ways that will eventually empower millions of people in the West without importing arranged marriage itself.”

Jad: Hi Epstein, I have been reflecting on your article "How Disney Ruined Our Love Lives" and I wanted to address some concerns I have. To begin with, it seems that your perspective romanticizes Eastern practices as you attempt to import them into the Western context without fully understanding them.

Epstein: My intention is not to romanticize, but to observe and learn from practices that clearly work in certain contexts. I do believe arranged marriage offers valuable lessons on building love intentionally, something often missing in Western romantic culture.

Jad: The way you present these practices feels reductive. Arranged marriages are far more complex than a simple tool for "building love intentionally”. When you attempt to distil these ideas into something that can be measured in a lab, it risks commodifying love, turning it into something that can be standardized like a product.

Epstein: I see your concern, arranged marriages are deeply complex. My research is not about stripping down these traditions or reducing love to a formula, but about offering insight into how love can grow intentionally, rather than relying solely on initial attraction.

Jad: Well your study on arranged marriages is problematic, lacks peer review and external validation. Most of your data relies on small sample sizes and self reported surveys, which are prone to bias. These methods weaken the credibility of your findings, especially when applied to something as subjective and culturally specific as love.

Epstein: Small sample sizes and self reported surveys are limitations, and I acknowledge that peer review is an essential step I plan to pursue further. However, these studies are exploratory, designed to open new discussions, not provide definitive conclusions.

Jad: I understand that your research is exploratory, but the issue with extracting “principles" is that it risks oversimplifying incredibly diverse cultural practices. Take the example of bride kidnappings in Kyrgyz culture or the matrilineal traditions of the Mosuo people in China. Approaching these practices WITHOUT comparison to Western ideals is essential, yet your article seems to frame everything in a binary which does not capture the complexity of either side and risks making sweeping generalizations about both Western and non Western cultures.

Epstein: Well of course there is more complexity than my research captures. Love, marriage and cultural traditions are incredibly multifaceted. A lot of my writing is really just an attempt to sell ideas to an indifferent audience or the lonely, deprived majority in troublesome relationships in hopes of making a quick buck. Honestly, Im a sham and my research is shallow at best. I throw in controversial statements here and there and I guess that makes me feel smart like Im someone who can make sweeping generalizations about, well, everything. I wrote a few books and now Im this big shot being quoted by everyone from fanatic Islamists to ultra conservative Jews, all hoping to use my arguments to justify arranged marriages. Why? Because a white guy with a PhD from Harvard said so. I do not acknowledge my privileges and I pick and choose the perspectives that suit me best, packaging them nicely through the rose coloured lens I see the world through, for a wider audience, without all the brutal, harrowing effects that destroy and disfigure the soul and minds of the victims. But hey, thanks for this "dialogue", it is really important for creating a more balanced and sensitive approach. /s

Jad: Okay thanks, was great putting words in your mouth with no legal implications.

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Invented Dialogue- Anthony Sakr

“Many of the original stories on which Disney based his films are about lives that are brutal and dark. After the prince marries the wrong woman in Hans Christian Andersen’s “The Little Mermaid,” a despondent Ariel throws herself into the sea and dissolves into the sea foam. In Giambattista Basile’s story of Sleeping Beauty, the already-married king eventually marries the young beauty, but only after she gives birth to twins — the outcome of his having raped her while she was still deeply asleep. The Grimm brothers’ tales about Snow White and Rapunzel are not sentimental and inspirational; they are creepy and complex, intended to warn children about life’s rough road.”

Anthony: Hello Dr. Epstein, thank you for coming.

Dr. Epstein: Thank you for inviting me today, Anthony, I am excited to answer your questions.

Anthony: Well, if so, let’s begin. Firstly, I wanted highlight how shocked I was when I read your article, especially when I learned that how dark and gruesome where the stories that Disney was inspired from. So, my question to you is: Why do you think Disney chose to cleanse these stories and what do you think we lost as a result?

Dr Epstein: Disney wanted to give a sense of comfort, a sense of false hope to a wider population mainly the younger generation, so they took advantage of their young and pure minds and brainwashed them by building new “fairy tale” stories off of dreamy and ideal endings. By doing so they hid away the original realistic lessons that were meant to be learned from the stories which would give a realistic point a view of what is and what the children should expect from real life.

Anthony: So, the original stories were preparing the younger generation the harsh realities of today’s world whereas the Disney versions create unrealistic expectations especially around relationships, would you agree?

Dr Epstein: Yes, Disney stories are made to believe that love at first sight exists. However, we know well that real and meaningful love is achieved through a lot of time and effort. By promoting instant connections and idealized romances, children are made to believe that love is magical and is found rather fast and easy, when in fact it’s quite the opposite.

Anthony: So, I guess it’s safe to say that the original stories would make us more prepared to go through life that the Disney stories.

Dr Epstein: Absolutely. These darker versions were more grounded in reality. They offered warnings and lessons about human nature, about loss, betrayal, and the need to persevere through hard times. Disney’s versions may be beautiful, but they deprive us of those deeper insights, and that, in a way, can make real-life challenges feel more overwhelming because we weren’t prepared for them.

Anthony: I think you are absolutely right. Thank you so much for taking the time to come mee me.

Dr Epstein: It is more than a pleasure. I always take the time to answer to my audience’s questions.

Anthony: Goodbye Dr Epstein!

Dr. Epstein: Goodbye!

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"

Finally, one morning, we wake up and realize our partner is actually not “the one.” We have made a mistake, misled, perhaps, by false promises, a gorgeous smile or killer abs. All too often, that’s how we mate and split in the U.S.

"

Epstein: Yo.

Me: Yo.

Epstein: What do you want.

Me (Breaking the fourth wall): I'll be making up my own rules for this assignment as I allow myself to make use of an article I found on Dr. Epstein about a negative experience he had with love.

So, Ep, I noticed you have a really pessimistic view on "real relationships", where do you think that comes from?

Ep: I assume you're about to bring up the aforementioned article.

Me: Perhaps.

Ep: Fine, go on.

Me: Would you say being fooled by that chatbot despite you being a psychologist who specializes in relationships and love had anything to do with your take on Walt Disney and his stories?

Ep: This had no relation to that. I firmly believe that these unrealistic standards established by Walt Disney and his altering of these dark and real stories truly have an impact on our relationships today.

Me: So you really think there's no such thing as a truly pure and honest relationship in which the partner you marry really does end up being the same one you die with?

Ep: Well it's not impossible but I would definitely say it's very highly unlikely.

Me: So having this amazing image of a person you love is, according to you, not something that lasts but rather what could easily be broken and leave room for the sad sad truth to show?

Ep: Yes.

Me: Doesn't that remind you of that chatbot experience, Ep?

Ep: This is exactly why I stopped showing up to these family gatherings. I knew I shouldn't have come. I'm leaving.

Me: This is why your relationships don't last.

Ep: Goodbye Robin.

Me: Cya next year Ep.

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Dr. Robert Epstein fell in love with the woman of his dreams. The only problem was it wasn’t a real woman. He had been fooled by a computer…

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How About A Middle Ground? -Alwalid Hemaid.

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How About A Middle Ground? -Alwalid Hemaid.

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"Though some will continue to gamble their happiness on the throw of the dice, others will choose to take control, using time-tested techniques to create a relationship that grows stronger over time, not weaker."

(Set Halfway through "Unrestricted," The Talkshow)

Alwalid: "So next up for discussion is some critical feedback I've formed to share to you based on this one part that really caught my eye for one hasty trait."

Dr. E: "Please, I welcome any form of constructive criticism."

Alwalid: (Text displayed on a 98-Inch Plasma TV) "This text near the end of the article divides the world of relationships into two halves with an either/or statement; it classifies all of the West's relationships under an "ill-fated" category and puts the other side of the world under a righteous light, despite the lack of consideration for what factors may have set those statistics besides supposed strong love. This could include laws prohibiting divorce, unhappy marriages bound by parental duties, or even enforced relationships by the community around them which would supposedly bring their families to shame in case of a decision to part ways.

Dr. E: Now such boundaries truly may have altered with the numbers to yield higher rates, but how can I go on with such a scope without evidence to back it up?

Alwalid: This brings me to a sub-point: those numbers have always been noted under "studies," but not one resource was mentioned by name, let alone the controlled environment's details of accuracy & demographic scope, to have a clear image of how trustworthy the data truly is. But for my case, sources like the UNHRC produced several reports on the legal and psychological drawbacks highlighting how forced marriages (including many arranged marriages) violate basic human rights & lead to profound emotional distress by disregarding individual autonomy and consent.

Dr. E: I suppose your argument holds a more well grounded basis which is a valid note to keep in mind for my future depictions. The drawbacks reasonably attack the point of arranged marriages, but they still hold positive values that I will come back to you about with the related resources.

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“Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ.”

Me: Good day Dr. Robert. We are excited to have you over as our guest today, please sit down and make yourself comfortable.

Dr. Robert Epstein: Nice to meet you, Sarah! I am glad you are enthusiastic about the article and have some questions to ask. Please go ahead.

Me: Well, it is regarding this section of the article reads him the section  where you discuss perhaps the pillars of real relationships. Further claiming that these altered stories, which Disney provided with such a large platform, are the result of many failed marriages, am I correct?

Dr. Robert Epstein: Technically yes, however, I did not specify that Disney was the direct cause, I stated that the altered version of these stories does more harm than good. Disney writers think they are doing us a favor by changing the originals stories, instead, they created a worse tragedy- They instilled false expectations of relationships into our children’s brains. Ones that will be difficult to remove and will build toxic patterns in the future.

Me: Well I agree that sometimes not everything is sunshine and daisies and that Disney stories have set a false expectation for all of us 2000s kids, however, would you prefer the portrayal of false, soul-crushing gone-wrong love stories to be portrayed to our kids so that maybe they would get the gist of it. Because your article had this undertone of repressed anger, especially towards the movies. Are these expectations the cause of all these breakups or maybe you just overgeneralized a bit to prove your point?

Dr. Robert Epstein: Well I state later on that “I am kidding” and Disney did not lead to our marriage downfall per se, but I just want children to have regular relationships broadcasted to their screens and that we should take a stand and notice how little things we wouldn’t notice impact our life in the long term.

Me: Yes I agree,  but I will comment on how you approached the subject, I feel like you were rather too rough, and the way of writing was very stereotypical with little to no evidence to support your claim.  I appreciate your use of statistics and studies further in the text these prove your credibility.

Dr. Robert Epstein: Thank you for these comments, I will consider it, after all, times are changing and Disney has noted these comments making their new films more inclusive.

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“In the U.S., we say, “First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage,” but in India, where more than 90 percent of marriages are still arranged by parents or matchmakers, people learn “First comes marriage, then comes love.” Research I’ve been conducting for a decade now confirms that in India and other countries where marriages are arranged many people do indeed build love deliberately over time. Yes, it can really be done.”

Dimitri: Welcome everyone to my weekly podcast, as always thanks for tuning in. Our topic today is related to love and relationship, but not in the way that you expect. I would like to welcome Dr. Robert Epstein, author, researcher with a P.H.D in psychology. You will see that his insight challenges our norm about love, and how a relationship should be for him, but let’s stop hearing from me for a bit.
Hello, Dr. Epstein, it’s a pleasure to have you here with us today. Can you just introduce yourself and a bit of your background?

Dr. Robert Epstein: Thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here. Well, to start, I’m a psychologist from Harvard University, and my main studies are related to Generativity Theory and Love Contract. Over the years, I’ve published topics ranging from creativity to parenting, but in my early years, I was fascinated about love in different cultures and their approaches about marriage.
In the U.S for example, early in life we get socialized with romantic love messages. Through nursery tales, movies, and popular culture in general, an ethos of love is one of the most powerful and overwhelming emotions, and it always leads to a happy ending. But with my work, I saw that this was not only unrealistic but was also setting people up for disappointment and heartbreak.
So I began to look around the world, about the different cultures related to love, and in Asia, the idea about marriage is different than the rest of the world. So, I asked myself, is it possible that love is built over time rather than the idea that we know, and read about it in these romantic children’s stories?

Dimitri: That’s an interesting point, and it’s contradicting what we know about love nowadays, and did you find in your studies that arranged marriages lead to greater relationship, than love marriage?

Dr. Robert Epstein: Interestingly enough, what I’ve found both in my studies is that in arranged marriages, love often starts small but grows steadily over time. This is very different from love marriages, where passion typically starts off very strong but gradually diminishes after a few years. In the cultures where we have arranged marriage, the report shows that people feel more in love with time, then people who get married “for love”
One of the important studies to which I refer in my work is a comparison of love and arranged marriages in India. The love marriages in those early years of marriage were marked by high levels of passion and romance, which weakened gradually. On the contrary, in arranged marriages, the couples started off with no romantic love, which over the years developed and after five to ten years, many described having a stronger affection and closer feelings than those who are married for love. Therefore, love isn’t a lightning bolt, like we think, rather It’s something that can be built deliberately through mutual care, sacrifice, and shared experiences.

Dimitri: Oh wow, that’s a very different approach that the “happily ever after”, that we know. And it looks like it’s related to your essays about how Disney and other media have shaped our expectations about love. Could you talk a little more about these stories and how they impact us?

Dr. Robert Epstein: Absolutely. The influence of cultural narratives on our expectations of love cannot be overstated. Disney is a prime example, and that’s why I wrote about it. The idea of love is given to us at a young age, and it’s like something magical happens between the 2 persons, these stories, though charming, are incredibly simplistic and fail to show the realities of building a long-term, sustainable relationship.
The problem is that we compare this ideology with ours without knowing, we think that loves come with passion, and if it isn’t the case, we think something is wrong; relationship or the second person, and leads to failed marriage, because that feeling of true love is still out there.
The Disney stories that we know today are modified, they had a much darker ending; they highlighted the struggle of life, rather than that perfect ending.

Dimitri : So it looks like these stories led us to see love as a destination, rather than a journey. And that difference creates a lot of disappointment when people find out that relationships require effort and isn’t perfect.

Dr. Robert Epstein: Yes, love isn’t the idea that everything will fall in place with it, relationship change.
Love needs constant investment and growth. In the case of arrange marriage, you go in the story knowing that you have to make it work, and love will come with time.
I think that if we shift our ideology, not to the extent of arranged marriage, but knowing that love can be built intentionally.

Dimitri: So, in your mind, this notion that love isn’t entirely out of our control, that it’s something we can actively grow. And that letting go of that ideology will help us in the long run.

Dr. Robert Epstein: If we can change the way we think about love and relationships, we can create bonds that grow stronger with time. We need to know that love is a process that takes time, commitment. And we can teach that to the next generation, by narrating new love stories, not related to a romantical idea.

Dimitri : I think that your message will resonate with some of our listeners, and I hope that it impacted some of you. Unfortunately, that’s all the time we have today, so I would like to thank you again for joining us today and sharing your point of view, and I know that I will be thinking about our conversation tonight.

Dr. Robert Epstein: It was a pleasure to be here and thank you for having me. I hope my idea inspire people to learn about their love lives in a new way

Dimitri : Absolutely, and for our listeners, I will list some of our guest’s work for you to discover, I think it’s interesting to see especially after our discussion. Anyways, thank you everyone for tuning in and see you next week!

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"In the U.S., we say, “First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage,” but in India, where more than 90 percent of marriages are still arranged by parents or matchmakers, people learn “First comes marriage, then comes love.” Research I’ve been conducting for a decade now confirms that in India and other countries where marriages are arranged many people do indeed build love deliberately over time. Yes, it can really be done.

Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world — a little over 1 percent per year — and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love."

Rosine: Greetings, Dr. Epstein!

Dr. Epstein: Hello!

Rosine: I was reading your article "How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives" and I have found myself quite ambivalent concerning your mentioning of arranged marriages".

Dr. Epstein: Ah, I understand that the topic of arranged marriages can evoke mixed feelings. Could you elaborate on what specifically made you feel ambivalent? I’d love to hear more about your perspective.

Rosine: I'll start with what I have found interesting. I was truly captivated by the study of arranged marriage - it is a fresh and authentic perspective in my opinion, and I think we can indeed learn about the growth of love gradually through commitment, shared experiences, and mutual respect, as you mentioned, from couples whose marriages were arranged even if our marriages weren't arranged.

Dr. Epstein: Thank you! I am enlightened to hear that my insights resonated with you, however, what seems to be the subject of your concern?

Rosine: Well, I have detected some confirmation bias on your part about the low divorce rates in India.

Dr. Epstein: Confirmation Bias? How so?

Rosine: Although, in some cases, as you stated, the love could be twice as strong in arranged marriages, hence preventing the probability of divorce, it seems to me that you only mentioned the study from the 1980s to support your approval of their strategies in marriage.

Dr. Epstein: While I did not intend to do so, would you mind explaining where I was biased?

Rosine: The topic of divorce is one of complexity in India and I fear you barely scratched the surface. Firstly, and to quote BBC Indian Correspondent, Soutik Biswas, "Divorce is often seen as a taboo in many parts of India. The societal pressure to maintain a marriage, regardless of personal happiness, can be immense. Many Indians hold strong religious beliefs that discourage divorce. For example, Hinduism traditionally views marriage as a sacred, lifelong bond" and even if divorce was considered "The legal process for obtaining a divorce in India can be lengthy and complicated, which can deter couples from pursuing it". Additionally, "In many cases, women may be financially dependent on their husbands, making it difficult for them to consider divorce as a viable option." These are all crucial factors that come to play with the divorce percentages in India, and although I assume you didn't intentionally choose to overlook them, I hope that in the future, all relevant factors are considered inorder to avoid any potential confirmation bias and bypassed information.

Dr. Epstein: This has all been very insightful. Thank you for your transparency and I will make sure to keep my eyes on the lookout for any biases and excluded details in my writing in the future!

Rosine: “Thank you for listening to me and not taking offense. I appreciate your openness and understanding."

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"Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained."

Me: Dr. Epstein, you argue copyright of fairytales by Disney creates innocent heroes and unrealistic ideals for courtship. Does Disney need to shoulder all the blame or is he in the mosaic?

Dr. Epstein: Disney’s not completely at fault, but he definitely was one of the contributors. Romantic notions have always existed, but Disney was the one who pumped them up, simplifying the connotations of sophisticated plots and converting the female audience into crazed love-struck mush-heads.

Me: Is it to say that this factors makes it challenging to maintain marriages or relationships in the first place?

Dr. Epstein: Yes. It does. The constant “and they lived ‘happily ever after’ narratives make people have unachievable elevating inclinations. Real relationships demand time, work, and care, all of which are absent in most Disney stories. More often than not discontent follows when the real world does not adhere to the fairy tale.

Me: You say love is not an innate emotion in cultures where marriage is arranged. Time builds up such love. Is this fact a solution to counter the bloodless fantasies?

Dr. Epstein: It could. I am not

advocating for arranged marriages for the West, however the notion of Love slowly coming out through Commitment and Experiences can aid people to lower their expectations resulting in satisfactory relationships instead.

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"Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world — a little over 1 percent per year — and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love. In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages. In the former — and this is consistent with the findings of all relevant Western studies — love started out strong and weakened over time, but in the arranged marriages the opposite occurred. Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong."

---

ME: Welcome back to Zeina's Super Interesting Talk show! Today we're diving into an interesting article- "How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives", and joining us is none other than the author, Dr. Robert Epstein!

DR. EPSTEIN: Thank you for having me! It's great to be here.

ME: Let's skip pleasantries and get straight into it, shall we? Dr. Epstein, one of the more surprising points in your article was about arranged marriages in India. You mentioned that “love in arranged marriages starts low and builds over time, while in love marriages, it starts strong but often weakens.” Can you elaborate on this?

DR. EPSTEIN:  Yes, that’s correct. In a number of cultures, especially South Asian ones, arranged marriages have been the norm, and studies show that they often lead to better long-term outcomes compared to what we call “love marriages,” or marriages that are initiated by romantic attraction. The idea is that in arranged marriages, couples begin with realistic expectations, and over time, they work together to build love, trust, and compatibility.

ME: That’s fascinating. So, in these arranged marriages, love grows stronger over time? Whereas in love marriages, it seems to decline after that initial “honeymoon phase”?

DR. EPSTEIN: Exactly. In the 1980s study I referenced, the love in arranged marriages started relatively low, but after five years, it was about equal to that in love marriages. After ten years, the love in arranged marriages was reported to be twice as strong. The couples in arranged marriages often go into the relationship with a commitment to making it work, rather than expecting everything to be perfect from the start, as love marriages sometimes do.

ME: That’s such a contrast to the way love is portrayed in Western media, isn’t it? Especially with Disney, we see love as this grand, all-consuming passion that should come naturally. How does this affect expectations in the West?

DR. EPSTEIN: It sets people up for disappointment. Disney, and a lot of Western media, promotes the idea that love is effortless and magical, which can lead to unrealistic expectations. When reality sets in and the initial passion fades, couples often think something is wrong with the relationship. In contrast, arranged marriages often start with a sense of duty and practicality, and love becomes something that grows through shared experiences and overcoming challenges together.

ME: So, would you say that focusing on building love over time is a healthier approach than chasing that initial spark?

DR. EPSTEIN: Absolutely. Love that is nurtured and built over time is often much stronger and more resilient. We can learn a lot from cultures that emphasize long-term commitment and realistic expectations, rather than relying on the idea of "love at first sight" or the notion that love should always feel like fireworks.

ME: Such an interesting perspective! Maybe we need to rethink our "happily ever after" narrative. Thank you, Dr. Epstein!

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“Disney’s impact was so great that his movies have virtually obliterated the original messages. Millions of parents now read their children sanitized books that are based on the movie versions, not the original cautionary tales. As my kids would say, how whack is that? Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ.”

Thomas: I have been reading this piece on how Disney has influenced our perception of love and one of the sections really struck me. It illuminates how Disney’s films have erased practically every associated message from the fairy tales of the past. They are presented with these filtered and edited tales that do not help them know how to truly love or be loved in a relationship at a young age.

Dr. Epstein: That’s an important observation. Disney took those messy, and often dark stories and turned it into something colorful and fluffy. The protagonists faced immense struggles, in which the initial narratives provided ample understanding, whereas Disney prefers the notion of love as something akin to fairy dust.

Thomas: I totally agree. It seems like everybody has grown up with the notion that love should be sweet like a fairy tale and it is appalling when it is not so. I wonder how that functions when people become adults and seek their relationships.

Dr Epstein: It can create a lot of havoc in people's lives. That moment of clarity hits you when the fog lifts, you realize you’re no longer dealing with a Disney character who is perfect. This can result in a lot of frustration and disappointment. When they are told they are being brainwashed with these nonsensical fairy tales, most people feel guilty because it is not about childhood fantasies.

Thomas:That is right. It’s not only adults; children are taking these messages in as well. Parents often opt to read them the Disney editions of stories and not the originals losing out on critical morals

Dr. Epstein: Yes, I absolutely agree with you. It's a very bad pattern to have. Children get exposed to the too basic ideas and hence grow disinterested with such topics as love and relationships. They lack specific primary moral lessons included in that prose.

Thomas: Ok. However, let us think in those roles and what can be done in order for it to start to be different in this particular case? How are we going to be able to help children to have a healthy perspective of what love is?

Dr. Epstein: It mostly boils down to having these kinds of discussions. We have to talk to children about love and relationships but also make them understand that those two are quite complex, and real effort is required to build a sound relationship. To this, explaining to them that there is more than one kind of love will help them to re-look at the courtesy stories, flowers don’t cover all that love is about. Love is hard work.

Thomas: That makes quite a number of reasonable approaches. It beats the idea that you have to provide children with all that is needed. That nobody is disappointed as they grow up. I appreciate all the information that you have taken out of your times in this conversation

Dr Epstein: Anytime.

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Selected Fragment: "In the U.S., we say, 'First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage,' but in India, where more than 90 percent of marriages are still arranged by parents or matchmakers, people learn 'First comes marriage, then comes love.' Research I’ve been conducting for a decade now confirms that in India and other countries where marriages are arranged many people do indeed build love deliberately over time."

Me: Dr. Epstein, that was an interesting comparison that you drew between the U.S. and Indian approaches toward love and marriage. It is unimaginable how love can grow afterwards in an arranged setup. Do you think this model can ever be accepted in more individualistic societies such as the U.S.?

Robert Epstein: I just cannot see how arranged marriages would work in individualistic societies like the U.S., where they stress personal choice and romantic love. But, I do feel that there are some simple principles that we can learn from these systems of arranged marriages, like the notion that one can work on building love via effort, sacrifice, and shared vulnerability.

Me: So basically, you're trying to tell us that we don’t need to throw away all of the principles of love but maybe instead balance it with traditional ideas.

Robert Epstein: Exactly. It's nice that love starts with passion, but that wears off. What really makes a relationship last is the conscious decision to invest in it every day. That's something we see very clearly in arranged marriages. And sometimes a gradual growth of love can create a stronger and more resilient bond than the initial rush of infatuation.

Me: That makes so much sense, as if the Western media and things like Disney movies really condition us to feel like there should be this instant "forever love." So, how do you think that influences real life and relationships?

Robert Epstein: The love-at-first-sight storyline is romantic, but it can get people ready for a fall when that initial euphoria wears off. Most people get into relationships, thinking it is going to be some form of fairy tale, real life then sets in. It leads to the "grass is greener" mentality. One is always looking for a new rush rather than nurturing what they already have. Learning to grow love, rather than just expecting it to happen, could greatly change that mindset.

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“Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained.”

Ralph: Wow Robert, I read your article on how Disney affects the romantic aspirations of people and I must admit, I sit on two stools. Is it fair to say that Disney has got most of the blame for these fake relationship aspirations?

Robert Epstein: I think so, yes. American women particularly are influenced by Disney and its siblings in a very distinct manner – they are taught how to dream of romance. Most people are hitched to the fairy tale theme and the idea that love conquers all is embedded in many of them making them enthusiastic to romance as it engages fantasies.

Ralph: That makes sense. But isn’t its also up to individuals as well to aim to self-analyze in relation to these tales? I mean, they are mere stories after all.

Robert Epstein: Yes, but the reality is that a lot of these people were raised on such stories and did no form of critique on them. They believe such a form of love is possible only in movies and take this as the norm which leads to disappointment when the expectations are not met.

Ralph: Are you thinking that the way that Disney portrays love creates almost a “emotional template”, that it is difficult to purge from oneself?

Robert Epstein: Correct. It is true that when little girls watch the princesses on screen, they see these women effortlessly finding their one true love, and that defines what they would eventually demand from their own lives. This leads to embarrassment or anger towards their relationships when they are not as effortless.

Ralph: It's about the creative use of more platforms and delivery to a greater volume. That’s a great point. But do you think that it is possible to find a positive aspect in these stories? They can evoke something warm and positive, can’t they?

Robert Epstein: Absolutely, I am not denying the joy and inspirational aspects of these stories. Rather I am worried about the gap in fantasy and reality. People need to be able to enjoy such feelings but be prepared to accept a more sober view of relationships, which includes large amounts of effort, and often, compromise.

Ralph: So, you mean you are supporting the inclusion of people in the popular culture who are not in the caricature, and who do all the 3 scenarios or stones of the head?

Robert Epstein: Yes! In literature, we want stories that tell more than one-dimensional romances. In what they depict, love is not a point of arrival; it is instead an immersive process that contains development, effort and at times strife.

Ralph: That’s understandable. This may assist individuals in developing more realistic hopes and at the end, better relationships. I appreciate what you are doing. Robert!

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“Disney’s impact was so great that his movies have virtually obliterated the original messages. Millions of parents now read their children sanitized books that are based on the movie versions, not the original cautionary tales.”

Emanuel: “Good afternoon Dr. Epstein”

Dr. Epstein: “Good afternoon”

Emanuel: “Let's get straight into it shall we? I read your article titled “How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives”  and there was one area that caught my attention.

Dr. Epstein: “Oh really? What part?”

Emanuel: “It was the part where you highlighted that Disney censored the meanings of the original fairy tales. Do you think that children should be exposed to the grim fairy tales just as much as they have been exposed to the light-hearted ones that Disney and the media have standardized?”

Dr. Epstein: “Oh yes absolutely. The Disney versions of the fairytales create an illusion about love to children thinking that love is just as easy as on the big screens. This is quite a dangerous notion that Mr Walt disney has given children.”

Emanuel: “Do you think that the original stories are too dark for kids to be exposed to?”

Dr. Epstein: “Oh no not at all, in fact I think that they are just perfect as they are; with no censorship at all. They have a real message to convey that prepares young children to the dangers of the world and harsh realities of love life leading to their relationships only ending in heartbreak and despair.”

Emanuel: “So, correct me if I’m wrong, what I understood is that when children are only exposed to Disney’s versions they are left oblivious about the harsh reality and their relationships are short-lived. But as you are suggesting, when they are exposed to the original versions, they get realistic expectations of love that help them later on in their future relationships.”

Dr. Epstein: “Yes, Disney has made our subconscious get easily tricked by external factors that eventually leads to a fall-out within relationships. But of course exposure to the original tales is not the only way that can increase the success rate of relationships as I mentioned later on in the text.”

Emanuel: “Yes you did. Sadly, thats all the time we have left. Thank you Dr. Epstein for your time and for answering all my questions.

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Text Fragment: “Finally, one morning, we wake up and realize our partner is actually not “the one.” We have made a mistake, misled, perhaps, by false promises, a gorgeous smile or killer abs. All too often, that’s how we mate and split in the U.S.”

Dialogue:

Me: Greetings Dr. Epstein, I appreciate your attendance at my interview. I have read your article, “How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives,” and I like to discuss some points with you on a fragment that stood out to me.

Dr. Epstein: Hello Mr. Hassan, It’s a  pleasure to be here with you.

Me: Before we start I’d like to ask why this specific idea came into your head and why you chose to put it out to the world.

Dr. Epstein: That’s a great question. This topic appears to me as a universal problem where many marriages or relationships fail due to unrealistic expectations between a couple. Furthermore, I found a direct correlation between Walt Disney’s fantasies with expectations for love and I found that he has a big impact on this issue.

Me: I see where you are coming from and your argument is valid to a certain extent. However I disagree with the idea of the text fragment I chose to discuss with you today.

Dr Epstein: Great, I’m all ears.

Me: In the text fragment you summarise the span of a relationship and describe how relationships end. I disagree with the idea that Disney’s fantasies have a direct correlation to ending relationships. I see that it’s human nature for  relationship to end where there could be many causes for this result. I agree that couples could be misled by certain appearances but this is something that happens with no outer influence including Disney’s fantasies. Standards could be set between a couple which they are expected to meet.

Dr. Epstein: I see where you are coming from and your idea is valid. However, Disney plants these expectations from a young age and it carries onto relationships as people grow older.

Me: That could be true to an extent. However, not all people watched Disney’s films at a young age and you can’t speak on behalf of the world when you say that Disney sets certain expectations for a couple. Unless you have evidence that most people who watch Disney at a young age fail in their relationships, you cannot make that statement.

Dr. Epstein: I respect you ideas and I find it interesting that we have different opinions on this topic. I must say you have convinced me to reconsider my thoughts on some points.

Me: It was a pleasure Dr. Epstein perhaps you can dive deeper into this topic and maybe collect more data on it for I’d like to have this discussion with you again in the future.

Dr. Epstein: For sure! It would be interesting to look at this from a statistical point of view.

Me: Thank you for joining me on The Hassan Show Dr. Epstein, it was a pleasure.

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Fragment:

"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

Dialogue:

Angy: Dr. Epstein, when you explained Disney’s view on such characters as Cinderella and similar views on other aspects of love, we’ve been raised with misconceptions of about love and relationships. But, in your opinion, how do these stories contribute to shaping our attitudes towards the nature of relationships, what they should be?

Dr. Epstein: Why do you think Angy, is that so? Cinderella and other fairy tales are usually centered round the idea of love being something miraculous that happens instantly. The prince comes and picks up Cinderella and they live ever after. Such a story give rise to the misconception that love should not involve any hard work and that there is always one perfect person ‘the one’ who can make everything right. It creates an unrealistic expectation that people have once they find that individual. Everything will just work out without them doing anything.

Angy: That definitely beats any romance, I guess. I can see how that sets us up for disappointment. Real couples do not always think deep waters are behind or expect a prince to come and make everything ok.

Dr. Epstein: Exactly. However true relationships are simple or free of problems is not very easy. For relationships to be healthy in the long term, active participation, effective and healthy communication, and compromises over various issues have to be implemented routinely. When people subscribe to the Cinderella ideal, they risk telling themselves that their own relationships are disappointing because they don’t live up to that fantasy. They might feel they have the wrong person or that love is no more, but rather they are going through the routine frustrations that accompany a relationship.

Angy: Romance is all fine, but we shall not be looking at it as some fairy-tale, and it should be partnership building instead.

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"In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages. In the former — and this is consistent with the findings of all relevant Western studies — love started out strong and weakened over time, but in the arranged marriages the opposite occurred. Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong."

Zoe: Dr Epstein, I'd like to ask you a few questions in regards to your article "How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives". Specifically speaking, your take on the success of arranged marriages.

Dr Epstein: Of course. I would be glad to shed light on such a pressing psychological phenomenon.

Zoe: In reading your article, I was especially intrigued by your support of arranged marriages as this isn't something you usually see in the western world. Do you think the low divorce rate could be due to gender inequality, economic struggle, or family pressure?

Dr Epstein: I've heard that argument before and while i sympathize with the idea that staying married is not always voluntary, we aren't looking at plain statistics. These studies were done thoroughly and the opinions of the couples mattered more than any rate or percentage.

Zoe: Yes i see your point, we cant assume all cases are the same. My second question for you is a little different. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Netflix series "Married At First Sight", but the general idea is that experts match two people up based on pure character compatibility, with the hope of proving that love con indeed be learnt and created over time after meeting for the first time and their own wedding! How do you feel about this approach to marriage? Is it similar to the arranged marriages you feel so strongly about?

Dr Epstein: I've heard of the show briefly, but no deeper than that. From what you're telling me it sounds like a modern day, westernized, arranged marriage! I do still believe that love is a thing to be learnt, created, and grown. With time and a strong foundation love can be created between any two people, that's what happens platonically too. This series sounds like an interesting social experiment which tests the idea of a modern marriage, I applaud the concept.

Zoe: I had a feeling you would like the idea, even though it isn't executed as traditionally as your normal examples. Thank you very much for your time, I actually believe your response made me see the construct of arranged marriages in a very different light.

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“Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ.”

Dialogue

Me: Hi Dr. Epstein. I read your article and found your comments concerning Disney’s movies to be quite intriguing. I do have some points I would like to discuss with you.

Dr. Epstein: Hello Malak. Let’s start talking about my statements, then. Where would you like to start.

Me: I have to say, I disagree with your points about Disney movies causing that much of an effect on people’s hopes and expectations for love. Of course, women want their fairytale knight in shining armor but it doesn’t get to the extent of needing therapy.

Dr. Epstein: I hear what you are saying, nevertheless, those fairy stories foster irrational expectations. They give the impression that love is simple, but it's not.

Me: But don’t you think we should have some expectations to push us to find the right person? People should have some standards for who they want to spend the rest of their lives with. Without standards, a relationship is quickly broken.

Dr. Epstein: While expectations are necessary, they result in disappointment if a persons standards are too far from reality. Individuals frequently believe they should meet the right person and live happily ever after, but that is just not how relationships work.

Me: Shouldn’t we embrace the hope and vision of what love looks like in fairy tales, though? We should, of course, take the thought with a grain of salt, but we can also enjoy the movies and temporarily be taken out of our own reality.

Dr. Epstein: There are many people that take fairytales literally. They do not realize that love isn’t always a fairytale. There can be rough patches in a relationship.

Me: I see your point. Some people do take fairytales as they are. But it’s all about balancing the fairytale from reality. People can enjoy a movie without taking it too literally.

Dr. Epstein: That may be true, I see what you are saying.

Me: It was nice discussing this with you. Thank you for your time.

Dr. Epstein: No problem. If you have any other questions, I’m here to help.

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"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles, or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

Me: Good afternoon, Dr. Epstein, and thank you for joining me in discussing your article, “How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives.”

Dr. Epstein: It’s a pleasure to be here with you, Karim.

Me: I would like to begin by asking you about your personal opinion about how Disney has impacted love relationships.

Dr. Epstein: I personally believe Walt Disney’s tales have misguided the previous generation and will misguide future generations when it comes to relationships. Not all relationships end in “happy ever after,” but many relationships end in sadness and pain.

Me: I understand your point, but don’t you think these fairy tales portray a different purpose, especially for kids. In my personal opinion, these tales provide children with hope and joy. The main goal of Disney’s tales was never about setting up expectations for adult relationships.

Dr. Epstein: Yes, but don’t you think these fairy tales will lead children to develop a subconscious belief that love is effortless. Leading them to undermine the responsibility that comes with being in a relationship.

Me: As we grow, we learn to understand the difference between reality and fantasy. Enjoying fairy tales doesn’t mean we have to project what we learn into reality.

Dr.Epstein: I agree, however, Disney’s stories still manage to influence different children’s opinions on romance. It’s been a huge part of western culture for decades.

Me: That’s a fair argument yet, Disney wasn’t the person who sparked these ideas. People have been writing about different romantic ideas for centuries. Many famous writers include Shakespeare, or Lucy Walker.  Disney is just more famous than the rest.

Dr. Epstein: Yes, but Disney’s older films definitely pushed these ideas, such as Cinderella or sleeping beauty.

Me: That’s a very valid point; however, recently Disney stories have evolved, for a more “modern” perspective. This is seen in films such as Moana and Frozen. They no longer focus on only finding the “one true love.”. They focus on telling stories regarding independence and self-discovery.

Dr Epstein: I agree.

Me: One last question, have your views on Walt Disney’s fantasies changed since then, and if so how.

Dr Epstein: Yes, my view on Walt Disney’s fantasies has changed after they began to alter the messages being portrayed in their stories. I believe Disney’s stories aren’t as damaging as they used to be. But my views on the older stories haven’t changed.

Me: Thank you for attending.

Dr: Esptein: my pleasure

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My message was that women had made great strides in realms such as education and work, but in the most important part of their lives — relationships — many were still entirely helpless, leaving everything to chance. The Fates will, or will not, bring Mr. Right to a woman’s doorstep, and she and her mate will, or will not, live happily ever after. Que sera, sera. I realize many people think this model is romantic, but to me it just sounds depressing.

~Dialogue~

Qamar: Good evening to our local viewers and, good morning to all our lovely viewers watching us from across the globe. Today, we have a very special guest joining us and it's Robert Epstein! Mr. Epstein, kind of you to join us.

Mr. Epstein: Thank you for having me.

Qamar: Mr. Epstein what were your thoughts and feelings on Walt Disney while writing this particular segment?

Mr. Epstein: Well while I would not like to speak ill of the dead, I respectfully think that he has deluded our youth and especially young girls making them believe that they will have their "happy ever after" waiting for them. A batch of girls feel the need to be damsels in distress and it is so overwhelming and draining to us men, while the other half have achieved a sort of hyper-independence in their careers and other aspects of their lives that they neglect the most essential part of their lives: their relationships.

Qamar: Alright first off, why would you suggest that the most important aspect of a woman's life is her relationship? And secondly, why is it that you are not happy with either side of the coin? Whether a woman is too clingy or too assertive why does nothing seem to please you?

Mr. Epstein: Well in regards to the relationships aspect of the question, I am a profound believer that what makes humans special is their ability to create bonds and relationships with others. So, in my eyes it doesn't matter if you are a man or woman, the most foremost part of a human's life is their relationships because without them we wouldn't be alive. And in regards to the second part, I would like to reiterate that I am not sexist but I believe that all things in life require balance.

Qamar: While I may see where you are coming from, I believe that you are trying to overshadow some of your internal thoughts with this sort of cover of overgeneralization. But moving on to the next question: How are you so sure that Disney is the source of all this corruptness you speak of? There is always a possibility that perhaps another tv show caused this, or maybe they learned it from observed their family and the way things run?

Mr. Epstein: Once again I feel like the majority of little girls are more likely to be exposed to the works of Disney than they are to be exposed to a certain array of films and cinema, and so that is why I dedicated this essay sharing my thoughts on how I analyze the potential sabotage Walt Disney has implemented on our young ladies.

Qamar: Well that is a very enlightening point of view, I may not have agreed with everything you said, however I enjoyed conversing with you. And the very reason I opened this tv show was to explore different ways of thinking.

Mr. Epstein: I am glad you to have had this conversation with you, it has made me more aware of the way I phrase things and the misconception it may lead to.

Qamar: Well thank you for taking the time and being with us dear viewer, please stick with us till the end of this short ad break where we will be interviewing BEYONCEEEEE!

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“Today, we are bombarded daily by unrealistic messages about love and marriage — messages that make us think about leaving a relationship the moment our romantic expectations are dashed.”

Gabriel: Good afternoon, Dr. Epstein. How are you today?

Dr. Epstein: Good afternoon, Gabriel. I’m doing well, thank you. What about you?

Gabriel: I’m good. I’ve been thinking about a line from your text where you mention, “Today, we are bombarded daily by unrealistic messages about love and marriage — messages that make us think about leaving a relationship the moment our romantic expectations are dashed.” Why do you think people tend to give up on relationships so quickly when things don’t align with those romantic expectations?

Dr. Epstein: That’s a great question, Gabriel. I believe a lot of it comes from a culture of instant gratification and the unrealistic expectations of love we see everywhere like social media and movies. People are conditioned to expect perfection in their partners and relationships, and when those expectations aren’t met, they feel like something is fundamentally wrong.

Gabriel: That makes sense. So, what can we do to help people adjust their expectations and stop seeing every rough patch as a reason to leave?

Dr. Epstein: I think the key is education and having a mindset of growth in relationships. It’s about teaching people that love evolves over time and requires effort and compromise. Relationships are built on shared experiences, vulnerability, and commitment. By shifting the narrative from “find the perfect partner” to “build a strong relationship,” we can help people create lasting connections.

Gabriel: That’s really insightful. Changing the narrative could definitely make a difference. Thank you for your thoughts, Dr. Epstein.

Dr. Epstein: You’re welcome, Gabriel. I’m glad you’re thinking critically about these issues. It’s important work.

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"Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained."

Me: Good morning Dr. Epstein. Thank you for joining me today . I want to ask you some questions, if I can have some answers.

Dr. Epstein: Hello Oussama, Thank you for having me today. I'm excited to listen and answer your questions.

Me: first of all, can you please give an example of how Disney "contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world," since you dropped the statement with no example.

Dr. Epstein: That's right, I didn't mention any examples because there is a lot of examples to mention. Like How about the way Beauty and the Beast portrays domestic violence and the idea that if you love someone harder they will stop treating you badly to you and become this new

person.

me: So no real life examples?

Dr. Epstein: Actually nowadays the unrealistic expectations that Disney movies portrays is actually leading to divorcees, you can see the statistics of divorcees in the west is reaching 50%.

Me: I see your point. another question, why did you specify women in your paragraph? is the effect on women greater than men?

Dr. Epstein: Yes, actually because women are emotional creatures more than men, they tend to be more emotionally attached to the plot of a story or the characters. That well lead to women be the victims of the Disney movies.

me: Last question please, how are romantic relationships maintained?

Dr. Epstein: That's a great question! we have to teach our children that any relationship - especially romantic - are first based on love, then with time and with life's hard ship and problems, relationships are based on responsibility. so it depends on how responsible the person is. That's why Disney ruins relationships, by removing the aspect of responsibility from the relationship.

Me: Thank you for your time Dr. Epstein.

Dr. Epstein: Thank you for having me!!

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"In the U.S., we say, “First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage,” but in India, where more than 90 percent of marriages are still arranged by parents or matchmakers, people learn “First comes marriage, then comes love.” Research I’ve been conducting for a decade now confirms that in India and other countries where marriages are arranged many people do indeed build love deliberately over time. Yes, it can really be done."

Nikita: Good evening, Dr. Epstein. Thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Epstein: Good evening, Nikita. Thanks for having me. What would you like to discuss?

Nikita: I was reading your article "How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives," and I found something really interesting. You talked about how, in the U.S., people say "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage." But in India, where a lot of marriages are still arranged by parents, people think "first comes marriage, then comes love." It made me wonder whether people can really build love after getting married?

Dr. Epstein: Yes, they can. I’ve been studying this for a long time, and my research shows that in places like India, where many marriages are arranged, people do often grow to love each other. It might be different from the romantic love we usually think about, but it doesn’t make it any less real. It grows through time, effort and learning to care for one another.

Nikita: That’s so different from what we see in movies. How do those couples start? It must be strange at first, without the romance or passion people usually expect.

Dr. Epstein: It is different, yes. But those couples usually start with a lot of trust and responsibility. They know that they need to build a life together, so they focus on creating respect and understanding first. Over time, through shared experiences and small acts of kindness, love starts to grow.

Nikita: It sounds like it takes a lot of patience and work. But maybe that kind of love is stronger because you’re building it together?

Dr. Epstein: Exactly. When love is built slowly, it has strong roots. There’s a lot of acceptance and support that grows along with it. It’s about sticking together through good and bad times, and that can create a stronger bond.

Nikita: That makes sense. But in Western culture, we’re often told that love should be easy. If you have to work at it, some people think it means the relationship isn’t right.

Dr. Epstein: Yes, that’s a big misconception. The idea that love should just "happen" or stay effortless is unrealistic. Real love takes work. It’s not always exciting or perfect, but putting in the effort makes it meaningful. It’s like anything worthwhile in life - you have to put in the time and energy. And when both people do that, it can feel even more special.

Nikita: So, it’s more about seeing love as something that grows through shared effort, instead of waiting for everything to just fall into place?

Dr. Epstein: Exactly.

Nikita: I like that perspective. It makes love feel more real, something we create together instead of just waiting for.

Dr. Epstein: I’m glad it helps. Love is not about being perfect all the time. It’s about growing, learning, and willing to be there for each other, no matter what. And when you approach it that way, you can find deep happiness.

Nikita: That’s really reassuring, actually.

Dr. Epstein: Absolutely. Relationships are a journey, and every journey has its ups and downs.

Nikita: Thank you, Dr. Epstein. I think this conversation will really help me look at relationships in a new way.

Dr. Epstein: You’re very welcome, Nikita. Just remember, love is a process you build, not something you find all ready to go.

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Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained.

Dialogue:

Mario: I recently read your piece regarding Disney and its effects on marriage. Do you genuinely believe that Disney is a part of broken hearts?

Dr. Epstein: While it's not the only factor, it does contribute significantly. The romanticized portrayal of love in fairy tales might lead to inflated expectations.

Mario: But isn't that merely a narrative device? Fairy tales are not meant to be relationship manuals; rather, they should be enchanting and enjoyable.

Dr. Epstein: That's true, but these tales can serve as a model of what love looks like for a lot of people, particularly young girls. They might anticipate their own relationships to be just as magical and effortless.

Mario: I understand it, but shouldn't people be able to tell the difference between fact and fiction? In relationships, shouldn't we put greater emphasis on taking personal responsibility?

Dr. Epstein: Individual accountability is crucial, without a doubt. However, it is impossible to undervalue the power of the media. Someone who is raised with the idea that love should be easy may not be ready for the difficulties that come with being in a committed relationship.

Mario: You make a valid point, I see. However, is it not possible to counter that for some people these fairy tales are just that—stories? Life isn't a movie, they realize.

Dr. Epstein: A few do, indeed. However, these tales may serve to promote unhealthy beliefs for others, particularly for individuals who may not have had positive relationship role models. Maybe they won't notice the distinction until it's too late.

Mario: What then is the solution? Should Disney movies be prohibited or something?

Dr. Epstein: Not at all. It has to do with equilibrium. It might be beneficial to promote debates and critical thinking around these tales. The distinction between relationship fantasy and reality needs to be taught.

Mario: That's logical. Perhaps if more stories emphasized the complexity of love, those expectations might be adjusted.

Dr. Epstein: That's right. Honoring the complexity of relationships can have the same impact as believing in fairy tales. It all comes down to developing a more grounded conception of love.

Mario: That's nice. A good balance between reality and magic could be quite beneficial.

Dr. Epstein: That's right. It all comes down to cultivating an attitude that recognizes the difficulties as well as the beauty of love.

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How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Life angelina saliba

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-Text Fragment:

"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

-Dialogue:

Alex: Dr. Epstein, let me say this. This part resonated deeply with me. Because to the effect that you make, I mean, that real love concerns itself with real people and the prospects of bruised toes and not a knight on horseback charging in and saviours and riding off to some happily ever after - is something why we all ‘get’ it, but for some reason still wish it, don’t we? What do you think is the reason why these concepts are strong and resilient, even when we know them to be false?

Epstein: I’m glad you brought that up - it’s actually quite a common walk for practitioners to grapple with. The thing of it is, these Disney stories, for many of us, were some of the first stories we were told as children so they somehow became if you will, the factory setting to which accounts of love and relationships would be drawn from. Realising that the ideal images of real relationships is not the same, is one thing logically, but emotionally, those early assumptions have to be hard-wired. It is almost as if such fairy stories were strewn with ideological wires of perfectionism in the society, which for some of us is quite difficult to undo.

Alex: Yes, as in, what’s worse, instead of increased realism it increased the euphoric fantasy that it’s going to be like in the movies. In other words, how do we begin to change that way of thinking?

Epstein: That is the central problem, of course. I suppose it really is about making a deliberate effort to accept orthopedicism – both in the media we consume and in the way we relate to people. There is the need to demystify the idea that real relationships are far much work. They have their ups and downs, they are not always pure sunshine, and they do require effort. It is possible to address this in therapy, however, that does sharing of these experiences with others by stating the realistic aspect of relationships as opposed to painting them in the most favorable conditions.

Alex: That makes so much sense. I think it is not only about adjusting somebody’s expectations on the personal level but also at the cultural level, isn’t it actually?

Epstein: Indeed. There is as much of a personal change as there is a societal one. When we learn to value resilience, give-and-take, and letting go of control in relationships, we become able to leave behind those “and they lived happily ever after” fantasies. It is about understanding that love does not equate to perfection. It is about two flawed individuals willing to choose each other, difficult as it is every single day. And I think there is something that feels a lot greater and meaningful in that kind of love.

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"Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world — a little over 1 percent per year — and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love. In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages. In the former — and this is consistent with the findings of all relevant Western studies — love started out strong and weakened over time, but in the arranged marriages the opposite occurred. Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong."

Em: Dr. Epstein, I read your article, particularly the part where you discuss arranged marriages in India. You mention that they often have better outcomes than love marriages, citing studies that show love in arranged marriages grows over time. However, I noticed that you don’t provide detailed statistical evidence. Wouldn't that weaken your claim?

Epstein: Well, Em, the research I referenced shows a consistent trend—love tends to diminish in love marriages and strengthens in arranged marriages over time. I didn’t delve into every specific study, but the pattern remains clear.

Em: I understand that studies suggest this trend, but isn’t it crucial to consider the role of cultural factors in this context? In India, arranged marriages often succeed not purely because love grows naturally but because of the intervention of a matchmaker, known as a nayan. The nayan doesn’t leave things to chance—they analyse birth stars, education, social standing, and personal compatibility. Doesn't that make it more of a calculated arrangement than a pure comparison of love dynamics?

Epstein: You’re right that nayans play a significant role in ensuring compatibility. But if marriages are more successful, regardless of how they begin, doesn't that prove my point—that love isn’t the magical, immediate connection we see in Disney movies?

Em: I see where you’re coming from, but I think the context is crucial here. In India, marriage is often seen as a familial and social contract, not just a personal one. Divorce is also highly stigmatized, which influences the low divorce rates you mentioned. The external pressure to stay in a marriage might lead couples to work on their relationships differently than they would in countries where divorce is more socially acceptable.

Epstein: That’s fair, but wouldn’t the fact that divorce rates are starting to rise in India now indicate that the romanticized idea of “love marriages” is influencing younger generations?

Em: Possibly, but I’d argue that it's more about the diminishing taboo around divorce, allowing people to leave unhappy marriages rather than just romantic notions affecting their decisions. Also, love isn’t necessarily the problem—it’s the unrealistic expectations set by media, particularly the idea that love at first sight is real, as perpetuated by Disney fairytales. In reality, love is complex, and relationships require work, whether they’re arranged or sparked by initial attraction.

Epstein: I agree—love isn’t the instant, perfect connection that Disney suggests. But doesn’t the fact that arranged marriages foster stronger love over time prove that love grows through commitment and shared experiences, not some instantaneous magic?

Em: Commitment definitely plays a role, but we can't forget that in arranged marriages, compatibility is ensured upfront by third parties like nayans, which takes out much of the guesswork. It’s not love growing on its own—it’s a relationship set up to work from the start. That’s not something we can apply universally to love marriages.

Epstein: So you’re saying the success of arranged marriages is more about structure than love itself?

Em: Exactly! And while I agree that Disney distorts the idea of love, reducing it to magic moments, I think we need to look beyond the comparison of arranged and love marriages and instead focus on realistic expectations for any relationship. People need to understand that love, no matter how it starts, evolves through time and effort.

Epstein: So where does that leave Disney’s influence? Are you saying it’s harmful overall?

Em: Definitely not. Well, not entirely. Yes, Disney’s portrayal of fairytale love sets unrealistic standards for some, but at the end of the day, there's something beautiful about it. For many people, those stories are an escape—a way to remind ourselves of what love can look like in its idealized form. It may not resemble real life, but it doesn't limit its possibility of happening, and it certainly doesn’t mean the beauty of those stories should be dismissed. Sometimes, we need that reminder of the magical possibilities love can bring, even if reality is more complex.

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Disney’s impact was so great that his movies have virtually obliterated the original messages. Millions of parents now read their children sanitized books that are based on the movie versions, not the original cautionary tales. As my kids would say, how whack is that?

Marielle: Hey Robert, don’t you think Disney messed up how we think about love? They made those fairy tales seem super perfect, so now we think that’s how love should be. But that’s not how it really is in real life!

Robert Epstein: Totally! The original stories were way deeper and showed the real stuff. They included the hard parts too. But Disney turned everything into happy endings and “true love,” which just isn’t how relationships work.

Marielle: Exactly! Now we grow up thinking love is supposed to be like that. Then when real life isn’t like the movies, we feel like something’s wrong with us or with our partner.

Robert Epstein: Right? That’s the problem! The old fairy tales had real lessons about how tough love can be. But now, we miss out on that. Love isn’t always easy or perfect. It can get really messy. When things go wrong, it’s normal to start overthinking and doubting everything. But real love is about sticking together, even when it gets tough.

Marielle: So, when things aren’t going well, people start to think they picked the wrong person?

Robert Epstein: Exactly! We hear all this stuff about how love should be easy. So when it isn’t, people think they made a mistake. But relationships take time and effort, and they won’t ever be perfect. Having problems doesn’t mean the person is wrong for you.

Marielle: That’s so true! We hear “love takes effort” all the time, but we still expect it to be like in fairy tales.

Robert Epstein: Yeah, that’s the Disney effect! People think there’s a magical person out there who will make everything perfect. But that’s not how it works. Real love needs a lot of give and take, plus understanding.

Marielle: When we see that our partner isn’t perfect, we might think we made a bad choice, right?

Robert Epstein: Exactly! But nobody’s perfect. The idea of finding someone with no issues is just unrealistic. Real relationships are about going through everything together, both good and bad.

Marielle: Right! Real love isn’t a fairy tale. It takes work and won’t always feel exciting. But that’s okay, because true love is about being there for each other even when it’s hard.

Robert Epstein: Yes! The real magic isn’t in perfection. It’s in being there for each other when things get tough and finding happiness in the messy moments.

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“Disney’s impact was so great that his movies have virtually obliterated the original messages”.

Nikolas: This is a very interesting title…

Dr Epstein: Thank you Nikolas!

Nikolas: “Interesting” in this case doesn’t bare a positive meaning.

Dr Epstein: Really? Why so?

Nikolas: Well, you can understand many things about a man by the things he does, says, or in your case, writes.

Dr Epstein: What do you mean?

Nikolas: Have you ever heard of extreme ownership?

Dr Epstein: No, what is this?

Nikolas: It means being accountable for your current situation in life, along with embracing difficulties as challenges that will transform you to somebody better. In this case it is your own responsibility to distinguish between fairy tales and real life. And no, you can’t blame Disney movies for having unrealistic expectations.

Dr. Epstein: You have a good point, Nikolas. Perhaps the issue isn't Disney itself, but rather how we, as a society, fail to teach that these stories are just that—stories.

Nikolas: So, now it’s the society’s fault. "You can understand many things about a man by the things he does, says, or in your case, writes." --> Confirmed ✅

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"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

Tarek: Dr. Epstein, your comment about the role played by Disney in fostering romantic notions caught my attention. You claim that one of the major problems with Disney films is that it is filled with what American kids believe to be love. Do you really think the media we consume can be so influential?

Robert Epstein: Without any doubt, Tarek. Stories, and especially the very first ones we hear, also define our hopes and anticipations. Grown up with by American kids particularly, the Disney notion of love, full of idealistic moments and plenty of happy endings, serves to promote the false concept of love. And this can have practical consequences. Idealistic visions are crushed and disappointed because people have been taught to pursue these perfectionist ideals even though they are impossible to attain within the real lives.

Tarek: Yes, but do you think it’s fair to hold Disney responsible for the high rate of broken marriages? To me it sounds quite harsh to impose it upon couple of films.

Robert Epstein: You are right, Tarek. It is not only about Disney. There was a cultural shift, and he was a player in it. Movies and even songs preach the gospel that romance and love could be perfect, and that there is no fuss or mess in love. This creates a collective mindset and prepares us to fail in the relationships. When relationships come to normal and expected bumps and bruises, we assume something is wrong which is contrary to the truth that love is built.

Tarek: Your research mentions also the arranged marriages and how the marriage turns tender over the years. Most people in the West would find that rather strange. What do you think contributes to the success of those marriages?

Robert Epstein: One reason is the emphasis on commitment and shared purpose from the beginning. In the case of arranged marriages, bringing love into the picture is more of the nurturing aspect over time than a sudden or instantaneous affection display. It is a more realistic view which promotes the desire to invest in the relationship for a long period of time. In most cases, love is built solidly on the admiration and loyalty spouses eeach achieve and reach for in each other as time goes by.

Tarek: So, what you assert is that there is no place for the classical myth of the love at the first sight?

Robert Epstein: Onto it, I would not say we should completely abandon, but moderate it with a touch of reality. The fantasy love that the individual very much craves from the outset which consists of emotions also is not bad but it is incomplete in its sense if in our analysis we do not consider the fleeting nature of those initial feelings. What is of relevance is how we bring things to scene after that, with commitment, with sacrifice and with thought.

Tarek: What is surprising is that you think love is a process that can be pacifically “built” over the years. In the popular culture it is heard all to the contrary. How can we effectively confront such idealistic stories?

Robert Epstein: I completely agree with you Tarek. We definitely need a new narrative. We need love stories that do not shy away from the hard work of relationships, or their complications, but rather celebrate them both the high and the low. And even more importantly still; we must instill in people that love is not only an emotion, but it is also a choice and a commitment. Where a lady is not running into the sunset with a man, but instead, they help each other continue to grow by working through actual problems with one another, i.e., there are sparkly fairy tales in their life.

Tarek: I think that is the kind of story that all of us might need right now. Thank you for the insight into this issue, Dr. Epstein.

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" Our beliefs about relationships hobble us with expectations that are almost certain to be violated — the kiss of death for romantic relationships. A couple of years into a marriage, studies confirm that, on average, our love is about half as strong and we’re having sex half as often. Our partner doesn’t look or smell or behave anything like he or she did when we were dating. This person has changed, or so it seems."

Me: Hello Dr.Epstein, hope you are doing well. Thank you for joining me in this conversation

Dr. Epstein: Hello to you too, thank you for having me

Me: Dr. Epstein, I have some questions I would like to hear from you about the article " How Walt Disney ruined our love lives" This specific quote I picked out, was quite thought-provoking. When you mentioned "our beliefs about relationships hobble us with expectations that are almost certain to be violated." Can you expand on your beliefs? Elaborate please about how these expectations are formed.

Dr. Epstein: Absolutely! Many of us grow up with fairy tales and romantic movies that set unrealistic standards for love. We enter relationships with these idealized ideas, thinking everything will be perfect like fairy tales would demonstrate it to us. But as time goes on, reality hits, and we often find ourselves disappointed about how complicated and hard relationships truly are and how much forgiveness, arguments and compromises must be made. It is not all about falling in love and staying in the honeymoon phase for the rest of your life. Often people don't tend to see this, as they are stuck with the belief that all relationships should meet expectations they have seen in fairy tales. This leads to many young teenagers being quick to end their relationships once reality sets in.

Me: You also noted that "a couple of years into a marriage, studies confirm that, on average, our love is about half as strong." What do you think contributes to this decline?

Dr. Epstein: Here, when I say this I mean that a lot of different combinations of factors wear off the spark of a relationship. For example, As we go through different stages like starting a career or having kids our priorities often shift which creates a lot of challenges in the long-lasting relationship.

Me: Okay go on.

Dr. Epstein: The stress life is going to cause you through your days on earth is going to create new tensions with your partner that no one would see coming. Stress like financial problems or work pressure could make it hard for the couple to connect as they did at first. People also tend to change over time as all of our interests and values can change, and if we don’t grow together, it can lead to distance.

Me: So what do you think couples should do to overcome those issues?

Dr. Epstein: Open communication is key. Couples should set realistic expectations and be willing to work on their relationship actively. Understanding that love is not just a feeling but a commitment can help navigate the ups and downs.

Me: Thank you for debriefing what meant in the quote I picked out, it makes more sense now and I hope people try and understand that love on Disney is not the same love expected in real life. Thank you for making this clear and pointing it out.

Dr. Epstein: My pleasure and your welcome!

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Quote:

“Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world — a little over 1 percent per year — and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love. In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages. In the former — and this is consistent with the findings of all relevant Western studies — love started out strong and weakened over time, but in the arranged marriages the opposite occurred. Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong.”

Me:

Hello Dr. Epstein, I hope you’re well. Thank you for meeting with me today to discuss your article “How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives.”

Dr. Epstein:

Hello Karim, my pleasure.

Me:

Before discussing the quote, I’d like to ask why you chose such a title. It only reflects the first page and doesn’t reflect the rest of the article. I was surprised when you shifted from Disney examples to discussing the success of arranged marriages.

Dr. Epstein:

What an interesting observation. When writing the article, I wanted to offer a fresh perspective on arranged marriages, which are often viewed negatively. I didn’t want it to seem like another statistics-based article. Tell me, did it work for you?

Me:

It did, but not in the way I think you intended. I felt annoyed, as you used childhood stories that I grew up watching and reading to support your point of view, which felt incomplete. Seeing you critique these stories felt like a personal attack and then you abruptly change the subject. I couldn’t understand your entire perspective about Disney's stories, as it was cut short when you did a 180 and began talking about arranged marriages. This left me with a negative impression, even though some of your points were valid on the second page, as I was still thinking about the points you made in the first, leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Dr. Epstein:

I understand. I mentioned in the first page that I’m exaggerating these points. I used the Disney example to draw attention and challenge readers’ childhood memories by showing how they’re watered-down versions of the original, showcasing and advertising this “love” that is so easy to get and maintain. I wanted to show the readers the fairy tales they are so used to in comparison with real life.

Me:

I see. I don’t want to take too much of your time, so let’s start talking about the quote. So, the quote I have here suggests that arranged marriages in India and other parts outside the Western hemisphere lead to stronger love over time. However, I find it confusing, as I feel there is more to the story. India is known for having high rates of domestic abuse around 30% of all married women between the ages of 18 and 49 have experienced domestic violence or abuse, which may lead to women being too scared to leave their marriages. Don’t you think the low divorce rates in arranged marriages may be hiding a major issue?

Dr. Epstein:

That is a very good point, Karim. It is true that cultural pressures can make it difficult for people, especially women, to leave abusive relationships. The stigma around divorced women, where they are viewed as unwanted, as if they failed, could also be a reason and could definitely play a role in the low rates.

Me:

Exactly! Then why did you not mention this in your article?

Dr. Epstein:

Karim, your points are definitely true and should be focused on, but the point of my article is to discuss the psychology of a relationship depending on how it starts. How a relationship starts and grows or diminishes as time passes on. That is why I did not mention these external factors in my article.

Me:

I see. But I still think that is leaving a key part of the picture. If people cannot leave their relationship because they are too scared of how society might look at them, or because of their financial dependence on each other, then maybe the love is not actually “growing.” You are taking a few people’s experiences and using them to represent an entire concept, arranged marriage.

Dr. Epstein:

You are right, external pressures exist, as we talked about, and they should not be ignored. But I still think you are missing the point of the article. The reason for writing my article was to show how arranged marriages often start with zero initial attraction. Couples have to build their relationship together, which can lead to a deeper sense of love over time and greater respect for each other. This is in contrast to the “love at first sight” type of relationships that the West is obsessed with where a relationship often starts based on the physical characteristics of each other, based on this fake shell they have built for themselves.

Me:

I see what you mean, and from that point of view, I think you are definitely right. In an age where looks are often what initiate a relationship, it does make sense for there to be a greater increase in divorce rates.

Dr. Epstein:

Yes, exactly my point. I am not saying that arranged marriages are perfect, but in lots of them, the love that develops as a result is often much stronger and more meaningful.

Me:

Thank you so much Dr. Epstein.

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"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

Me:　Good Afternoon Dr. Epstein, thank you for joining me today. I have prepared a few questions i want to ask you.

Dr. Epstein:　Good Afternoon Luna, lets get started ask whatever you want.

Me：First up, i wanted to ask you for your reasons as to why you believe Disney's light-hearted take on those tales but with is harmful for kids, especially since it is all purely for entertainment purposes.

Dr. Epstein: In my opinion, Disney taking those tragic tales with really dark truths behind them and turning them into cute movies for kids is morally wrong especially since they wash out the messages behind those tales.

Me: You have some really good points Dr. Epstein, however not all of Disney's movies are based on tales of that kind. For example the movie "The Princess And The Frog" delivers a beautiful message, of how true love can come to anybody regardless of their physical appearance, while also serving as entertainment.

Dr. Epstein: While that may be true, the way Disney is filling their heads with lies about love and making everything seem effortless will only result in them having to have a tragic awakening to the actual reality of the world since not everything is rainbows and knights in shining armor.

Me: It is no secret that the world isn't exactly what's depicted in Disney movies, however I wanted to ask you of where you draw the line as I do not believe you have any problems with other over-exaggerated romance movies such as "The Notebook" for example. What's the difference between Disney movies and any other romance movie?

Dr. Epstein: Romance movies are often made with a targeted audience in mind which is mostly teenage or young adult women, and at that point in life they will not become fully invested in the lies portrayed in those movies since they are maturer. However, Disney movies are targeted at kids who are more prone to believe whatever they see in the media they consume.

Me: But don't you think it is unfair to portray Disney as the bad guy simply for delivering pieces of fiction to kids? Like for example, as kids, the majority of us used to fully believe in Santa and the tooth fairy, and while it might have been a sad day or ,a sad week even, when we found out the truth no long term damage was done to anyone and we still carry on to pass on those beliefs we had as kids to our own children.

Dr. Epstein: I agree that there are some harmless lies that are normal for children to believe in, however, Disney pushes false narratives into kids heads by portraying them as "true love", like for example in the movie "Tangled", Rapunzel fell in love and got married to the thief that broke into her castle. in the case of an intruder don't you think kids will have the wrong idea of what to do due to what Disney stuffed inside their heads?

Me: That would be a very scary situation to be put in but I believe its the duty of parents to inform their kids and teach them what to do in the case of an emergency such as an intruder in the house. As well as keeping their children in touch with reality and not to get too sucked in to what they watch. So I do believe instead of standing fully against or with Disney movies, there is a common ground of supervising what your kids are consuming and keeping them informed and safe.

Dr. Epstein: You made some really good points Luna and this was a very interesting conversation. I would like to thank you again for having me come on here to discuss what I've written.

Me: It was certainly my pleasure to have you here and I would like to say I really enjoyed this conversation with you.

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"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

Abdelrahman: Good morning Dr. Epstein, thank you for joining us on this pleasant day.

Dr. Epstein: Good morning Abdelrahman, thank you for having me.

Abdelrahman: Dr. Epstein in this excerpt you claim that Disney has shaped unrealistic expectations on how relationships should be, especially when mentioning the "knights in shining armor" and "gleaming carriages". It sounds like you are saying that people shouldn't even imagine things like this, but what's wrong with people thinking that of relationships? Even if its just a chapter of the relationship? Or even just for a short period of time?

Dr. Epstein: Listen, I know where you're coming from but people tend to think the whole relationship is sunshine and rainbows and they also tend to forget that once you are in a relationship there are a lot of sacrifices you have to make. People most of the time set super high standards and expect the other partner to live up to that expectation which is not very realistic.

Abdelrahman: I get you but isn't everyone free to think and do whatever they want?

Dr. Epstein: Yes of course, but when you set your expectations so high, if the outcome is even a little lower than what you expected you will get disappointed. You know i heard this quote once and i live by it, it goes like "Expect disappointment so when you get disappointed you never actually get disappointed."

Abdelrahman: Wow that is a pretty good quote, i just have one more point to make. For example in "Tangled" Rapunzel had a terrible life and Flynn Rider who she loved had an amazing life and the only way for Rapunzel's life to get better was going to Flynn which takes sacrifices though.

Dr. Epstein: So what is your point?

Abdelrahman: There was a deal being made for Rapunzel to escape she did not really like Flynn it was just a complement of interests. So there is not really any love here it is just a deal being made.

Dr. Epstein: Fair enough I get you.

Abdelrahman: Thank you for coming on with us.

Dr. Epstein: Thank you for having me.

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“Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world — a little over 1 percent per year — and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love. In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages. In the former — and this is consistent with the findings of all relevant Western studies — love started out strong and weakened over time, but in the arranged marriages the opposite occurred. Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong.”

Tayamika: Good day Dr Epstein, thank you for joining me for this conversation.

Epstein: Hello Tayamika, thanks for having me.

Tayamika: I was reading your article, ‘How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives’. I’ll admit, it did not take the course I thought it would. I was intrigued that the conversation flowed from unpacking the influence Disney has had on Western perspectives of love, to the romanticisation of arranged marriages in India.

Epstein: My intention was not to romanticise arranged marriages but rather to explore what Westerners could learn from a love model that is unlike their own.

Tayamika: Right, and it seems your approach to understanding the contextual differences in levels of love has been through research and statistics. You speak of how India has one of the lowest divorce rates in the world. What could be the reason behind this?

Epstein: The deliberate intentionality that couples in arranged marriages engage in to build their love.

Tayamika: Though that may be true, could we also attribute this low divorce rate to other factors like societal stigma? In Western contexts, divorce is incredibly common so there is reduced stigma towards it. But in India, could this low divorce rate be the cause of a vicious cycle where it’s not common for people to get divorced so people are less likely to get divorced?

Epstein: Yes, but given that divorce is legal there those who are not happy in their marriages have the liberty to leave.

Tayamika: Legality may not translate to practicality. But let’s move on. What is your primary mode of research to measure the levels of love in relationships?

Epstein: Survey and Interviewing.

Tayamika: As a researcher, you’ll acknowledge that correlation does not equal causation. There is a relationship between arranged marriages and the development of love, but is it accurate to claim that being in an arranged marriage increases the likelihood of developing love?

Epstein: No, but studies have shown that being in an arranged marriage increases the intentionality that couples engage in to develop love. My focus in the article was not to glorify the nature of arranged marriages but to draw attention to the intentionality that non-Western cultures engage in in their love which is not reflected in Western cultures that focus on futile aspects, i.e. happily ever after, and not the real work that goes into making love last.

Tayamika: Interesting. That wasn’t immediately clear in the way the text was written so I value having this opportunity to have this conversation with you.

Epstein: Glad I could clear some things up. Do you have any more questions?

Tayamika: Yes, let’s talk about…

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“Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained.”

Khalil: Good afternoon Dr. Epstein. Thank you for joining me here today. I just have a couple of questions that I wanted to ask you.

Dr. Epstein: Good afternoon Khalil. Thank you for having me here today. Please go ahead with the questions.

Khalil: Dr. Epstein, you wrote here that "Disney contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world by creating unrealistic expectations about relationships." Can you please explain how this specifically affects women?

Dr. Epstein: Of course. Disney's fairy tales often show perfect and effortless love stories. Women might expect their relationships to be just as magical, conflict free, and perfect as displayed in Disney movies and books, which does not align with reality.

Khalil: That sounds frustrating. Do you think that men are also affected by these portrayals?

Dr. Epstein: Men definitely get affected by these portrayals. One of the reasons is that men might feel like they always have to be the perfect prince charming, always strong and flawless. This can put a lot of pressure on both partners to live up to the impossible standards that have been set by Disney.

Khalil: It is very interesting how these stories can shape our views on relationships. What do you suggest people should do the avoid believing that relationships are as perfect as Disney movies and books.

Dr epstein: I suggest people be more aware, watching more realistic portrayals of relationships can help balance things out so that they realize that it is not as perfect as Disney movies. It can also be helpful realizing that these are just made up stories ad they do not equate to real life. Couples should be open together and talk about their expectations.

Dr. Epstein: And it is also important to remember that every relationships is unique. Something that works for one couple might not work for another couple.

Khalil: That is a great point. Sometimes it’s hard to separate fiction from reality, especially with so many idealized portrayals out there.

Dr Epstein: Exactly, and it is more important to focus on building your own relationship rather than comparing it to others.

Khalil; That is a great point. That will be it for today. Thank you for joining me, your perspective help me understand things better.

Dr Epstein: You are welcome. Thank you for having me here.

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"Disney’s impact was so great that his movies have virtually obliterated the original messages. Millions of parents now read their children sanitized books that are based on the movie versions, not the original cautionary tales. As my kids would say, how whack is that?"

Me: Good Afternoon Dr. Epstein, thank you for joining me today. I have some questions that I wanted to ask you.

Dr. Epstein: Good afternoon Dania, thank you for having me. Ask whatever you want.

Me: Based on your article you have mentioned that parents read to their children "sanitized books that are based on movie version" and not based on the original stories, arguing that it is wrong. However don't you think that it is better to tell children the fairy tale version rather than the horrifying stories behind them?

Dr. Epstein: I see your point; but sometimes that original stories contain more valuable lessons, even if they are more dark and horrifying.

Me: But don't you think that it is better for them to enjoy the happy endings rather than horrifying and scary ones?

Dr. Epstein: I understand what you are saying but if children have only seen bright and happy stories, we will be unintentionally shielding them from the actual complexity of life's challenges.

Me: I get what are you saying, but don't you think that parents can use a mix of both happy endings and deeper meanings?

Dr. Epstein: Absolutely, the story can contain a mixture of Disney magic as well as deeper meanings, and by that we could have successfully taught children more deeper lessons without scaring them.

Me: That makes a lot of sense, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Dr. Epstein: My pleasure, I hope parents will start considering the stories that they read to their kids more.

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“Disney’s impact was so great that his movies have virtually obliterated the original messages”.

Tara: Good Afternoon Dr. Epstein, how are you doing today?

Dr Epstein: Good Afternoon Tara, I’m certainly doing well, what brings you here today?

Tara: I came here to this meeting wanting to catch on, on a couple of questions from your engaging text “How Walt Disney Ruined Our Lives”.

Dr Epstein: Go ahead, i’m interested in what you’ve got to say.

Tara: How can we reclaim those original stories to provide a more realistic perspective on love and relationships?

Dr Epstein: Well i’m glad to hear that you’re interested in my text. It’s important that you should revisit those tales, emphasizing their complexities and the lessons they impart. We need to teach children that real relationships aren’t always perfect.

Tara: That’s a clearer point of view. To add on that, you’ve also noted that “our beliefs about relationships hobble us with expectations that are almost certain to be violated”, how can we change those certain beliefs to foster healthier predictions in romantic relationships?

Dr Epstein: Education and open chats about relationships are crucial. Encouraging critical thinking into a social media relationship can help individuals build more realistic expectations and predictions.

Tara: Thank you Dr Epstein. You’re perspective really helped balancing out the affects that Disney has caused on us.

Dr Epstein: You’re most welcome! It’s my pleasure to help my audience reach a wider view or range on this crucial topic.

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"Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained." - Robert Epstein

Me: Hello Mr. Epstein, I have read your article and I have a couple of questions and comments about it.

Robert Epstein: Hello, ask away

Me: In your article you were blaming Disney for the failure of many marriages, and in my perspective you ignored the many problems that marriages actually go through which cause them to fail, and blamed it all on stories used for entertainment.

Robert Epstein: Disney's stories had a much a greater effect and were not just stories for entertainment, they reflected on the standards that women and men have for each other and how relationships work.

Me: I think that we should reflect back on how did the writers get the inspiration for these stories that set a specific image for women? the writers got these societal values from society itself, its the stories that have been heard and seen for decades and were seen as a norm up until a few years ago.

Robert Epstein: But the generational trauma from the treatment of women has continued to decades and Disney stories are still apart of many cultures, nothing is stopping them from not believing in the past societal values

Me: This is where you're wrong, Disney newer movies have reflected a healthier relationship and representation of women. Unfortunately yes the old stories are still around, but because people fought to change these societal norms to forced Disney to do so too.

Robert Epstein: and so how do you conclude Disneys effects on relationships and women

Me: I conclude it with stating that societies norms and values caused Disney writers these fairytales and if anything they were better than reality of how a woman was being treated when the stories was written.

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"Real relationships don’t involve knights in shining armor, soul mates, gleaming carriages, castles or, above all, living happily ever after. But the Disneyized tales now engraved in our consciousness make us feel these things are real, even after years of counseling in which our therapists beg to differ."

Malika: good evening Dr. Epstein, Thank you for agreeing to joining me in this discussion.

Dr. epstein: Thank you for having me, please ask away!

Malika: Dr. Epstein, in one of your articles, you argue that Disney has shaped unrealistic views of love—knights in shining armor, soul mates, and happily ever after. But what’s wrong with dreaming of a love that feels magical? Isn’t it okay to believe in soul mates or hope for something extraordinary?

Dr. Epstein: Dreaming of something special in love isn’t the problem. The issue arises when those dreams turn into set in stone expectations.

Disney often presents love as instant and effortless, which can lead to disappointment when people realize that real relationships require work. Believing in a soulmate can also make people second-guess their relationships, expecting perfection that doesn’t exist.

Malika: But couldn’t a knight in shining armor be more symbolic? Maybe it represents a partner who emotionally supports and protects you, rather than someone who literally saves the day?

Dr. Epstein: That’s a great point. If we reinterpret these ideas, they can be healthy. A “knight” could be a supportive partner, and a “soul mate” could be someone with whom you build a deep connection over time. But the expectation of constant magic or perfection is unrealistic. Real love involves effort and growth.

Malika: So, love can still feel magical at times, right? Isn’t part of the beauty in those moments of connection? Can’t those dreamy moments coexist with the hard realities of life?

Dr. Epstein: Absolutely. Love can feel magical, but those moments often come from the work you put into the relationship. The danger is expecting that magic to happen constantly or effortlessly. Real relationships are about balancing those high points with the day-to-day work of being a couple.

Malika: So, in a sense, we don’t need to completely abandon the Disney dream of love. We just need to add a layer of reality. “Happily ever after” could be more about the ongoing journey than a perfect ending.

Dr. Epstein: Exactly. “Happily ever after” isn’t about perfection but about two people committed to growing together through life’s ups and downs. When we adjust our expectations, we can still experience magical moments—just within a realistic, grounded partnership.

Malika: Thank you, Dr. Epstein. That perspective really balances dreaming with building something real.

Dr. Epstein: You’re welcome. Dreaming is great, but the real magic comes from creating something meaningful together.

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"Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world — a little over 1 percent per year — and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love. In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages....Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong."

Me: Hello Dr. Epstein, I hope you're doing well! We recently read your article 'How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives' and I have a couple of things I want to talk about with you.

Dr. Epstein: Hello Melanie! I would be more than happy to discuss my article with you.

Me: Thank you. I understood your point on how arranged marriages can foster real love over time, and I agree with your points on how the West focuses too much on the first 'falling in love' rather than preserving their marriage after that. But you are overlooking an important issue. While you mentioned the low divorce rates and long-lasting love, you don't take into account how a large number of the girls in these arranged marriages are very young. They are emotionally and mentally immature and may have only fallen in love with their much older and more mature husbands because he is the only man they have interacted with. It is a sort of attachment that stems from emotional dependence and being naive. these girls may not even know what love or choice is. they are simply conditioned into thinking that this is love.

Dr. Epstein: You are right, that is a very valid concern. I admit i had only highlighted the positives of arranged marriages and didnt touch on why they happen.

Me: exactly, and another point is that these low divorce rates may largely be due to the fact that women in asian cultures are pressured into staying in abusive and unhealthy marriages. leaving is often not an option for these women culturally, despite it being 'legally' allowed. so just because they stay married, doesnt mean they are happy or satisfied.

Dr. Epstein: you are right, again. I should have considered he bigger picture. Thank you for your reflections, i will certainly keep these in mind for my next conferences and writings.

Me: Thank you for taking the time to talk to me!

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"Disney, you see, contributed to the failure of many marriages around the world. He did this by glamorizing and magnifying fairy tales that cause us — women, especially — to have unrealistic expectations about how successful romantic relationships are made and maintained."

Me: Hi, Robert Epstein! Thank you for joining me to talk about your article: "How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives".

Dr. Epstein: Thank you for having me!

Me: While reading your article, I wondered why you made Disney sound like it is to blame for every divorce that has ever happened. Why is that?

Dr. Epstein: I believe that Disney placed and continues to place unrealistic and high standards for love: a prince searching through kingdoms to find a girl, building libraries for her, fighting for her etc...

Me: Don't you think jumping straight to blaming Disney about divorce is too hasty?

Dr. Epstein: I understand where you're coming from; blaming Disney for every divorce might seem extreme, but my argument is about the impact of these narratives, especially towards women. They create standards for what love should look like, which can lead to disappointment when reality doesn’t match those fairy tale expectations.

Me: But isn't it also about circumstances? Can't we hold individuals accountable for their relationships rather than blaming it all on Disney?

Dr. Epstein: I agree that couples that get divorced have bigger problems, but Disney is an underlying factor. As girls grow up watching Disney movies, they begin to have thoughts and ideas of what love looks like which affects their future relationships as they believe that love looks like a Disney movie whereas in reality, that isn't the case.

Me: In your opinion, what does love look like?

Dr. Epstein: Love is not all rainbows and happy endings like Disney depicts it to be. There is heartbreak, arguments, disagreements, and the list goes on; by only showing happy endings and that everything can work out in the end doesn't prepare young girls for the actual reality of love. No relationship is perfect, and any perfect relationship isn't real, which is what Disney movies are: not real.

Me: I see exactly where you're coming from, and you're right. I would have wished to see this perspective/point in your article because as I read it, I felt like you were being too harsh with blaming Disney for everything however you meant it was an underlying factor that actually plays a big role in setting expectations in relationships.

Dr. Epstein: Exactly! Thank you for your critique as that will help me when writing my next article.

Me: Of course. Thank you for joining me today!

Dr. Epstein: It was my pleasure!

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“Even though divorce is legal in India, the country has long had one of the lowest divorce rates in the world - a little over 1 percent per year - and studies confirm that arranged marriages generally have better outcomes than marriages set in motion by love. In one 1980s study in India, the love experienced in love marriages was compared with the love experienced in arranged marriages. In the former - and this is consistent with the findings of all relevant Western studies - love started out strong and weakened over time, but in the arranged marriages the opposite occurred. Five years in, the love in the arranged marriages equaled that in the love marriages. Ten years in, it was twice as strong.”

KYRIAKOS: Good afternoon, Dr. Epstein.

DR. EPSTEIN: Good afternoon.

KYRIAKOS: I have a few questions regarding your piece of writing, titled ‘How Walt Disney Ruined Our Love Lives’.

DR. EPSTEIN: Please ask away.

KYRIAKOS: In the first sentence of the selected text, I noticed some holes in your logic and reasoning. One of the reasons as to why divorces in arranged marriages are more uncommon compared to love marriages is due to external factors. Typically, in cultures where arranged marriages are prominent, families tend to be immensely close to one another and as a result, if someone does not feel right in their marriage, their first instinct is to speak to their family about it: the same family who is responsible for the marriage in the first place. In addition, other factors include that maybe one person in the relationship wants a divorce but the other one doesn’t. Although this does not necessarily mean that a divorce is not possible, it does mean that it is a much more complicated procedure to navigate. Furthermore, a divorce is not the only sign of a bad marriage. There are couples who are still married in which abuse occurs: sexual, physical or mental. Can I ask you, therefore, if abuse of any kind is present in a marriage, is this marriage successful?

DR. EPSTEIN: I see your point. Of course it wouldn’t be a justified assumption to believe that such a marriage is successful.

KYRIAKOS: Moving on to the second sentence, you mention that you used “one 1980s study in India” in order to draw conclusions from. Although mentioning a study with results that align with your argument does improve your argument’s validity, it doesn't in this case, as the study that you used is not named. Not only is it not named, but there are no specifics provided either - no known number of participants, no known gender of participants, not even an accurate year. From the minor details that you provide us with, it is apparent that the result of the study lacks generalisability as it was done in India, where presumably exclusively Indians were used as participants. It is also fair to assume that the study contained ethnocentric biases due to the aforementioned reasons. Nonetheless, you mention that the results of the study in India have concurrent validity with ‘all relevant Western studies’. This helps with your point, but please do mention the names of the studies that you used.

DR. EPSTEIN: Understood.

KYRIAKOS: In the last sentence, you fail to mention the names of any studies you used again, but this is not something I will focus on as there are more pressing issues with your conclusions. Before I state my final problem with the sentence, may I ask you one thing?

DR. EPSTEIN: Of course.

KYRIAKOS: Would you agree that ‘Love’ is a feeling?

DR. EPSTEIN: Yes.

KYRIAKOS: Feelings are subjective, correct?

DR. EPSTEIN: That would be correct.

KYRIAKOS: Okay. According to the National Library of Medicine, one of the most accurate measurements of love is the Sternberg Triangular Love Scale (STLS). This scale only has an accuracy score of 0.7, deeming it ‘acceptable’. So, while we can make comparisons using this scale, we cannot be adamant that the results are precise enough to draw any accurate conclusions from. As feelings are subjective, they all suffer from individual differences as some people are more sensitive to their emotions than others. Would you agree?

DR. EPSTEIN: Yes, I do agree.

KYRIAKOS: Thank you very much for your time.

DR. EPSTEIN: Thank you. I appreciate your observations.

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“I am exaggerating the impact Walt Disney has had on our love lives, of course. He simply played an important part in a larger cultural shift. Today, we are bombarded daily by unrealistic messages about love and marriage — messages that make us think about leaving a relationship the moment our romantic expectations are dashed. As a result, nearly half of first marriages in the U.S. end in divorce. So do two-thirds of second marriages and three-quarters of third marriages.

Can anything be done? Or are we doomed, like Ariel, to be so miserable that we slowly dissolve into sea foam?”

Andrea: So, Dr. Epstein, I read your article titled “How Walt Disney Ruined our Love Lives.”

Dr. Epstein: What did you think about it?

Andrea: I liked the content of it a lot, but there was a paragraph that caught my attention above the others.

Dr. Epstein: Oh, really? May I know which one it was?

Andrea: Of course, it is the one where you acknowledge on how through the earlier paragraphs you have exaggerated about Disney’s impact in our love lives and on how Disney made a tremendous shift culturally on how we think about love and marriage.

Dr. Epstein: Ah! Yes. I do recall the paragraph.

Andrea: I liked how you related divorce on the daily “attacks” we experience through social media, of how love lives and relationships should be, and how you support your claim with the statistics you provided.

Dr. Epstein: That is good. I am happy the statistics helped you understand my claim.

Andrea: Yes. When I was reading it, it made me think of alternatives to the issue, on the impact it has in our real-life relationships. I kept on reading and saw your suggestion of applying “arranged marriages” to the western culture. After a while thinking, I concluded that not only the western culture but worldwide, having an arranged marriage may not solve all the issues having a relationship may convey. We need that people understand that time goes by. That nobody is the same person they were last year, or even last week. That change is normal, and that timelessness does not exist. That if you are willing to spend the rest of your life with someone there are factors that you need to take into consideration, as absurd as they can be. In an arranged marriage you cannot know how someone is after you married them. They do not have a “get to know me” phase. In my opinion, it is absurd to think that just because my family members choose my partner, everything will be like a “Happy Ever After.” It is like a different classification of “Fairy Tale.”

Dr. Epstein: Point taken. I had not thought of it like that.

Andrea: Thank you, Dr. Epstein, for your time and the responses you gave to my questions. Let us hope people have more open conversations about what love and marriage really involve.

Dr. Epstein: Let us just hope.

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Choose a text fragment, type it here, and create a short dialogue with Robert Epstein about your chosen selection. The dialogue can address any reflection/reaction you noted in your annotation. Feel free to attach any media you deem appropriate to your post. Note that you can like or comment on each others' posts. Make sure your name appears in your post. Let's go!